orange provocation

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 6:02pm

Here is how I can see it. Get ready for honest opinion from a man who have 2 university diplomas, ran company in Belfast for 4 years and in Poland for 2, have wide contacts across Europe and been in about 80% of EU countries, still make grammar mistakes.

What I have experienced in front of my house during your bonfire was weird. Watching my country flag burning during biggest national (NI) celebration of some stupid small battle...come on

By the way. Here is a Polish history in a nutshell. “Swallow” it please before you continue...
„Baginski Animowana Historia Polski 2010 HD”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_-_FFlKxeA
…do you think that we won’t “burst in flames” when anyone burn our flags all across the city?
WHO IS THE VOICE OF THIS IDEA? COME ON SAY IT !!! NOW IS THE TIME.
Once again I ask “IS IT OK TO BURN OUR OR IRISH OR ANY OTHER FLAGS?”
IF YES – We go for a walk
IF NO - …(fill the blank)
Is this OK m8? - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/twelfth/police-officers-injured-in-ardoyne-violence-after-orange-order-march-16184467.html?action=Popup&ino=239
Or maybe that is fine? - https://picasaweb.google.com/112642226848310840787/BritishAreBurningPolishAndIrishFlagsBelfastUnitedKingdom12July2012?authuser=0&feat=directlink
Shall I start to tell episodes of what “I - Polish fella” have experienced in Belfast within last 8 years? Don’t get me wrong, I still LOVE this place and a lot of people depend on my support here. But some incidents just blow my head off and I can’t believe my eyes.

I walk from house to house to fix things for people and my wife work in the hospital. Yes we seen enough….and I leave it like that.

What I seen on 11 / 12 July 2012 was some kind of burst of unexplainable force. As I said before I didn’t care for last 7 years, but now I feel your pain (south)…

Belfast is the place where I met people from places like Zimbabwe, All (and I mean it) EU countries, India, China and many many more. We live in the age where it takes me 10 hours to go “Home” to Poland. We have technology which will allow us to live in peace and mutual respect.
Meanwhile in Belfast some punks decided to …WHAT? WHAT WAS IT?
“KIDS STUFF”??? I don’t buy it.

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 6:05pm

Remember1690 wrote: »

Oh they burnt a Polish flag, cry me a river. You will get over it when you realise it is a piece of cloth. Perhaps you can leave the Irish people alone to sort the differences they have by themselves. They don't need a Polish person telling Irish citizens what to do.

Burning flags is wrong; whenever, however, PERIOD!
There should be no talking about it!
Face the facts - we all live here together

alastair · 14-07-2012 6:18pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Okay, be as willfully dense as you want, to stay in denial.
The Parade Commission was the British Governments answer to calls for the activities of the OO to be curtailed. The OO refuse to recognise that Commission despite not being able to do anything about their rulings.

and all this is proof that the OO was/is state-supported. Gotcha.

Happyman42 wrote: »

And tell us this, are you saying that all of those at Drumcree and Ardoyne flashpoints are the neanderthals of the OO order....are you sure about that?

That's exactly what I was saying. :rolleyes:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Head in the sand denial, again. I live on the border, the buses leaving this town and immediate hinterland, on the 12th numbered in the twenties, just a few years ago. No bus leaves the town today. And that trend can be seen all along the border where orangism was once at it's most entrenched and triumphalist, for obvious reasons.
Always remembering that membership never reflected the amount of people who turned up for a day out, the decline in membership is severe in some areas and steady in others, nowhere is there growth. That has nothing to do with the decline in religious participation. The OO has nothing to offer those who want to live in peace, and the border areas are at peace.

Maybe your local lodges aren't indicative of the overall numbers - Keady had a healthy attendance this year, and overall the numbers are still massive. Like it or not, it's still got years of go left in it. The future is going to be about managing the idiots, not hoping the marches wither away.

alastair · 14-07-2012 6:23pm

TommyPolack wrote: »

Once again I ask “IS IT OK TO BURN OUR OR IRISH OR ANY OTHER FLAGS?”
IF YES – We go for a walk
IF NO - …(fill the blank)

Fill the blank?

Obviously it's not okay to antagonise people by burning flags, but it ranks pretty low on most people's 'give a ****' register. Quite what you believe you can do to stop people who are intent on burning a flag is something of a mystery.

Galwayguy35 · 14-07-2012 6:37pm

alastair wrote: »

Fill the blank?

Obviously it's not okay to antagonise people by burning flags, but it ranks pretty low on most people's 'give a ****' register. Quite what you believe you can do to stop people who are intent on burning a flag is something of a mystery.

You might not give a toss about showing respect to the flag of your country but I think it would not be "pretty low" on what most Irish people find offensive to see it burned on a pile of pallets.
And I'm sure the Polish feel the same about their flag. I work with alot of Polish people and they are all very proud of their country and it's traditions.

alastair · 14-07-2012 6:42pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You might not give a toss about showing respect to the flag of your country but I think it would not be "pretty low" on what most Irish people find offensive to see it burned on a pile of pallets.
And I'm sure the Polish feel the same about their flag. I work with alot of Polish people and they are all very proud of their country and it's traditions.

I'll save my ire for actions that impinge on actual people, not fabric. How do you propose to stop people burning a flag if they want to? It's not illegal here or there (NI).

Galwayguy35 · 14-07-2012 6:45pm

alastair wrote: »

I'll save my ire for actions that impinge on actual people, not fabric. How do you propose to stop people burning a flag if they want to? It's not illegal here or there (NI).

No it's not illegal but that doesn't mean people have to like it or say nothing when they see it happening.

alastair · 14-07-2012 6:46pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No it's not illegal but that doesn't mean people have to like it or say nothing when they see it happening.

Who suggested that they either 'like it' or 'say nothing'?

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 6:47pm

Maybe start here
Reconciling Freedom of Expression and Flag Desecration:
a Comparative Study

http://www.hanselawreview.org/pdf3/Vol2No1Art10.pdf

alastair · 14-07-2012 6:51pm

TommyPolack wrote: »

Maybe start here
Reconciling Freedom of Expression and Flag Desecration:
a Comparative Study

http://www.hanselawreview.org/pdf3/Vol2No1Art10.pdf

Very interesting I'm sure, but the law on the ground is that they, you, or I can burn flags all day and it's still not illegal. Frankly, lobbying for a flag burning law seems like a major distraction from more pressing issues on the ground - like the ****e you've had to put up with from kids in your neighbourhood.

karma_ · 14-07-2012 6:51pm

alastair wrote: »

I'll save my ire for actions that impinge on actual people, not fabric. How do you propose to stop people burning a flag if they want to? It's not illegal here or there (NI).

The whole point is it did impinge on people. You have one such guy in this thread who had the flag of his country burned on his doorstep, if that is not flat out intimidation then what is?

How would we feel if were in Poland and they built a big fire right where you lived and burned an Irish flag? Is that an environment you could feel safe in?

Not only is it downright fúcking pathetic these saps thought it acceptable to burn that particular flag or indeed any flag, it's more tragic still that others can't see the problem inherent in that kind of behaviour. Why should we do as you suggest and ignore this kind of thing and allow those who intimidate to do so with impunity. without so much as a chastening word?

WakeUp · 14-07-2012 6:53pm

Clearly a large number of the Unionist people up North are not racists just normal people like the rest of us , I would hope the vast majority , unlike the OO up there who quite clearly , in the main , are hate filled nasty spiteful bigots.

If any further evidence was needed that these cretins have no place marching in our capital this was it. Obviously I cant speak for everyone in Dublin and wouldn't attempt to, but as far as I'm concerned the Northern OO are not welcome in my city until such a time as the experience evolution - post Neanderthal would be a good place to begin - if ever. Though for me the idea is a non-starter I believe there isn't a hope of them being allowed come down here and do their "thing" - again. And even if some bizzare ill-informed decision is made that gives them permission to come down here, they wont make it pass the bus station this time, will be straight back on the buses and straight back to where they came from - rightly so. The northern OO wanting to openly march through my city - in their current racist bigoted incarnation - strikes me as one of three things though I cant decide which - incredibly brave, incredibly stupid or premeditated provocation.

If the southern OO lodges want to do something as far as I'm aware they are all very normal and non-racist then best of luck to them I wouldn't have a problem with that at all once they aren't being provocative and are respectful and show dignity.

If the northern OO really want to march in Dublin there is only one route/destination I would even consider though it wouldn't really be fair on the current "residents" we would really need to consult with them first before giving the all clear. Northern OO, great bunch of racists them lads.

alastair · 14-07-2012 6:57pm

karma_ wrote: »

The whole point is it did impinge on people. You have one such guy in this thNot only is it downright fúcking pathetic these saps thought it acceptable to burn that particular flag or indeed any flag, it's more tragic still that others can't see the problem inherent in that kind of behaviour. Why should we do as you suggest and ignore this kind of thing and allow those who intimidate to do so with impunity. without so much as a chastening word?

That's your solution - 'a chastening word'?

I'll stick with ignoring the attention-seeking idiocy.

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 6:58pm

karma_ wrote: »

The whole point is it did impinge on people. You have one such guy in this thread who had the flag of his country burned on his doorstep, if that is not flat out intimidation then what is?

How would we feel if were in Poland and they built a big fire right where you lived and burned an Irish flag? Is that an environment you could feel safe in?

Not only is it downright fúcking pathetic these saps thought it acceptable to burn that particular flag or indeed any flag, it's more tragic still that others can't see the problem inherent in that kind of behaviour. Why should we do as you suggest and ignore this kind of thing and allow those who intimidate to do so with impunity. without so much as a chastening word?

Can that be called intimidation?
Or, national based hate,
or as police officer described it hate crime,
any other suggestions?

Trust me, this s**t is ONLY normal here. Nuts

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 6:59pm

If we will find legal definition of this act, this can be stopped.

alastair · 14-07-2012 7:05pm

WakeUp wrote: »

Clearly a large number of the Unionist people up North are not racists just normal people like the rest of us , I would hope the vast majority , unlike the OO up there who quite clearly , in the main , are hate filled nasty spiteful bigots.

If any further evidence was needed that these cretins have no place marching in our capital this was it. Obviously I cant speak for everyone in Dublin and wouldn't attempt to, but as far as I'm concerned the Northern OO are not welcome in my city until such a time as the experience evolution - post Neanderthal would be a good place to begin - if ever. Though for me the idea is a non-starter I believe there isn't a hope of them being allowed come down here and do their "thing" - again. And even if some bizzare ill-informed decision is made that gives them permission to come down here, they wont make it pass the bus station this time, will be straight back on the buses and straight back to where they came from - rightly so. The northern OO wanting to openly march through my city - in their current racist bigoted incarnation - strikes me as one of three things though I cant decide which - incredibly brave, incredibly stupid or premeditated provocation.

If the southern OO lodges want to do something as far as I'm aware they are all very normal and non-racist then best of luck to them I wouldn't have a problem with that at all once they aren't being provocative and are respectful and show dignity.

If the northern OO really want to march in Dublin there is only one route/destination I would even consider though it wouldn't really be fair on the current "residents" we would really need to consult with them first before giving the all clear. Northern OO, great bunch of racists them lads.

The OO is always going to be a sectarian organisation - even those nice southern lodges you've deemed 'normal' are guilty of this. Likewise the vast majority of northern lodge members hold sectarian opinions, but don't feel the need to perform synchronised routines outside catholic churches. Hundreds of thousands came out on the twelfth, and by my count, less than a hundred chose to participate in the whole church debacle. The Lower Ormeau road issue passed off with compromise this year - seemingly even the Neanderthals can sit down and work out a deal if it's needed.

I'm also not sure how you've decided all northern OO members are 'racists' into the bargain. Awfully broad brushstrokes at play there.

tayto lover · 14-07-2012 7:08pm

I think this kind of provocative act outside a Catholic Church can be stopped easily by the use of 6 or 7 slurry tanks.

Noreen1 · 14-07-2012 7:22pm

TommyPolack wrote: »

If we will find legal definition of this act, this can be stopped.

In Ireland, this might come under "Incitement to Hatred". (I'm not a legal professional).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2.

In Northern Ireland - I don't know.

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 7:38pm

karma_ wrote: »

The whole point is it did impinge on people. You have one such guy in this thread who had the flag of his country burned on his doorstep, if that is not flat out intimidation then what is?

How would we feel if were in Poland and they built a big fire right where you lived and burned an Irish flag? Is that an environment you could feel safe in?

Not only is it downright fúcking pathetic these saps thought it acceptable to burn that particular flag or indeed any flag, it's more tragic still that others can't see the problem inherent in that kind of behaviour. Why should we do as you suggest and ignore this kind of thing and allow those who intimidate to do so with impunity. without so much as a chastening word?

Thanks,

From my first post
“I was quiet when kids damaged my cars numerous times.
I was quiet when little bastards threw garbage, eggs at my home.
I was quiet when everywhere you go you are pushed to the side for the benefit of local society.
I was quiet when drive by thugs broke windows in my friend’s car.
I was quiet when joy riders demolished my friends cars numerous time.
I was quiet when my wife was verbally abused by the kids age 7-12
and more”

And now this s**t in front of my house

Go and ask anyone from any other place than Belfast and ask this question – Is it OK to burn national flags at the door steps of your "friends"?
I get it. For you it is OK, but ask other nations what they think about it. Belfast became a multicultural place.

We need a legal term for those actions against immigrants / visitors.

Freedom ends where privacy starts.

It is not subject to discussion, it is a firsthand story based on facts. In this thread we gathered enough stories about Belfast “relations” with people who filled up the gaps you wouldn’t be able to fill without us –people from abroad.

How about to respect other people values and make sure it won’t happen again? How hard can that be? Keep marches and all that other stuff, but for crying that loud, there are little kids that learn hate towards other nation’s flags. It is soooooo messed up. It does not matter if it is Polish, Irish or Zimbabwean flag.

Don’t believe me. Educate yourself about influence of such acts. Everywhere you go, everywhere you ask it is wrong thing to do by any standards.

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 7:51pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

In Ireland, this might come under "Incitement to Hatred". (I'm not a legal professional).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/sec0002.html#sec2.

In Northern Ireland - I don't know.

Got it!
Thank you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitement_to_ethnic_or_racial_hatred#United_Kingdom

“Under the Law of the United Kingdom, "incitement to racial hatred" was established as an offence by the provisions of §§ 17-29 of the Public Order Act 1986. It was first established as a criminal offence in the Race Relations Act 1976. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 made publication of material that incited racial hatred an arrestable offence.”

I am not legal adviser but it looks like a good start.

citytillidie · 14-07-2012 8:07pm

Have to laugh at those from the North or live here defending such actions on that video. Those bands men knew what they were doing.

Yes there are peaceful marches but that has come with lots of talk. They spent years talking in Derry, still not totally peaceful. At those flash point areas the Orange Order do not want to talk to the people that live there.

Laneyh · 14-07-2012 8:57pm

I've seen better culture in a yoghurt pot but really I think there are only 2 ways to go to respond to this

1. Completely ignore them, not be out on the street watching them.. This will serve to highlight how childish and petty it is
it won't be near as enjoyable for them if they think the Catholics are unaffected by it.

2. Inject some humour - this will confuse the pompous bigots.
Perhaps a river dance flashmob timed to coincide with there little march.

Laneyh · 14-07-2012 9:07pm

Pedant wrote: »

And people wonder why there's riots? I mean come on, this is just utter provocation.

Imagine what would happen if the Ancient Order of Hibernians had a spectacle like that outside an Anglican Church in NI singing anti-British songs - what do you think the reaction would be?

It's just terrible. I mean communities who've been there a lot longer than those Ulster-Scots are being told to "go home". Who the fudge do they think they are? I wonder who should be telling who to "go home"? It's utterly pathetic.

The Orange Order are one of the main catalysts for tensions in NI, as ever. Hope they get banned. They talk about improving intercommunal relations, etc.., but how are the Orange Order helping that?

You don't see any exclusively Catholic bands marching around behaving like that. Why can't Catholics and Protestants just get along as they do in the Republic?

There are a few Orange Orders in the South in Donegal & Cavan.. Do they march on the 12th get up to anything that riles the rest of the population ?

getzls · 14-07-2012 9:11pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

Sheer sectarianism, its cause polish people tend to be catholic

What's that saying? Goes like, if a lie is repeated often enough people think it's true? So blame all Unionists for a few foolish, ignorant bigots burning the Polish flag. Would have been hard for the police stop any flag burning.

tayto lover · 14-07-2012 9:15pm

All marches should be banned. No need for this triumphalist bulls*** in this day and age. Ban them all Loyalist and Republican.

Pedant · 14-07-2012 9:16pm

Laneyh wrote: »

There are a few Orange Orders in the South in Donegal & Cavan.. Do they march on the 12th get up to anything that riles the rest of the population ?

They don't march because they know better and/or the local authority doesn't allow them to because it's well known to the dog on the street that they like to stir the shite.

Pantsface · 14-07-2012 9:17pm

Both sides are as bad as eachother, have no time for either.

Bessiebee · 14-07-2012 9:23pm

Pedant wrote: »

They don't march because they know better and/or the local authority doesn't allow them to because it's well known to the dog on the street that they like to stir the shite.

Sorry but they do march, the annual 12th is in Rossnowlagh, County DONEGAL on the Saturday before the 12th. There does be even some Catholics in attendance - in fact half the marchers are married to one, some even have children which could be described as such :eek:

No sh/te stirring either - Donegal County Council very tolerant.

Laneyh · 14-07-2012 9:29pm

Bessiebee wrote: »

Sorry but they do march, the annual 12th is in Rossnowlagh, County DONEGAL on the Saturday before the 12th. There does be even some Catholics in attendance - in fact half the marchers are married to one, some even have children which could be described as such :eek:

No sh/te stirring either - Donegal County Council very tolerant.

Interesting thanks

Chuck Stone · 14-07-2012 9:30pm

tayto lover wrote: »

All marches should be banned. No need for this triumphalist bulls*** in this day and age. Ban them all Loyalist and Republican.

That's not the solution. In fact that would only play into the siege mentality and persecution complex of loyalists.

The whole marching thing seems to be on the wane. Shure what's the point in being triumphalist over centuries old events if you can't antagonise your phantom 'enemy'.

Pantsface wrote: »

Both sides are as bad as eachother, have no time for either.

A deep and insightful synopsis. It's a pity you couldn't have made that wonderful, all-encompassing critique on the first page so we could close the thread instead of having us dullards arguing amongst ourselves.

Happyman42 · 14-07-2012 9:33pm

alastair wrote: »

and all this is proof that the OO was/is state-supported. Gotcha.

Think they would have gotten marching where they wanted without having the weight of the state security protecting them? You really have a denial problem.:D

That's exactly what I was saying. :rolleyes:

Iwouldn't agree that Trimble, RObinson and Paisley are neanderthals but whatever rocks your boat.

Maybe your local lodges aren't indicative of the overall numbers - Keady had a healthy attendance this year, and overall the numbers are still massive. Like it or not, it's still got years of go left in it. The future is going to be about managing the idiots, not hoping the marches wither away.

The interest is waning, of that there is no doubt.
All that will be left will be the thugs with nothing else to do in the summer.

Happyman42 · 14-07-2012 9:38pm

getzls wrote: »

What's that saying? Goes like, if a lie is repeated often enough people think it's true? So blame all Unionists for a few foolish, ignorant bigots burning the Polish flag. Would have been hard for the police stop any flag burning.

If you are a member of the OO then by extension you are a sectarian bigot. It's why the moderates are leaving it.

steddyeddy · 14-07-2012 9:46pm

Not all unionists are sectarian. They just want their beliefs respected. I went to see the golf in the north recently and due to lack of planning we stayed in a unionist town. We were a bit nervous going into the local bar but I have to say the locals were very friendly. The bar man went out his way to make us welcome and even told us there is some places we would want to be careful of with out accent.

woodoo · 14-07-2012 9:59pm

TommyPolack wrote: »

Hi,
I am the author of the viral videos on youtube (“Burning Polish and Irish flags”) about British xenophobic / sectarian orgy across the Belfast. I was quiet until British / Loyalists / Protestants decided to cross very sensitive line – burning our flag which represent history longer than 1000 years. WE (Polish) don’t give a f**k about your local traditions of spreading HATE towards other nations, but when you do the act which we have seen during Nazi occupation prior 1945, you went one step too far.

Time to act and I promise, this will be the last time you have done it.
I was quiet when kids damaged my cars numerous times.
I was quiet when little bastards threw garbage, eggs at my home.
I was quiet when everywhere you go you are pushed to the side for the benefit of local society.
I was quiet when drive by thugs broke windows in my friend’s car.
I was quiet when joy riders demolished my friends cars numerous time.
I was quiet when my wife was verbally abused by the kids age 7-12.
I can go on and on with listening nationalistic and / colonialistic tactics used on myself or my friends.

A burning polish flag is something new in Belfast this year and it really looks like an organised action, where “order” came from above and sprinkled downwards. It is clear as the sun.

I have tried to call local police – useless as usual. Empty promises, I have tried to react among my closest neighbours (organiser of event live across the road) – no joy. My national flag have been burned in front of my house...

Because of that I am in the process of:
Spreading the news across the web in Germany, Poland, Ireland and UK.
Polish Embassy is informed about this unlawful act.
Polish Association has been informed.
Polish politicians, prime minister and president received the note about this provocation. In Poland it is the “Hate Crime” punishable with 6 months in jail.
Belfast council has been informed.
Polish and British newspapers recieved the message.
Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, G+ and many other services are used to campaign against such acts.
And many, many more

2 days = 2000 visitors so far and I am just getting started.
THE ENTIRE Polish community (2nd biggest after Irish) is outraged and I am the internet voice of it rage. Observe the newspapers...

They are scum alright Tommy. But please make sure when your are letting people in Poland, Germany etc know about this. That you tell them clearly that it is Northern Irish British Loyalists. Not Ordinary Irish people.

Galwayguy35 · 14-07-2012 10:09pm

Noone is saying they can't march or celebrate their tradition but I just don't understand why they feel they have to push themselves down the Ardoyne when they are clearly not welcome. There seems to be no compromise in the OO.
And I don't know what would bring them down to Dublin to march either.

Bessiebee · 14-07-2012 10:17pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Noone is saying they can't march or celebrate their tradition but I just don't understand why they feel they have to push themselves down the Ardoyne when they are clearly not welcome. There seems to be no compromise in the OO.
And I don't know what would bring them down to Dublin to march either.

In all fairness they don't "push themselves down the Ardoyne" - do some research - btw I am not a member of the OO nor do I defend what happened outside that church but I think the whole entire incident has got too much publicity. It is the Dublin/Wicklow lodges that want to march in Dublin - no need for anyone else to be going "down to Dublin".

Happyman42 · 14-07-2012 10:22pm

Bessiebee wrote: »

It is the Dublin/Wicklow lodges that want to march in Dublin - no need for anyone else to be going "down to Dublin".

Who on top of the protestant nonsense give their allegiance to the crown?
More insane than their northern bretren.

Noreen1 · 14-07-2012 10:25pm

Bessiebee wrote: »

Sorry but they do march, the annual 12th is in Rossnowlagh, County DONEGAL on the Saturday before the 12th. There does be even some Catholics in attendance - in fact half the marchers are married to one, some even have children which could be described as such :eek:

No sh/te stirring either - Donegal County Council very tolerant.

I think it's fair to add that most people in the Ireland are very tolerant.
Where respect is shown, it is returned.

There is none of the triumphalist, provocative behaviour being discussed in this thread shown by marchers in Donegal - and there is, therefore, no resistance among the locals to the march.

Maybe the louts shown in the video could learn a thing or two from the organisers of the Donegal march?

Bessiebee · 14-07-2012 10:25pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who on top of the protetstant nonsense give their allegiance to the crown?
More insane than their northern bretren.

care to elaborate on "protestant nonsense"??

Galwayguy35 · 14-07-2012 10:33pm

Bessiebee wrote: »

In all fairness they don't "push themselves down the Ardoyne" - do some research - btw I am not a member of the OO nor do I defend what happened outside that church but I think the whole entire incident has got too much publicity. It is the Dublin/Wicklow lodges that want to march in Dublin - no need for anyone else to be going "down to Dublin".

Really? So you think they are welcomed in the Ardoyne do you?

Noreen1 · 14-07-2012 10:37pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who on top of the protetstant nonsense give their allegiance to the crown?
More insane than their northern bretren.

I do find it confusing that people who were born in Ireland consider themselves British, and give their allegiance to the Crown.

However, it is their Democratic right to march, provided they do so in a peaceful manner, without the triumphalist nonsense displayed by some lodges in the North.

I say let them at it - but the route should take account of Republican sensibilities, and avoid areas such as the Garden of Remembrance, GPO, etc.

Any provocative displays by the marchers should result in that Lodge being barred from marching next year.

That way, the Orange Order members rights are respected, no offence is given to Nationalists - and any trouble has consequences.
Also, Dublin City centre will not be brought to a standstill, thus limiting the impact on an already struggling business community.

It can be done - it just requires basic respect from both sides - and a Garda presence to ensure that the march is trouble free.

Bessiebee · 14-07-2012 10:39pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Really? So you think they are welcomed in the Ardoyne do you?

Where did I say that?? I just said the phrase "pushing themselves down the Ardoyne" was a bit inaccurate, though they might very well be welcome by the protestant people in the Ardoyne. Yes, I do believe some protestants may live there too.

I am not an OO sympathiser, I just reckon there are more important things in life to get stressed about.

Galwayguy35 · 14-07-2012 10:46pm

Bessiebee wrote: »

Where did I say that?? I just said the phrase "pushing themselves down the Ardoyne" was a bit inaccurate, though they might very well be welcome by the protestant people in the Ardoyne. Yes, I do believe some protestants may live there too.

I am not an OO sympathiser, I just reckon there are more important things in life to get stressed about.

That's your opinion that there are more important things to get stressed about but alot of people have an interest in what is happening on this island to people who are from the same backround as the rest of us and the disrespect shown to our flag every year by that lot.

woodoo · 14-07-2012 10:53pm

alastair wrote: »

I've lived in NI for years, am still a regular visitor, and my partner is from Belfast. I'm well aware of the reality.

I'll guess you are a Dublin protestant going out with a Belfast protestant and are well and truly bought and sold by the idea of unionism/loyalism

3ndahalfof6 · 14-07-2012 10:56pm

woodoo wrote: »

I'll guess you are a Dublin protestant going out with a Belfast protestant and are well and truly bought and sold by the idea of unionism/loyalism

you should do the lotto

Bessiebee · 14-07-2012 11:00pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

That's your opinion that there are more important things to get stressed about but alot of people have an interest in what is happening on this island to people who are from the same backround as the rest of us and the disrespect shown to our flag every year by that lot.

I'm sorry if you don't get where I'm coming from but disrespect from both sides has been going on for years and a band being deliberately provocative even in 2012 is not something anyone should be suprised at.

The only solution to the entire situation both North and South is integrated education starting at primary level - those children with the band in that video will grow up with a hatred of everything catholic and perhaps if they actually met a few catholics and mixed with them they might have a better chance of avoiding the bigotry of their parents.

Nodin · 14-07-2012 11:41pm

woodoo wrote: »

I'll guess you are a Dublin protestant going out with a Belfast protestant and are well and truly bought and sold by the idea of unionism/loyalism

Bit of a sectarian generalisation there, tbh.

getzls · 14-07-2012 11:43pm

Man arrested for attempted murder it seems during rioting, wonder how far he came to be offended? They have travelled from far and wide before.

Nodin · 14-07-2012 11:44pm

getzls wrote: »

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/central/

???????

woodoo · 14-07-2012 11:45pm

Nodin wrote: »

Bit of a sectarian generalisation there, tbh.

It is a guess based on how he is coming across in his posts. There is nothing general about it.

orange provocation

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