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Corolla Twincams, Overrated/overvalued?

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    #62
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,958 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    What anything is worth is where demand and supply meet. Nothing to do with how "good" or "legend" a car is. Not many twincams for sale, plenty of enthusiasts about, so prices are high and for an objective outside observer these cars do not look like good value for money
    davycc wrote: »
    4 valves per cylinder was state of the art from the racing world in the ae86

    Of course! Japan's finest engineers always bring these great new innovations to the world.


    Not. Twin cam / multi valve are well over a hundred years old technologies and invented in Europe. As was pretty much every other major invention in automotive technologies.


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    #63
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    millington wrote: »
    Hachiroku is Japanese for 86. The car in question is still an AE86 whether a coupe or a booter.

    Anyway this things for sale a long long time. Looks like a right ****ter, might be handy for spares but since it's not sold I don't think it will any time soon.

    There is also an AE85. The same choice of body styles but with a single cam 1.5l engine, no LSD, and drums on the back. I think it was jap market only, but open to correction.


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    #64
    Tony Beetroot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Tony Beetroot


    That twin cam in the op is only worth a bag of sand the most. some lads living in imagination land thinking its worth near its asking price.


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    #65
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    power pants wrote: »
    its never going to sell for that amount or even for free to be honest. I think some people should just accept they might have been wrong on this one
    power pants wrote: »
    that it is still for sale?:confused:

    sorry, you must have misunderstood me. i'm wondering how you came to the rock solid fact that it's never going to sell, or even be taken for free. by the rational you suggested above, it would be fair that you assume every unsold car in every classified add "will never sell" because it is still for sale. this logic seems stupid and i'm sure you are not stupid, so i'm genuinely curious as to how you deduced that the Corolla is fully sale proof.
    rizzodun wrote: »
    I texted him last week, got no reply, so it might not be for sale anymore, and the lazy sod didn't bother to take it down.
    rizzodun wrote: »
    Didn't notice that, if he's waiting for me to ring he'll be waitin!

    he'l be waiting because you probably haven't any intention of buying it. in fairness i'd say he gets a lot of daydreamer texts about his €2k twincam. if you were interested in buying and restoring it, why didn't you call? just out of curiosity :)
    unkel wrote: »
    Of course! Japan's finest engineers always bring these great new innovations to the world.


    Not. Twin cam / multi valve are well over a hundred years old technologies and invented in Europe. As was pretty much every other major invention in automotive technologies.

    i don't think anyone suggested that the multi valve head was pioneered in Japan in the 80's.

    The suggestion, at least the one that i made was that it was nicknamed the "twin-cam" because in 1984, having 4 valves per cylinder (along with TVIS and electronic fuel injection) in a Corolla (a car that people are generally very quick to call mundane) was probably a bit more exciting back then than it sounds now.

    Than and from Toyotas point of view, i believe that the 4A-GE was originally designed to be an 8v unit, but after close to 2 years of extra R&D with Yamaha to maximize the engines performance, they decided, amongst other things, upon making it a 16v unit which was to debut in Toyotas 1984 MY Corollas and Celicas, so i'd say there was a certain amount of pride as well as marketing attached to writing "twin-cam" down the side of the cars.

    I'm sure it was neccessary to show their competence versus their rivals at the time. now, i could be very wrong as i think my parents hadn't even met in 1984, but i assume it would have been up against (in Europe) MK1 Golf GTi? Escort XR3i? Astra GTE? The Corolla made 118bhp and a quick google tells me that the Mk1 GTi made 100bhp and the N/A XR3i made 105bhp and as you would be so quick to point out if the shoe was on the other foot were both transversely mounted and "wrong wheel drive".


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    #66
    power pants
    Registered Users Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭power pants


    nothing more to add, its a rusty metal with no engine in it. Perhaps one of the people on here who think it is worth the cash or similar will make a bid for it and be driving it around ireland soon.


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    #67
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    One would have to bear in mind that what is for sale in the ad is not a complete car, but pretty much a very tatty body shell.
    So you to take into account hours of bodywork, a complete respray, new engine and gearbox, brakes and suspension and a complete interior.
    Add that up, if you want to do it right, you're struggling at 20k and that is for mostly DIY.


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    #68
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    power pants wrote: »
    nothing more to add, its a rusty metal with no engine in it. Perhaps one of the people on here who think it is worth the cash or similar will make a bid for it and be driving it around ireland soon.

    your post offered nothing to add in the first place.

    I think some people should just accept they might have been wrong on this one unless they can back up what they are claiming :).

    Without wishing to go around in circles, it's obviously a tatty shell with no engine, it doesn't take a mechanic to realise that, but with fully restored examples starting at €10,000+ it's hardly an unreasonable valuation. as with any used car advert, nobody is going to pay the asking price, it's there to be haggled with, i'd be very sure you could turn up with €1500 and buy it. I'm sure in time it'll sell, it just needs a buyer with €5-10k spare cash, lots of time, skill and no external commitments, which isn't everybody.


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    #69
    power pants
    Registered Users Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭power pants


    nothing to add except to have a differing viewpoint from yourself?

    I would buy it if I was as a sure as the rest of the people on here about it being a solid investment but I know its definitely not that


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    #70
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    power pants wrote: »
    nothing to add except to have a differing viewpoint from yourself?

    I would buy it if I was as a sure as the rest of the people on here about it being a solid investment but I know its definitely not that

    No car is a solid investment.

    The type of person to buy this will have a twin cam already with the body crashed or too far gone to repair. No-one will buy it with a view to building a car from scratch.


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    #71
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    power pants wrote: »
    nothing to add except to have a differing viewpoint from yourself?

    not at all. the reason i enjoy this motoring forum is to read different viewpoints and better understand "cars" in general.

    but if a poster is making big sweeping generalisations that they can't back up with one single fact as to why they said what they said and when they are questioned on it resort to "nothing more to add, its a rusty metal with no engine in it", i do have to wonder, what the point of them posting at all was; just to make noise?


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    #72
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    pablo128 wrote: »
    No car is a solid investment.

    The type of person to buy this will have a twin cam already with the body crashed or too far gone to repair. No-one will buy it with a view to building a car from scratch.

    in fairness and i'm only trying to see the upside of it. it's a complete car aside from the engine and gearbox according to the add. it's relatively easy to pick up a gearbox for one of these and childs play to pick up an engine for <€600.

    so really it's a bodywork resto, and then just replacing some consumables, brakes, wheels, tyres etc.

    i assume (a dangerous thing to do) that the seller clearly knows his Toyotas, looking in the photos i can clearly see an altezza, 3x ae111's a gen5 and gen 6 celica, what looks like another ae86 and some others, so he knows what he has, to some extent.


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    #73
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    I take your point.
    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    your post offered nothing to add in the first place.

    I think some people should just accept they might have been wrong on this one unless they can back up what they are claiming :).

    Without wishing to go around in circles, it's obviously a tatty shell with no engine, it doesn't take a mechanic to realise that, but with fully restored examples starting at €10,000+ it's hardly an unreasonable valuation. as with any used car advert, nobody is going to pay the asking price, it's there to be haggled with, i'd be very sure you could turn up with €1500 and buy it. I'm sure in time it'll sell, it just needs a buyer with €5-10k spare cash, lots of time, skill and no external commitments, which isn't everybody.

    But as I said
    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    One would have to bear in mind that what is for sale in the ad is not a complete car, but pretty much a very tatty body shell.
    So you to take into account hours of bodywork, a complete respray, new engine and gearbox, brakes and suspension and a complete interior.
    Add that up, if you want to do it right, you're struggling at 20k and that is for mostly DIY.

    If you think you can buy this ball of scrap for it's existing asking price, put in engine, gearbox, half a mile of MIG wire, panels, paint, interior, rims, well basically everything bar the naked bodyshell and do it for LESS than 10k, then I would very much suspect that you have never restored a car or have the foggiest about the costs involved.
    Or you could go the scrap route, paint it with rattle cans, put in an engine from a donor car, cobble together an interior and do it all yourself in your shed, yes, then you could possibly do it for all in 10k, but if you think the result will be worth 10k, you would have to be mad.


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    #74
    power pants
    Registered Users Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭power pants


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    not at all. the reason i enjoy this motoring forum is to read different viewpoints and better understand "cars" in general.

    but if a poster is making big sweeping generalisations that they can't back up with one single fact as to why they said what they said and when they are questioned on it resort to "nothing more to add, its a rusty metal with no engine in it", i do have to wonder, what the point of them posting at all was; just to make noise?

    we will just have to wait and see, so far my sweeping generalisations are proving to be correct as the ad is still there but yes you are correct too maybe it will be sold for that price in time if someone else believes it is a bargain too


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    #75
    rizzodun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,598 ✭✭✭rizzodun


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »

    he'l be waiting because you probably haven't any intention of buying it. in fairness i'd say he gets a lot of daydreamer texts about his €2k twincam. if you were interested in buying and restoring it, why didn't you call? just out of curiosity :)

    You're right, I haven't any intention of buying it but only as I don't have the cash to spare, I do think it'd be a good track day car/rally car project if got cheap enough, and I'm sure there'd be wiggle room on the price. When I text I did ask genuine questions, condition of chassis, where the car orginated from, and a few other questions I can't remember right now, but basically ringing him would have been a waste of time as, a quick text, takes 2 mins, from him to confirm one or two points just might get him a call back, even if not from me. I was mainly curious if it had been sold, saying that, if I had the money.... Booters aren't that common here either.


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    #76
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Still up anyway. I just realised it says:
    no time waters

    I wonder what it could mean.


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    #77
    dgt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭dgt


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Still up anyway. I just realised it says:



    I wonder what it could mean.

    His waters haven't broke.

    Lets all pitch in and buy it as a community project, for the communal showers


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    #78
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Ad gone, was it sold? Will we ever know? Has anyone seen it drive around? :pac::D


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    #79
    millington
    Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭millington


    pablo128 wrote: »
    There is also an AE85. The same choice of body styles but with a single cam 1.5l engine, no LSD, and drums on the back. I think it was jap market only, but open to correction.
    You're right, and the AE86 was offered in the US as a 1.5 aswell as a Corolla SR5 but still went by the AE86 chassis code.


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