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US laws prevent the use of welfare in liquor stores and gambling establishments

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24

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    #32
    Red Crow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Why not just lock them up in workhouses and control every morsel they eat, every drop (of water only, naturally) they drink, what rags they wear, how often they wash and with what kind of soap, make them sleep in gender-segregated dormitories ---:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Yessir, the USA can play a pioneering role here and we'll all line up to follow their example.;);)

    --- And wonder why no one ever thought of it before.:):)

    Storing them in warehouses may accrue the state with storing charges and such so don't be so ridiculous.

    It's not a ridiculous suggestion actually.


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    #33
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Doesn't work. People buy stuff like pampers and sell them door to door for little or nothing to buy a bit of booze. Was tried before in Philly in the eighties.


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    #34
    Dartz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭Dartz


    Eli Manning wrote: »
    When a man is better off living off the state than working in it there is something horribly wrong.

    I'll agree with that part.

    It says something about the accumulated costs of working, such as car ownership or public transport, doesn't it? Like maybe, the cost of living in this country might be a little too high?


    On the other hand, the dole isn't just for week-to-week living. I've also used my dole money to replace a mobile phone that broke on me (Which I use to speak with employers), and have ordered a laptop computer which I will need for an internship I am due to start (My current machine has a faulty screen.).

    Some would call these luxuries. But considering that I missed out on a job interview because my phone dropped the call, I wouldn't.

    And if I managed to arrange my finances and budget so I can spend a little more on things that might make the dull drudgery of existance that little more bearable, bollox to anyone being a self-righteous git taking it away.


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    #35
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    Jesus Shaves wrote: »
    I'll see your 2 and offer you 2 food vouchers in lieu of 1 rollseyes smiley

    Let me see, I don't think you can beat my social welfare buggy and a bus pass.


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    #36
    Red Crow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    An attitude that we should maintain a basic sense of decency to people less fortunate than us? It's a small comfort, and it's putting money back in the economy, don't see the big problem. Just because someone is on the dole and enjoys a few drinks a week doesn't make him/her an alcoholic "scrounger" who has no intention of working again.

    Just because you are paying tax and a jobseeker temporarily isn't doesn't mean you have a right to control his or her life.

    It's not decent to provide someone who is living off the state free drink.

    and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.


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    #37
    starviewadams
    Registered Users Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    Will just lead to a massive black market and increased crime rates.America seem to love locking their citizens up so I can see why they'd be interested in introducing this system,but our economy/Gardai/prisons are at breaking point already so this system would be a disaster if brought in here,which it won't be anyways.


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    #38
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    mattjack wrote: »
    Let me see, I don't think you can beat my social welfare buggy and a bus pass.

    I'll take your buggy and get a handout for my youngests communion to be paid for


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    #39
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Eli Manning wrote: »

    and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.

    I think you'll find that all the money a person on social welfare receives goes back into the economy


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    #40
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    Eli Manning wrote: »
    It's not decent to provide someone who is living off the state free drink.

    and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.

    You're being sarcastic, right?


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    #41
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    At least they can still buy guns


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    #42
    Sinfonia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭Sinfonia


    Land of the free indeed.

    How ridiculous that anybody would support this idea. Those who work and complain about how the recipients of 'their' tax money spend it should consider how very, very little an individual actually contributes. The purpose of social welfare is that we, as a supposedly civilised society, help each other rather than simply allow the unemployed to die. If you work your fingers to the bone 70 hours a week running your own business and can't afford a few drinks, you are either bad with money, or bad at running your business. Or lying.

    (As is common in AH threads) if one thinks that being unemployed and on the dole is a better life than yours, go on the dole. If one thinks that prisoners have a better life than you, go to prison. If one thinks foreigners have it better than you, move. If you're not happy with how your country operates, find another one. You have options. Don't just **** all over everyone else if you're unhappy with your station in life. Don't worry about the fiver some unemployed person spends on a few cans of Tyskie.

    Some of the people who post here are so right wing it's ****ing scary.


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    #43
    vard
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭vard


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    An attitude that we should maintain a basic sense of decency to people less fortunate than us? It's a small comfort, and it's putting money back in the economy, don't see the big problem. Just because someone is on the dole and enjoys a few drinks a week doesn't make him/her an alcoholic "scrounger" who has no intention of working again.

    Just because you are paying tax and a jobseeker temporarily isn't doesn't mean you have a right to control his or her life.

    Then scrap the dole and there you go - control your own life. That's not a viable alternative though is it?

    People on welfare are better off than those working. There's the problem. Justify that without using some silly squiffy eyed smiley face.

    You don't get to demand tax funded party time while the majority of people who pay for it can't afford the same thing through working.

    If (it's an utter disgrace if it's the case) dole money is high enough that people are able to save up and get sloshed at the end of the week it should be chopped, slashed and redistributed so that those who really need it get the support they need. I work with people who have become homeless; have had to go without food; have lost their jobs - too many other scandelous situations to mention; Pints are the last of their worries.

    People are struggling to survive. If there's money left in the pot it should be put to use in subsidising employment and saving the dwindling industrious minority this country needs if it's to find a way towards recovery. Or - since you probably don't care about recovery - let's put it another way: The people you need if you want to keep going out and getting hammered every weekend.


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    #44
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    vard wrote: »
    People on welfare are better off than those working.

    Ah yeah, stagnating on the dole, having your confidence sapped away and becoming socially isolated is better than having a weekly wage, being involved with your colleagues, progressing in your career/life, adding value to your CV and skills.

    Such astounding ignorance.


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    #45
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    crapmanjoe wrote: »
    USA has passed a federal law requiring all states to come up with system / laws / legislation to prevent the use of welfare in liquor stores, gambling establishments and adult entertainment businesses by 2014.

    Do not want to get into a dole bashing argument here ......


    ....then you're going a very strange way about it.


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    #46
    vard
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭vard


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Ah yeah, stagnating on the dole, having your confidence sapped away and becoming socially isolated is better than having a weekly wage, being involved with your colleagues, progressing in your career/life, adding value to your CV and skills.

    Such astounding ignorance.

    Right back at you.

    Whatever about all the lovely little friends you might make while working, my point - as I'm sure you're aware - was in reference to money.

    However, you seem to neglect the significant amounts of playfully regarded "work-shy" people who have never worked and have no intention of ever doing so. Sure why would they need skills? A CV... !? Social isolation - No worries there! Sure, according to this thread, since it's entirely impossible to socialise without alcohol, that's what the dole is for!


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    #47
    Jester252
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    I think that people on the dole need to donate blood before getting their money.
    One it will help blood supply in the country
    Two they will get drunk quicker so less money is spend on drink that day


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    #48
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Jester252 wrote: »
    I think that people on the dole need to donate blood before getting their money.
    One it will help blood supply in the country
    Two they will get drunk quicker so less money is spend on drink that day

    If there was a competition for idiotic post of the day the winner would definitely be in this thread


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    #49
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Eli Manning wrote: »
    It's not decent to provide someone who is living off the state free drink.

    and lol at pumping money into the economy. I hope that's a joke.

    Right so should anything you consider "not decent" be prohibited for jobseekers? Sure GAA matches aren't a necessity, I suppose you think people on the dole shouldn't be allowed to go to them either. It's not free either, it's not like the government is giving them a quota of alcohol for their dole.

    Explain the "lol" comment as well, while you're at it.
    vard wrote: »
    Then scrap the dole and there you go - control your own life. That's not a viable alternative though is it?

    When someone proposed scrapping the dole, it is difficult to take them seriously and approach the rest of their post with an open mind. But no, it is not a viable alternative.

    vard wrote: »
    People on welfare are better off than those working. There's the problem. Justify that without using some silly squiffy eyed smiley face.

    No they are not. While I do think the cost of working is too high, people on the dole are not better off. I'm sure you will pull out some highly selective example comparing a rare case with the minimum wage while not factoring in benefits the worker might also be getting but to say that people on the dole are better off is untrue. It has been debunked. Many times.
    vard wrote: »
    You don't get to demand tax funded party time while the majority of people who pay for it can't afford the same thing through working.

    As had been explained, excluding people who have large families/unaffordable debt, people working should indeed have enough money for a few drinks at the weekend, if they are careful with money.
    vard wrote: »
    If (it's an utter disgrace if it's the case) dole money is high enough that people are able to save up and get sloshed at the end of the week it should be chopped, slashed and redistributed so that those who really need it get the support they need. I work with people who have become homeless; have had to go without food; have lost their jobs - too many other scandelous situations to mention; Pints are the last of their worries.

    Getting drunk is not particularly expensive if you don't want it to be so "saving up" shouldn't be a problem. And people on the dole are the people who really need it.
    vard wrote: »
    People are struggling to survive. If there's money left in the pot it should be put to use in subsidising employment and saving the dwindling industrious minority this country needs if it's to find a way towards recovery. Or - since you probably don't care about recovery - let's put it another way: The people you need if you want to keep going out and getting hammered every weekend.

    I'm not on the dole. And yes I do care about recovery. But this is not the way to go about it. I actually am in favour of modest cuts to the dole, not out of some misguided right wing principles, or because I think jobseekers are scroungers, but because I am a realist and I realise that JSA at its current level is not sustainable. But I still don't think this US proposal is a good idea.

    Question-how much are you in favour of limiting what a jobseeker should be able to spend money on? Anything you don't consider "essential" or is it just alcohol you have a particular bee in your bonnet about?


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    #50
    Chinasea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭Chinasea


    isn't welfare supposed to be stopping the wolf from coming to the door?


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    #51
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Chinasea wrote: »
    isn't welfare supposed to be stopping the wolf from coming to the door?

    I thought it painted a sign outside peoples gates saying "Angry Mob - Please assemble here".


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    #52
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Sinfonia wrote: »
    The purpose of social welfare is that we, as a supposedly civilised society, help each other rather than simply allow the unemployed to die.

    So you're going to die unless you can spend your dole on drink?
    What about children's allowance then, should that be ring fenced or is it ok to buy drink from that too?

    On a more serious note. It is a bit over the top but I can see where its coming from and I can't say I find its a totally outlandish idea. Contrary to popular belief the world does not come to a standstill if you don't get an alcoholic drink for longer than a week.


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    #53
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Boskowski wrote: »
    So you're going to die unless you can spend your dole on drink?
    What about children's allowance then, should that be ring fenced or is it ok to buy drink from that too?

    On a more serious note. It is a bit over the top but I can see where its coming from and I can't say I find its a totally outlandish idea. Contrary to popular belief the world does not come to a standstill if you don't get an alcoholic drink for longer than a week.

    You assume that everyone on welfare spends their money on alcohol

    Some of us spend it on heroin


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    #54
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Jesus Shaves wrote: »
    You assume that everyone on welfare spends their money on alcohol

    Some of us spend it on heroin

    Ye but thats already catered for. And I'm not assuming anything.


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    #55
    spacecookie555
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭spacecookie555


    I cant understand peoples silly attitudes against people who have fallen on tough times, there are very few people who are life long dole scroungers and these people I agree should be made go into education at least but all these business owners who constantly rib people who are miserable already with their "my taxes" bull would want to get off their high horses.
    The fact is people on the dole still pay taxes, you cant buy a pair a knickers without paying vat and while the dole people usually spend ALL their money on YOUR businesses business owners you usually squirrel it away in the corrupt banks so whos really contributing more to the country at the end of the day??
    And if you cant afford a few cans at the end of the week hire an accountant because you're obviously terrible with money.
    Btw im not on the dole but I was once and it was awful and people who think its a holiday I hope to god you end up on it some day, it'll be a long hard fall from that high horse im afraid.


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    #56
    Rubber_Soul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Rubber_Soul


    I really can't understand some of the opinions on here. Do people think that half a million people just decided over the last few years to quit their job and become alcoholic? I can't begrudge somebody who has worked for years and been made redundant through no fault of their own a drink or two to unwind at the weekend after they've paid their bills. Alcoholic's will still find a way to get their drink, it may inconvenience them a bit but they'll get around it easily enough so what's the point of the legislation apart from appeasing a bunch of sanctimonius clowns?


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    #57
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Sinfonia wrote: »
    (As is common in AH threads) if one thinks that being unemployed and on the dole is a better life than yours, go on the dole.

    I have one housemate on the dole and he's doing financially better than the other lad. Was out every night of the Volvo ocean race. In fairness to him he is looking for work, but it's a mad country all the same.

    I worked in a pub during the boom years and you'd be shocked at how many patrons were in receipt of dole, disability etc and spent it pissing up against a wall. I don't think the unemployed should be hounded about what they spend but to pretend that everything is grand and rosy here, while heckling those wishing some sort of reform is a nonsense.


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    #58
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    People jump to all sorts of conclusions just cos someone says the idea is in principle not that bad.

    To clarify. It is impossible to do this cos you can't implement it without making someone a second class citizen with vouchers or something. But in principle, if you are able to spend above a certain amount of your welfare money on drink or bookies you obviously don't need it. Cos its not there to keep you in a certain lifestyle, its there to keep you afloat (and just that) for as short a time as possible. In theory anyway...


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    #59
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Boskowski wrote: »
    People jump to all sorts of conclusions just cos someone says the idea is in principle not that bad.

    Yeah, it's scary that some people here are advocating those unhappy with the status quo should emigrate.


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    #60
    vard
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭vard


    gaffer91 wrote: »



    When someone proposed scrapping the dole, it is difficult to take them seriously and approach the rest of their post with an open mind. But no, it is not a viable alternative.
    You haven't understood me correctly here. I was saying exactly that. Scrapping the dole is not a viable option.

    Getting drunk is not particularly expensive if you don't want it to be so "saving up" shouldn't be a problem. And people on the dole are the people who really need it.
    Nobody needs to get drunk. That's an entirely separate issue - if you feel you can't unwind or live without alcohol you have a problem. Unfortunately there are many such people with similar problems, but hey we're Irish and that's what we do. I'm not about to get into that argument though -- drinking should not be a welfare entitlement.
    Question-how much are you in favour of limiting what a jobseeker should be able to spend money on? Anything you don't consider "essential" or is it just alcohol you have a particular bee in your bonnet about?
    I believe the dole should be there to support individuals in retraining, surviving and helping them towards going back to full-term employment. The money should be spent on essentials. That might include a phone for interviews, the internet for applications and a million other things. It doeds not include Alcohol and gambling.

    Let me make it clear. I fully support the dole. I understand I might not have established that. I am fully aware that the majority of people in receipt of state benefits need every bit of it and are in no way thriving at the expense of the taxpayer. It is the growing exploitation I have a problem with, and as far as I'm concerned, spending dole money on gambling and alcohol can only be described as such.

    There are plenty more people in severe difficulty who need support. Many of these people are not entitled to benefits of any sort and are left to chug it alone. It's this disparity and the selfish attitudes of a loud-mouthed few that rile me up. "As long as I get what I want" that seems to be the general consensus.

    People need to be supported on all sides. Those on welfare and those in work - then of course the people who have been forgotten; left to go with no support. They're the ones who really need a ****ing drink.


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    #61
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    c_man wrote: »
    Yeah, it's scary that some people here are advocating those unhappy with the status quo should emigrate.

    :confused:

    Call me slow but that one I don't follow


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