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Big-ass light

  • 26-11-2015 6:42pm
    #1
    Trojan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭


    My Light & Motion ARC NiMH finally died so I'm looking for recommendations for a big-ass light.

    I like to do night riding so I'm looking for something with similar firepower, though preferably a little cheaper than the €300 that one cost me (though at €33/year it was a good investment).

    Has the LED tech caught up to halogen at this point? What's available?

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



«1

Comments

  • #2
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    If the ARC is 675 lumens then yes, many battery-powered LEDs have caught up (and passed this) in terms of raw output.

    Even dynamo lights are over 300 lumens now (and there are diminishing returns from more output due to the "design" of the eye).

    This thread is old but good, maybe read it backwards until you lose the will to live.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055705708

    For road use pick something with a sharp cutoff or else you'll be wasting light and blinding oncoming traffic.


  • #3
    Borderfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,263 ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    I have a cateye volt 700, 2 hours on maximum output. Approx 100 euros


  • #4
    Trojan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    Hmm. Read through a lot of those posts. The hub thing sounds really interesting, I'll look out for that when next changing wheels.

    For the moment I'm looking for a front light I can use on unlit, bumpy country roads, including descents. I think I need at least 500L, and 2.5 hours run time or can replace batteries while out (I have a local loop that takes me 2h25m).

    Is there anything in the €100 range you guys would recommend?

    Edit: looking at NiteRider Lumina 750 and Moon X-Power 780 EAGLE 600 Magicshine

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



  • #5
    detones
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭detones


    Trojan wrote: »
    Hmm. Read through a lot of those posts. The hub thing sounds really interesting, I'll look out for that when next changing wheels.

    For the moment I'm looking for a front light I can use on unlit, bumpy country roads, including descents. I think I need at least 500L, and 2.5 hours run time or can replace batteries while out (I have a local loop that takes me 2h25m).

    Is there anything in the €100 range you guys would recommend?

    Edit: looking at NiteRider Lumina 750 and Moon X-Power 780 EAGLE 600 Magicshine

    Xmoon power 780. Great light. Got mine for around 100 with Merlin last year.


  • #6
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    The Cateye 700 is more like 800 lumens and cheap, handy and easily recharged via usb.

    There's the magicshine 858, it's 1k lumen and about 100 quid, both great, the cateye more versatile I think.


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  • #7
    Trojan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    The Cateye 700 is more like 800 lumens and cheap, handy and easily recharged via usb.

    There's the magicshine 858, it's 1k lumen and about 100 quid, both great, the cateye more versatile I think.

    I like the battery options available for the 858, there's a 2.2Ah, 4.4Ah and 6.4Ah. The 4.4 is standard online in some places and gives 3.5 hours on full power, plenty for me.

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



  • #8
    uphillonly
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭uphillonly


    I have the new Cateye Volt 800 (800 lumens). Now 111 euros from Wiggle.

    http://www.wiggle.com/cateye-volt-800-rc-front-light/

    Used it tonight for repeats up unlit Cruagh Lane in Dublin. Plenty of light in fact I dimmed down whenever cars approached. Easy enough to do going through modes with taps on the well placed top button.

    The true power of 800 lumens is shown when you take it off the bike & use it as a torch. Very impressive scanning the woods to look for deer.

    USB rechargeable & the battery pack is interchangeable with the other Cateye Volts. Same mount has now been used by Cateye for a few years on lots of different models which is handy. I use the Cateye Volt 400 as my commuting light.


  • #9
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,764 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Cheers uphillonly. I was looking at that exact same light for use on that exact same hill and was wondering if it would do the trick. Can't get a more personalised review that that!


  • #10
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    Aldi have a one million candle power light at the moment for €20, couple of cable ties make an economical solution. Rechargeable too.


  • #11
    Trojan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    Cheers for the help folks! Decision made, I've ordered a 2015 MagicShine 858 (with the 4.4Ah battery by default). The 3.5 hour life at 1000 lumens sealed it.

    £59.99 plus €3.50 ParcelMotel = ~€88. Will let you know how it compares with the L&M ARC.

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



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  • #12
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Trojan wrote: »
    Cheers for the help folks! Decision made, I've ordered a 2015 MagicShine 858 (with the 4.4Ah battery by default). The 3.5 hour life at 1000 lumens sealed it.
    That's an off road light. MagicShine don't claim it is safe for road use.


  • #13
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,354 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    <snip>
    Do you ever stop to wonder if what you're about to post might be completely inane before firing it on up?

    Seriously. What's your deal?!?


  • #14
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    The Cateye 700 is more like 800 lumens and cheap, handy and easily recharged via usb.
    .

    Cateye are good for these type of lights as the reading for 700 is taken at the point the battery warning light comes on, unlike other similar style lights that take the reading at the highest point.

    In light tests, they are consistently above their stated output. So my 300 is only close to 300 at the moment the low battery light comes on and is above it before that happens.


  • #15
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,099 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Big ass-light.


  • #16
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Jeepers, the definition of what a "Big ass light" is seems to be quite low here...

    I think my NR Lumina 800 is just about adequate for the roads.. Off-road it's a backup light...


  • #17
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    buffalo wrote: »
    Big ass-light.
    http://www.bumm.de/ would be a good place to start.


  • #18
    wanderer 22
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭wanderer 22


    buffalo wrote: »
    Big ass-light[/URL].

    Slightly disappointing that googling big-ass light give results (mainly) SFW


  • #19
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Jeepers, the definition of what a "Big ass light" is seems to be quite low here...

    I think my NR Lumina 800 is just about adequate for the roads.. Off-road it's a backup light...
    One of the most powerful trail lights is the Exposure Six Pack, which has a claimed output of 4000 lumens (and Exposure is a very well regarded manufacturer, so I believe them).

    http://www.ultimatesportsengineering.com/exposure-lights/cycle-lights-2016/six-pack-mk6

    Its illumination has been measured as 4,710 lux @ 1m:

    http://www.torchythebatteryboy.com/p/bike-light-database.html

    This gives an equivalent viewangle of about 60 degrees according to this calculator:

    http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=19

    ...assuming constant illumination across the beam pattern, and (mathematically) 47 lux @ 10m.

    The most powerful (presumably SVTO-compliant) dynamo light from B&M, the IQ-X, has a claimed illumination of 100 lux @ 10m (and I don't disbelieve it).

    So the "big ass" 4000 lumen off-road light may produce only half the effective illumination of the pothole you're trying to avoid compared to the "small ass" few-hundred-lumen roadie light.

    This is why Strada produce road-specific lights, which have the mutual benefits of both putting the light where you need it on the road and not blinding oncoming traffic. You'd get a much worse view of the trees though.

    Using powerful off-road lights on the road is both dangerous and cunterproductive.

    edit: the centre-spot illumination of the NR Lumina 750 was measured by road.cc at 782 lux @ 2m, which is about 31 lux @ 10m, so assuming the 800 is a bit better it's not that far off the illumination of the Exposure Six Pack albeit with a much narrower beam.


  • #20
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    If I had my way i'd have the Lumina 800 and the older 750 on the bars, which had a strobe blinking mode, great for getting noticed by cars...!


  • #21
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    If I had my way i'd have the Lumina 800 and the older 750 on the bars, which had a strobe blinking mode, great for getting noticed by cars...!
    I find a cheap flasher is a good companion to a decent continuous light. Any old crap will do, even the coin-battery operated ones, whereas flashing high-intensity lights decrease safety.


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  • #22
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    I got a couple of years back a really big-ass light. It would be mental to use it on the streets, it would blind anyone and everyone around. For off-road it's fun because it illuminates the whole forest giving you creepy shadows all around the place.


  • #23
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Lumen wrote: »
    Using powerful off-road lights on the road is both dangerous and cunterproductive.

    +1 its like the people who fit HID lights themselves on their cars, who think they are great, they are not, they are never aligned, blinding and overall create an incredible danger to other road users.


  • #24
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    CramCycle wrote: »
    +1 its like the people who fit HID lights themselves on their cars, who think they are great, they are not, they are never aligned, blinding and overall create an incredible danger to other road users.
    I assume this is illegal since factory-fitted HIDs have to be self-levelling.


  • #25
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Lumen wrote: »
    I find a cheap flasher is a good companion to a decent continuous light. Any old crap will do, even the coin-battery operated ones, whereas flashing high-intensity lights decrease safety.

    That's a matter of opinion for sure!


  • #26
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Blinding oncoming traffic increases the risk of an accident


  • #27
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Blinding oncoming traffic increases the risk of an accident

    Sales page for the "Blackhawk Gladius".

    High-intensity crimefighting with next-generation strobe lights
    http://www.policeone.com/police-products/duty-gear/flashlights/articles/1353541-High-intensity-crimefighting-with-next-generation-strobe-lights/
    The latest technology is strobing lights. If you haven’t seen them, we’re talking about variations of small high-intensity lights that have strobing capability. Sounds cool of course, but the obvious question is: what benefits does strobing provide?

    Here are some of the claims made:
    1. Causes disorientation and blinding
    2. Causes peripheral vision disabling
    3. Limits the ability to get accurate fire on you
    4. Induces fear and/or indecision

    ...we’re all familiar with the blinding effect of 60 or more lumens in the eyes of a suspect


  • #28
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Great, no more road rage:
    Better yet, do so unexpectedly while they are trying to perform a moderately complex task—like attacking you. They will likely stop in their tracks


  • #29
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Great, no more road rage:
    No, just different road rage!


  • #30
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    It all depends what you want from a light. You'll want a different kind of light if you need to illuminate the road ahead, as with the old bullet-shaped bike lights with their visor to direct part of the beam downwards; or if you want oncoming drivers to see you among the other lights in traffic.


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  • #31
    Trojan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    Lumen wrote: »
    That's an off road light. MagicShine don't claim it is safe for road use.

    I'm ok with that. Technically I'll be using it on roads, but ... well what else would you use here?
    buffalo wrote: »
    Big ass-light.

    There's an xkcd for everything :)

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



  • #32
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Trojan wrote: »
    well what else would you use here?
    Anything you want :)

    Traffic aside, there are advantages and disadvantages of "floody" (wide-beam) lights on the road.

    Advantage: you get to see the sheep/pedestrians about to step into your path
    Disadvantage: greater total illumination means your iris closes, so you are less able to see the road even though it's got the same illumination.

    It comes down to the relative risks from sheep vs potholes, but most "throwy" lights (narrow beam) still have enough going out to the sides to see sheep.

    Or maybe you just like looking at sheep. I do.


  • #33
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Trojan wrote: »
    ]what else would you use here[/URL]?

    I did over 100km ride in dark Friday night, with at least 50km on that type of road.

    I was using a 60 lux dynamo b&m light. Never felt I needed more.

    I used a 330 Lumen back up light on a 100 Lumen setting going through urban areas, funnily enough where there was other light sources.

    The human eye is a complicated thing, more is often less.

    Given how much cyclist complain out lack of due respect/manners/rights on road maybe we should be a bit more thoughtful to other roads users with regard to lighting.

    Just because a technology is there doesn't mean we should use it.


  • #34
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Trojan wrote: »
    I'm ok with that. Technically I'll be using it on roads, but ... well what else would you use here?

    This:

    2nss8hy.jpg


  • #35
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    ford2600 wrote: »
    I was using a 60 lux dynamo b&m light. Never felt I needed more....The human eye is a complicated thing, more is often less.

    Screen_Shot_2015_11_27_at_12_20_28_p_m.png
    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux

    If you can move around your living room with 50 lux then you can see a pothole fine with 60.


  • #36
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    This
    Good example. If the wall wasn't illuminated then you could see the road better.


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  • #37
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Lumen wrote: »
    Good example. If the wall wasn't illuminated then you could see the road better.

    Or if I moved more to the right of the bend in the road?


  • #38
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Lumen wrote: »
    Anything you want :)

    Traffic aside, there are advantages and disadvantages of "floody" (wide-beam) lights on the road.

    Advantage: you get to see the sheep/pedestrians about to step into your path
    Disadvantage: greater total illumination means your iris closes, so you are less able to see the road even though it's got the same illumination.

    It comes down to the relative risks from sheep vs potholes, but most "throwy" lights (narrow beam) still have enough going out to the sides to see sheep.

    Or maybe you just like looking at sheep. I do.


    a floody light will have high lumens but poor lux. when it comes to bike lights they should standardise the measurement to lux


  • #39
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    ted1 wrote: »
    a floody light will have high lumens but poor lux. when it comes to bike lights they should standardise the measurement to lux

    What's the difference?


  • #40
    Darkglasses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,526 ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    What's the difference?

    AFAIK - Lumens are the total amount of light emitted by something. Lux is the amount of light intensity in a single spot.

    Neither unit tells the full story for what's the best bike light. A 60 Lux light might be great and spread light all over the road very evenly, or it might have an extremely narrow beam that's useless.


  • #41
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Lumen wrote: »
    I assume this is illegal since factory-fitted HIDs have to be self-levelling.

    I am talking about the people who pop down to halfords and pick up HIDs and then fit them incorrectly.

    Self levelling is only for cars that have the sensors etc. right?

    A young wan putting a pair in a 96 Honda Civic will not be self levelling, not sure about the legality of not being self levelling but the fact they are blinding or disorientating to on coming traffic on their own would make each specific instance illegal.


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  • #42
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    What's the difference?

    lumens is a measure of the total light giving off.
    so a ceiling lightbulb can be measured in lumens as it gives off a 360 degrees area of light.

    bike lights need to give a focus of light. so lux measure the light it gives off 1m away from the source.

    e.g a light may have 1000 lumens but this could be spread over 100 sqm and thus have a lux of only 10. in that it only 10 lumens per sq m.

    where as another light could have 200 lumens but that is spread over 2 sq m.
    so the lux would be 100. in that is has 100 lumens per sq m.

    so with regards cycling, LUX is a more relevant figure.

    candela-vs-lumens-vs-lux-500x438.jpg


  • #43
    Trojan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    Well the MagicShine 858 was out of stock, so I now have a new Fluxient 1xU2 XM-L2. Nice tidy piece of hardware, looking forward to giving it a go.

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



  • #44
    uphillonly
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭uphillonly


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Cheers uphillonly. I was looking at that exact same light for use on that exact same hill and was wondering if it would do the trick. Can't get a more personalised review that that!

    Leroy,

    Here's what the Cateye Volt 800 was like looking back down Pine Forest with Dublin's glow in the distance. You still wouldn't want to descend too fast. You can see clearly a few meters ahead but not far enough for speed and any animals.

    23271681391_cdf8720860.jpg


  • #45
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    uphillonly wrote: »
    23271681391_cdf8720860.jpg
    I presume it's angled wrong as my 300 throws out better than that.


  • #46
    uphillonly
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭uphillonly


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I presume it's angled wrong as my 300 throws out better than that.

    You may be right. It was my first time & I was self conscious of blinding cars so had it pointed down.


  • #47
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,764 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    uphillonly wrote: »
    Leroy,

    Here's what the Cateye Volt 800 was like looking back down Pine Forest with Dublin's glow in the distance. You still wouldn't want to descend too fast. You can see clearly a few meters ahead but not far enough for speed and any animals.

    I went with the Volt 800 in the end, based on what you posted, so if you read of some dude stuck in a ditch on Cruagh Road one night its on your head!!!

    Haven't used it on CR yet, but based on cycling in Sutton it is so much brighter than my previous light.

    I wouldn't have too many issues with descending too fast, can't even do that in the daytime!


  • #48
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    uphillonly wrote: »
    You may be right. It was my first time & I was self conscious of blinding cars so had it pointed down.

    I set mine up like the way you see people checking their cars before an NCT. Using a solid surface a few metres away and making sure that the core beam and most of the light is below the parallel of where I have the light attached.

    volt300_haiko2014.jpg

    Admittedly taken from the Cateye sight, I will take a pic of my own later and put it up. My own is not as far reaching, but that's my set up rather than anything else.

    Have they changed the name of the 300 and 700 to 400 and 800? They are 300 and 700 on the Cateye sight but lots of people referring to the 400 and 800.

    Cateyes pic of the 700 (which may be the 800):
    volt700_haiko2014.jpg

    Admittedly in both pics the light is angled far to high IMO so it won't be that good.


  • #49
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,141 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    At the risk of stating the obvious, if you want to know whether your light is angled too high, turn it on at night and look at it head on from 20m away at driver eyeball height.

    This is difficult to do with a dynamo light. :pac:


  • #50
    lescol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭lescol


    Some good comparisons on Torchy the Battery Boy website:-

    http://www.torchythebatteryboy.com/p/bike-light-database.html


  • #51
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Lumen wrote: »
    At the risk of stating the obvious, if you want to know whether your light is angled too high, turn it on at night and look at it head on from 20m away at driver eyeball height.

    This is difficult to do with a dynamo light. :pac:

    Or just turn your bike to face a wall with the light on


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