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Article: Planned Dublin metro line to cost more than €5bn

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    #92
    marmajam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭marmajam


    please please tell me how you'd do it.[/QUOTE]

    No.

    p.s. How come I'm always the 999,999th visitor?


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    #93
    constellation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭constellation


    To clarify: the GWB pic looking all confused was supposed to represent my own confusion over marmajam's post.

    Anywho, normal services will resume shortly....


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    #94
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Luas & Metro Plans for Dublin


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    #95
    strassenwolf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭strassenwolf


    I see that the latest plans for the interconnector involve running trains every three minutes in each direction through the tunnel. This is great news.

    It's clearly a sign that Irish Rail are beginning to understand the potential of this tunnel. Where first they were talking about 8 trains an hour - somewhere between a third and a quarter of the tunnel capacity, a position which was very much supported by P11 (those great infrastructure thinkers) -we're now up to 20 trains an hour. This is starting to approach the frequencies common in other cities, which was discussed earlier in the thread.

    Hopefully we will eventually see the tunnel used to its full capacity.

    I haven't had a detailed look at the latest plans, but I assume this means that Irish Rail have decided to put in extra platforms at Spencer Dock to facilitate the increased use of the tunnel.


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    #96
    OTK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭OTK


    how could 20 trains an hour fit on the northern line given that it shares with diesel intercities?


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    #97
    strassenwolf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭strassenwolf


    OTK wrote: »
    how could 20 trains an hour fit on the northern line given that it shares with diesel intercities?
    That's the point of putting in extra platforms at Spencer Dock. If you have extra platforms, you don't have to worry about what's happening on the Northern DART line.

    The original plans for 8 trains an hour were based on Irish Rail seeing the interconnector as a sort of extension of the Northern DART line. As they are not going to be able to go much above 8-10 trains an hour along the Northern DART line while it remains two-track, it seems that Irish Rail have finally understood that this should not be a limiting factor for the tunnel.

    It has taken them a while to understand this, and has been a clear indication of their inexperience in these matters.

    But I suppose better late than never.


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    #98
    OTK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭OTK


    makes sense now. thanks


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    #99
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,847 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    strassenwolf wrote: »
    The original plans for 8 trains an hour were based on Irish Rail seeing the interconnector as a sort of extension of the Northern DART line.
    Is that not still the case?
    Is the plan not to have Dart trains coming from Howth to be diverted to the Tunnel and on to Heuston/ Kildare?


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    #100
    markf909
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭markf909


    strassenwolf wrote: »

    It's clearly a sign that Irish Rail are beginning to understand the potential of this tunnel. Where first they were talking about 8 trains an hour - somewhere between a third and a quarter of the tunnel capacity, a position which was very much supported by P11 (those great infrastructure thinkers) -we're now up to 20 trains an hour. This is starting to approach the frequencies common in other cities, which was discussed earlier in the thread.

    Hopefully we will eventually see the tunnel used to its full capacity.

    The Irish Rail original plan was to have double decker trains every 5 mins through the tunnel.

    Never heard of it being as low as 8 trains an hour.
    Do you have a link for this please?


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    #101
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    markf909 wrote: »
    The Irish Rail original plan was to have double decker trains every 5 mins through the tunnel.

    Never heard of it being as low as 8 trains an hour.
    Do you have a link for this please?

    When I was involved in P11 this was the plan too. Not too sure when we were praising 8 trains an hour. :rolleyes:


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    #102
    strassenwolf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭strassenwolf


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    When I was involved in P11 this was the plan too. Not too sure when we were praising 8 trains an hour. :rolleyes:
    Probably no need for the eye-rolling, Paul. Were you involved with P11 just a few short years ago, when the organisation was vehemently opposed to the interconnector?


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    #103
    markf909
    Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭markf909


    Strassenwolf,

    Any sign of an answer to the question I asked?

    The reason I ask is that I attended the first talk IE gave on this, with a lot of other posters from here, 5 years ago in Earlsfort Terrace and the even then the least Irish Rail were talking about was 12tph hour double deckered.

    Where did the 8 trains per hour you mentioned come from?


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    #104
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    strassenwolf wrote: »
    Probably no need for the eye-rolling, Paul. Were you involved with P11 just a few short years ago, when the organisation was vehemently opposed to the interconnector?

    Yes, I was. Before the concept was understood, P11 were opposed to it as the Phoenix park tunnel was there, it would thought this could do the same purpose. Once the potential was realised, P11 were firmly behind the IC. We campaigned excessively for this and feel we helped get it media attention. Further, we were against the metro as we felt the DRP could do everything and more (this included 4 tracking the northern line, which was left out of T21. The only time P11 were against the IC was pre 2003 when it wasn't understood since about mid 2003 P11 were firmly behind it . But honestly, don't let facts stop you bashing them.


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    #105
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    Yes, I was. Before the concept was understood, P11 were opposed to it as the Phoenix park tunnel was there, it would thought this could do the same purpose. Once the potential was realised, P11 were firmly behind the IC. We campaigned excessively for this and feel we helped get it media attention. Further, we were against the metro as we felt the DRP could do everything and more (this included 4 tracking the northern line, which was left out of T21. The only time P11 were against the IC was pre 2003 when it wasn't understood since about mid 2003 P11 were firmly behind it . But honestly, don't let facts stop you bashing them.

    It was more of a case of Irish Rail's own secrecy back firing on them more than anything else.

    Irish Rail did a terrible job in the early years explaining what the interconenctor was. Everyone was dependent on media leaks which spoke of linking 'Connelly to Heuston' with a billion euro tunnel. It seemed absurd that all this money was being spent while a Luas link between the two was being built and the PPT sat idle. As soon as the Dublin Rail Plan in its entierity was spelled out it answered all the questions and it was a whole new ballgame.

    I have to laugh ironically now when I see the talk of Docklands being retained and expanded for IC trains as in many ways, everyone's dream has come true to some extent regardless of if you wanted a metro, Interconenctor, regional rail expansion, or better utilisation of the current network approach.

    That's why I remain an unashamed fan of Transport21 - the Interconnector, metro and my own d-connector idea. They all work well alone, but shine in tandem with one another.

    Gosh, I am a genius.


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    #106
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    It was more of a case of Irish Rail's own secrecy back firing on them more than anything else.

    Irish Rail did a terrible job in the early years explaining what the interconenctor was. Everyone was dependent on media leaks which spoke of linking 'Connelly to Heuston' with a billion euro tunnel. It seemed absurd that all this money was being spent while a Luas link between the two was being built and the PPT sat idle. As soon as the Dublin Rail Plan in its entierity was spelled out it answered all the questions and it was a whole new ballgame.

    I have to laugh ironically now when I see the talk of Docklands being retained and expanded for IC trains as in many ways, everyone's dream has come true to some extent regardless of if you wanted a metro, Interconenctor, regional rail expansion, or better utilisation of the current network approach.

    That's why I remain an unashamed fan of Transport21 - the Interconnector, metro and my own d-connector idea. They all work well alone, but shine in tandem with one another.

    Gosh, I am a genius.

    Yep, your explanation about IEs poor "marketing" of the interconnector circa 2003/4 is right on the money. It was perhaps our PPT campaign that forced them to "explain" to us mere mortals, what it really was all about. After that you couldn't really argue with it.

    But I do differ with you in terms of T21s possible success rate and the "d-connector", now simply known as the fecking phoenix park tunnel:D is still not on the future map of Dublins rail service. That continues to be a political manouvere and nothing else. But its a shame.

    As for the genius bit..........;)


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