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chivalry - yes or no?

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    #152
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    My mother does that too for me. I wouldnt call her chivalrous. And I woud do that for anyone I was with who was burdened with luggage. I would think any other way is just mean. I have a friend who grew up in Berkely with a very feminist mother, who wont help any woman with their luggage because he thinks it's disrespectful to do so, as it implies she is unable to do this herself, after all there is nothing in this world a man can do that a woman can't.

    I also stand up for people weaker than me, mostly children who I see getting pushed around in the playground. Why do I do this? Because they cannot stand up for themselves. Does this make me chivalrous? God I hope not.

    To label behavior chivalrous is to attach to it, romantic undertones. Without the romantic undertones, it is basically, consideration for people weaker or more burdened than you are.

    Furthermore, a lot of the detail being put forth here, like letting women go before you through a door, or pulling a chair out, or walking behind her while she ascends a stair, also has it's motives in watching her from behind. Its as much about surveillance as it is about kindness.

    Don't get me wrong, I am by no means anti-chivalry, but lets not pretend it isnt rooted [rooted does not mean it equals btw Thaed] in seduction and gender.

    What we see nowadays is chivalry "light", small tokens which gesture towards something more archetypely about the chase, pursuit, hunt and capture.

    Yawn.
    In the words of kevin smith,bull**** posturing.

    Boo hoo. Maybe yore friend whos mom is a feminist is just lazy and doesn't want to help someone.

    Its a pretty sad excuse,oh,helping someone is insulting them. Bah.


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    #153
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Nerin wrote: »
    Yawn.
    In the words of kevin smith,bull**** posturing.

    Boo hoo. Maybe yore friend whos mom is a feminist is just lazy and doesn't want to help someone.

    Its a pretty sad excuse,oh,helping someone is insulting them. Bah.

    When I was working for Columbia University, they would have events for some of their older alumni, harking back to the 30s. I had suggested someone be there at the bottom of the huge steps in case someone needed help. I was accused of ageism.

    PC has made us lose all perspective.


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    #154
    Anti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,401 ✭✭✭✭Anti


    I wish you women would make your mind up if you like this or not, ill give 2 recent examples.

    Was on the luas a few months ago, i got on at the first stop and it got pretty packed, standing space only. A middle aged woman, maybe 40 years old get on an was standing beside me, so i decided to stand up and let her have a seat...Well that was a mistake, she started screaming at me saying " just because im a woman dosent mean i need yoru help " Really making a show of me. So politely told her to go fuck herself and sat back down.

    Then literally 2 weeks ago catching the bus fairly full, but mostly empty upstairs as usual. Another middle aged woman, this time 45ish came in and walked past where i was sitting (up the front on the side in a single seat) took no notice of her as i thought she had gone and sat down in the few spare seats that were left. So about a min or two later she comes back up and stands infront of me and starts talking loudly and pointing the finger at me (i had my mp3 player on) So turned it off and she was demanding i give up my seat for her, as get this... She was getting off in a few stops time. So i told her to calm down and sit on one of the empty seats which where ohh about 6 foot away. Now this really wound her up, started calling me a polack... (im welsh, with a fairly thick irish accent) and ignorant for not giving up my seat to a "old lady"

    Also, im constantly opening doors for women, and even letting them through first if they are comming towards the door. Maybe one in every 20 says thanks, most just ignore you and not even a smile or gesture.

    So from now on, if a door is slammed in your face, or your still standing on the bus/luas. Tough luck.


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    #155
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    Manties wrote: »
    I wish you women would make your mind up if you like this or not, ill give 2 recent examples.

    Was on the luas a few months ago, i got on at the first stop and it got pretty packed, standing space only. A middle aged woman, maybe 40 years old get on an was standing beside me, so i decided to stand up and let her have a seat...Well that was a mistake, she started screaming at me saying " just because im a woman dosent mean i need yoru help " Really making a show of me. So politely told her to go fuck herself and sat back down.

    Then literally 2 weeks ago catching the bus fairly full, but mostly empty upstairs as usual. Another middle aged woman, this time 45ish came in and walked past where i was sitting (up the front on the side in a single seat) took no notice of her as i thought she had gone and sat down in the few spare seats that were left. So about a min or two later she comes back up and stands infront of me and starts talking loudly and pointing the finger at me (i had my mp3 player on) So turned it off and she was demanding i give up my seat for her, as get this... She was getting off in a few stops time. So i told her to calm down and sit on one of the empty seats which where ohh about 6 foot away. Now this really wound her up, started calling me a polack... (im welsh, with a fairly thick irish accent) and ignorant for not giving up my seat to a "old lady"

    Also, im constantly opening doors for women, and even letting them through first if they are comming towards the door. Maybe one in every 20 says thanks, most just ignore you and not even a smile or gesture.

    So from now on, if a door is slammed in your place, or your still standing on the bus/luas. Tough luck.

    I can relate to all of the above and agree with the last statement too.


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    #156
    RubyXI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭RubyXI


    Where i work, there's mainly men. I'm the only girl in my office n all. The rest of em are in accounts and reception. Almost all the lads open doors for me. I'd always thank them. Once me and another girl were going into the office and one of the guys opened the door for us and bowed. T'were funny. I'm never expected to lift stuff or anything.
    Outside work getting on buses and stuff i'll often be let on first if i'm the only girl.
    The lads at work are always apologising to me too if they swear or mention anything in anyway sexual. They think i'm alot more innocent than i am :p It sometimes gets annoying when they apologise to me for swearing. I mean why should i be offended by it anymore than anyone else?


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    #157
    Reku
    Registered Users Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Reku


    phi3 wrote: »
    The lads at work are always apologising to me too if they swear or mention anything in anyway sexual. They think i'm alot more innocent than i am :p It sometimes gets annoying when they apologise to me for swearing. I mean why should i be offended by it anymore than anyone else?

    Well I personally have encountered a lot more females who'd either complain or give me looks when I swear, gas thing is quite a few of those would do so themselves.


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