Ireland v Scotland 6N 5pm

jayteecork · 24-02-2008 3:48am

So is Flannery's ban up for the next game?

We really need him in there I think. I have a lot of time for Jackman but he's had his chance and he blew it. Lineout is a shambles.
Amazing to think that a couple of years ago Ireland had an amazing lineout and a poor scrum.
Things have completely switched, but let's be fair - lineouts are far more vital than scrums.

jackbhoy · 24-02-2008 10:44am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Think I read that O'Driscoll was, before that Mal presumably. The entire line-out is a bloody mess

In my experience Drico does not call lineouts. For Leinster, he might give an input but its usually Cullen/Mal as Lockes that will make call, be surprised if DOC/MOD didn't call most of them yesterday, if they didn't then they should have, they have got to take on their share of leadership in the pack too. Agree that the buck rests with Jackman but the lineout didn't function fantastically well in WC when our first choice of DOC/POC and Flannery were involved so maybe they need to work on some simpler, easier to execute routines.

Its funny on this forum that people from Munster will always criticise Leinster players and vice versa, people from all sides hammer Murphy but very few say anything bad about their own provinces players. As a Leinster supporter I'd love to see Jackman play well for Ireland, and he hasn't done as bad as some on here say but think Flannery is more consistent if a little less effective as ball carrier, and should get his place back when ready.
It makes me laugh to read some comments like "if Dempsey played if would've been sh!te" or like above where MAL/Drico/Jackman are ones controlling lienout and by default must be responsible for it not functioning, I mean back some of these stupid statements up with examples/facts ffs!

toomevara · 24-02-2008 10:48am

çrash_000 wrote: »

who's making our lineout calls these days? Jackman may not have been throwing the best, but jesus, there's a lot more to be answered for in that lineout than the thrower. The scots should never have been up ahead of our lads.

Absolutely agree, its all very well shouting for the head of the unfortunate Jackman, but there was a distinct lack of movement in the Irish lineout, and seemed to be confusion regarding the calls. Hopefully the return of O'Connell will help things....

jackbhoy wrote: »

Its funny on this forum that people from Munster will always criticise Leinster players and vice versa, people from all sides hammer Murphy but very few say anything bad about their own provinces players.!

Oh God, please no..not another inter-provincial p1ssing contest....I couldn't care less where a player is from when he pulls on the green jersey and I think most contributers to this forum (odd knuckle dragger aside) feel the same......

jackbhoy · 24-02-2008 12:29pm

toomevara wrote:

I couldn't care less where a player is from when he pulls on the green jersey ......

Eh, that was my point, base opinions on facts and not on disliking individual players from rival provinces, if read through any thread on Rugby forum you'll see plenty of this bias around.....

toomevara · 24-02-2008 12:41pm

jackbhoy wrote: »

Eh, that was my point, .

Yes it was, should have read your post more closely...just a wee bit hungover this morn...apologies.

Diarmuid · 24-02-2008 12:50pm

athtrasna wrote: »

Would love to see Stringer back in for Reddan but we're more likely to have snow for the game than see that!

And for good reason. Reddan wipes the floor with 1D Stringer.

toomevara · 24-02-2008 1:00pm

athtrasna wrote: »

Would love to see Stringer back in for Reddan but we're more likely to have snow for the game than see that! .

Dear lord! Put away the crack pipe...please....(You're not a closet Welshman are you;))

chris85 · 24-02-2008 1:19pm

Diarmuid wrote: »

And for good reason. Reddan wipes the floor with 1D Stringer.

+1

Marshy · 24-02-2008 1:30pm

The announcer at the game yesterday was hilarious. Called Nathan Hines Matthew Hines and Euan Murray Evan Murray!

Zzippy · 24-02-2008 1:40pm

jayteecork wrote: »

So is Flannery's ban up for the next game?

We really need him in there I think. I have a lot of time for Jackman but he's had his chance and he blew it. Lineout is a shambles.
Amazing to think that a couple of years ago Ireland had an amazing lineout and a poor scrum.
Things have completely switched, but let's be fair - lineouts are far more vital than scrums.

His ban was up for this game but he has a hand injury. Should be ok for the next match. Really need his superior throwing - the lineout has been really poor so far.

Laslo · 24-02-2008 1:43pm

athtrasna wrote: »

Would love to see Stringer back in for Reddan

Why? Are you physically attracted to him or something?

And whoever was calling for BOD and Heaslip to be pulled off the squad - seriously, cop yourself on. The only real option for Number 8 and arguably the best defensive center in the world. Do you know anything about rugby?

remus808 · 24-02-2008 1:45pm

I'm a huge fan of Jackman, but I don't want to see him in at 2 again until Cullen is in there. (The Leinster lineout has been superb all season)

We're spoilt for choice for selections now, team should be very interesting for the next match. Big calls to be made all over the pitch.

phog · 24-02-2008 2:21pm

karmabass wrote: »

I'm a huge fan of Jackman, but I don't want to see him in at 2 again until Cullen is in there. (The Leinster lineout has been superb all season)
We're spoilt for choice for selections now, team should be very interesting for the next match. Big calls to be made all over the pitch.

So is it Cullen that is making Jackman look good?

Whatever you think of Jackman you cant have it that he plays when Cullen plays that way if Cullen was in the squad you could end up having to change 2 forwards everytime Cullen is unfit or not picked in the 22.

Crash · 24-02-2008 2:28pm

jackbhoy wrote: »

In my experience Drico does not call lineouts.

I think the person saying that meant Micko, not BOD

Laslo wrote: »

And whoever was calling for BOD and Heaslip to be pulled off the squad - seriously, cop yourself on. The only real option for Number 8 and arguably the best defensive center in the world. Do you know anything about rugby?

If that was the "heaslip off, easterby on" post, afaik he was actually listing the subs, not expressing an opinion. Keep it civil.

phog · 24-02-2008 2:28pm

Laslo wrote: »

Why? Are you physically attracted to him or something?

And whoever was calling for BOD and Heaslip to be pulled off the squad - seriously, cop yourself on. The only real option for Number 8 and arguably the best defensive center in the world. Do you know anything about rugby?

Are you happy with BOD's performance of late? Excuse yesterday as I think he carried an injury into the game but he cetainly is not the same attacking force he has been for Ireland, if he could be dropped and given the "kick in the behind" it might wake him up a bit. I remember Denis Hickie saying after he was dropped for a spell that freezing his ass of on the wings playing for Mary's made him improve to get back onto the Irish Squad.

All players need that motivation - none of them should feel that they walk onto the team.

markk06 · 24-02-2008 2:29pm

Santa Claus wrote: »

More like what a difference playing him in his natural position makes

The guy is one of the top 3 full backs in the premiership and possibly Europe and yet EOS keeps picking the swerve. Getting man of the match after being dropped from the squad is a nice 2 fingers to eddie from Geordan ! !

How do you figure?? O'Sullivan dropped him from the wing and his replacement scored two tries. Looks to me like Eddie got it right.

EdgarAllenPoo · 24-02-2008 2:39pm

The unforntunate thing about this match is that it may have been Jackmans's last, if not his last time in a green shirt certainly his last time to start.

I was a huge fan of his work with Leinster but it really does appear now that that was down more to Leo Cullen than Jackman, his throwing was brutal yesterday.

Nice to see O'Connell getting back to form, I wouldn't start him against Wales but he is the defintion of an impact sub. Paddy Wallace and Easterby were fairly useless and their pressence handicapped the point of having a subs bench when the coach is either afraid to bring them on or won't bring them on because they're useless. I don't know who would replace Wallace at this stage but we have plenty of replacement instead of Easterby, they should be used and he should retire.

Bowe, Murphy and Kearney all did very well. I'm still not sure about Mick O'Driscoll, maybe he suffered from Jackman's bad throwing but I'm not sold on him getting more than 30 minutes from the bench.

I also think Stringer should start against Wales if they pick Mike Phillips.

Punchbowl · 24-02-2008 3:20pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

The whole Murphy/Dempsey thing is probably reasonably academic anyway, as I imagine Kearney will be taking the position sooner rather than later.

I agree, once Horgan is fit again, he'll slot in at right and Bowe should move across to the left, although despite the tries yesterday, he had a relatively quiet game. Interesting though, we now have 3 near world class full backs, all of whom can provide excellent cover for the wings. With D'arcy back, and judging by Trimbles growing maturity, we will have 3 class centres.. Jackmans nerves were broken yesterday, and as much of a pity it is, he's not getting younger, so what's the point in continuing to give him a chance. I would still rotate O'Kelly with MOD as I think Mal suffered from Jackmans poor throwing against France..

RedorDead · 24-02-2008 4:17pm

Ireland have a fortnight to come up with a whole new set of lineout calls. Just seems every team has our calls nailed. At one stage yesterday scottish jumpers were up before our own on our calls.

Lineout problems were not all Jackmans fault. Yes he threw some of them badly but the Scots did brilliantly on our through. Id change all the calls and maybe give Jackman one more chance.

What about using some of the back row more as jumpers??

athtrasna · 24-02-2008 4:23pm

GDM wrote: »

I also think Stringer should start against Wales if they pick Mike Phillips.

At last a voice of reason!!

And no, I am not physically attracted to Stringer Laslo, what kind of crap are you talking??

What I like in Stringer is his terrier like attitude. He keeps nipping away at the big guys, always going after the ball, regardless of the size of the tackler or bodies over it.

I still don't understand how or why EOS opted for Reddan over Stringer having seen the Munster v Wasps game prior to announcing the panel. Stringer ran rings around Reddan in that game.

Reddan is a decent player but I think he's a little more laid back than Stringer and not what we need against Wales or England.

Sherifu · 24-02-2008 4:27pm

athtrasna wrote: »

What I like in Stringer is his terrier like attitude. He keeps nipping away at the big guys, always going after the ball, regardless of the size of the tackler or bodies over it.

I still don't understand how or why EOS opted for Reddan over Stringer having seen the Munster v Wasps game prior to announcing the panel. Stringer ran rings around Reddan in that game.

Reddan is a decent player but I think he's a little more laid back than Stringer and not what we need against Wales or England.

I wouldn't argue with Stringer's attitude or commitment at all but a predictable 1D scrummy is a weakness in a team. Reddan has more variation and tricks up his sleeve than Stringer. Being laid back is not a bad thing at all. It can bring a sense of calm to the team.
They're both good players in their own right but I can't fault EOS for picking Reddan, right call imo.

EdgarAllenPoo · 24-02-2008 4:29pm

I could be my imagination but I think I recognised some of the lineout calls myself, I think one or two have been used by both Munster and Ireland several times in the past.

Now whether the move that corresponds with the calls has changed, I don't know but if I can notice it I'm sure other teams have.

Laslo · 24-02-2008 5:00pm

phog wrote: »

Are you happy with BOD's performance of late?

Not his attacking performance, no. He's not breaking many lines and he's had a few handling errors (D'Arcy had the same problems) but he's immense defensively and has created more try scoring opportunities than anyone else on the team bar O'Gara. Are you saying he should be benched?

Stev_o · 24-02-2008 5:03pm

Tbh the logic of some people here is crazy. This whole "Oh Murphy did great because Scots were poor and didnt have a defence etc etc" By that logic BOD should have scored 10 tries! Look the backline wasnt particularly great with the exception of probably ROG Murphy and Trimble. Bowe took his two tries well but hardly got involved, Kearney showed defensively that he is safe. But other then that lads they did feck all.

I honestly think BOD should call it a day soon enough the fact his he failed to outplay a Winger who has hardly any experience in OC. He did one good thing and that was a lovely floated pass to Kearney but other then that he was useless. Trimble did extremely well involved in two tries and his breaking of the gain line was spot on.

Note. Did anyone else think it was extremely weird that ROG was getting Kearney to clear the lines kicking to the left hand side of the pitch. Why would you get a left footed kicker to kick left??? Madness

EdgarAllenPoo · 24-02-2008 5:12pm

Stev_o wrote: »

Note. Did anyone else think it was extremely weird that ROG was getting Kearney to clear the lines kicking to the left hand side of the pitch. Why would you get a left footed kicker to kick left??? Madness

Gets more distance on the kicks before they go into touch, it's also why Denis Hickie did it for Leinster and Ireland.

Amz · 24-02-2008 5:14pm

Perhaps the coach wanted Kearney to do that task.

Stev_o · 24-02-2008 5:14pm

GDM wrote: »

Gets more distance on the kicks before they go into touch, it's also why Denis Hickie did it for Leinster and Ireland.

Eh?? Right footed kickers always get better distance when kicking to the left and opposite for left footed kickers

Laslo · 24-02-2008 5:37pm

Stev_o wrote: »

I honestly think BOD should call it a day soon enough the fact his he failed to outplay a Winger who has hardly any experience in OC. He did one good thing and that was a lovely floated pass to Kearney but other then that he was useless.

Obviously all those tackles he made around the park (on other people's marks might I add) were a figment of my imagination. To say that BOD should call it a day is ridiculous.

Sangre · 24-02-2008 6:39pm

You know what really annoys me about the Murphy/Dempsey debate? People going on with absolute conviction that they're right when in reality they know nothing and are basing all these facts on reading a pundit once a week. I find this especially evident with the Murphy fans, I'm constantly hearing how he is world class for Leicester and crap for Ireland because of positioning and EOS fault. Of course when pushed these fans have never watched a GP match in their life and are basing this on nothing.

I think anyone with any grasp of rugby should realise there is a good argument to include both players.

Anyway, very good game for Murphy and I think his game should be reward with another match but I'd be very worried about playing him against the Welsh backs. We all know he is good in the air but thats not where he is defensively weak.

Hippo · 24-02-2008 6:48pm

Stev_o wrote: »

I honestly think BOD should call it a day soon enough the fact his he failed to outplay a Winger who has hardly any experience in OC. He did one good thing and that was a lovely floated pass to Kearney but other then that he was useless.

BOD was useless??!! This is amazing stuff, really.

Ireland v Scotland 6N 5pm

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