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The Confederate flag - STFU

  • 25-06-2015 1:26am
    #1
    MakeEmLaugh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭


    Does anyone else wish that the American media - and American politicians - would shut the fuck up about the Confederate flag?

    First, the Governor of South Carolina, Nikki Haley, called for it to be removed from the State House grounds.

    Then Walmart - a company whose policy towards its staff and their unions has been anything but ethical - announced it would no longer sell items with the Confederate flag on them.

    Amazon, eBay, Etsy, Sears, Target and Google followed suit.

    Sorry, billion-dollar companies, but your empty gesture and crocodile tears will do nothing to resurrect the corpses of the 9 people who were shot dead in Charleston last week.

    How about, instead of banning a piece of cloth, you stop selling guns and bullets?

    Didn't think so.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,567 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Knee jerk bans and laws are certainly the best recourse after a tragedy.


  • #3
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    This is the flag that should invoke outrage.

    th?id=JN.MyCHV%2fLKJvw4oS1HxUcWzg&pid=15.1&P=0

    Not some battle flag.


  • #4
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    First, the Governor of South Carolina, Nikki Haley, called for it to be removed from the State House grounds.

    No, She was very far from the first.

    People have been trying to get it removed for decades.


  • #5
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Knee jerk bans and laws are certainly the best recourse after a tragedy.

    :confused:

    It isnt knee jerk.

    And it isnt even a "ban". You can still cover your house in it if you like.

    But it isnt the state flag. There's no reason to have it flying over the state capitol.


  • #6
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    How about, instead of banning a piece of cloth,

    :confused:

    It hasnt been banned.

    :confused:


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  • #7
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,567 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    :confused:

    It isnt knee jerk.

    And it isnt even a "ban". You can still cover your house in it if you like.

    But it isnt the state flag. There's no reason to have it flying over the state capitol.

    I was referring to the gun control stuff. I can't understand why states are permitted to fly a traitor's flag, to me that flag in anathema to everything that the US stands for as a nation.


  • #8
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    I was referring to the gun control stuff. I can't understand why states are permitted to fly a traitor's flag, to me that flag in anathema to everything that the US stands for as a nation.

    Apologies.

    :o

    I agree.

    I'm solidly against its display, it really is (has become) a symbol of hate and bigotry and I'm afraid to say the people who are staunchly defending it...well... lets just be charitable and say they hold some very old school values.

    And it may be time for those who hold such "values" to show a little flexibility towards their fellow citizens.


  • #9
    MakeEmLaugh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    No, She was very far from the first.

    People have been trying to get it removed for decades.
    InTheTrees wrote: »
    :confused:

    It hasnt been banned.

    :confused:

    I was speaking about Walmart, a company so revolting and unethical there is currently a 9,000 word article online listing only criticisms of it.

    The idea that anyone should follow their lead on matters of conscience is not only absurd, it's offensive.

    I couldn't give a fuck if the flag is banned from Walmart or Amazon (which it has been, sorry I have to repeat myself).

    All this horseshit about the Confederate flag is a distraction from the real problem with the United States - its Second Amendment.


  • #10
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    I was speaking about Walmart, a company so revolting and unethical there is currently a 9,000 word article online listing only criticisms of it.

    The idea that anyone should follow their lead on matters of conscience is not only absurd, it's offensive.

    I couldn't give a fuck if the flag is banned from Walmart or Amazon (which it has been, sorry I have to repeat myself).

    All this horseshit about the Confederate flag is a distraction from the real problem with the United States - its Second Amendment.


    There's nothing wrong with the 2d amendment. The problem is how it's stretched so far.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #11
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    I suppose "banned" is kind of an odd choice of words when they choose not to sell something. Even under pressure.

    But yeah, second amendment is the elephant in the room. And the stranglehold the NRA holds over most politicians.


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  • #12
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Brian? wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with the 2d amendment. The problem is how it's stretched so far.

    Where are all these "well regulated militias" everyone should be members of?


  • #13
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Small steps first. The Conservative mindset is programmed to reject change. Their acceptance of this change should be celebrated.


  • #14
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Where are all these "well regulated militias" everyone should be members of?

    We're right here. Ready, willing and able to serve. Well, those of us that believe the US Constitution is more than just a piece of paper, that is. Many of us can even bring our own gear. :)


  • #15
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Small steps first. The Conservative mindset is programmed to reject change. Their acceptance of this change should be celebrated.
    No, we crave change. The country has been going in the wrong direction for the last 6 years now. The shift left hasn't helped the average citizen and a move to slightly right of center is needed.


  • #16
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Amerika wrote: »
    No, we crave change. The country has been going in the wrong direction for the last 6 years now. The shift left hasn't helped the average citizen and a move to slightly right of center is needed.

    Damn socialists.

    Conservatives by and large dislike progress and the trajectory of a once progressive party has been halted by fear. Anyone who prescribes to "conservative values" a la confederate flag, inability to distinguish right wing terrorism, build a wall on the border, supporter of the numerous clown car politicians are not only embarrassing to themselves but also the species.


  • #17
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    I was referring to the gun control stuff. I can't understand why states are permitted to fly a traitor's flag, to me that flag in anathema to everything that the US stands for as a nation.

    It is not a traitors flag and although it has been hijacked by hate groups it also represents a very strong view in US politics which is that of the right of the state verses the right of the federal government. The flag itself was never even the flag of the CSA rather a battle flag used for identifying and rallying groups of troops.


  • #18
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Apologies.

    :o

    I agree.

    I'm solidly against its display, it really is (has become) a symbol of hate and bigotry and I'm afraid to say the people who are staunchly defending it...well... lets just be charitable and say they hold some very old school values.

    And it may be time for those who hold such "values" to show a little flexibility towards their fellow citizens.

    I am going to defend it as will many others interested in the American civil war. Why should it be banned just because hate groups hijack it? If isis started adopting the shamrock would you ban that? Banning nazi symbols in Germany hasn't stopped right wing extremists neo nazi groups.

    The answer is education not banning, it is part of Americas and the southern states heritage. There is a museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, should that be closed as several original Confederate battle flags are on view there? The real question to be addressed here is 150 years after the civil war why is America still one of the most racist and marginalised countries in the world?


  • #19
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Apologies.

    :o

    I agree.

    I'm solidly against its display, it really is (has become) a symbol of hate and bigotry and I'm afraid to say the people who are staunchly defending it...well... lets just be charitable and say they hold some very old school values.

    And it may be time for those who hold such "values" to show a little flexibility towards their fellow citizens.

    I am going to defend it as will many others interested in the American civil war. Why should it be banned just because hate groups hijack it? If isis started adopting the shamrock would you ban that? Banning nazi symbols in Germany hasn't stopped right wing extremists neo nazi groups.

    The answer is education not banning, it is part of Americas and the southern states heritage. There is a museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, should that be closed as several original Confederate battle flags are on view there? The real question to be addressed here is 150 years after the civil war why is America still one of the most racist and marginalised countries in the world?


  • #20
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Ed_Stephens wrote: »
    I am going to defend it as will many others interested in the American civil war. Why should it be banned just because hate groups hijack it? If isis started adopting the shamrock would you ban that? Banning nazi symbols in Germany hasn't stopped right wing extremists neo nazi groups.

    The answer is education not banning, it is part of Americas and the southern states heritage. There is a museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, should that be closed as several original Confederate battle flags are on view there? The real question to be addressed here is 150 years after the civil war why is America still one of the most racist and marginalised countries in the world?

    Its not being banned.

    They're not going to fly it from the state capitol.


  • #21
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Ed_Stephens wrote: »
    The real question to be addressed here is 150 years after the civil war why is America still one of the most racist and marginalised countries in the world?

    Exactly.

    This is long overdue. Removing symbols of hate and bigotry are part of that process.


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  • #22
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,567 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Ed_Stephens wrote: »
    It is not a traitors flag and although it has been hijacked by hate groups it also represents a very strong view in US politics which is that of the right of the state verses the right of the federal government. The flag itself was never even the flag of the CSA rather a battle flag used for identifying and rallying groups of troops.

    Eh, pretty sure seceding from the Union and initiating the bloodiest war in the nation's history, largely over the right to maintain slavery, falls under the definition of treason.


  • #23
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Ed_Stephens wrote: »
    I am going to defend it as will many others interested in the American civil war. Why should it be banned just because hate groups hijack it? If isis started adopting the shamrock would you ban that? Banning nazi symbols in Germany hasn't stopped right wing extremists neo nazi groups.

    The answer is education not banning, it is part of Americas and the southern states heritage. There is a museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, should that be closed as several original Confederate battle flags are on view there? The real question to be addressed here is 150 years after the civil war why is America still one of the most racist and marginalised countries in the world?

    You do know the primary reason for the Civil War? The flag that the rednecks like waving only became popular during the Civil rights movement also. The flag is a blatantly racist symbol.


  • #24
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Amerika wrote: »
    We're right here. Ready, willing and able to serve.

    What well regulated militia are you a member of?

    And being 'well regulated' one assumes your militia train regularly with the regular army?


  • #25
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Exactly.

    This is long overdue. Removing symbols of hate and bigotry are part of that process.

    No removing so called symbols of hate will only toughen the hard line extreme stance. People need to realise the flag is not the so called rebel flag and be aware of its true historical origin and function. Pretending it doesn't exist solves nothing.


  • #26
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Eh, pretty sure seceding from the Union and initiating the bloodiest war in the nation's history, largely over the right to maintain slavery, falls under the definition of treason.

    It depends on your point of view. Many who fought and led the CSA believed they had a higher duty to their state rather than the Union. The right to secede from the union was primary in their minds and not treasonous to them. In the same way that the 1916 rising leaders were seen as treasonous to the British but patriots to the Irish.


  • #27
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    You do know the primary reason for the Civil War? The flag that the rednecks like waving only became popular during the Civil rights movement also. The flag is a blatantly racist symbol.

    I have studied the American civil war a lot and am well aware of the many reasons as to why it started. Don't forget the emancipation proclamation was only announced in 1863 two years after the war started.

    The flag itself is not racist, it has been hijacked by hate groups like the swastiki. In my view they have no right to wave the flag. Like I said people should be educated as to its origin and not just the kkk types who claim it. Rednecks is somewhat of a racist term and very inaccurate.


  • #28
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Exactly.

    This is long overdue. Removing symbols of hate and bigotry are part of that process.

    No removing so called symbols of hate will only toughen the hard line extreme stance. People need to realise the flag is not the so called rebel flag and be aware of its true historical origin and function. Pretending it doesn't exist solves nothing.


  • #29
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Ed_Stephens wrote: »
    I have studied the American civil war a lot and am well aware of the many reasons as to why it started. Don't forget the emancipation proclamation was only announced in 1863 two years after the war started.

    The flag itself is not racist, it has been hijacked by hate groups like the swastiki. In my view they have no right to wave the flag. Like I said people should be educated as to its origin and not just the kkk types who claim it. Rednecks is somewhat of a racist term and very inaccurate.

    The flag itself was never actually used during the war. It became popularised during the Civil Rights Movement when different states adopted it. Funnily enough it was those states which fiercely rejected the Civil Rights Movements. You are either being purposefully obtuse or are ignorant of history.


  • #30
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Ed_Stephens wrote: »
    People need to realise the flag is not the so called rebel flag and be aware of its true historical origin and function. Pretending it doesn't exist solves nothing.

    uh huh.

    Just like we can convince people the swastika is just a happy Buddhist symbol?

    Unfortunately the flag has been co-opted by the racists and its been like that for a good thirty or forty years now, while activists have agitated for its removal.

    So the historians and civil war enthusiasts have had plenty of time to convince the public that it still warrants public display just because of its historical value.

    I dont think anyone is pretending it doesnt exist.


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  • #31
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Ed_Stephens wrote: »
    No removing so called symbols of hate will only toughen the hard line extreme stance.

    A hard liner just murdered 9 people in a church.

    Upsetting the "hard liners" (racists) is really not a major concern.

    :confused:


  • #32
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Amerika wrote: »
    We're right here. Ready, willing and able to serve. Well, those of us that believe the US Constitution is more than just a piece of paper, that is. Many of us can even bring our own gear. :)

    Perfect example of the right wing mindset.

    Quoting the constitution (which they only have a scant understand of) while also hinting that they have guns.

    This is the kind of thinly disguised threat minorities in the south have had to put up with since the end of segregation. And why the flag needs to be removed.

    Creepy.

    Its like Ian paisleys crew marching around waving gun licences.

    Luckily these people are dying out quickly.

    :eek:


  • #33
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Perfect example of the right wing mindset.

    Quoting the constitution (which they only have a scant understand of) while also hinting that they have guns.

    This is the kind of thinly disguised threat minorities in the south have had to put up with since the end of segregation. And why the flag needs to be removed.

    Creepy.

    Its like Ian paisleys crew marching around waving gun licences.

    Luckily these people are dying out quickly.

    :eek:

    This post couldn’t be further from the truth.

    Having guns supports the definition and the purpose of a militia as is noted in the US Constitution.
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    And, I feel fine. :) As a matter of fact the number of gun owners here increases every year.


  • #34
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,751 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    The flag itself was never actually used during the war. It became popularised during the Civil Rights Movement when different states adopted it. Funnily enough it was those states which fiercely rejected the Civil Rights Movements. You are either being purposefully obtuse or are ignorant of history.

    Seriously? It's the battle flag of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. It was first received by his troops on November 28, 1861.

    It was designed by William Porcher Miles, the chairman of the Flag and Seal committee

    The same flag was also used as the Second Confederate Navy Jack, from 1863–1865.

    "You are either being purposefully obtuse or are ignorant of history."


  • #35
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    And being 'well regulated' one assumes your militia train regularly with the regular army?

    You are thinking in today's English, with the idea that a "well regulated" implies training by the government


    At the time the Constitution was ratified….
    The overriding purpose of the Framers in guaranteeing the right of the people to keep and bear arms was as a check on the standing army, which the Constitution gave the Congress the power to "raise and support."

    Thus, the well regulated militia necessary to the security of a free state was a militia that might someday fight against a standing army raised and supported by a tyrannical national government. Obviously, for that reason, the Framers did not say "A Militia well regulated by the Congress, being necessary to the security of a free State" -- because a militia so regulated might not be separate enough from, or free enough from, the national government, in the sense of both physical and operational control, to preserve the "security of a free State."

    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm


  • #36
    Tugboats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭Tugboats


    Politicians:o

    hillary-confederate-flag.jpg


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  • #37
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    Seriously? It's the battle flag of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. It was first received by his troops on November 28, 1861.

    It was designed by William Porcher Miles, the chairman of the Flag and Seal committee

    The same flag was also used as the Second Confederate Navy Jack, from 1863–1865.

    "You are either being purposefully obtuse or are ignorant of history."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

    The confederate flag that has been popularised today is a variation of the three originals. It was popularised during the Civil Rights Movement. Take a look at the wiki page.


  • #38
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Damn socialists.

    Conservatives by and large dislike progress and the trajectory of a once progressive party has been halted by fear. Anyone who prescribes to "conservative values" a la confederate flag, inability to distinguish right wing terrorism, build a wall on the border, supporter of the numerous clown car politicians are not only embarrassing to themselves but also the species.

    Do you have ANYTHING to back up this hateful rant, other than the build a wall thing... which, by the way, 63% of the population supports?


  • #39
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,751 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

    The confederate flag that has been popularised today is a variation of the three originals. It was popularised during the Civil Rights Movement. Take a look at the wiki page.

    From your link...
    The "Confederate flag"

    Designed by William Porcher Miles, the chairman of the Flag and Seal committee, a now-popular variant of the Confederate flag was rejected as the national flag in 1861. It was instead adopted as a battle flag by the Army of Northern Virginia under General Lee.[30] Despite never having historically represented the CSA as a country nor officially recognized as one of the national flags, it is commonly referred to as "the Confederate Flag" and has become a widely recognized symbol of the American south.[31] It is also known as the rebel flag, Dixie flag, and Southern cross and is often incorrectly referred to as the "Stars and Bars" (the actual "Stars and Bars" is the first national flag, which used an entirely different design).[32] The self-declared Confederate enclave of Town Line, New York, lacking a genuine Confederate flag, flew a version of this flag prior to its 1946 vote to ceremonially rejoin the Union.


  • #40
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    From your link...

    Yes and it was popularised during the Civil Rights Movement. It never represented the Confederacy (which wanted to keep slavery alive). The other three flags were the important ones. It was used to demonstrate a refusal to end segregation. It is inherently racist.


  • #41
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Amerika wrote: »
    Do you have ANYTHING to back up this hateful rant, other than the build a wall thing... which, by the way, 63% of the population supports?

    Yes there are plenty of studies on genetics and political orientation. I don't hate conservatives on the contrary I'm empathetic to their mannerisms. It's when they cause misery to others that annoys me.


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  • #42
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,751 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Yes and it was popularised during the Civil Rights Movement. It never represented the Confederacy (which wanted to keep slavery alive). The other three flags were the important ones. It was used to demonstrate a refusal to end segregation. It is inherently racist.


    But why did you say it was never used during the Civil War and criticise a poster of being ignorant? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96020707&postcount=29


  • #43
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    But why did you say it was never used during the Civil War and criticise a poster of being ignorant? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96020707&postcount=29

    It was never used to represent the Confederacy offically. So anybody justifying the Civil War on "State's rights" (which is equally ludicrious) and thereby justifying the flag are wrong. The flag as we know it today was popularised during the Civil Rights Movement and prior to that it was not considered relevant to the Confederacy as a whole. That is what people actually associate it with even if they have walled that fact off from themselves.

    It is a very underhanded way of pretending the flag is not a symbol of discrimination and hate and needs to be called out.


  • #44
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Let's not forget it was adopted by Strom Thurmmond and his Dixiecrats in their effort to counter (or more accurately, brutalise and destroy) the civil rights movement.


  • #45
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    We're right here. Ready, willing and able to serve. Well, those of us that believe the US Constitution is more than just a piece of paper, that is. Many of us can even bring our own gear. :)

    Why aren't you serving then?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #46
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    Why aren't you serving then?

    As of now the US Congress had determined the reserve militia are part of the unorganized militia defined by the Militia Act of 1903 as consisting of every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who is not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia.

    Therefore every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age are considered part of the militia.

    Dang Congress thinks I’m too old now for the militia, and the military service didn't like the fact that I had my spine reconstructed after a car accident. But I was and am still willing to help if and when needed. I might not move so fast, but I can track and shoot with the best of them. ;)


  • #47
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Amerika wrote: »
    Having guns supports the definition and the purpose of a militia as is noted in the US Constitution.

    Okay...So f'ing what?

    Why bring up the fact in a conversation about removing a racist symbol from a state capitol, except as a threat?

    Dont you think that african americans may also own guns and may also support current gun laws? And may also oppose the display of the flag?

    Creepy.


  • #48
    eire4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,769 ✭✭✭eire4


    The bigoted symbol that is the confederate flag only first appeared over the state capital in South Carolina in the early 1960's when the civil rights movement was emerging. Not a coincidence in my opinion.
    The claims that it represents "heritage" remind me very much of the kind of claims you hear from the Orange Order wanting to force July 12th marches through Nationalist areas. The flag has nothing to do with southern heritage well at least not in any positive way. It is a symbol of bigotry and should be nowhere near any state capital building or any other public building.
    The confederate flag is also part of the official state flag of Mississippi. In 2001 a referendum to redesign the state flag without the confederate portion was convincingly defeated 64-36%.That needs to change. That a US state gives in a way official sanction to a bigoted symbol on its state flag is wrong to put it mildly and that needs to change.


  • #49
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Okay...So f'ing what?

    Why bring up the fact in a conversation about removing a racist symbol from a state capitol, except as a threat?

    Dont you think that african americans may also own guns and may also support current gun laws? And may also oppose the display of the flag?

    Creepy.
    Was it me that brought guns or the 2nd Amendment into this conservation? You might want to check that.

    Of course blacks have guns and support the US Constitution. My black neighbor 3 doors down from me has plenty. He even instructs pistol and archery, and was a archery coach on the US Olympic team. His views are like mine. People can't find jobs... OMG THE FLAG. International affairs are in the crapper... OMG THE FLAG. Iran is trying to get the bomb and we're helping them to get it... OMG THE FLAG. We're spending $1 Trillion more each year than we bring in... OMG THE FLAG. He's a great guy! :)


  • #50
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    The flag itself was never actually used during the war. It became popularised during the Civil Rights Movement when different states adopted it. Funnily enough it was those states which fiercely rejected the Civil Rights Movements. You are either being purposefully obtuse or are ignorant of history.

    If you mean that it was never used as the flag of the CSA then I agree and pointed that out in a previous post. Your obtuse and ignorent comment is totally out of line. A student of history must learn to examine all points of view and not just the ones you agree with and especially read the points of view that challange your opinion.


    If you are of the opinion that only racist rednecks support the display of the flag and all the people against it are nice smiley liberals then you need to do some more research. You could start with the museum of the Confederacy which has Confederate battle flags predating the civil rights movement by about a 100 years which rebukes your comment that the flag was never used during the war.


  • #51
    Ed_Stephens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Ed_Stephens


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    uh huh.

    Just like we can convince people the swastika is just a happy Buddhist symbol?

    Unfortunately the flag has been co-opted by the racists and its been like that for a good thirty or forty years now, while activists have agitated for its removal.

    So the historians and civil war enthusiasts have had plenty of time to convince the public that it still warrants public display just because of its historical value.

    I dont think anyone is pretending it doesnt exist.

    Yes we should continue to educate people about the swastika, why let the haters hijack symbols that are nothing to do with their hste? In Asia you will see lots of Buddhist statues with swastikas I don't think for one second they should be removed to appease the offendee by everything brigade.


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