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Car dealer going back on his word, need some advice

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  • 09-08-2012 7:40pm
    #1
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭


    hey so i bought a car about 6 weeks ago, saw it on donedeal from a dealer in limerick went on a test drive with a friend an it drove great was really nice an smooth, when i was buying it i was told id have a 3 month warranty on it, today the car broke down and couldnt be driven i had to push it down the road to a garage. when i rang my dealer he went back on his word an wont cover the cost of repairs (i still dont know how much its guna cost yet) he told me i never had a warranty an that he wouldnt have given one. obviously i was raging. so when i got home i found the donedeal advert online that says the car was sold with a warranty an i have my friend that was with me who heard the dealer sayin i have a warranty on it. i rang him again when i found the ad and he just got really thick an told me get a solicitor if i want my money (i think he thought i was bluffing about having proof against him) so has anyone else had a problem like this before, an if so what did you do about it?? any help of advice would really be appreciated.


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    #2
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    So I take it you don't have this warranty in writing then?

    Tbh, it doesn't sound all that great, I'd say you'll struggle to get anywhere.

    What's the car and what's the problem?


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    #3
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Make sure you print the screen of the ad. And yes, get a solicitor if you have no luck. Citizens advice may be worth a call first. They might contact him, because he is a trader. Don't accept anything but the full cost of repair, or refund from this cheeky runt.

    Would proof of the ad with warranty written on it not suffice?


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    #4
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    goz83 wrote: »
    Make sure you print the screen of the ad. And yes, get a solicitor if you have no luck. Citizens advice may be worth a call first. They might contact him, because he is a trader. Don't accept anything but the full cost of repair, or refund from this cheeky runt.

    Would proof of the ad with warranty written on it not suffice?

    Well, the way I'd be seeing this, is that the ad isn't the deal that was agreed upon. The terms agreed were not outlined in the ad.

    That being said, the dealer is obliged to provide a warranty as far as i know, so this is where the OP will have to focus imo.

    But again, what car was it? What kind of money are we talking?


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    #5
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Petey89


    i have the add saved on my laptop he clearly states on the add "car will be sold with 3 month warranty" and i have a witness of him saying it and on the receipt he never ticked the box for sold as seen so that would indicate a warranty, it was fine since i got it drove great an then i was at the beach today went to leave as i was driving away i noticed there was no air coming out of the air con so i was guna pull in at the petrol station but i didnt even get half way an it just died in the middle of a roundabout an wouldnt start just a click when i turned the key an a smell of burning my partner said it smelled like acid burning but i dunno what that could be. its a 02 opel astra


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    #6
    Jarren
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭Jarren


    What to do if something goes wrong

    If you feel you have been misled about any aspect of the car or if something goes wrong after buying the car, you should:

    Contact the seller immediately and ask what they intend to do about the problem. If the car is under warranty, check the terms and conditions to see what it says about the seller’s obligations. Your normal consumer rights may still apply.

    If a member of the Society of Irish Motor Industry (SIMI) sells you a car, you may have to go through the SIMI complaints process. A dealer will usually ask you to sign a form at the point of sale agreeing to comply with this process. If you did not sign an agreement, you can take legal action by hiring a solicitor at your own cost. The investigation and complaints service of SIMI deals with complaints relating to:

    the purchase of used vehicles from retail member companies and
    the service or repair of vehicles by retail members companies except those subject to a manufacturers warranty claim. For more information, check out the website www.simi.ie.

    If there is something wrong with the car and your claim does not exceed €2,000, you have the option of going through the Small Claims process. However, if you bought a car privately, you cannot go through the Small Claims process because you cannot take a case against another consumer. However, you can still consider legal action by consulting with a solicitor. The Small Claims process does not deal with cases relating to finance agreements, including hire purchase agreements, as you do not own the car until you make the last payment.

    If you are in dispute with the garage you may want to get an independent mechanic to check the car out on your behalf and write a report on the fault that has occurred. If the report states that the fault should not be occurring in a car of its age and condition then you may be able to use this report to make a claim against the garage.


    http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?p=133&n=177&a=349


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    #7
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Petey89 wrote: »
    i have the add saved on my laptop he clearly states on the add "car will be sold with 3 month warranty" and i have a witness of him saying it

    Your witness is not credible, as he is a friend.


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    #8
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Petey89


    In this situation you, as a consumer, are protected by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 as you are buying a car for your personal use from a person whose normal business it is to sell cars. As a consumer you have the same rights if you buy an item second hand as if it is new. In this case if you find a fault with the car after you have bought it the dealer is the person who must set matters right.
    wouldnt this mean that he wouls have to pay for the problems to be fixed under the sales of goods and supply of services act 1980??


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    #9
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Petey89 wrote: »
    i have the add saved on my laptop he clearly states on the add "car will be sold with 3 month warranty"
    Ad advertisement is an invitation. The statement "car will be sold with 3 month warranty" means jack sh1t because he can claim you chose to forgo the warranty or it didn't form part of the actual contract. You have no documented proof it formed part of the contract.
    Petey89 wrote: »
    and i have a witness of him saying it
    Your witness is not impartial and therefore can be disputed.
    Petey89 wrote: »
    and on the receipt he never ticked the box for sold as seen so that would indicate a warranty,
    No it doesn't. Just because "sold as seen" wasn't ticked doesn't mean he gave you a warranty.
    Petey89 wrote: »
    it was fine since i got it drove great an then i was at the beach today went to leave as i was driving away i noticed there was no air coming out of the air con so i was guna pull in at the petrol station but i didnt even get half way an it just died in the middle of a roundabout an wouldnt start just a click when i turned the key an a smell of burning my partner said it smelled like acid burning but i dunno what that could be. its a 02 opel astra

    That said, you do have consumer rights which can't be taken away even if you don't have a warranty.


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    #10
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,144 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Verbal warranties are not worth the paper they are written on.

    Op, did you get a receipt at the time of purchase, does it state if there is a warranty or was it sold as seen? Talk to the National Consumer Agency and see where you stand.


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    #11
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Petey89


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Verbal warranties are not worth the paper they are written on.

    Op, did you get a receipt at the time of purchase, does it state if there is a warranty or was it sold as seen? Talk to the National Consumer Agency and see where you stand.
    yes i have a receipt it doesnt state that i have a warranty but it doesnt state that the car was sold as seen either. there is a box with "sold as seen" over it but he didnt fill in it


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    #12
    thomasm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭thomasm


    Name and shame


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    #13
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,144 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    thomasm wrote: »
    Name and shame

    It serves no benefit to the OP to do here at this stage and may harm their case against the dealer.


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    #14
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Petey89


    bazz26 wrote: »
    It serves no benefit to the OP to do here at this stage and may harm their case against the dealer.
    yes i have no intention of doing that until the legal proceeding are over an then i will make sure people know what a cowboy dealer he is.


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    #15
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Find out what the problem is first. If it is something that could be considered to have developed since sold then the SGSS Act does not apply, no more than it applies to a broken zip on a jacket that occurs 6 weeks after purchase.

    If it's something that the dealer would or could have known about that would mean the product was not of merchantable quality at the time of purchase, then the SGSS Act applies.

    Like others have said, if you don't have an express written agreement then it's your word against the dealers, and it is a 10 year old car, so it would be reasonable for a dealer to claim in a court that a warranty did not apply, but they have a standard advert which said it did in error.


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    #16
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Petey89


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Find out what the problem is first. If it is something that could be considered to have developed since sold then the SGSS Act does not apply, no more than it applies to a broken zip on a jacket that occurs 6 weeks after purchase.

    If it's something that the dealer would or could have known about that would mean the product was not of merchantable quality at the time of purchase, then the SGSS Act applies.

    Like others have said, if you don't have an express written agreement then it's your word against the dealers, and it is a 10 year old car, so it would be reasonable for a dealer to claim in a court that a warranty did not apply, but they have a standard advert which said it did in error.

    so it would basically be my word against his if it went to court, hes such a cowboy i really was played. he knows he told me that there was a warranty an knows its on the advert but he could still get away with it, really makes me angry that these kind of people get away with things like this


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    #17
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Petey89 wrote: »
    so it would basically be my word against his if it went to court, hes such a cowboy i really was played. he knows he told me that there was a warranty an knows its on the advert but he could still get away with it, really makes me angry that these kind of people get away with things like this

    You don't even know what's wrong with the car, nobody gives a bumper to bumper wannanty on a 10 year old car.

    Find out what's wrong with it and then calmly, politely, slowly and clearly explain that to the dealer. If it's a warranty item, you could be in luck, but christ, you don't even know what's wrong with it:rolleyes:


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    #18
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Petey89


    ninty9er wrote: »
    You don't even know what's wrong with the car, nobody gives a bumper to bumper wannanty on a 10 year old car.

    Find out what's wrong with it and then calmly, politely, slowly and clearly explain that to the dealer. If it's a warranty item, you could be in luck, but christ, you don't even know what's wrong with it:rolleyes:
    look if it was your money and all of your saving that you used to buy the car an then this happens 6 weeks later you would probably be as angry as me right now.


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    #19
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,144 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    I'm surprised if any warranty from a dealer would cover much on a 10 year old car to be honest. There is very little profit in offering a warranty on a car of that age.

    As said find out what is wrong with it first and how much it will cost to put right.


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    #20
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Petey89 wrote: »
    look if it was your money and all of your saving that you used to buy the car an then this happens 6 weeks later you would probably be as angry as me right now.
    Perhaps, but being angry won't help you whereas following good advice might.


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    #21
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    As above. Find out whats wrong. Who knows, you might have put in the wrong juice ?

    You made a big mistake by not getting the warranty in writing, so you have to take blame there. When I was buying a 5 year old bmw a few years ago, the tyres were a bit jaded on the sides, but with plenty of thread. The garage were giving a 6 month warranty, which i got in writing and I also negotiated fresh tyres with the sales guy. A couple of weeks later, I decide to cash in on the tyres, but the sales guy had been sacked for "cooking the books". The owner was actually a really nice guy and once i showed him the written proof of the tyres being hand written on the sales docket and signed by the sales guy, the car got 4 fresh boots. The warranty came in very handy too, as the car was losing coolant, which took half a dozen attempts to fully repair.


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    #22
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    So I take it you don't have this warranty in writing then? ...
    That's irrelevant as in a sale from a motor-trader to a private individual, the car must be:
    1. fit for purpose
    2. of merchantable quality
    3. and as described.
    So it must work as a car for a reasonable period (6 weeks is unlikely to pass the test as a "reasonable period"), it must be free of defects (it clearly wasn't) and it must match the description in any advertising materials used and in any descriptions given or offered by the motor-trader of his staff (it clearly didn't).

    The mythical warranty is irrelevant. As already pointed out the SGASSA is your protector


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    #23
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    Well, the way I'd be seeing this, is that the ad isn't the deal that was agreed upon. The terms agreed were not outlined in the ad.

    That being said, the dealer is obliged to provide a warranty as far as i know, so this is where the OP will have to focus imo.

    But again, what car was it? What kind of money are we talking?

    All of this is untrue. The ad is relevant in so far as it describes what is being sold and it forms part of the contract between buyer and seller, the dealer is not obliged to offer a warranty and the car and its price make no difference to the purchaser's rights under law when buying from a motor-trader, and with regard to safety or undisclosed faults known to the seller, even if buying privately.


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    #24
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Jarren wrote: »
    What to do if something goes wrong ...
    Post contains inaccurate and/or misleading information. Please see http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html


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    #25
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    goz83 wrote: »
    Your witness is not credible, as he is a friend.
    Untrue. The witness is not independent but still has credibility unless it can be shown otherwise.
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Ad advertisement is an invitation. The statement "car will be sold with 3 month warranty" means jack sh1t because he can claim you chose to forgo the warranty or it didn't form part of the actual contract. You have no documented proof it formed part of the contract.
    ..
    Untrue as all advertising materials and all statements made in describing the car by the seller form part of the contract for sale.
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    ...
    Your witness is not impartial and therefore can be disputed...
    True but it doesn't undermine credibility.
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    ... No it doesn't. Just because "sold as seen" wasn't ticked doesn't mean he gave you a warranty. ...
    Untrue and it is illegal to sell a car "as seen" to a member of the public if the seller is a motor-trader or can be shown to be one e.g. multiple sale via web-sites etc even if posing as a private individual.

    Selling a junker to be made into a dune-buggy or an off-road competition car is completely different; if it's sold as an ordinary car withno qualification then it must work as a car.
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    ... That said, you do have consumer rights which can't be taken away even if you don't have a warranty.
    Absolutely correct and the quasi-legel SIMI contract even if its signed cannot change that as it is illegal to attempt to interfere with a buyer's rights under law.


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    #26
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Verbal warranties are not worth the paper they are written on...
    Incorrect. The form part of the sales contract if uttered by the motor-trader or his staff.
    bazz26 wrote: »
    ... Op, did you get a receipt at the time of purchase, does it state if there is a warranty or was it sold as seen? ....
    See my previous posts
    bazz26 wrote: »
    ... Talk to the National Consumer Agency and see where you stand.
    See link above to : http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html


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    #27
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Find out what the problem is first. If it is something that could be considered to have developed since sold then the SGSS Act does not apply, no more than it applies to a broken zip on a jacket that occurs 6 weeks after purchase...
    That is untrue and the example is a poor one as a broken zip could (and should in my view) just as easily be interpreted as a "manufactured in defect" so the sale of goods act still applies and the buyer is entitled to the remedies afforded under law.
    ninty9er wrote: »
    ... Like others have said, if you don't have an express written agreement then it's your word against the dealers, and it is a 10 year old car, so it would be reasonable for a dealer to claim in a court that a warranty did not apply, but they have a standard advert which said it did in error.
    None of this is true. See - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html


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    #28
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    bazz26 wrote: »
    I'm surprised if any warranty from a dealer would cover much on a 10 year old car to be honest. ...
    Warranty is irrelevant, consumer rights are what counts.
    bazz26 wrote: »
    ... There is very little profit in offering a warranty on a car of that age. ...
    Any warranty offered or not is irrelevant; consumer rights count. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html


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    #29
    Jarren
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭Jarren


    mathepac wrote: »
    Jarren wrote: »
    What to do if something goes wrong ...
    Post contains inaccurate and/or misleading information. Please see http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

    How this is inaccurate /misleading info?

    It's taken from the NCA website ffs.


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    #30
    scholar007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    Petey89 wrote: »
    when i rang my dealer he went back on his word an wont cover the cost of repairs

    No! I don't believe it! All Motor Dealers are as honest as the day is long.


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    #31
    Theta
    Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭Theta


    The ad is just an invitation to treat no? Like an ad in a shop. You have to agree final terms on purchase. Now if he verbally gave you an agreement that you had a warranty that is a different story but it will be impossible to prove. Small claims court is your best bet once you get the price, he will pay as soon as he gets the letter.


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