Does McGuinness have any chance given the Indo's campaign against him?

Wolfe Tone · 16-10-2011 9:12pm

Einhard wrote: »

I just provided you with a link...

Not everything that has ever happened can be found with a quick google search...

MMG stood up in court and said he was a member of the IRA and that he was proud of it... Thats documented fact.

You say he denied ever being in the IRA... I'm skeptical, you will have to do better than some random book.

MMG has always said he was in the IRA and that he is proud of that. Its Gerry who has denied it, perhaps you are confused.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 9:12pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

This is the real Celtic v Rangers point-scoring that I truly despise.

I do so apologise if I offended your delicate sensibilities. I was merely pointing out that NI does indeed have a head of state, and it isn't Martin McGuinness - not by a long straw.

The Minstrel · 16-10-2011 9:18pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I do so apologise if I offended your delicate sensibilities. I was merely pointing out that NI does indeed have a head of state, and it isn't Martin McGuinness - not by a long straw.

Please stay on topic Monty. I don't care about any of this moronic parochialism. It's totally derailing the thread. The discussion should be about the impact of the Irish Independent's intervention in the presidential campaign.

Where might McGuinness be in the polls if the Indo took a balanced view? Does anyone think he'd be way out in front?

Happyman42 · 16-10-2011 9:21pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Usually, when speaking hypothetically, we indicate it is a hypothetical statement by using a word like 'if'.

e.g.

John says he is gay... (statement)

If John says he is gay...(hypothetical)

HTH :rolleyes:

Did you think I suddenly spilled the beans

Maybe if you looked before you leape.....ah never mind! :rolleyes:

busyliving · 16-10-2011 9:23pm

OP the indo is a rag and I don't read it, in the same way i do read the mail

ILikeBananas · 16-10-2011 9:24pm

The Sunday Independent's coverage of MMG the past three weeks has been pathetic. I mean it was bad enough 2 weeks ago but at least he was still in with a chance then. I don't see the point of it this week. They are flogging a dead horse.

At this stage of the campaign it's blatantly obvious that it is a two horse race. I would therefore have expected the bulk of the election coverage to be about Sean Gallagher and Michael D. Higgins. Instead we get another 8 opinion pieces about why we shouldn't vote for MMG (even Willie O' Dea is getting a few digs in). If anything at this stage they might actually turn some floating voters into SF voters out of sympathy and annoyance!

I'm not a SF voter nor will I be in the future. I think the way RTE and the Independent have behaved has not been fair and balanced though. They've manged to make the DUP look tolerant.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 9:28pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

I don't care about any of this moronic parochialism. It's totally derailing the thread. The discussion should be about the impact of the Irish Independent's intervention in the presidential campaign.

I notice you didn't object to the person on your side of the debate who suggested that MMG was practically the head of state in NI, but you do object and sneer at the person who points out that he isn't. How odd. Your problem with 'parochialism' seems to be a little inconsistent.

The Minstrel wrote: »

Where might McGuinness be in the polls if the Indo took a balanced view? Does anyone think he'd be way out in front?

At a guess, I'd say the answers will break down more or less exactly as you'd expect, with SF supporters saying he probably would be in front, and those who aren't SF supporters saying he probably wouldn't be.

Einhard · 16-10-2011 9:29pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

Please stay on topic Monty. I don't care about any of this moronic parochialism. It's totally derailing the thread. The discussion should be about the impact of the Irish Independent's intervention in the presidential campaign.

Where might McGuinness be in the polls if the Indo took a balanced view? Does anyone think he'd be way out in front?

I'm sorry Minstrel, but you yourself derailed any notion of debate by unilaterally determining that the Indo is biased against McGuinness, and banning any dissent. It's as if I set up a thread on the basis of MMG being a murderer, and scolded anyone who expressed a contrary opinion.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 9:30pm

ILikeBananas wrote: »

I'm not a SF voter nor will I be in the future. I think the way RTE and the Independent have behaved has not been fair and balanced though. They've manged to make the DUP look tolerant.

Boards is awash these days with people who've never voted SF before but are voting for MMG for president. :cool:

The Minstrel · 16-10-2011 9:33pm

busyliving wrote: »

OP the indo is a rag and I don't read it, in the same way i do read the mail

Of course it's a rag - it certainly wouldn't be the thinking-man's newspaper. However, there's no denying that the side backed by the Indo usually wins an election. Bertie had them in his pocket. Getting the Indo on-side is a major step towards electoral success, that's why you would have to say McGuinness is doomed to failure.

Teclo · 16-10-2011 9:34pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Boards is awash these days with people who've never voted SF before but are voting for MMG for president. :cool:

Eoghan Harris makes it more tempting.... but must resist

Einhard · 16-10-2011 9:48pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

Of course it's a rag - it certainly wouldn't be the thinking-man's newspaper.

Jesus Christ, could you be any more superciliously condescending??

However, there's no denying that the side backed by the Indo usually wins an election. Bertie had them in his pocket. Getting the Indo on-side is a major step towards electoral success, that's why you would have to say McGuinness is doomed to failure

SF have only ever had low support in the Republic. Their social policies and the fact that many of the population are appalled by their past ensures this, not the coverage of the Indo.

Happyman42 · 16-10-2011 9:51pm

Einhard wrote: »

SF have only ever had low support in the Republic. Their social policies and the fact that many of the population are appalled by their past ensures this, not the coverage of the Indo.

Can you eat internet posts?

The Minstrel · 16-10-2011 9:55pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I notice you didn't object to the person on your side of the debate who suggested that MMG was practically the head of state in NI, but you do object and sneer at the person who points out that he isn't. How odd. Your problem with 'parochialism' seems to be a little inconsistent.

Monty - I'm impartial on this one. You are correct he is not the head of state in NI. I think the poster's point was that MCG is a joint-leader of the assembly, and, as such, a decision-maker in NI.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

At a guess, I'd say the answers will break down more or less exactly as you'd expect, with SF supporters saying he probably would be in front, and those who aren't SF supporters saying he probably wouldn't be.

Leaving the party politics aside for a moment... In the absence of an Irish Independent campaign against MMCG, my opinion is that he would be ahead. It reinforces the point that the Independent is the true arbiter of elections in Ireland.

Einhard wrote: »

I'm sorry Minstrel, but you yourself derailed any notion of debate by unilaterally determining that the Indo is biased against McGuinness, and banning any dissent. It's as if I set up a thread on the basis of MMG being a murderer, and scolded anyone who expressed a contrary opinion.

No, I'm not accusing the Indo of anything. Like many national newspapers across Europe, the Independent has a defined political bias. I don't think your comparison is valid. The Indo isn't a "paper of record" and is free to nail its colours to the mast. I think it's fair to say that the Indo is distinctly anti-MMcG, as is their perogative.

Teclo wrote: »

Eoghan Harris makes it more tempting.... but must resist

In the original post I raised the point of the Indo & Belfast Telegraph being owned by the same group. Eoghan Harris is a Belfast Telegraph columnist. Both newspapers share columnists, e.g. Fionnan Sheehan etc.

Einhard · 16-10-2011 9:59pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Can you eat internet posts?

I could, but talking bout SF makes me lose my appetite!!:p

drunkmonkey · 16-10-2011 10:02pm

ILikeBananas wrote: »

The Sunday Independent's coverage of MMG the past three weeks has been pathetic. I mean it was bad enough 2 weeks ago but at least he was still in with a chance then. I don't see the point of it this week. They are flogging a dead horse.

At this stage of the campaign it's blatantly obvious that it is a two horse race. I would therefore have expected the bulk of the election coverage to be about Sean Gallagher and Michael D. Higgins.

Steady on, that's the todays' irish red c poll outcome your taking as gospel sampled before the last interviews, MG is by no means out and this is by no means a 2 horse race.
The Journal.ie Poll has Martin ahead and so had the breakingnews.ie one.

The lack of a poll on the Irish Independent website says a lot, wouldn't go down well if their own readers didn't agree with them.

I think Mc Guinness does still stand a chance as there are 703396 people every day who read some other newspaper.

These are the most recent circulation figures for the daily papers:

Irish Independent 134228
Irish Examiner 43390
The Irish Times 100951
Irish Daily Star 87121
Irish Daily Mirror 61998
The Irish Sun 79893
Irish Daily Mail 51072

Happyman42 · 16-10-2011 10:02pm

Einhard wrote: »

I could, but talking bout SF makes me lose my appetite!!:p

You must be fading away to nothing then!

Einhard · 16-10-2011 10:04pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

You must be fading away to nothing then!

The new SF diet! Gives another meaning to them "disappearing" people!

ILikeBananas · 16-10-2011 10:09pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Boards is awash these days with people who've never voted SF before but are voting for MMG for president. :cool:

Well Monty, I never said I was voting for MMG. I'm not. So :cool: yourself.

I do not like Sinn Fein. I don't like their lowest common denominator populist politics and I don't like their arrogance.

However, I just think it's absolutely ridiculous for the largest circulation Sunday newspaper to devote such a massive effort to undermine the campaign of someone who's already dead in the water.

It's also quite convenient that they've practically ignored the surge of the pseudo-FF candidate especially given their bias to that party in the past. I guess after their cheerleading of Norris they don't want to give him the kiss of death.

Happyman42 · 16-10-2011 10:11pm

Einhard wrote: »

The new SF diet! Gives another meaning to them "disappearing" people!

You're a gag. :rolleyes::D

ILikeBananas · 16-10-2011 10:12pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think Mc Guinness does still stand a chance as there are 703396 people every day who read some other newspaper.

MMG is transfer repellent though. In fact the ironic thing about the Spindo's campaign is that they just might increase the numers of 2's and 3's that he may get from voters through mis-guided sympathy.

PARKHEAD67 · 16-10-2011 10:16pm

Sully wrote: »

Its all balanced out with the amount of shinners who come online in all shapes and disguises to talk him up.

Ha ha. Typical crap from people who dont understand what Catholic people (with no IRA involvement) had to put up with back in Martins day. If you grew up in 70's and 80's Derry, you wouldnt be half as smarmy.

The Minstrel · 16-10-2011 10:23pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Steady on, that's the todays' irish red c poll outcome your taking as gospel sampled before the last interviews, MG is by no means out and this is by no means a 2 horse race.
The Journal.ie Poll has Martin ahead and so had the breakingnews.ie one.

The lack of a poll on the Irish Independent website says a lot, wouldn't go down well if their own readers didn't agree with them.

I think Mc Guinness does still stand a chance as there are 703396 people every day who read some other newspaper.

These are the most recent circulation figures for the daily papers:

Irish Independent 134228
Irish Examiner 43390
The Irish Times 100951
Irish Daily Star 87121
Irish Daily Mirror 61998
The Irish Sun 79893
Irish Daily Mail 51072

Interesting post. IMO, though, no candidate can survive the sort of onslaught that the Independent has run against MMcG. It just seems to be relentless.

Perhaps we are too quick to write Norris off also?

What does surprise me is the level of support for Gallagher. Having him win it would be akin to having a Fianna Fail Trojan Horse in the Aras. We all jeered Micheal Martin for his perceived weakness in failing to put a candidate forward, but a Sean Gallagher win could be a masterstroke on the part of Micheal Martin.

Einhard · 16-10-2011 10:28pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

Interesting post. IMO, though, no candidate can survive the sort of onslaught that the Independent has run against MMcG. It just seems to be relentless.

TBH, I'd assume that the people who buy the Sindo were always going to be unlikely to vote for McGuinness. As for the Indo, I honestly don't think it's been at all extreme in its bias. There's certainly an anti-McGuinness slant to the paper, but it's not extreme. As I pointed out, it devoted a mid page spread to both pr- and anti- McGuinness arguments from in-house columnists.

drunkmonkey · 16-10-2011 10:32pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

Interesting post. IMO, though, no candidate can survive the sort of onslaught that the Independent has run against MMcG. It just seems to be relentless.

Perhaps we are too quick to write Norris off also?

What does surprise me is the level of support for Gallagher. Having him win it would be akin to having a Fianna Fail Trojan Horse in the Aras. We all jeered Micheal Martin for his perceived weakness in failing to put a candidate forward, but a Sean Gallagher win could be a masterstroke on the part of Micheal Martin.

He survived taking on the British Army i'm sure he can handle the the independent.

Norris and Dana probably won't hit the quota and will probably drop out this week.

I can't see the people putting Gallagher in power, the ff vote is not that strong, the republican vote on the other hand...!

celticcrash · 16-10-2011 10:32pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Maybe he meant the real one ?

Poor Liam was left out in the cold.

CDfm · 16-10-2011 11:01pm

I think the MMG/SF approach the press handling has contributed hugely to this issue.

Take his teams approach to a Sindo journalist and post show confrtontation with Miriam.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/mcguinness-denies-row-with-rtersquos-orsquocallaghan-brands-debate-trial-by-television-2904839.html

Hannibal · 16-10-2011 11:19pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

In our law, and most laws, a person is as guilty of murder even if they did not pull the trigger or press the button for the bomb themselves but planned the murder and had some hand in it.

McGuinness rose through the ranks of the PIRA to its highest levels according to pretty much anyone. Someone at such a high level would have been privy to huge amounts of information and planning of activities such as murder and bombings.

He was caught with explosives and bullets in the early 70s, what was this for?

Being accused by a tv presenter of murdering someone and actually murdering someone is completely different. There is no proof to suggest that MMcG ever murdered someone or has been involved in ordering or planning the deaths of innocent people.

I have seen him described as IRA chief of staff by newspapers during the course of this election but other information suggests that Seán Mac Stíofán, Joe Cahill, Seámus Twomey, Ivor Bell and Kevin McKenna were at the helm for practically the whole period of the Troubles.

He said he left in 1974 after reflecting on the struggle in prison, and you said he was caught with explosives etc in.... the early 70's which reinforces exactly what MMcG was saying.

todolist wrote: »

McGuinness is a thug.Adams is a thug.They condoned and explained away murders.The south with their cults of Collins/De Valera inspired those Northern thugs.Collins and De Valera were murderous gunman.How can Fine Gael criticize the monster they created?

What really inspired "those northern thugs" was brutality of the oppressive regime in the north which they lived under. There was an anti-catholic fascist system in place which treated them as second class citizens and had a manipulated voting system which insured that the ruling protestants always kept a comfortable majority.

Fine Gael had no problem twice running Seán Mac Eoin in presidential elections in 1945 and 1959. Unlike MMcG there is actual proof that he murdered people and directed others to do the same. Enda Kenny has a picture of Michael Collins hanging over his desk and he was pretty much the architect of modern guerrilla warfare.

Why don't the Labour party divulge exactly the role of Gilmore, Rabbitte and De Rossa in the Workers Party and Official IRA.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 11:23pm

Dotsey wrote: »

Being accused by a tv presenter of murdering someone and actually murdering someone is completely different. There is no proof to suggest that MMcG ever murdered someone or has been involved in ordering or planning the deaths of innocent people.

The problem with this is that your definition of innocent and someone else's definition of innocent might be very different. Can we at least agree that he was certainly involved in participating in, planning or ordering the killing of some people? Or are we going to maintain the notion that he was in charge of the IRA creche?

Dotsey wrote: »

Fine Gael had no problem twice running Seán Mac Eoin in presidential elections in 1945 and 1959. Unlike MMcG there is actual proof that he murdered people and directed others to do the same.

I can assure you that I wouldn't have voted for him either, if that's any good to you.

Wider Road · 16-10-2011 11:38pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Dotsey wrote: »

Being accused by a tv presenter of murdering someone and actually murdering someone is completely different. There is no proof to suggest that MMcG ever murdered someone or has been involved in ordering or planning the deaths of innocent people.

The problem with this is that your definition of innocent and someone else's definition of innocent might be very different. Can we at least agree that he was certainly involved in participating in, planning or ordering the killing of some people? Or are we going to maintain the notion that he was in charge of the IRA creche?

Dotsey wrote: »

Fine Gael had no problem twice running Seán Mac Eoin in presidential elections in 1945 and 1959. Unlike MMcG there is actual proof that he murdered people and directed others to do the same.

I can assure you that I wouldn't have voted for him either, if that's any good to you.

What's your opinion on a present govt employee being released on a technical issue, rather than serving time after being convicted of murder?
You can't have it both ways.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 11:41pm

Wider Road wrote: »

What's your opinion on a present govt employee being released on a technical issue, rather than serving time after being convicted of murder?
You can't have it both ways.

I can't have what both ways?

Re. Mr. Kathleen Lynch - if he was guilty, he certainly should have served all the time he was due. But under the GFA, he probably would only have served a couple of years anyway, no?

Dr Galen · 16-10-2011 11:44pm

Unfortunately, what could have been an interesting thread/discussion on the role of the media in this election, has descended into the usual entrenched positions and the same tired arguments on BOTH sides.

We do not need another thread around the issues in general of the MMG campaign and his past. If tomorrow morning, thats the line this thread continues down, then I'll be closing it.

Cheers

DrG

Wider Road · 17-10-2011 12:33am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Wider Road wrote: »

What's your opinion on a present govt employee being released on a technical issue, rather than serving time after being convicted of murder?
You can't have it both ways.

I can't have what both ways?

Re. Mr. Kathleen Lynch - if he was guilty, he certainly should have served all the time he was due. But under the GFA, he probably would only have served a couple of years anyway, no?

Kathleen is not a mans name, it's Bernard Lynch that's the story, remember!!
The Mail on Sunday first reported the story & then had a follow up with Bernard's employment by the current govt.
We owe the media & especially The Mail On Sunday a great thank you for this story.
It tells us about a murder in 1975 & a conviction in 76. Why Monty says that Bernard Lynch would only serve a couple of years in jail under the GFA is beyond me, considering it came into effect in 1999, (I think).
The media has done us a service here.

Einhard · 17-10-2011 12:36am

Wider Road wrote: »

Kathleen is not a mans name, it's Bernard Lynch that's the story, remember!!
The Mail on Sunday first reported the story & then had a follow up with Bernard's employment by the current govt.
We owe the media & especially The Mail On Sunday a great thank you for this story.
It tells us about a murder in 1975 & a conviction in 76. Why Monty says that Bernard Lynch would only serve a couple of years in jail under the GFA is beyond me, considering it came into effect in 1999, (I think).
The media has done us a service here.

Wasn't his conviction overturned?

charlemont · 17-10-2011 12:47am

todolist wrote: »

McGuinness is a thug.Adams is a thug.They condoned and explained away murders.The south with their cults of Collins/Dev Valera inspired those Northern thugs.Collins and Dev Valera were murderous gunman.How can Fine Gael criticize the monster they created?

So its all one sided in your world, Yea ?

Wider Road · 17-10-2011 12:49am

Einhard wrote: »

Wider Road wrote: »

Kathleen is not a mans name, it's Bernard Lynch that's the story, remember!!
The Mail on Sunday first reported the story & then had a follow up with Bernard's employment by the current govt.
We owe the media & especially The Mail On Sunday a great thank you for this story.
It tells us about a murder in 1975 & a conviction in 76. Why Monty says that Bernard Lynch would only serve a couple of years in jail under the GFA is beyond me, considering it came into effect in 1999, (I think).
The media has done us a service here.

Wasn't his conviction overturned?

Not because of innocence.
Read the story again & reply.
Why has Kathleen (wife) & Ciaran (brother) no comment to make on the matter of murder?
Their silence is deafening!!
Bernard is now employed by the current govt!!
Are you happy with that?

Wolfe Tone · 17-10-2011 1:10am

Einhard wrote: »

Wasn't his conviction overturned?

Astatement (which may have been beaten out of him by the Gardaí, not unusual during the troubles) was taken after the period they were allowed hold him expired. The Judge then deemed it inadmissible so the conviction was quashed.

The Scientician · 17-10-2011 1:17am

The Sindo has always been virulently anti-SF. I don't read the paper myself but it's plainly evident that its coverage differs from other Irish newspapers. It also hides behind printing its OP/ED piece titles on the cover, so even if there's no news they can stir shít. It's plain as day, I don't think I'd need to do a content analysis to confirm.

I often wish there were an Irish equivalent of the Guardian, with fewer spelling errors. The Indo is a rag but the Irish Times is too dry, it can be a hard slog getting through it.

Hootanany · 17-10-2011 1:24am

The more people talk him down the more I want to vote for him. This spin has to stop youbhave been found out.

Monty Burnz · 17-10-2011 1:28am

Hootanany wrote: »

The more people talk him down the more I want to vote for him. This spin has to stop youbhave been found out.

Are you not a SF supporter, and have never voted for SF before, by any chance?

Peep O'Day · 17-10-2011 1:33am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The problem with this is that your definition of innocent and someone else's definition of innocent might be very different. Can we at least agree that he was certainly involved in participating in, planning or ordering the killing of some people? Or are we going to maintain the notion that he was in charge of the IRA creche?

I can assure you that I wouldn't have voted for him either, if that's any good to you.

Is that because he was a "terrorist" or have you any other reason?

Monty Burnz · 17-10-2011 1:36am

Peep O'Day wrote: »

Is that because he was a "terrorist" or have you any other reason?

I don't like his hairstyle...:rolleyes:

Wider Road · 17-10-2011 2:09am

Wider Road wrote: »

Einhard wrote: »

Wider Road wrote: »

Kathleen is not a mans name, it's Bernard Lynch that's the story, remember!!
The Mail on Sunday first reported the story & then had a follow up with Bernard's employment by the current govt.
We owe the media & especially The Mail On Sunday a great thank you for this story.
It tells us about a murder in 1975 & a conviction in 76. Why Monty says that Bernard Lynch would only serve a couple of years in jail under the GFA is beyond me, considering it came into effect in 1999, (I think).
The media has done us a service here.

Wasn't his conviction overturned?

Not because of innocence.
Read the story again & reply.
Why has Kathleen (wife) & Ciaran (brother) no comment to make on the matter of murder?
Their silence is deafening!!
Bernard is now employed by the current govt!!
Are you happy with that?

(Has anyone read the story?)

golfball37 · 17-10-2011 10:09am

There was an ad running on newstalk yesterday about buying the Sunday Independent. Its selling point was that it was the only paper that devoted all its columnists to the real issue irking the people of Ireland.

The unsuitability of MMcG to be head of state.

Certainly suggests the Sindo is trying to set the agenda, the front page says 66% think Miriam was right ffs.

As the mod said the thread has descended into pros and cons when the reality is the OP is correct. If the OP is correct I want to know has anyone any genuine reasons as to the motivation of a paper that played a part in fuelling the ruin of this country financially?

4 weeks in a row now they have dedicated 8 plus pages to MMcG. I honstly don't think people are that exercised about it? He is no threat at 13-16% so I really don't see the point?

CDfm · 17-10-2011 10:43am

golfball37 wrote: »

4 weeks in a row now they have dedicated 8 plus pages to MMcG. I honstly don't think people are that exercised about it? He is no threat at 13-16% so I really don't see the point?

Higgins is talking about poll volitility and the election is far from over.

The Indo probably sees itself in the position of the Fourth Estate and is covering the story.

I am not surprised at the coverage as a mainstream presidential election is something far different to a General Election.

CDfm · 17-10-2011 10:48am

golfball37 wrote: »

4 weeks in a row now they have dedicated 8 plus pages to MMcG. I honstly don't think people are that exercised about it? He is no threat at 13-16% so I really don't see the point?

Higgins is talking about poll volitility and the election is far from over.

The Indo probably sees itself in the position of the Fourth Estate and is covering the story. Free press as the cornerstone of democracy.

I am not surprised at the coverage as a mainstream presidential election is something far different to a General Election.

Any difficult unanswered questions were going to be asked. That does not make it a campaign , but MMG is a story and probably the biggest one.

Norris is done as is Dana.

So MMG is infinitely more controvercial than either.

Godge · 17-10-2011 12:01pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

As the paper of record, the Irish Times tends to present a generally balanced view on things. The Independent, on the other hand, tends not to.

Can McGuinness (or, indeed, any candidate) stand a chance in an election if the most widely circulated newspaper (the Irish Independent) is campaigning against him? For example, today, the website of the Independent ran some lead articles in opposition to MMcG while the Times didn't feature him in their headlines.

2 of the Indo articles were written by Belfast Telegraph columnists - the Independent and Belfast Telegraph are owned by the same group, and, hence, often use the same journalists. Do boardsies think this is why their coverage is so one-sided?

The Minstrel wrote: »

Ah come on now. Look at the Irish Times coverage v Irish Independent. Is the question raised in the original post re Belfast Telegraph valid?

I suppose you could object to the Belfast Telegraph link if you had a problem with people holding positions up there becoming involved in issues and elections "down here".

Monty Burnz · 17-10-2011 12:03pm

CDfm wrote: »

Norris is done as is Dana.

So MMG is infinitely more controvercial than either.

You can add Mitchell and Davis too, so the real stories from here on in will be about Higgins, MMG and Gallagher. Higgins seems squeaky clean, but I wouldn't be surprised if Gallagher had some FFailure-style skeletons in the closet.

CDfm · 17-10-2011 12:29pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You can add Mitchell and Davis too, so the real stories from here on in will be about Higgins, MMG and Gallagher. Higgins seems squeaky clean, but I wouldn't be surprised if Gallagher had some FFailure-style skeletons in the closet.

The Indo historically was a FG paper.

Off topic I know but Hiiggins would need to have done something really bad to surpass the scandals so far.

The view I take is that the office of Presidents most important discretionary power is that of disolving the Dail should the Taoiseach loose his majority.

I do not think that Higgins is that impartial that if the government fell appart before term that he would send Enda back to try and form a minority administration.

So it is important to see where the Indo will look next.

Godge · 17-10-2011 12:58pm

The Minstrel wrote: »

. It reinforces the point that the Independent is the true arbiter of elections in Ireland.

To make that statement, you really have to solve the chicken and egg problem. Which comes first?

Do the Indo put out their feelers for what way the wind is blowing in an election (they can study the opinion polls in greater detail than the general public) and jump on a bandwagon and claim it as their own? Sometimes this can be done early - dumping FF at the last election was a no-brainer. Sometimes it can only be done late - the last-minute front-page in 2007 for FF. But they are only following what the people want.

Or do they have the intellectual capacity to lead the debate and influence the outcome?

Are they a leader or a follower? If they were just a rag (as you insist they are), they would be a follower, following the mob as it crashed and swung around, but rarely leading or influencing the mob.

Turning back to McGuinness, I think he has got a fairly easy ride in general from the media, considering who he is and what he has done.

Does McGuinness have any chance given the Indo's campaign against him?

Comments