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Dublin outer orbital motorway included in new NDP today

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    #32
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,858 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    DubTony wrote:
    How many people, from places like Dunshaughlin, Drogheda, Ardee, Navan, Carlow, Kildare, etc. who don't need to go anywhere near Dublin, actually use the M50 to complete these non Dublin journeys?

    And why don't they use it? Because of the jams caused by the toll.


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    #33
    jesus_thats_gre
    Registered Users Posts: 17,441 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Lennoxschips wrote:
    an outer ring road will only make things worse. ireland is run by muppets!

    Why would it make things worse?



    I personally am for such a plan in principle. The person who made the point about going from Belfast to Cork via Dublin summed up the problem perfectly. If people do not need to go near Dublin on their journey, they should be given the oppurtunity and even encouraged to avoid it completely.


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    #34
    DubTony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭DubTony


    The Swordsman wrote:
    If part of Dublin Port is moved to Bremore, as proposed, this should be the starting point for the new road. It could connect up to the suggested M52. It would be pointless IMO to move the port and then force it's traffic back into Dublin and onto the M50. )

    now ye're talkin'. I wonder do any of the planners read boards.ie? Obviously not.
    The Swordsman wrote:
    'Wouldn't mind paying a toll' - Are you mad?;)

    OK, how about "Now there's a road some people probably wouldn't mind paying a toll or three on." :D


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    #35
    Lennoxschips
    Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Lennoxschips


    jesus_thats_gre wrote:
    I personally am for such a plan in principle. The person who made the point about going from Belfast to Cork via Dublin summed up the problem perfectly. If people do not need to go near Dublin on their journey, they should be given the oppurtunity and even encouraged to avoid it completely.

    How much traffic do you think is going from Belfast to Cork? When this road is built it will be another boon for property developers, who seem to wield a considerable amount of power in this country. It will only facilitate the spread of urban sprawl in the Dublin area.

    Yet the popularity of these morally corrupt muppets in government continues to go up.


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    #36
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Flukey wrote:
    A direct line to Derry from Dublin, would not just serve people going to Derry from Dublin or vice versa. As I said it would also serve a lot of people in Meath, and in the same way, right up through the route it would take. It could be someone going from Meath to Tyrone, or any two points along the line you care to pick. They are screaming out for a better rail service from Meath to Dublin. A line between Dublin and Derry would serve those people. Do work on the Dublin to Belfast and Belfast to Derry line as you suggest, but they don't serve a large area of the country that want to travel. Look at a rail map of Ireland and between the Dublin-Belfast Line and the Dublin-Sligo line there is nothing. Thats a whole area of the north-midlands, north Leinster and mid-Ulster that have not got a service. There are thousands of people travelling by road in those areas that would use a rail line if there was one. Give Meath its rail link to Dublin and then keep going and serve the people beyond that.
    No one lives there!
    Zebra3 wrote:
    DubTony wrote:
    How many people, from places like Dunshaughlin, Drogheda, Ardee, Navan, Carlow, Kildare, etc. who don't need to go anywhere near Dublin, actually use the M50 to complete these non Dublin journeys?
    And why don't they use it? Because of the jams caused by the toll.
    I think you got that completely the worng way around.
    DubTony wrote:
    The obvious solution is the M52, effectively replacing the N52. Start at the M1 between Dundalk and Drogheda and head east toward Ardee, turning south west to a junction with the M3 between Kells and Navan. Carry on toward the M4 and N6 junction east of Mullingar and south toward Portlaoise and connect with the M7 and offer access to the the N8. Then head south east to a point between Carlow and Kilkenny joining the M9 and on to the N11 somewhere near Gorey.
    It should start south of Drogheda to facilitate traffic going to / from Dogheda. There is no absolute need for it to serve the N9 or N11.


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    #37
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Definately not the N11, but a linkup with the N/M9 would be a good idea.


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    #38
    Zoney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    Chris_533976 wrote:
    Definately not the N11, but a linkup with the N/M9 would be a good idea.

    Yes - the thing to do would be not just upgrade the N52, but upgrade the N80 between the N52 at Tullamore and N9 at Carlow.

    I really don't think even motorway would be needed, just good quality road, maybe 2+1 for high volume sections where local traffic (e.g. Tullamore to Portlaoise, Portlaoise to Carlow) would be using it too - as much as say Galway-Waterford traffic.


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    #39
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    On Google Earth, a straight line from Navan to Derry passes through Monaghan. The new Mullingar? :D


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    #40
    Lennoxschips
    Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Lennoxschips


    I'd consider building a high-quality 2+1 road between Monasterevin, Trim, Navan and Drogheda for people from the south and west who want to head towards Belfast.

    This route is sufficiently out of the way and in a direction so that it wouldn't get used as a Dublin commuter route. I don't think it needs to be a motorway (the traffic volume just wouldn't justify it), a very good single carriageway road will do and shave an hour stuck in Dublin traffic off a Cork-Belfast trip.

    Ideally these are the kinds of strategic roads that should be built more instead of wasting money on things like the M3 and the M2.


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    #41
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    jesus_thats_gre wrote:
    If people do not need to go near Dublin on their journey, they should be given the oppurtunity and even encouraged to avoid it completely.
    That's what the M50 was supposed to do!


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    #42
    The Swordsman
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭The Swordsman


    murphaph wrote:
    Originally Posted by jesus_thats_gre
    If people do not need to go near Dublin on their journey, they should be given the oppurtunity and even encouraged to avoid it completely

    That's what the M50 was supposed to do!

    Not exactly. It was supposed to a sort of bypass for the City Centre. Before the M50 was built, most journeys from the Northside to the Southside would involve a trip through the City Centre.

    It was never meant to be a 'Dublin' bypass. If it was it would be built outside Dublin.


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    #43
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The Swordsman wrote:
    It was never meant to be a 'Dublin' bypass.
    Yes it was.
    The Swordsman wrote:
    If it was it would be built outside Dublin.
    It was outside Dublin (city) when it was planned.


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    #44
    The Swordsman
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭The Swordsman


    murphaph wrote:
    Yes it was.


    It was outside Dublin (city) when it was planned.

    Ok. Fair enough. But when people are talking about 'Dublin', they are not talking about inside the M50, they are talking about the sprawl that extends way past the M50.

    The M50 may have been planned as a bypass for 'Dublin' as it existed at the time, but not as it exists now.


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    #45
    Bards
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭Bards


    and what makes you so sure that this new orbital road will not become part of the great sprawl that is Dublin in 20/30 years time


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    #46
    The Swordsman
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭The Swordsman


    Bards wrote:
    and what makes you so sure that this new orbital road will not become part of the great sprawl that is Dublin in 20/30 years time

    I never said I was. I'm no expert (far from it) but I would need to be convinced that the sprawl would not have happened if the M50 was not built. Obviously if the building of the M50 did somehow lead to urban sprawl, then the mistakes that were made should not be repeated with a new road.

    It is my (not so expert) opinion that both Dublin and the rest of this island need this orbital road. But I could be wrong - maybe upgrading the M50 and removing the toll booths will do the trick.


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    #47
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,973 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Bards wrote:
    and what makes you so sure that this new orbital road will not become part of the great sprawl that is Dublin in 20/30 years time
    Because it's miles away from the city. You'd need to sprawl for 50 years to even reach it. The M50, being right up next to or in some parts actually *in* the city, was always going to become a distributor road.


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    #48
    Bards
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭Bards


    spacetweek wrote:
    Because it's miles away from the city. You're need to sprawl for 50 years to even reach it. The M50, being right up next to or in some parts actually *in* the city, was always going to become a distributor road.

    doesn't matter if it miles away... if they allow development along it then it will be clogged in 20 years or less.. they need to sterilse the land around it say 5 miles each direction and not allow any development. Only then can we say for sure that it wil be a true orbital route...

    but hey this is Ireland , the land of the brown envelope and call me cynical but I reckon the big developers with large wads of cash will rule the day and screw the Spatial Strategy


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