AVB sacked!

kryogen · 07-03-2012 2:14am

plasmaguy wrote: »

Ah well he'd probably tell Abramovich to f*ck off on his first week on the job.

So he would be sacked within the first week, great! solves all the problems eh!

As for AVB being a puppet, yes I think so.

He was brought in to bring along a new generation of players and possibly a new style of playing.

He tried this, dropped all the old timers to the bench, brought in some younger players, as per his brief. What happens, the senior players get onto the owner and say we want a new manager.

This contradicts itself, so I have no need to bother replying.

The problem with Chelsea is and always will be a continual power struggle between the owner, manager and players. I think Mourinho in his early days was about the only one who could stand up to the owner and the players.

The players did not have the same standing at the club as they do now, they had won nothing. Since JM was RA's choice to manage the team and since he had instant success what did he have to stand up to him about? most of the squad was already in place thanks to Ranieri.

In recent years, the club has become a bit of a joke. You can't drop some players, or it could cost the manager his job or they will complain to the owner.

You can only buy players the owner approves of or likes.

You can only pick the team the way the owner likes.

You must play in a style pleasing to the owner.

Again lots of this is just wrong or irrelevant, to believe a manager will be sacked because he dropped a player is simple minded.

In most football clubs you can only buy players the owner signs off on, he does in fact write the cheque.

Only the way the owner like? again plainly wrong so no need to go further.

He would like a style that is easy on the eye yes, clubs and fans would, who doesnt! but first and foremost he wants success.

It's become a joke at this stage I'm sorry to say. All Chelsea will get now is a manager desperate for a job at any price. There is not a hope in hell Mourinho will take this job come the summer. He knows what the owner is like and how he and his puppets interfere with everything including transfers. That was the main reason Mourinho left in the first place, and that was only over 3 years ago. Mourinho ain't dumb.

JM left Chelsea almost 5 years ago (September 2007)

The interference from the owner is something I won't disagree too strongly with, but I find its more in terms of transfers than anything else, and in all fairness, the only one that was forced on a manager since Mourinho, was Torres, seemingly, though I doubt Ancelotti was that upset at getting him.

Mourinho apparently didnt want Sheva, actually its clear he didnt want Sheva, that it was the owner interfering, who else did he do it with though?

If Mourinho had assurances that he would have full control over the footballing side of things he would go back Im sure.

Back toward topic, I could see a Loew coming in, dunno why, just see him as a fit for some reason.

I think as we have seen with Madrid in the past, regardless of how ridiculous the clowns running a club are, if the club has the money and infrastructure to compete for the highest honours, top managers will still sign up.

Royale with Cheese · 07-03-2012 2:23am

What has Loew ever done? Would make no sense whatsoever.

kryogen · 07-03-2012 2:43am

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

What has Loew ever done? Would make no sense whatsoever.

To say it would make no sense is a little silly isn't it.

Him being a dark horse is a plausible theory, one that has been mentioned in the media and on the thread. Simply because you don't rate someone or think they would not be able for the job or whatever reason you see fit to dismiss him, doesnt mean the Chelsea hierarchy will think the same.

what has he ever done?

Runner up to Spain in the Euros lost 1-0, 3rd place in the WC after being beaten 1-0 by Spain in the semi.

To think he may possibly have a WC medal and Euro medal to his name but for this unbelievable spanish team is not that far a reach tbh.

Oh and Germany qualified with 12 wins from 12 for the Euros 2012.

So he is probably doing something right?

TerryTibbs! · 07-03-2012 3:28am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Could the Russian not just do the job himself?

He is. Di Matteo is a front.

PhlegmyMoses · 07-03-2012 3:31am

Big difference between the sporadic management involved with managing a national team and the day to day pressures of managing a club like Chelsea. The last manager Chelsea got in whose recent record involved NTs was Scolari and that went pretty sour pretty quick. Loew would be a gamble for any big club simply because he has never managed a top team at club level. I suppose he's as good a shout as any though because nobody else stands out.

kryogen · 07-03-2012 10:24am

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Big difference between the sporadic management involved with managing a national team and the day to day pressures of managing a club like Chelsea. The last manager Chelsea got in whose recent record involved NTs was Scolari and that went pretty sour pretty quick. Loew would be a gamble for any big club simply because he has never managed a top team at club level. I suppose he's as good a shout as any though because nobody else stands out.

Agree 100%

Loew is quite a good tactician by all accounts and was part of the conscious decision to really focus on youth with Germany. He has plenty of positives and negatives about him.

As I said, dark horse.

Nuri Sahin · 07-03-2012 12:52pm

Re: Loew. He'll stick with the national side at least to the World Cup in 2014 I reckon. He has a nucleus of massively talented and youthful Germans coming through to the NT year upon year who should be peaking around then.

Continuing on with the German theme. Can't believe no one has mentioned Klopp as a possible Chelsea target (unless I missed it

). I'll be gutted if he left BVB for Chelsea tbf, more so than AVB leaving Porto last summer. He's in a similar situation to Loew but at club level.

kryogen · 07-03-2012 1:22pm

True, he is also not a bad shout at all, I think its just cause the German league in general doesn't get as much coverage so they are not as high profile.

They certainly have ability though. And that "German Efficiency" in them

Loew has that style too

Oat23 · 07-03-2012 1:36pm

El LoCo Ade wrote: »

Continuing on with the German theme. Can't believe no one has mentioned Klopp as a possible Chelsea target (unless I missed it ). I'll be gutted if he left BVB for Chelsea tbf, more so than AVB leaving Porto last summer. He's in a similar situation to Loew but at club level.

Signed a new contract a month ago, and like the Swansea manager, he isn't silly :pac:.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 07-03-2012 2:03pm

I reckon Chelsea's next manager choice will be dictated by Romans attitude to the FPP rules.
We know Chelsea are trying to reduce costs and that Roman has signed up to try and conform to them.
Any top manager will want a big transfer kitty and high wages.

The other factors are:
CL football
Without it Chelsea will lose something like a third of their income I think?
And perhaps not be able to attract a certain type of player, although that didnt stop Man City who just offered silly wages and showed they would be buying a top team that would of course be good enough to get there sooner rather than later

Team rebuilding
Money has to be spent, but the big question again is just how much money will\can Roman spend re FPP and his own willingness to spend
Certainly everyone expects most of the old team to be gone and that will make life easier for any incoming manager to change the style like AVB tried to do

Chelsea have bought some good young players and then loaned them out, but we could still put out a pretty good team using the likes of De Bruyne, Luka etc etc - maybe not good enough straight away to win the league or anything, but good enough to compete if managed correctly and coupled with the established stars like Mata or even Torres
Of course whether Roman will wait that long is another matter

I reckon the next manager could even be a none big name, but someone the players would respect, maybe Zola with Roberto or something

We know Chelsea are also trying to build a new stadium, so spending around 400 milliion, so it doesnt look like Roman is going anywhere just yet.

He's next move is vital though and there are indications he is trying to change his hire and fire philosphy as we saw with AVB getting a much longer time before being fired because of the loss of 4th place rather than the previous reason of failing to win anything

Shame he didnt start that with Mourinho or Carlo

geeky · 07-03-2012 2:21pm

Would love someone will a well-thought out philosophy of football and a proven record of implementing it, a la Lowe. But unfortunately, the only big name managers who aren't queuing up to rule themselves out are the busted flushes.

Mourinho is an exception purely because of the history, and because he's having such a miserable time of it at the mo. Genuinely depressing stuff to see how one of the best jobs in club football has become so diminished. I reckon we should hang on through the season, maybe even until the Euro championships (while offloading the players that NEED to go), 'till we see whether people like Lowe are available.

Also, props to Di Matteo for dropping some of the veterans. They need to be put in their place, and aren't nearly so essential to Chelsea's success as they think they are.

Mr.Crinklewood · 07-03-2012 11:28pm

After the Apoel Nicosia result tonight, Ivan Jovanović is probably set to be named as Chelsea manager.

plasmaguy · 07-03-2012 11:40pm

kryogen wrote: »

So he would be sacked within the first week, great! solves all the problems eh!

This contradicts itself, so I have no need to bother replying.

There is no real contradiction there. I think you will agree that Chelsea is not a normal club. It's rare these days to have an owner with such influence over day to day footballing matters such as transfers and team selection.

Two turkeys in revent years that the owner had a strong say in were Torres and Shevchenko. Torres suited a particular style of play Liverpool had. He doesn't suit the Chelsea style it seems, so why buy him?

As for AVB, his every move was being watched in the end by the owner and advisors who would go to his press conferences and take notes, go to training sessions and go into the dressing room. It's hard for a manager to make decisions in that context. He also had to explain to Abromovich his team selections.

It has been well established that AVB was brought in on a long term contract, 4 years, to completely change the club around, that was his brief, you know that as well as I do. Abromovich had a vision for the club, and AVB was to be the man to do it. Hence why he was merely a puppet of Abromovich.

In this sense, AVB had no real power, as puppets rarely do. The real power in Chelsea lies with the owner and with the players. That's why several managers have lost their jobs now, the players kickup a stink every so often.

Most of what I am saying is not my opinion it's just well reported facts which you seem to overlook.

kryogen · 08-03-2012 12:56am

^^^

Im out.

pickarooney · 08-03-2012 10:55am

Has Hitzfeld been mentioned at all?

ronsgonawin · 08-03-2012 11:53am

"It's a footballing philosophy more than a system. A system depends on the players you have. I played 4-3-3 with Ajax, 2-3-2-3 with Barcelona and I can play 4-4-2 with AZ. I'm flexible. The philosophy stays the same though. I don't think that you can adapt it to every possible situation. You need the right mindset, and it depends on how the players see the coach and vice versa. The coach is the focal point of the team but you need to have an open mind, and so do all the players. Everyone needs to work together to achieve a common goal. Preparing your tactical formation is essential. Each player needs to know where he has to be, and that is why there needs to be mutual understanding because you need absolute discipline. This is a sport played by 22 men, and there are 11 opponents out there playing as a team. Each individual needs to know who he has to beat and be there to support his team-mates."

Thats who I think Chelsea needs. Any guesses?

PHB · 08-03-2012 12:16pm

I think the only way for Chelsea to actually get back on track is to hire a manager with a 100 million termination clause barring an end of season position lower than say 5th.

The manager has to get rid of the following players: Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Malouda, Alex, Anelka, Cahill, Ferreira.

He then needs to replace them with players on significantly lower wages. It's a mammoth task, mammoth. It will possibly lead to not getting CL football. Indeed this season, the project was started and it looked like that might happen. Now, you'll have to get a new manager and start all over again, while sticking with AVB would have probably ensured CL football next year. All round silliness from Roman.

iregk · 08-03-2012 12:34pm

PHB wrote: »

The manager has to get rid of the following players: Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Malouda, Alex, Anelka, Cahill, Ferreira.

Nice to see you're keeping up with current affairs. Alex is now playing with PSG and Anelka with Shanghai. Drogba has all but left Chelsea and agreed a deal with Guangzhou to join them in the summer after his contract expires at the end of June.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 08-03-2012 12:35pm

plasmaguy wrote: »

There is no real contradiction there. I think you will agree that Chelsea is not a normal club. It's rare these days to have an owner with such influence over day to day footballing matters such as transfers and team selection.

Two turkeys in revent years that the owner had a strong say in were Torres and Shevchenko. Torres suited a particular style of play Liverpool had. He doesn't suit the Chelsea style it seems, so why buy him?

As for AVB, his every move was being watched in the end by the owner and advisors who would go to his press conferences and take notes, go to training sessions and go into the dressing room. It's hard for a manager to make decisions in that context. He also had to explain to Abromovich his team selections.

It has been well established that AVB was brought in on a long term contract, 4 years, to completely change the club around, that was his brief, you know that as well as I do. Abromovich had a vision for the club, and AVB was to be the man to do it. Hence why he was merely a puppet of Abromovich.

In this sense, AVB had no real power, as puppets rarely do. The real power in Chelsea lies with the owner and with the players. That's why several managers have lost their jobs now, the players kickup a stink every so often.

Most of what I am saying is not my opinion it's just well reported facts which you seem to overlook.

It was a 3 year contract, not 4 years

Roman liked AVB's high scoring attacking winning Porto team, scoring 135 goals but failed to notice they also conceded a lot of goals 36
Compare that to his time at Chelsea, goals scored 47, conceded 32
City by contrast have only conceded 19 goals whilst scoring 69

AVB's Porto relied on attacking wingers. Chelsea only really have Malouda as a proper winger
IMO AVB didnt have the players to play his Porto way that Roman demanded and he only eventually switched back to Mourinhos 4-3-3 as previous managers such as Carlo had to.

Untill AVB had the his own players in key positions, it was never going to work

kryogen · 08-03-2012 12:47pm

ronsgonawin wrote: »

"It's a footballing philosophy more than a system. A system depends on the players you have. I played 4-3-3 with Ajax, 2-3-2-3 with Barcelona and I can play 4-4-2 with AZ. I'm flexible. The philosophy stays the same though. I don't think that you can adapt it to every possible situation. You need the right mindset, and it depends on how the players see the coach and vice versa. The coach is the focal point of the team but you need to have an open mind, and so do all the players. Everyone needs to work together to achieve a common goal. Preparing your tactical formation is essential. Each player needs to know where he has to be, and that is why there needs to be mutual understanding because you need absolute discipline. This is a sport played by 22 men, and there are 11 opponents out there playing as a team. Each individual needs to know who he has to beat and be there to support his team-mates."

Thats who I think Chelsea needs. Any guesses?

That Van Gaal statement is doing the rounds a fair bit on the net lately

ronsgonawin · 08-03-2012 1:09pm

kryogen wrote: »

That Van Gaal statement is doing the rounds a fair bit on the net lately

Is it? Still think that he could be the best option for chelsea at this stage as I really dont think Jose or pep will come.

kryogen · 08-03-2012 1:13pm

I'm just not a LVG fan for some reason, so with that in mind, I wouldn't mind seeing him become the next Chelsea manager

plasmaguy · 08-03-2012 1:46pm

I don't think Loew would work either.

Ideally they will be looking for someone with significant club management experience at the highest level.

Taking on Loew would be as big of a gamble and bigger than AVB. They tried the international manager before, Scolari. Now maybe Scolari had a lot of experience of club management before Portugal and Brazil, but still it's probably hard to get back to the day to day.

But Loew has no club management experience.

Abramovich has money to spend but even he isn't stupid enough to try an untested club manager. I might work, but it also might be a disaster, so I doubt he will gamble.

I still think if they can't get mourinho back which they won't, Benitez looks a good bet, while the dark horse for me would be Capello, who has won the European Cup a few times and was a very good club manager.

kryogen · 08-03-2012 2:05pm

Loew does have club management experience.

I wouldnt say it is exemplary, but he does actually have it, he has won a trophy and finished 4th in the Bundesliga with Stuttgart, led a team to the Austrian championship iirc but the club went bankrupt not too long after, dont think it was anything to do with him though.

He has been at 6 clubs a google search said

plasmaguy · 08-03-2012 2:15pm

Fair enough I didn't know that, it at least boosts his chances.

AVB sacked!

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