Raw 21/09/2015 Spoilers including NOC results

Lord TSC · 22-09-2015 7:33pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

So what did Cesaro do this time to annoy the higher ups, since it did seem like he was getting a push?

Was he getting pushed though? In ring wise, he was awesome, but from a booking and story point of view, he was losing to Cena and then losing to KO....

Fair play to him, he managed to get himself over despite the losses, but I don't think WWE ever intended for a "push" to ever actually come to fruition...

Omackeral · 23-09-2015 1:18am

Professional Griefer wrote: »

Xavier playing Rusevs theme is one of my favorite moments of this year

Shades of E&C on the kazoos.

Stereomaniac · 23-09-2015 1:56am

I'd love to see them interact with their various instruments. That was a missed opportunity.

Chain Smoker · 23-09-2015 3:44am

DM_7 wrote: »

The doubt and intrigue about if he can win should be on the babyface side.

That's never how the McMahon's booked. It made a lot more sense in the regional days where they had an endless supply of monster heels to bring in and feed to the top face but the current system requires heels to be champion for extended patches so the heel side of things can recover while the feuds for the heel champ can be exhausted.

CastorTroy · 24-09-2015 1:59pm

Maybe I missed it but did Paige at any time mention one of the main issues with the Divas division which has been pointed out a lot lately during this Revolution? Did she mention the fact they need to get rid of the diva term and belt? Or was that a case of not wanting to shoot themselves in the foot more than they have to?

DM_7 · 24-09-2015 7:47pm

Chain Smoker wrote: »

That's never how the McMahon's booked. It made a lot more sense in the regional days where they had an endless supply of monster heels to bring in and feed to the top face but the current system requires heels to be champion for extended patches so the heel side of things can recover while the feuds for the heel champ can be exhausted.

At this stage of his reign Rollins should be a proven Champion, one who started of surviving but as he goes he increases in confidence his abilities shine through. That is why I say the doubt should be on the challenger side now, so when he does lose it the guy who wins is an instant big deal.

At the moment, the way he was booked, his loss will mean nothing. The guy who wins will just be doing what is expected.

Stereomaniac · 25-09-2015 2:00am

I don't think so. CM Punk was a chicken**** heel for the last few months of his title reign a couple of years ago, having actually regressed from the time period that he won the belt prior to turning back heel. When Seth Rollins loses the title finally, it will be exciting of course.

Rjd2 · 25-09-2015 2:12am

DM_7 wrote: »

At this stage of his reign Rollins should be a proven Champion, one who started of surviving but as he goes he increases in confidence his abilities shine through. That is why I say the doubt should be on the challenger side now, so when he does lose it the guy who wins is an instant big deal.

At the moment, the way he was booked, his loss will mean nothing. The guy who wins will just be doing what is expected.

Exactly. The guy is booked like an absolute dork and no wonder ratings are in the toilet when the main man is booked as such a flukey champion.

Hopefully her beats the absolutely useless Kane clean next PPV at least.

A Primal Nut · 25-09-2015 11:33am

CastorTroy wrote: »

Maybe I missed it but did Paige at any time mention one of the main issues with the Divas division which has been pointed out a lot lately during this Revolution? Did she mention the fact they need to get rid of the diva term and belt? Or was that a case of not wanting to shoot themselves in the foot more than they have to?

No, she didn't...looks like they have no plans to change the name unfortunately.

beakerjoe · 25-09-2015 11:37am

A Primal Nut wrote: »

No, she didn't...looks like they have no plans to change the name unfortunately.

WWE think of Diva as a Strong Woman, not the stroppy bitchy way we think of the name.

Stereomaniac · 25-09-2015 11:41am

When I hear the word Diva, it conjures up images of Mariah Carey refusing to walk down stairs.

grames_bond · 25-09-2015 11:48am

Stereomaniac wrote: »

When I hear the word Diva, it conjures up images of Mariah Carey refusing to walk down stairs.

and judging by the latest installment of table for three - it does the same for Ivory!

beakerjoe · 25-09-2015 11:53am

grames_bond wrote: »

and judging by the latest installment of table for three - it does the same for Ivory!

Its all down to branding, WWE want to brand everything. Wrestlers are now Superstars and Divas and I dont see it changing anytime soon.

DM_7 · 25-09-2015 11:58am

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I don't think so. CM Punk was a chicken**** heel for the last few months of his title reign a couple of years ago, having actually regressed from the time period that he won the belt prior to turning back heel. When Seth Rollins loses the title finally, it will be exciting of course.

Punk had a poorly booked reign as well. All he got out or it was something to brag about as it went on so long. He didn't look credible or like the stand out performer as champion.

As face he feuded down the card in b level spots against Ziggler, Bryan (With AJ involved in a love triangle), Kane, Jericho, Big Johnny.

As heel he retained his title thanks to interference from Big Show, a dodgy Ref oh and the Shield.

He was booked stronger during matches in the few weeks before facing Taker than he was as champion.

The guy Rock beat for the title could have been anyone and it would be as memorable.

Stereomaniac · 25-09-2015 12:04pm

My point is that he's a heel champion, that's what the model for someone in that position in WWE is. Who has been a dominant heel champion aside from Brock Lesnar and Triple H? Dave Meltzer was on with Jim Ross the week after WrestleMania saying WWE now have a beatable champion which (and I'm paraphrasing here) adds intrigue to his reign. Heels just get booked that way in WWE. I didn't think it would be anything different to what it has been so far. Each challenger he's had has been made to look close to winning.

beakerjoe · 25-09-2015 12:16pm

Stereomaniac wrote: »

My point is that he's a heel champion, that's what the model for someone in that position in WWE is. Who has been a dominant heel champion aside from Brock Lesnar and Triple H? Dave Meltzer was on with Jim Ross the week after WrestleMania saying WWE now have a beatable champion which (and I'm paraphrasing here) adds intrigue to his reign. Heels just get booked that way in WWE. I didn't think it would be anything different to what it has been so far. Each challenger he's had has been made to look close to winning.

But its Seths way of winning that annoys me, he doesnt really play dirty, vicious or break the rules, he usually gets the win after losing for weeks before a big match and then through interference and not his own dastardly ways.

Id like to see him win via a cheat to win, like a brass knucks or a feet on teh ropes style victory. Makes him look smart and cunning, rather than weak when someone interferes on his behalf.

DM_7 · 25-09-2015 12:40pm

Stereomaniac wrote: »

My point is that he's a heel champion, that's what the model for someone in that position in WWE is. Who has been a dominant heel champion aside from Brock Lesnar and Triple H? Dave Meltzer was on with Jim Ross the week after WrestleMania saying WWE now have a beatable champion which (and I'm paraphrasing here) adds intrigue to his reign. Heels just get booked that way in WWE. I didn't think it would be anything different to what it has been so far. Each challenger he's had has been made to look close to winning.

Brock was dominant as it suited his established persona.

Rollins shouldn't be dominant but he should still be credible. He relies on fluke wins and interference. When he has a title match no suspense exists as you are just waiting for a run in or fluke.

That is okay at the start but at this stage he should be growing, improving, using his physical and or mental attributes to win. The need for growth exists most in a a first time, young champion. A guy like Brock or Cena can be booked in a certain way from Day 1 right through a reign as they are established.

Rollins in his run could be replaced by anyone from Cesaro to Miz.

beakerjoe · 25-09-2015 12:42pm

DM_7 wrote: »

Brock was dominant as it suited his established persona.

Rollins shouldn't be dominant but he should still be credible. He relies on fluke wins and interference. When he has a title match no suspense exists as you are just waiting for a run in or fluke.

That is okay at the start but at this stage he should be growing, improving, using his physical and or mental attributes to win. The need for growth exists most in a a first time, young champion. A guy like Brock or Cena can be booked in a certain way from Day 1 right through a reign as they are established.

Rollins in his run could be replaced by anyone from Cesaro to Miz.

Competely agree with the bold there, its repetitive and the lack of progression is hurting Seth.

The White Feather · 25-09-2015 7:17pm

Seth is a cowardly heel. He is doing it perfectly.

The Paige "pipebomb" was a good idea but wrong person. I was full sure that when Flair didnt hold the ropes open for Becky that she would turn heel. I gave WWE too much credit when it seems now it was just accidental!!

That would have made better sense. She would say thats the last straw and Charlotte has been gifted everthing and then go off on the rest of the divas.When you see Paige with all the rest on Total Divas partying in Mexico, it doesnt make sense that she hates them all.Becky would have instant heel heat and its believable as she would be a jealous friend

It is silly that Charlotte and Becky didnt have a mic while Paige did this. No one stands there while being berated. 3 in ring but only one mic? Easy fixed by her saying shut up to them if they have mics in hand.

Kane storyline isnt bad but WTF is he doing in the title picture? Its a comedic angle that should be further down the card

Cesaro has been demoted from his demotion it seems. He should be getting mic time and in major segments. Remember him as the King of Swing and doing the old airplane spin? It seems like 10 years ago

Chain Smoker · 26-09-2015 8:56am

The White Feather wrote: »

Seth is a cowardly heel. He is doing it perfectly.

He's doing fine, has came on leaps and bounds throughout his time in the WWE, but what he's being gave to work with is absolutely terrible. A cowardly heel that has any kind of value is one who either continually outsmarts the referee and/or the opponent enough to win, one who has unscrupulous ways in which they have earned their position. They shouldn't be constantly getting laid out and needing to depend on some contrived set of circumstances to retain the title.
Based on their track record, I imagine there's no way they're going to let him convincingly beat Kane either. I wouldn't be that surprised if they decide Kane has earned a final title reign and hope it'll pop ratings for the next night's raw tbh.

If Ric Flair (I'd say he surely counts as one of the best cowardly heel there's been?) had been booked the way Rollins has been, he'd've never drawn a dime and he certainly wouldn't have been able to give anyone the rub.

The White Feather wrote: »

The Paige "pipebomb" was a good idea but wrong person. I was full sure that when Flair didnt hold the ropes open for Becky that she would turn heel. I gave WWE too much credit when it seems now it was just accidental!!

That would have made better sense. She would say thats the last straw and Charlotte has been gifted everthing and then go off on the rest of the divas.When you see Paige with all the rest on Total Divas partying in Mexico, it doesnt make sense that she hates them all.Becky would have instant heel heat and its believable as she would be a jealous friend

Man, Becky Lynch's mic skills at the moment are nowhere near good enough to carry a heel turn. It would've just sunk the whole thing.

Raw 21/09/2015 *Spoilers including NOC results*

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Raw 21/09/2015 Spoilers including NOC results