What History Book are you reading?

Modern Ireland : 1600-1972 by RF Foster

Europe: A history by Norman Davies, I haven't read The Isles but this is excellent without being too heavyweight.

Recently finished Rubicon by Tom Holland which was fantastic.

Manach wrote: »

Britain Against Napoleon: The Organisation of Victory, 1793-1815 Roger Knight
In one sense, one purely for the nerds among us who like the logistics and organisation aspects of how a period operated. On the other hand, it is well written and allows the characters' attributes of the period to be gleamed.

Do you know of any modern one volume biography of Napoleon? There is one by a Vincent Cronin but I think it is quite old. Would be interested in a modern one.
What are the best biographies of him I wonder.

bobbyss wrote: »

I tried Anne Chambers' Grace O'Malley more than once but could not get past page 2. She is a great story I would imagine. All that is needed is someone who is able to tell it.

Granuaile is heavily romantisced, in reality her main goals were the protection of the inheritance of her son Tiobóid na Long Bourke(Tibbot of the boats) from the depredations of Sir Richard Bingham.

Tiobóid was in sense the last "Mac William Íochtar" elected in the traditional manner.

In the end you could say she succeeded Tiobóid was made Viscount Mayo in 1626.

Some good posts here by Bannasidhe to put it in context:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056521805&page=4

dubhthach wrote: »

Granuaile is heavily romantisced, in reality her main goals were the protection of the inheritance of her son Tiobóid na Long Bourke(Tibbot of the boats) from the depredations of Sir Richard Bingham.

Tiobóid was in sense the last "Mac William Íochtar" elected in the traditional manner.

In the end you could say she succeeded Tiobóid was made Viscount Mayo in 1626.

Some good posts here by Bannasidhe to put it in context:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056521805&page=4

Thank you dubhthach. It looks heavy going.

Just finished Senan Molony's Phoenix Park Murders. The last two or three chapters-the killing of James Carey- was fantastic. I thought I was reading the Day of the Jackal.

bobbyss wrote: »

Thank you dubhthach. It looks heavy going.

Well part of reason for that is that by and large most people have next to no clue of Ireland pre-17th century. As the expression goes "the past is a different country", in case of Ireland pre 1603 it's even worse as "Gaelic Ireland" is in some ways extremely foreign to modern Irish view of world. (One only has to look at the prevalence of Divorce and general sexual permissiveness of society in contrast to what developed in post 1800 period).

The best introduction to period remains Nicholls "Gaelic and Gaelicized Ireland during the middle ages". It's a paperback originally published in 1976 and republished in 2003.
http://www.lilliputpress.ie/book/209/k_w_nicholls-gaelic_and_gaelicized_ireland_in_the_middle_ages.html

1. Introduction: The background of Late Medieval Ireland
   • The Land
   • Ireland a lineage society
   • The expanding clans
   • The Anglo0Norman settlements and their decline
   • The Gaelic reconquest
2. Political Structures and the Forms of Power
   • The Irish lordship
   • Tainistry and inaguguration
   • Public assemblies
   • The Revenues and exactions of the lords
   • The right of the lords regarding land
   • Monopolies and pre-emption
   • Lords' officers
   • "Buyings" and sláinte
3. The Legal System
   • The Irish legal system
   • The judges
   • Brehon law and English Law
   • Legal procedures
   • Compensation and the principle of joint responsibility
   • The law of land: "Irish gravelkind"
   • Forms of partition
   • Customs approaching "gravelkind"
   • The pledge of land
4. Social Life and Social Groupings
   • The people
   • Nomenclature
   • Marriage and sexual life
   • Affiliation: the "naming of children"
   • Fosterage
   • The professional learned classes
   • The poets
   • Military groupings
   • The galloglass
5. The Church and Clergy in Society
   • The Irish Church
   • The clergy
   • Clerical life
   • Papal provisions
   • The monastic orders
   • Coarbs and erenaghs
6. Economic Life
   • Agriculture and pastoralism
   • The townladn system
   • Patterns of settlement
   • Crafstmen and local industries
   • Foreign trade and the coastal towns
7. Ulster
   • The O'Neills of Tyrone
   • "Little Ulster" and Clandeboy
   • Tirconnell
   • Fermanagh and Oriel
8. Connacht
   • The O'Connors down to the Bruce invasion
   • The rise of the Mac Williamships and the wars of faction
   • The later period
   • Brefny
   • The O'Farrells of Annaly
9. Munster
   • The O'Briens of Thomond
   • The Mac Carthys of Demond
   • The earls of Demond and the Anglo-Norman lords of Munster
   • The Powers
   • The Butler territories
10. Leinster and Meath
    • The Mac Murroughs, kings of Leinster
    • The O'Byrnes and O'Tooles
    • Leix and Offaly
    • The Westmeath lordships

bobbyss wrote: »

Another reason for lack of interest is what is taught in schools. I would imagine 90% of schools focus on the post 1815 syllabus ie from approx 1815 onwards I believe. Leaving most people finishing school with scant knowledge of anything prior to that. I fact, I don't believe there is a text book for the earlier syllabus at all, but I may be wrong on that.

I know very little about medieval Ireland. And I find it is difficult to warm to. I do remember being bored to death learning about the 12th century Irish church or some such.

Perhaps what is needed is a Dan Jones to liven things up. I don't know of any outstanding books from the period that would draw me in. Are there any stand out books about, I don't know, Silken Thomas? Strongbow? Hugh O'Neill? Whomever? I don't see many in Easons. I don't hear them being discussed on the radio. More's the pity. There are no shortage of terrific books on other periods of history. Academic tracts have no appeal for me.

What is needed are page turners: Outstanding historians like Fraser, Schama, Starkey, Beevor. People like that. people who make you want to read more. The more people reading history the better.

Saddest of all is the looming Junior Cert syllabus change and the impending long goodbye to history.

In general when it comes to "popular history" in Ireland they tend to start with Act of Union and perhaps 1798. For example there's very little even published on the 18th century in Ireland. As to why you won't see a huge amount on earlier period. It's simple the people writing popular histories (such as Diarmuid Ferriter etc.) probably can't read the sources. For all intensive purposes our history is written in what is tantamount to a "foreign language" for most people.

If you want to write a text about Aodh Ó Néill for example most of people writing "popular history" would end up relying on either
1. the English accounts of 16th/17th centuries
2. Publications in english by "nationalist writers" in the late 19th/early 20th century.

Eason's has a very poor section on Irish history, it basically consists of O'Connell onwards, Easter rising, Dev etc with some minor smatterings about "Saints and Scholars etc."

Anyways I can't imagine church reform in the 12th century is hugely interesting, though I will say that the diocesan boundaries which are still used today by the Catholic church actually have usefull purpose. They are the fossilised remains of the pre-Norman kingdoms/principle lordships. For example look at the "Diocese of Meath" reflects the core of the "Kingdom of Midhe".


Ironically what we call "Meath" today is actually the sub-kingdom of Brega, wheras "Westmeath" is the area that was called Midhe/Mí. So the counties should really be Meath and Eastmeath

nuac wrote: »

Yes Coogan is very readable. That may be because of his journalist's training

I think there is a kind of elitism, dare I say snobbery, amongst historians. Some seem to fight like cats with each other.

I have just an amateur interest in history, but do find it fascinating.

Irish history of all periods, WW1, WW2, American history, naval and landbattle of Napeolonic area.

Gradually, very gradually, trying to reorganise a library of about 3000 books bought over the years.

I don't read in an organised matter. May follow a particular topic thru several books to see how it is viewed by different authors

And that is why Shirer's book is so readable also, he was a journalist too I think. I will read almost anything historical. if it is well written and carries you along. Myles Dungan's book on Parnell for example. I find myself buying (second hand) books by the dozen and all put away for the rainy day.

Elitism and snobbery. Yes, I think I know what you mean.

For the centenary that's in it, "The Sleepwalkers" by Christopher Clarke is well worth reading, takes you through the events of July 1914 in a detailed but understandable way.

In the same vein, before the World Cup started, I'd begun Margaret MacMillan's "The War That Ended Peace", mainly on foot of seeing her speak - without notes - for 45 minutes on the outbreak of WW1 at the recent History Festival down in Carlow. A jaw-dropping performance and the book's not half bad either.

Three more on the same theme, but with a more local slant - my particular interest is the north in the War of Independence / Civil War, so these only involved backing up a decade or so:
- "Belfast Boys" by Richard Grayson
- "The Road to the Somme" by Phillip Orr
- "The 6th Connaught Rangers - Belfast Nationalists and the Great War", a pamphlet put together by a local history group from Belfast who have done great work uncovering a hitherto-hidden aspect of the history of west Belfast

Ambiguous Republic - Ireland in the 1970s by Diarmaid Ferriter.


I was a teenager during the 1970s so its a bit odd reading a history book about things that happens during my teenage years. Makes me feel a bit old