Royal Canal Tow Path

daymobrew · 22-06-2014 11:45pm

Cycled 12th Lock to Ashtown and back with the family this evening. Nice surface.

Close to Navan Road Parkway station are two concrete blocks blocking the entire path - what the hell? And there was a car parked on the Ashtown side.
I assume that the bollards are temporary (though why there were not removed is beyond me).
Photo:

There is the beginnings of access to the Navan Road Parkway station.
Photo:

daymobrew · 14-07-2014 4:17pm

The bollards at Navan Road Parkway were in place to stop vehicles driving on the towpath at night time, something that was happening at night time.

A gate is being installed at the moment and bollards will removed shortly. The gate is to stop motorbikes. It will impact cyclists too and might be awkward to get through if you have panniers.

monument · 14-07-2014 4:49pm

daymobrew wrote: »

The bollards at Navan Road Parkway were in place to stop vehicles driving on the towpath at night time, something that was happening at night time.

A gate is being installed at the moment and bollards will removed shortly. The gate is to stop motorbikes. It will impact cyclists too and might be awkward to get through if you have panniers.

My understanding is that it will fully block a number of types of bikes (ie cargo bikes, trikes, etc) and trailers.... Is this not the case?

Gaspode · 14-07-2014 5:40pm

Gate is in place near the Ashtown end. Bikes getting through OK.

monument · 14-07-2014 6:17pm

Gaspode wrote: »

Gate is in place near the Ashtown end. Bikes getting through OK.

In this context...

daymobrew wrote: »

...The gate is to stop motorbikes. It will impact cyclists too and might be awkward to get through if you have panniers.

...and I've seen elsewhere that somebody has had to lift a bike with panniers over the barrier.

What does ok mean?

Can larger bikes and bikes with panniers fit by the gates or not?

daymobrew · 14-07-2014 10:14pm

monument wrote: »

Can larger bikes and bikes with panniers fit by the gates or not?

Here is a photo from the Grand Canal greenway where it is a tight fit for a narrow road bike.

ongarite · 14-07-2014 10:25pm

daymobrew wrote: »

Here is a photo from the Grand Canal greenway where it is a tight fit for a narrow road bike.

Fun fact of the day.
They checked the new gate system on my bike 2 weeks ago at the gate to installed beside the 12th lock.
Its a tight fit alright.

monument · 14-07-2014 10:44pm

daymobrew wrote: »

Here is a photo from the Grand Canal greenway where it is a tight fit for a narrow road bike.

And are the Royal Canal Gates narrower or the same or what?

daymobrew · 15-07-2014 7:31am

monument wrote: »

And are the Royal Canal Gates narrower or the same or what?

In my email conversation with Naomi Rooney of FCC it sounds like they can be wider but the narrow (aka 'the same' as Grand Canal) will in place for a month to eradicate the motorcycle problem and then the wider setting enabled.

In my submission on the greenway I asked that restrictions be removed initially as a trial, with CCTV used to monitor violations. It's annoying to put in inconveniences to solve a problem that may not exist. If there is a problem, then put them in, though I would rather the CCTV be used i.e. report the violators to the Gardai.

monument · 15-07-2014 2:27pm

daymobrew wrote: »

In my email conversation with Naomi Rooney of FCC it sounds like they can be wider but the narrow (aka 'the same' as Grand Canal) will in place for a month to eradicate the motorcycle problem and then the wider setting enabled.

In my submission on the greenway I asked that restrictions be removed initially as a trial, with CCTV used to monitor violations. It's annoying to put in inconveniences to solve a problem that may not exist. If there is a problem, then put them in, though I would rather the CCTV be used i.e. report the violators to the Gardai.

Thanks.

I'm trying to get details from officials about the sizes of gates and what exactly can get past or not and it's proving hard.

muckwarrior · 15-07-2014 4:37pm

There are already several gates between Ashtown and Phibsborough that you need to lift your bike over, so it's not like one extra one will impact most people cycling along the canal.

monument · 15-07-2014 4:47pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

There are already several gates between Ashtown and Phibsborough that you need to lift your bike over, so it's not like one extra one will impact most people cycling along the canal.

It's only one extra?

Those other sections have yet to be upgraded as part of the Galway-Dublin cycle route and GDA cycle network.

With a small section on road the canal offers a link short distance and to the Phoenix Park etc.

beauf · 20-07-2014 12:52pm

Is it possible to cycle into Dublin city from d.15 along the canal.

Is it too slow or inconvenient as a commuter route?

strangel00p · 20-07-2014 5:12pm

beauf wrote: »

Is it possible to cycle into Dublin city from d.15 along the canal.

Is it too slow or inconvenient as a commuter route?

I do it every twice a day from castleknock to the city. The surface varies in places but it's grand if you have a hybrid or mountain bike. There are a couple of gates you need to dismount at but that's about it. It's a lovely scenic route with no traffic so I much prefer it to the alternative routes.

beauf · 20-07-2014 6:08pm

Cheers how far can you go. Can you reach the ifsc/docklands and how long does it t take?

strangel00p · 20-07-2014 6:25pm

beauf wrote: »

Cheers how far can you go. Can you reach the ifsc/docklands and how long does it t take?

No problem. I work beside the IFSC so I usually leave the canal at the Croke Park/Northstrand lock(this lock is closed for repair a the moment but scheduled to be reopened next month).

Journey usually takes about 35 - 40 minutes from the Castleknock tow gate, but I'm a very slow cyclist and take my time.

Well worth considering if you're tired of cycling through the phoenix park and running the gauntlet along the quays.

beauf · 20-07-2014 6:53pm

Your times seem similar to mine over a similar time. Exactly that I'd like to try a different route. Not mad about the South quays home either. I'll give it a try in a few days. Thanks for the info. No hassle on that route?

strangel00p · 20-07-2014 7:30pm

beauf wrote: »

Your times seem similar to mine over a similar time. Exactly that I'd like to try a different route. Not mad about the South quays home either. I'll give it a try in a few days. Thanks for the info. No hassle on that route?

Never had a problem with anyone along the canal, get yourself some good tyres - lots of broken glass.

beauf · 20-07-2014 9:34pm

Thanks for the tip. I have specialized armadillos, which I've only had a handful of punctures over the years.

TheBandicoot · 21-07-2014 2:38pm

Isn't there a huge subsidence of the path along part of the canal between Drumcondra and Croke Park that would prevent safe cycling? Found this photo online : https://twitter.com/johnfurlong2/status/367584345319411714

Also, is access actually planned for Navan Road Parkway station? The area in the photograph was used to hold spoil during construction of the cycleway, that cold be why it looks like it has access?

strangel00p · 21-07-2014 6:54pm

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Isn't there a huge subsidence of the path along part of the canal between Drumcondra and Croke Park that would prevent safe cycling? Found this photo online : https://twitter.com/johnfurlong2/status/367584345319411714

apparently scheduled for reopening next month.

L1011 · 22-07-2014 6:39pm

Haven't even begun repair work to it if that's the plan. Its closed off at both ends so there's no access to make it unsafe to cycle along.

AlanG · 28-07-2014 10:40am

I often cycle to O’Connell bridge area from Castleknock station. I come off the canal at Drumcondra and then go via Mountjoy Sq. and Gardiner street. It’ s about 1km longer than taking the Park and Quays and my speed seems to be about 4-5 kmph slower in general which I’m putting down to the surface difference and the locations of the downhills (via canal the drop is mostly o Gardiner St which has lots of lights slowing things down, in park the decline ins on the quick main road).
Canal Cycle is very nice and I have had no problems with people on it, would definitely recommend it for a morning commute as there are very few people around, and you avoid the dangers of the Quays. The gates are a bit of a pain and they do slow things down but if you are interested in spend then the park is the quicker route.

AlanG · 28-07-2014 10:42am

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Also, is access actually planned for Navan Road Parkway station? The area in the photograph was used to hold spoil during construction of the cycleway, that cold be why it looks like it has access?

I don't think there is any plan for access - it would be a security concern and there is no reason for it as no homes would be serviced by a gate here. All homes are closer to Ashtown or Castleknock stations at this point.

monument · 28-07-2014 10:48am

The strange thing is that if these were no gates, the surface was ok and the city centre crossing points were improved the canal could be faster from D15 to the Docklands than going via the park and quays.

I've measured it before and the canal route is slightly shorter.

And clearly the canal would be the quicker way to DCU and other northside locations.

And when I say quicker, I mean for the average person on a bicycle going average speeds, not somebody going as fast as they can on a racer etc.

LoonyLovegood · 28-07-2014 2:16pm

Would the canal be safe for a woman cycling alone though? I'm doing a few days in Ashtown, and it'd be a hell of a lot easier to cycle than try deal with trains.

retalivity · 28-07-2014 9:15pm

I know a few girls who cycle in and out to the city centre everyday from ashtown...the only concerns I have heard from them is if they are late coming back or its winter/darker they would go by the road as its better lit than the canal path, and less chance of late-evening scobes

beauf · 28-07-2014 10:43pm

Out of curiosity on a darker evening, what would your alternative route be. I'm going to try the canal for a change over the next week or so. I'd like an alternative to the canal and the south quays for the journey home.

daymobrew · 29-07-2014 7:31am

AlanG wrote: »

I don't think there is any plan for access - it would be a security concern and there is no reason for it as no homes would be serviced by a gate here. All homes are closer to Ashtown or Castleknock stations at this point.

In my submission about the greenway I suggested such a path for those that simply wanted to cut their walk or cycle short.

Navan Road Parkway is rarely attended by staff so revenue security should not be a concern.

beauf wrote: »

Out of curiosity on a darker evening, what would your alternative route be.

Via Phibsborough/Navan Road.
Navan Road after Phibsborough Church is okay, improving when you get up to McDonald's, though there is a climb to there.

There are a few ways to get to Doyle's Corner in Phibsborough, depending on where you are coming from and which roads you are comfortable on.
NCR past Mountjoy is okay despite the climb.
Constitution Hill is okay too (and you can turn left after the fire station to zig/zag to bypass Doyle's Corner to get to Navan Road.

AlanG · 29-07-2014 1:41pm

CTYIgirl wrote: »

Would the canal be safe for a woman cycling alone though? I'm doing a few days in Ashtown, and it'd be a hell of a lot easier to cycle than try deal with trains.

During the bright mornings there would be no problem. Lots of dog walkers and cyclists around, and its too early for teenagers to be hanging around. Likewise at evening commute time there are a lot of people about.
Personally I would not cycle the canal between broom bridge and phibsborough on a dark evening as its quite isolated.

AlanG · 29-07-2014 1:50pm

beauf wrote: »

Out of curiosity on a darker evening, what would your alternative route be. I'm going to try the canal for a change over the next week or so. I'd like an alternative to the canal and the south quays for the journey home.

There are lots of routes through Phibsborough but if you want to avoid the new cabra road and doyles corner you are going to add time. Normally if going to that part of the city I would stick to the cabra road and go through doyles corner and then either around the front of back of the matter.
From Rathbourne, even in the dark, I would go along the canal to the ratoath road and then down through cabra past the church and Finbars GAA.

If you have a bit extra time you can take a spin along the filled in canal park in phibsborough and come out at the blessington st basin.

daymobrew · 30-07-2014 7:38am

AlanG wrote: »

Personally I would not cycle the canal between broom bridge and phibsborough on a dark evening as its quite isolated.

I used to cycle along the canal between Ashtown to Phibsborough. I expected hassle around Broombridge but never had *any*, never. And I wore lyrca - I was practically asking for hassle but never got any.

One time I was offered a drink by lads before they went to a Bohs game.
The only problem around that area were the protective male swans protecting their partner's nest on the bank right beside the narrow tow path. The swan would try to swipe me.

I haven't cycled it in 6 years so I don't know if things are better or worse.

AlanG · 31-07-2014 9:53am

daymobrew wrote: »

I used to cycle along the canal between Ashtown to Phibsborough. I expected hassle around Broombridge but never had *any*, never. And I wore lyrca - I was practically asking for hassle but never got any.

Just to clarify I have never had any hassle along here on a bike but i do know there has been a lot of trouble for train commuters at broom bridge station with gangs of teenagers. The canal here is very isolated and there are very few walkers or cyclists on it after dark so I would certainly not recommend it for a woman cycling on her own after dark when there are pretty simple alternative routes.

Jebus Diced · 01-08-2014 12:21am

Im looking forward to cycling along this route, Anybody know if/when the section between the 12th lock and Porterstown is being done?

daymobrew · 01-08-2014 6:24am

Jebus Diced wrote: »

Im looking forward to cycling along this route, Anybody know if/when the section between the 12th lock and Porterstown is being done?

It will be a while because it is a challenging engineering project.

On Leo Varadkar's web site, in a post about the opening of the Ashtown/12th Lock section it says:

Feasibility study complete.Options for deep sinking section under further investigation. Then a preliminary design will commence.

beauf · 05-08-2014 9:22pm

strangel00p wrote: »

No problem. I work beside the IFSC so I usually leave the canal at the Croke Park/Northstrand lock(this lock is closed for repair a the moment but scheduled to be reopened next month).

Journey usually takes about 35 - 40 minutes from the Castleknock tow gate, but I'm a very slow cyclist and take my time.

Well worth considering if you're tired of cycling through the phoenix park and running the gauntlet along the quays.

I tried it at the weekend. From Coolmine to Castleknock isn't suitable for commuting. Really need a decent MTB for that. From Castleknock to Ashtown and then to the Ratoath is great. Its a bit desolate after that, but fine for cycling. I went as far as Broombridge and ran out of time, so had to head back.

For a commuter route there's probably too many gates. I did notice some people struggling with larger bikes. I have a medium sized old MTB and it fit fine. I had one pannier and could slip through some of the narrow gates, had no problem with the kissing gates. It was just slow. Especially when you get a few bikes all arriving at the same time I can understand why they are there though.

I might try the full route this week. Its a bit indirect for me vs the park/quays, but its nice to have an alternative. I was out on a really sunny lunchtime and there was a lot of walkers and a good few cyclists, at least till the ratoath road.

daymobrew · 06-08-2014 7:05am

beauf wrote: »

For a commuter route there's probably too many gates.
....
Especially when you get a few bikes all arriving at the same time I can understand why they are there though.

Why are they there?
Is it a perceived problem that may not exist or is there an actual problem?
What would happen if there were no gates? (Isn't that what the CCTV is for?)

monument · 06-08-2014 7:51am

daymobrew wrote: »

Why are they there?
Is it a perceived problem that may not exist or is there an actual problem?
What would happen if there were no gates? (Isn't that what the CCTV is for?)

To try to stop some teenagers using scramblers on the towpath.

It's a minor but a real issue and one which is not stopped by the gates (I've seen them inside the gates a few times).

beauf · 06-08-2014 8:17am

I don't think cctv is a golden bullet either.

daymobrew · 07-08-2014 7:30am

monument wrote: »

To try to stop some teenagers using scramblers on the towpath.

It's a minor but a real issue and one which is not stopped by the gates (I've seen them inside the gates a few times).

beauf wrote: »

I don't think cctv is a golden bullet either.

These are the answers I expected. If the gates and CCTV are ineffective I think that the gates should be removed. I really hate ineffective things that punish the innocent.

franer1970 · 07-08-2014 8:00am

The gates on the Grand Canal at Killeen Road and Park West were forced open earlier this summer and it was open season the towpath until they were repaired - dirt / quad bikes, sulkies, cars, everything.
CCTV does nothing I'll agree but the gates are essential.

beauf · 07-08-2014 8:36am

daymobrew wrote: »

These are the answers I expected. If the gates and CCTV are ineffective I think that the gates should be removed. I really hate ineffective things that punish the innocent.

No one said gates were ineffective. I would expect I'd there were none bikers would use it as a rat run for commuting. And plagued with yobs.

CCTV in itself isn't a deterrent without enforcement. But it might deter some messing.

You climb mountains in small steps.

monument · 07-08-2014 9:04am

beauf wrote: »

No one said gates were ineffective. I would expect I'd there were none bikers would use it as a rat run for commuting. And plagued with yobs.

CCTV in itself isn't a deterrent without enforcement. But it might deter some messing.

You climb mountains in small steps.

I have said the gates are ineffective based on experience and feedback from others. I've meet loads of horses on the Grand Canal and a fair share of scrambles on the Royal, all inside gates.

An issue I've also seen and heard of is what you call "yobs" hanging around or close to the gates causing personal security issues or at lease increasing feel of lack of safety.

On the other hand, if there were no gates there would be more legitimate users on all sorts of bikes, including ones which fit in the gates but people are not bothered using the route because of the gates. This isn't a theory -- people have said on threads that they avoid the Grand Canal because of the gates even with the changes made.

beauf · 07-08-2014 10:41am

Ok I stand corrected. Any route I take that cycle only, or a pedestrian gate, like the park, you get bikers using it constantly. I don't mind where they are just commuting and considerate of other users. But I would I have assume it would be plagued with more concentrated anti social behaviour depending on the location.

Godge · 07-08-2014 12:06pm

monument wrote: »

To try to stop some teenagers using scramblers on the towpath.

It's a minor but a real issue and one which is not stopped by the gates (I've seen them inside the gates a few times).

With gates there is a minor issue?

franer1970 wrote: »

The gates on the Grand Canal at Killeen Road and Park West were forced open earlier this summer and it was open season the towpath until they were repaired - dirt / quad bikes, sulkies, cars, everything.
CCTV does nothing I'll agree but the gates are essential.

Without gates there is a major issue?

This suggests that gates contribute to solving the problem but are not a complete solution. This gives succour to those who argue against the gates because they can mention occasional incidents.

monument · 07-08-2014 1:30pm

beauf wrote: »

Ok I stand corrected. Any route I take that cycle only, or a pedestrian gate, like the park, you get bikers using it constantly. I don't mind where they are just commuting and considerate of other users. But I would I have assume it would be plagued with more concentrated anti social behaviour depending on the location.

Bikers?

Godge wrote: »

With gates there is a minor issue?

Without gates there is a major issue?

This suggests that gates contribute to solving the problem but are not a complete solution. This gives succour to those who argue against the gates because they can mention occasional incidents.

Err... sulkies and cars can be stopped by magical things called bollards.

Unplanned and uncontrolled access is not the same thing as planned access which does not block legitimate users and block stop the routes from getting anywhere near their potential for commuting, tourism and leisure.

beauf · 07-08-2014 2:25pm

monument wrote: »

Bikers?

Motorcyclists. Some of them tend to use pedestrian gates like whites gate in the park and bollard closed roads like Wellington road, as rat runs.

monument · 07-08-2014 5:32pm

beauf wrote: »

Motorcyclists. Some of them tend to use pedestrian gates like whites gate in the park and bollard closed roads like Wellington road, as rat runs.

Ok, compare towpaths, parks etc to this:

Parking cars on footpaths and cycling on footpaths is at crazy levels on many streets and housing estates across Dublin. So, the question is:

Is it acceptable to solve this problem by making it more difficult or, in many cases, impossible for ligitmate users to use footpaths?

If not, why are towpaths and parks so special?

beauf · 07-08-2014 6:05pm

They attract special people?

I dunno what you are looking for here. I assume you mean that if you attract enough people it will chase the scobes away.

Not sure that's worked that well at kaboombridge.

monument · 07-08-2014 7:42pm

beauf wrote: »

I dunno what you are looking for here...

You seem to be defending the gates, so I'm asking:

With footpaths generally, on streets and in estates, is it acceptable to solve the motorist/cyclist problem by making it more difficult or, in many cases, impossible for ligitmate users to use footpaths?

If not, why are towpaths and parks so special?

beauf wrote: »

...I assume you mean that if you attract enough people it will chase the scobes away.

Not sure that's worked that well at kaboombridge.

Broombridge? What exactly has been tried at Boombridge?

Royal Canal Tow Path

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