Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

Options
13567…27

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    end of the road wrote: »
    claptrap, their not holding the traveling public to ransom as their are many options to get round if a strike goes ahead, yeah it might mean getting up and leaving the house a little earlier or either driving or getting a taxi rather then the bus but if striking as a last resort means that all options are examined for cuts rather then the staff just being the first port of call because its easier then thats what has to happen.


    Yep, nobody's affected. I have loads of options getting back home to Blanch from busaras after visiting my mam. I can walk the 14Km.... or get a taxi...... except, unlike the drivers, I'm unemployed and can't bloody afford it.

    I'm still going down for my mother's birthday and appreciate your transport advice......


  • Options
    #63
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Do you think 14 months of negotiations on cost reduction proposals (including LRC involvement) is acceptable in the context of running a company?
    its unfortunate yes, i think if the time for them allowed to happen was less then management might move quicker to put a deal on the table that will suit all involved

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #64
    dukedalton
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭dukedalton


    As usual, it's going to be the paying customer who suffers most from industrial action.

    Here's a novel suggestion: instead of not showing up for work and causing mass disruption for the public, why don't workers instead refuse to take fares from commuters? Thus management gets the message, and commuters get to where they need to go.


  • Options
    #65
    Devilman40k
    Registered Users Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭Devilman40k


    end of the road wrote: »
    its a reasonable suggestion if the busses are down and you don't have access to a car luas or dart, yes a strike is an inconvenience but it isn't the end of the world, you do have options

    Ok what are these options then?... mine seems to be spend 50 per day on taxis (and if I do that should I request reimbursement from the union??)


  • Options
    #66
    liger
    Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭liger


    TheIrishGrover wrote: »
    Yep, nobody's affected. I have loads of options getting back home to Blanch from busaras after visiting my mam. I can walk the 14Km.... or get a taxi...... except, unlike the drivers, I'm unemployed and can't bloody afford it.

    I'm still going down for my mother's birthday and appreciate your transport advice......

    Head to a taxi rank, share a cab with a couple of others.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    BuffyBot
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 24,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    free travel scheme
    free travel scheme

    Let's keep on topic. The existance or not of the scheme is very much outside of DB's control.


  • Options
    #68
    stop
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭stop


    Will this strike affect Oxegen Buses?
    Or as Marathon Sports travel are involved will they just get other buses?


  • Options
    #69
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,717 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    stop wrote: »
    Will this strike affect Oxegen Buses?
    Or as Marathon Sports travel are involved will they just get other buses?

    According to this it may well affect Oxegen and more besides:
    Thousands travelling from the Oxegen music festival in Co Kildare, which will take place from Friday to Monday, could be left without transport.

    Meanwhile, organisers of The Gathering Ireland have predicted the busiest weekend of the year for family and community events.

    Around 87 separate gatherings are planned across the country with a huge portion of those happening in the capital.


  • Options
    #70
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the free travel scheme - that is a matter for government policy, and is outside the remit of Dublin Bus. It is a completely separate issue.

    The reality is that DB's cost base is too high and this has to change. I'm sorry to break this news to you, as you seem to be in denial - but that has to be addressed. I am saying this as someone who has worked in two companies over the last 10 years where we continually reviewed costs, and who has had to make not insignificant personal sacrifices to keep my job.

    For negotiations to be ongoing for a full year with no agreement is nothing short of a disgrace, and suggests to me that the people involved don't seem to be grasping the seriousness of the situation. No company can operate with that sort of inability to change work practices, or review costs. As I said above - there have to be negotiations, but they have to have a defined time limit - really this has gone beyond a joke.

    that's a cop out, the company have a financial short fall the company is not being paid properly for the free travel scheme, you cant just ignore that fact as if it has no bearing on the issue.


    And no the companies cost base is not the problem the problem is a cut in subvention, the removal of the fuel rebate, and the fact that 1.1 million people are entitled to travel for free for which DB gets about 2euro per person per year.

    And this is another in a series of cost cutting exercises, and not the last the subvention will be cut again next year.

    Lastly the negotiations have dragged on because the company has not been honest or transparent in what they wanted or on how changes will affect their staff.


  • Options
    #71
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    According to this it may well affect Oxegen and more besides:

    Alan Martin coaches has the contract for oxygen so it will have no affect.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I can't see this affecting Oxegen as Dublin Bus are no longer providing the service.


  • Options
    #73
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    BuffyBot wrote: »
    Let's keep on topic. The existance or not of the scheme is very much outside of DB's control.

    How is it off topic ? There is a hole in the companies finances, pointing out a huge contributory factor to that hole is not off topic.

    And you have just highlighted the problem it is out of their control, so instead they are looking to the employees to plug the hole.
    if you are being asked to provide a service it is not unreasonable to ask to be paid properly to provide it nor is it unreasonable or off topic to point out that the government is behind the massive hole in their finances.
    Unless you prefer to dance around it, and we will all just ignore the elephant in the room.


  • Options
    #74
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    dukedalton wrote: »
    As usual, it's going to be the paying customer who suffers most from industrial action.

    Here's a novel suggestion: instead of not showing up for work and causing mass disruption for the public, why don't workers instead refuse to take fares from commuters? Thus management gets the message, and commuters get to where they need to go.
    2 reasons the company have threatened legal action against unions for no fare days.

    second if you work the new arrangements you are defacto accepting them.


  • Options
    #75
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,558 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cdebru wrote: »
    that's a cop out, the company have a financial short fall the company is not being paid properly for the free travel scheme, you cant just ignore that fact as if it has no bearing on the issue.


    And no the companies cost base is not the problem the problem is a cut in subvention, the removal of the fuel rebate, and the fact that 1.1 million people are entitled to travel for free for which DB gets about 2euro per person per year.

    And this is another in a series of cost cutting exercises, and not the last the subvention will be cut again next year.

    Lastly the negotiations have dragged on because the company has not been honest or transparent in what they wanted or on how changes will affect their staff.

    All of the matters you refer to are outside the company's control. They are an issue for the Government. I understand the point you make, but they are a separate issue.

    I'm sorry, but I can tell you that regardless of those issues, the cost base is still way too high, and has to reduce. The biggest element is payroll. And as I have already said, senior management should individually be making a larger contribution than everyone else in percentage terms, but any reduction they make is going to be minute in the context of overall payroll savings.

    You seem to want not to hear this, but change has to happen for this company to survive and become competitive.

    No company can live in a vacuum - they need to respond and quickly. If either of the companies that I've worked in over the past 10 years had not responded to the financial realities for 14 months because of procrastinated negotiations, then both would be out of business.

    It is not acceptable. Bottom line.


  • Options
    #76
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lxflyer wrote: »
    All of the matters you refer to are outside the company's control. They are an issue for the Government. I understand the point you make, but they are a separate issue.

    I'm sorry, but I can tell you that the cost base is still way too high, and has to reduce. The biggest element is payroll. And as I have already said, senior management should be making a larger contribution than everyone else in percentage terms, but any reduction they make is going to be minute in the context of overall payroll savings.

    You seem to want not to hear this, but change has to happen for this company to survive and become competitive.

    No company can live in a vacuum - they need to respond and quickly. If either of the companies that I've worked in over the past 10 years had not responded to the financial realities for 14 months because of procrastinated negotiations, then both would be out of business.

    It is not acceptable. Bottom line.

    Then the unions should take it up with the government and make it clear to them that they will not accept any cuts until the issue is addressed.
    It is a nonsense to pretend that it is not an issue or that the current scheme is sustainable. cuts alone will not sort this out, the free travel scheme is a millstone dragging all 3 companies into oblivion and cuts and fare increases will not solve the problem.


  • Options
    #77
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    cdebru wrote: »
    Then the unions should take it up with the government and make it clear to them that they will not accept any cuts until the issue is addressed.
    It is a nonsense to pretend that it is not an issue or that the current scheme is sustainable. cuts alone will not sort this out, the free travel scheme is a millstone dragging all 3 companies into oblivion and cuts and fare increases will not solve the problem.
    OK, scrap the Free Travel Scheme tomorrow. Then you can tell us where the transport companies can find the additional €80 million+ in subsidies every year to replace it. In extra fares? Don't make me laugh, because of high fares and unreliable service, people will only travel when it's essential. The biggest problem with the FTS is fraud, and that is within the power of CIE to prevent. How many times have you had a ticket inspector on your bus in the last month? I'd wager that you could number it on the fingers of one hand if you'd had five amputated. How many of the passengers on any single journey pay the minimum fare and travel the full distance? I'd wager you'd need at least all your fingers and toes to number them. Dublin Bus seem to think that the elimination of conductors from buses would also eliminate fraud and fare evasion, like in so many other things, they were wrong.


  • Options
    #78
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    cdebru wrote: »
    How is it off topic ? There is a hole in the companies finances, pointing out a huge contributory factor to that hole is not off topic.

    And you have just highlighted the problem it is out of their control, so instead they are looking to the employees to plug the hole.
    if you are being asked to provide a service it is not unreasonable to ask to be paid properly to provide it nor is it unreasonable or off topic to point out that the government is behind the massive hole in their finances.
    Unless you prefer to dance around it, and we will all just ignore the elephant in the room.

    Please do not reply in-thread to a mod or admin warning.

    The reasoning why is explained in the charter.


  • Options
    #79
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    What's the bets this will play out with 2 days of no service, everyone back to the negotiating table, company capitulates on nearly everything, unions on practically nothing, and we move on pretending the problems in DB are solved for now.


  • Options
    #80
    Atilla
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Atilla


    At last some group of workers do not roll over , we spend years griping about austerity and all it entails ,we sit on our hands and grumble , These workers should be commended not castigated .


  • Options
    #81
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    What's the bets this will play out with a day of no service, everyone back to the negotiating table, company and unions come to a deal that suits both sides, and we slowly but surely cut out all the waste along with other needed cuts
    thats what will happen

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    reckoner
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭reckoner


    end of the road wrote: »
    its a reasonable suggestion if the busses are down and you don't have access to a car luas or dart, yes a strike is an inconvenience but it isn't the end of the world, you do have options

    I find it remarkable that some people think that it is reasonable to pay 35+ euro's to get a taxi into work, which is more than half my day's wages, but certainly not for these already over-paid bus drivers, who work for a company that barely have services past 11pm or before 6am in a capital city of the world.

    Once again the customer pays the price. Sham.


  • Options
    #83
    Atilla
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Atilla


    reckoner wrote: »
    I find it remarkable that some people think that it is reasonable to pay 35+ euro's to get a taxi into work, which is more than half my day's wages, but certainly not for these already over-paid bus drivers, who work for a company that barely have services past 11pm or before 6am in a capital city of the world.

    Once again the customer pays the price. Sham.
    Dub Bus to my knowledge did run a nitelink service 6 days per week some years ago , the average patronage was 4 passengers per journey hence its scrapping


  • Options
    #84
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    reckoner wrote: »
    these already over-paid bus drivers
    their worth every penny, having to deal with members of the public some of who are extremely uncivilised and having to take abuse and sit there and put up with it, they should be commended as i certainly wouldn't stay in a cab and take abuse from somebody
    reckoner wrote: »
    a company that barely have services past 11pm or before 6am in a capital city of the world.
    thats not the drivers fault, some routes wouldn't have the demand for such services, all though i would like to see a 24 hour bus service myself, i'd even like to see late night rail services to outside dart and commuter but how and ever

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #85
    reckoner
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭reckoner


    end of the road wrote: »
    their worth every penny, having to deal with members of the public some of who are extremely uncivilised and having to take abuse and sit there and put up with it, they should be commended as i certainly wouldn't stay in a cab and take abuse from somebody

    I really wonder if you think that bus drivers are the only service in the world that interacts with customers, and hence face all of the above on a regular basis?
    Because i certainly do....i guess that makes just myself and our "beloved" bus drivers eh


  • Options
    #86
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Atilla wrote: »
    Dub Bus to my knowledge did run a nitelink service 6 days per week some years ago , the average patronage was 4 passengers per journey hence its scrapping

    They typically ran two buses, one at 1230 and 0200. So it barely qualified as a "service." Routing was different on Mon-Thur too, which didn't help as none of the Nitelinks follow the same route as their daytime counterparts. God knows how long it'd take to get to the Celbridge for example.

    265265.PNG


  • Options
    #87
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    end of the road wrote: »
    thats what will happen

    That's also not what I said.


  • Options
    #88
    reckoner
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭reckoner


    n97 mini wrote: »
    They typically ran two buses, one at 1230 and 0200. So it barely qualified as a "service." Routing was different on Mon-Thur too, which didn't help as none of the Nitelinks follow the same route as their daytime counterparts. God knows how long it'd take to get to the Celbridge for example.

    Yeah thats the one i used to get actually. Palmerstown, Lucan, Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth, it had far more than 4 on it, but obviously they preferred scrapping midweek nitelink in its entirety rather than keeping the routes that actually had passengers.

    Good times, haha


  • Options
    #89
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    end of the road wrote: »
    their worth every penny, having to deal with members of the public some of who are extremely uncivilised and having to take abuse and sit there and put up with it, they should be commended as i certainly wouldn't stay in a cab and take abuse from somebody

    No more than any other group of unskilled public facing workers, eg. shop assistants, fast food workers, barmen etc and Dublin bus drivers have a perspex shield to protect them from physical attack.

    Also they have a defined benefits pension where the taxpayer has to fund the shortfall.

    Let's face it, at the end of it, everyone in Dublin is going to have to cough up more money in fare increases to keep these unskilled workers in their current position. The monthly Dublin bus ticket has already gone up from €98 to €112 in the last year or two, if my memory is correct, and the service has gone to shit as they reduce the service to the bare minimum.

    I for one would welcome privatisation.


  • Options
    #90
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    liger wrote: »
    Head to a taxi rank, share a cab with a couple of others.


    I'm unemployed! Not all of us are raking in 500-600-whatever AHers seem to think it is nowadays.

    I have my leap card and I can't afford another 10-20 odd quid because somebody decides to strike. I know mr end-of-the-road-"not"-a-driver thinks it's a taxi is a valid option but not me.

    Lets face it, the strike-ANY strike is timed to cause as much heartache as possible. If it didn't affect as many people as possible then what's the point? So hearing unions etc saying they don't want to cause problems for people is a flat out LIE. (To be fair though, Dublin Bus didn't even say this)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    unskilled workers
    unskilled public facing workers[/quote
    i'l think you'l find driving a bus takes a lot of skill, not everyone can do it dispite what you or others might delude your self in to thinking, if anyone could do it we'd all be bus drivers, some of us just won't be able to do it as were not right for the job

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement