Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Tox56 · 04-11-2012 11:30pm

Hagz wrote: »

As you'd expect him to be in the pouring rain in a second string match. He made a few line breaks, one where he almost scored a try, but ultimately the match called for a more territorial game, which Madigan doesn't really have yet. In defence he was solid as usual.

Was impressed with his defence, looks slight but is pretty strong in the tackle.

Fishooks12 · 04-11-2012 11:35pm

LeftBase wrote: »

Not in the slightest bit. POM is an abrasive personality but that's the height of it in that area his game. His ball carrying is not the best and unless he wins us penalties by whinging at the referee all game then he wont bring much to the table.

Murray's slow passing and ponderous work at the base will give the Boks more opportunity than they need to get up and physically rough up the Irish backline and Sexton. We need quick ball. Like I said if we go grunt for grunt then we will lose!

tbh, that's a ridiculous assessment of POM as a player

Murray has sped up his service hugely this year. I'd still pick Reddan but Murray starting would not be "losing the game before it starts"

irishbucsfan · 04-11-2012 11:36pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

he says old brand of munster rugby as in munster rugby in the old days

We don't play like they did either.

EDIT: IE we don't win

LeftBase · 04-11-2012 11:45pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbh, that's a ridiculous assessment of POM as a player

Murray has sped up his service hugely this year. I'd still pick Reddan but Murray starting would not be "losing the game before it starts"

He isn't a dynamic players at all. A modern backrow must be dynamic. So that assessment is an assessment in relation to the rugby he will have to play.

Murray is still nowhere near good enough to be in a green jersey. Reddan and Marshall should be the 9s in the squad.

irishbucsfan · 04-11-2012 11:47pm

POM isn't a dynamic player?

boksmashoffice · 04-11-2012 11:52pm

bilston wrote: »

How do you think the Boks will line up?

1. Beast
2. strauss (maybe Brits)
3. Jannie
4. Eben
5. Flip
6. Alberts
7.Louw
8. Vermulen
9. Ruan P
10. Steyn ( I would love to see lambie) but I think Meyer will favour Steyn

11. Pietersen
12. De Villiers
13. Taute
14. Hougaard

15. Bloody Kirscner (useless, should not be a bok imo) :mad:

A solid team. Hopefully Alberts will bash O brain and your other forwards.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 04-11-2012 11:54pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

POM isn't a dynamic player?

Well he certainly isn't dynamic in the Ferris/SOB mold, but none of our other options (possibly Henderson aside) are either. Its pretty hilarious that he touts McLoughlin as an option, but criticizes POM for not being dynamic enough.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 04-11-2012 11:55pm

boksmashoffice wrote: »

A solid team. Hopefully Alberts will bash O brain and your other forwards.

O'Brien is injured

Tox56 · 04-11-2012 11:56pm

boksmashoffice wrote: »

1. Beast
2. strauss (maybe Brits)
3. Jannie
4. Eben
5. Flip
6. Alberts
7.Louw
8. Vermulen
9. Ruan P
10. Steyn ( I would love to see lambie) but I think Meyer will favour Steyn
11. Pietersen
12. De Villiers
13. Taute
14. Hougaard

15. Bloody Kirscner (useless, should not be a bok imo) :mad:

A solid team. Hopefully Alberts will bash O brain and your other forwards.

If you're talking about O'Brien, he's injured

Fishooks12 · 04-11-2012 11:58pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Well he certainly isn't dynamic in the Ferris/SOB mold, but none of our other options (possibly Henderson aside) are either. Its pretty hilarious that he touts McLoughlin as an option, but criticizes POM for not being dynamic enough.

This was my retort

POM not dynamic. Despite being capable of playing in every back row position to a high standard. What a lol

bilston · 05-11-2012 12:01am

boksmashoffice wrote: »

1. Beast
2. strauss (maybe Brits)
3. Jannie
4. Eben
5. Flip
6. Alberts
7.Louw
8. Vermulen
9. Ruan P
10. Steyn ( I would love to see lambie) but I think Meyer will favour Steyn
11. Pietersen
12. De Villiers
13. Taute
14. Hougaard

15. Bloody Kirscner (useless, should not be a bok imo) :mad:

A solid team. Hopefully Alberts will bash O brain and your other forwards.

O'Brien is injured.

As is Best, Ferris, O'Driscoll and Kearney and we're possibly going to be without Healy and O'Connell.

Not the team I'd pick but I think we'll line out like this...

15 Zebo (seems to be a growing rumour)
14 Bowe
13 Earls
12 D'Arcy
11 Trimble
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 Court
2 Strauss
3 Ross
4 O'Callaghan
5 Ryan
6 O'Mahony
7 Henry
8 Heaslip

Unfortunately I think you'll paste us up front and while that's a pacey backline our midfield is quite small so I'd guess Alberts and co will be running at them all day.

JRant · 05-11-2012 12:03am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbh, that's a ridiculous assessment of POM as a player

Murray has sped up his service hugely this year. I'd still pick Reddan but Murray starting would not be "losing the game before it starts"

I'd say POM needs to settle on one position and stick with it. He could become one of 'jack of all trades, master of none'. Thats fine at club level but test level needs a bit more.
Where do you see him playing at his best, 6 or 8?

I'll have to disagree with you about Murray though. I've really not seen anything to suggest he is anything other than an average player at best. He still has a way to go to develope the skills needed to be a top SH and the test arena just isn't the place to be doing it.

LeftBase · 05-11-2012 12:03am

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Well he certainly isn't dynamic in the Ferris/SOB mold, but none of our other options (possibly Henderson aside) are either. Its pretty hilarious that he touts McLoughlin as an option, but criticizes POM for not being dynamic enough.

McLoughlin plays the rugby he has to and is what he is. 2 undynamic backrows wont do!

Fireball07 · 05-11-2012 12:04am

POM is not the perfect player or anything close to it, but a lack of dynamism is not something he could really be criticised for. He's not a massive, brutal ball-carrier but he's quick and is hard to bring down. Very mobile as well, gets around the pitch very well. Very skilful too, nice hands, able to offload.

I think my biggest concern about him at international level is that he wouldn't be as physical as someone like Ferris/O'Brien and being shunted around the back row means it can be hard for him to get a good run in just one spot.

Fishooks12 · 05-11-2012 12:06am

JRant wrote: »

I'd say POM needs to settle on one position and stick with it. He could become one of 'jack of all trades, master of none'. Thats fine at club level but test level needs a bit more.
Where do you see him playing at his best, 6 or 8?

I'll have to disagree with you about Murray though. I've really not seen anything to suggest he is anything other than an average player at best. He still has a way to go to develope the skills needed to be a top SH and the test arena just isn't the place to be doing it.

I'd agree that Murray has a bit to go in terms of being consistent at international level. But he definitely isn't an average scrum half. He's very solid at HC and rabo level and has been this year bar the Racing game. His passing has definitely improved this season too

I think POM should stick between 8 and 6. He's a 6 that can play 8 well and can fill in at 7. So I'd put him in that order

thomond2006 · 05-11-2012 12:09am

Anyone know the day of the team announcement?

LeftBase · 05-11-2012 12:11am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

This was my retort

POM not dynamic. Despite being capable of playing in every back row position to a high standard. What a lol

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Munster Rugby

irishbucsfan · 05-11-2012 12:12am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Anyone know the day of the team announcement?

With injuries I'd say they'll hold off on it as long as possible.

Could be Wednesday

thomond2006 · 05-11-2012 12:14am

@irfurugby wrote:

Confirmed that Stephen Ferris out for Springbok game, possibly Fiji but no
decision Argentina. Update on additions to squad tomorrow

Jesus just rest him lads, no need to break him for a year by rushing him back.

Scioch · 05-11-2012 12:20am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Jesus just rest him lads, no need to break him for a year by rushing him back.

It'll be all hands on deck for the Argentina game after we lose to the boks. Wont be much resting done I think.

irishbucsfan · 05-11-2012 12:22am

Scioch wrote: »

It'll be all hands on deck for the Argentina game after we lose to the boks. Wont be much resting done I think.

Only if Scotland win.

JRant · 05-11-2012 12:24am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd agree that Murray has a bit to go in terms of being consistent at international level. But he definitely isn't an average scrum half. He's very solid at HC and rabo level and has been this year bar the Racing game. His passing has definitely improved this season too

I think POM should stick between 8 and 6. He's a 6 that can play 8 well and can fill in at 7. So I'd put him in that order

I'd certainly like to see him at 6 full time.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Murray. I just think that to be praising him for improving his passing while being the incubent SH says it all really. His passing should be the one thing that is spot on before making the step up to testrugby.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 05-11-2012 12:24am

Scioch wrote: »

It'll be all hands on deck for the Argentina game after we lose to the boks. Wont be much resting done I think.

Nah we'll beat the BOKs and look to have turned a corner, and then proceed to scrape past Fiji and lose to Argentina.

Swan Curry · 05-11-2012 12:27am

POM will be fine as long as he keeps his head screwed on.I'd much rather see 6:POM 7:Henry 8:Heaslip than 6:McLaughlin 7:POM 8:Heaslip.People who say POM isn't dynamic must not have seen much of him,his running game isn't as nonexistent as some seem to think.

Putting Zebo at 15 would really weaken the team.Not because of Zebo himself,but because with Kidney,it would mean the omission of Cave,our current best choice at 13.I'd prefer to see Earls over Zebo playing 15,with the amount of injuries we have,Earls is too good to not play and although he was never really tested against England,its still more higher level experience than Zebo has.

The team I'd like to see would be(Assuming POC is out);
1:Court
2:Strauss
3:Ross
4:Tuohy
5:Ryan
6:POM
7:Henry
8:Heaslip
9:Reddan
10:Sexton
11:Zebo
12: D'arcy
13:Cave
14:Bowe
15:Earls

16:Kilcoyne
17:Cronin
18:Bent
19:DOC/McCarthy (Heard McCarthy played well this week,might just make it)
20:Henderson
21:Marshall
22:Jackson
23:McFadden

Of course,we all know what the team will probably be,apart from the possible Zebo at 15 curveball.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 05-11-2012 12:28am

JRant wrote: »

I'd certainly like to see him at 6 full time.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Murray. I just think that to be praising him for improving his passing while being the incubent SH says it all really. His passing should be the one thing that is spot on before making the step up to testrugby.

His passing is spot on to be fair. He just looks to stick too regimentally to the tactics at hand and wait too long for our attack to reset before he passes the ball out/goes for a box kick. When he is playing comfortably without over thinking, he is a very good player and the best SH we have available.

shuffol · 05-11-2012 12:54am

DementedMole has an excellent piece on why he views POM as an 8, well worth a read. As for the Boks game I'd go with POM, simply because I think he's a better ball carrier than McLaughlin and we're missing our 3 best ball carriers in Healy, SOB and Ferris.

JRant · 05-11-2012 12:56am

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

His passing is spot on to be fair. He just looks to stick too regimentally to the tactics at hand and wait too long for our attack to reset before he passes the ball out/goes for a box kick. When he is playing comfortably without over thinking, he is a very good player and the best SH we have available.

His passing most definetly needs some more work as does his decision making but both should come on with time. Like I said I don't think he's ready for the step up just yet.
Tbf he can be good on his day but those days are few and far between. We should be looking at him as a player who may be able to make the step up in the future, not as a nailed on starter right now. Right now i'd have him behind Reddan or Marshall but thats just my opinion.

Fishooks12 · 05-11-2012 12:58am

JRant wrote: »

His passing most definetly needs some more work as does his decision making but both should come on with time. Like I said I don't think he's ready for the step up just yet.
Tbf he can be good on his day but those days are few and far between. We should be looking at him as a player who may be able to make the step up in the future, not as a nailed on starter right now. Right now i'd have him behind Reddan or Marshall but thats just my opinion.

tbf his bad days have been few and far between this season.

Fishooks12 · 05-11-2012 1:01am

Anyway, here's what I'd go with at the weekend

15 Zebo
14 Bowe
13 Earls
12 Darcy
11 McFadden
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Strauss
1 Healy

16 Cronin
17 Court (if he's injured, which I think he is, then Kilkoyne)
18 Bent
19 Tuohy
20 Locky
21 Murray
22 Jackson
23 Trimble

shuffol · 05-11-2012 1:01am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbf his bad days have been few and far between this season.

Yes but at international level he's done very little to suggest he's good enough to be starting test matches.

Fishooks12 · 05-11-2012 1:03am

shuffol wrote: »

Yes but at international level he's done very little to suggest he's good enough to be starting test matches.

This I'm not arguing, I'm referring to his general form and improvement this season

JRant · 05-11-2012 1:04am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbf his bad days have been few and far between this season.

I don't think he's a bad player at all but I still don't think he's
a) ready for test rugby just yet
or
b) what we need to get the best out of our backline or backrow.

Swan Curry · 05-11-2012 1:05am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Anyway, here's what I'd go with at the weekend

15 Zebo
14 Bowe
13 Earls
12 Darcy
11 McFadden
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Strauss
1 Healy

16 Cronin
17 Court (if he's injured, which I think he is, then Kilkoyne)
18 Bent
19 Tuohy
20 Locky
21 Murray
22 Jackson
23 Trimble

What's your reasoning behind leaving Cave out?

irishbucsfan · 05-11-2012 1:06am

Has Murray played well against a good team this season?

Fishooks12 · 05-11-2012 1:06am

Swan Curry wrote: »

What's your reasoning behind leaving Cave out?

I think Earls is a better 13. Not by much mind.

Fireball07 · 05-11-2012 1:12am

I think Murray has the most potential of our current scrum-halves, I'm a fan of his, I must admit. However, I do understand people's views on him, he was jumped into the Ireland team a bit too early and has had a few poor games for Ireland. Last season his form wasn't always great but the arrival of Penney seems to have got him back into the form that made him start for Munster into the first place, when he sticks to what he's good at, he's excellent.

My team would be:

15. Earls (I think Zebo could be an excellent 15 but his first game against SA? Not fair on him or the team imo)
14. Bowe
13. Cave
12. D'Arcy
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Marshall/Reddan/Murray (Like I say, I don't really mind)
8. Heaslip
7. Henry
6. POM
5. Ryan/Tuohy (assuming POC is out)
4. DOC
3. Ross
2. Strauss
1. Court (that's assuming Healy is out)

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent (pity Fitzpatrick isn't fit)
19. Ryan/Tuohy
20. McLaughlin
21. Marshall/Reddan/Murray
22. Jackson (But I guess it'll be ROG)
23. McFadden (Versatility just gets him ahead of Trimble)

Swan Curry · 05-11-2012 1:19am

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

Fishooks12 · 05-11-2012 1:21am

Swan Curry wrote: »

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

He's disappointing me with his lack of progression tbh. If Sherry keeps improving he'll leap above him for Ireland too and he might start being omitted from squads

Swan Curry · 05-11-2012 1:31am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

He's disappointing me with his lack of progression tbh. If Sherry keeps improving he'll leap above him for Ireland too and he might start being omitted from squads

How are Sherry and Varley playing this year?I've only seen 4 Munster matches since the season began so I can't say much about them.

JRant · 05-11-2012 1:31am

Swan Curry wrote: »

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

I think Cronin is developing into a very good player. However he is very much a horses for courses type player. He has really improved his workrate without the ball, mind you his darts still need a bit of work. So I'd say if your looking to play 10 man, territorial rugby there's better options. If you want to play running rugby he's not a bad option to give the ball to.

Fishooks12 · 05-11-2012 1:33am

Swan Curry wrote: »

How are Sherry and Varley playing this year?I've only seen 4 Munster matches since the season began so I can't say much about them.

Sherry isn't consistent enough yet but he's improving. Having a decent season but I don't see him troubling Cronin for that third places until he nails down the Munster shirt over Varley who's playing well enough too

clsmooth · 05-11-2012 1:49am

Swan Curry wrote: »

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

Healy has the same impact qualities too but is too good a player to leave out
from the start for Ireland and Leinster. Cronin isn't quite there in my opinion. Best and Strauss are two more solid players who bring a lot more grunt to the game.

Foxtrol · 05-11-2012 10:42am

Swan Curry wrote: »

POM will be fine as long as he keeps his head screwed on.I'd much rather see 6:POM 7:Henry 8:Heaslip than 6:McLaughlin 7:POM 8:Heaslip.People who say POM isn't dynamic must not have seen much of him,his running game isn't as nonexistent as some seem to think.

I think you’re missing the best option for the backrow which is 6. Locky, 7. Henry and 8. Heaslip, which POM providing adequate cover for each position from the bench. I agree POM is dynamic as an openfield runner but he hasn’t shown yet that he has the grunt to face the likes of SA (not that I’d be trying to out grunt SA but we cant risk being blown away either). Locky outshone him in that aspect (and his general performance) down in NZ. I just cant see DK starting Henry though so Locky will be 6 and POM shoehorned into 7.

irishbucsfan · 05-11-2012 10:57am

POM has played very well in tight forward-oriented games before, even been Man of the Match. I think a back row of POM, Henry, Heaslip would have great balance. Henry adds the extra power and size at 7 that we'd be looking for from McLaughlin.

I think POMs pace and workrate will be absolutely vital. Attempting to outmuscle them would be dangerous (although I wouldn't be surprised if it happens given how we've played in recent years).

bilston · 05-11-2012 11:06am

You know I've been thinking about the pack and if Healy and O'Connell are out we're probably looking at...

Court, Strauss, Ross, O'Callaghan, Ryan, O'Mahony, Henry, Heaslip

I'm just wondering who the real powerful ball carriers are, I mean there are carriers there obviously but who there can do what Healy, Ferris and O'Brien can do and what Wallace did in the past? I worry our forwards are going to struggle any go forward ball. The more I look at it the more I think I'd consider throwing Henderson in there. Not saying I'd definitely pick him but despite his inexperience I can see an increasingly strong argument for taking the risk.

totallegend · 05-11-2012 11:11am

Foxtrol wrote: »

I just cant see DK starting Henry though so Locky will be 6 and POM shoehorned into 7.

Yep, this.

Two key points here:
1) Kidney has shown very little interest in Chris Henry over a long period.
2) POM will start this game one way or another.

It's frustrating; Henry has been so good for so long and POM has not played any significant games at 7.

TBH I don't think there's a huge amount between McLaughlin and POM at 6 but I will be very annoyed if POM gets the nod at 7.

bilston · 05-11-2012 11:15am

totallegend wrote: »

Yep, this.

Two key points here:
1) Kidney has shown very little interest in Chris Henry over a long period.
2) POM will start this game one way or another.

It's frustrating; Henry has been so good for so long and POM has not played any significant games at 7. It's the

TBH I don't think there's a huge amount between McLaughlin and POM at 6 but I will be very annoyed if POM gets the nod at 7.

Locky is a good carrier though isn't he?

That's my point above about even considering Henderson, in hindsight McLaughlin is a more realistic option though. We could well see McLaughlin at 6 and O'Mahony at 7.

totallegend · 05-11-2012 11:16am

bilston wrote: »

Locky is a good carrier though isn't he?

That's my point above about even considering Henderson, in hindsight McLaughlin is a more realistic option though. We could well see McLaughlin at 6 and O'Mahony at 7.

McLaughlin takes the ball well into contact, usually gains a couple of metres and presents it back but he's never going to break the line and gain ground in a Ferris/O'Brien way.

bamboozle · 05-11-2012 11:20am

Locky is an excellent ball carrier close in, he is probably the best we have at coming onto the ball at pace tight in and getting over the gainline. SOB/Ferris/Heaslip are better utilised carrying the ball further out. Cant see Locky starting on sat though but i hope i'm wrong as his skillset is perfect for tight forward dominated games like we can expect from SA.

totallegend · 05-11-2012 11:22am

BTW, not sure if it's been stated already but team announcement is Thursday, presumably to give O'Connell as much time as possible to prove his fitness.

Although if it has to be left so late, you'd have to question if he's really 100% and therefore should he be risked, given we have quality replacements?

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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