How to revive the Irish language.

treborflynn · 13-08-2012 4:11am

if them english shower of annoyin kunts didnt sabotage our language, and instill the need for fake tan and tight fukin jeans we wouldnt have this problem

paddyandy · 13-08-2012 11:39am

To revive the Irish language a gun is needed .....or a hefty bribe ...otherwise forget it .

gobnaitolunacy · 13-08-2012 11:41am

Ban it, and ppl will start using it out of spite.

Thatsfootball · 13-08-2012 12:07pm

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Ban it, and ppl will start using it out of spite.

Could be onto something!

Interest in History · 13-08-2012 1:57pm

paddyandy wrote: »

To revive the Irish language a gun is needed .....or a hefty bribe ...otherwise forget it .

The closest available equivalents have both been tried.

The Hefty Bribe: Originally, control of all state employment by the language masonry, still operating on a reduced basis. Patronage to the Chosen, e.g.10% extra in the Leaving Cert even now - straight corruption. Blanket condition of passing Irish to get into an NUI college.

The Gun: the nearest they got to this was the Christian Brother's boot, but at least that's now illegal.

Interest in History · 13-08-2012 2:05pm

NoHarm1994 wrote: »

Only problem with your point is that most teachers in Ireland cant speak Irish themselves.

Please be kind to teachers.

They, like everybody around them, come from an English-speaking nation. The only Irish they know is the packaged 'language' they have to acquire in order to land their employment contracts. They operate in an English-speaking world and that is their vernacular. There is no context in which Irish could become their vernacular, so your expectations of them cannot be fulfilled.

Normally teachers don't talk about this, as they don't want to tell lies. The position of the politicians is different, of course....

Birroc · 13-08-2012 2:22pm

My cousin earns an absolute fortune in Brussels translating or proof-reading EU documents in Irish. She knows very few (if anyone) will read the documents but she is minted so doesn't care. I went over recently and lived the good life on her expenses!

lufties · 13-08-2012 2:30pm

I have two little cousins in limerick going to an irish speaking primary school, why not have Irish speaking schools in the majority...Anyway there is obviously no political will for this, otherwise it would've been done years ago....Iceland has a population of half a million and Icelandic is their first language.

JohnMarston · 13-08-2012 2:38pm

lufties wrote: »

I have two little cousins in limerick going to an irish speaking primary school, why not have Irish speaking schools in the majority...Anyway there is obviously no political will for this, otherwise it would've been done years ago....Iceland has a population of half a million and Icelandic is their first language.

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

lufties · 13-08-2012 2:45pm

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

Proposing it would be a start...Although the government seem to be hellbent on doing nothing as regards change so i wouldnt hold my breath. Nice Monday daydream though:D

1ZRed · 13-08-2012 2:50pm

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

I went to an all Irish school in the Gaeltacht and we never spoke Irish, only in Irish class.
The problem is, is that the Irish standard in this country is terrible and trying to to subjects in the language itself is just tedious. The words used in place of English ones are just ridiculous.
So my class had a huge advantage in that we had fluent Irish and could do all the subjects (bar english obviously) in Irish to get the extra 10%. Hardly any of us did because it is just too difficult to grasp anything in lets say, biology as it was just a pain to read through and remember the proper terminology for every little thing.
I think I only did my Maths in Irish and that was just putting the odd Irish words in, eventhough we learned it through English. It's just not as productive or time efficient to do everything through Irish and I learned that I could do way better in English then I could if I did everything in Irish, even if I were to get that full 10% bonus.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-08-2012 2:51pm

lufties wrote: »

Proposing it would be a start...Although the government seem to be hellbent on doing nothing as regards change so i wouldnt hold my breath. Nice Monday daydream though:D

The problem with that is that not all kids learn Irish at home and will speak Irish before starting school. We are, like it or not, and English speaking country and that is unlikely to change any time soon, so trying to force some sort of change of that magnitude is just going to disrupt things massively, and it does nothign for the kids either.

gobnaitolunacy · 13-08-2012 2:54pm

If a pupil is a bit 'slow' in a subject taught thru English, he's going to be doubly-f**ked trying to do the thing thru Irish.

lufties · 13-08-2012 3:03pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The problem with that is that not all kids learn Irish at home and will speak Irish before starting school. We are, like it or not, and English speaking country and that is unlikely to change any time soon, so trying to force some sort of change of that magnitude is just going to disrupt things massively, and it does nothign for the kids either.

It doesnt have to be change of dictatorship proportions, but just bit by bit, get us in touch with our culture a bit, in an age of premiership football, tesco, corrie etc we have all but lost our identity in the world. If introducing the Irish language had some financial and political backing, something might happen.

Peetrik · 13-08-2012 3:05pm

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

Well they get paid for the summers they have off... why not just send them to 'teacher gaelteacht' for three weeks each summer, give them a taste of sitting through a boring lecture or two.

the_djoker · 13-08-2012 3:05pm

paullyons00 wrote: »

In my opinion, the only way we can possibly revive the Irish language to make it the first language of the people, business and pleasure, is as follows:

All citizens below the age of 30 and above the age of 17 have 5 years to reach an agreed level of fluency.

Each will be assessed through an oral and written exam at the end of those 5 years.

If the candidate does not pass on his/her first exam, they will be given a second chance to pass but at a higher pass mark.

Any candidate who fails the second exam should be stripped of their rights and citizenship and should face a hefty prison sentence.

This may seem autocratic or communist, but in my view its the only way we can revive the language or else it will die out in years to come.

I'd love to hear your opinions on my way of thinking and alternative views on how we should go about reviving the language.

F*ck off you Nazi fanatic PIG ....

Irish is a dead language . ACCEPT it.

It's not part of my culture (and 90%+ of this country) , so f*ck off with your nazi agenda in trying to force this piece of sh*t redneck gutter language on people.

Mod: Banned.

Cú Giobach · 13-08-2012 3:20pm

the_djoker wrote: »

F*ck off you Nazi fanatic PIG ....

Irish is a dead language . ACCEPT it.

It's not part of my culture (and 90%+ of this country) , so f*ck off with your nazi agenda in trying to force this piece of sh*t redneck gutter language on people.

tSíocháin a bheith in éineacht leat, a chara.

saiint · 13-08-2012 3:21pm

so what happens if we dont learn it to the level of your satisfactory sir? we get shipped to england?
irish language is ****, its basicly just randomly puttin letters together and the odd fancy foda and trying to pronounce it

Cú Giobach · 13-08-2012 3:24pm

saiint wrote: »

its basicly just random puttin letters to getter and the odd fancy foda and trying to pronounce it

:D:D:D:D

JohnMarston · 13-08-2012 3:24pm

saiint wrote: »

so what happens if we dont learn it to the level of your satisfactory sir? we get shipped to england?
irish language is ****, its basicly just random puttin letters to getter and the odd fancy foda and trying to pronounce it

You might want to stick with the english language before you move onto another one

SocSocPol · 13-08-2012 3:36pm

Perhaps many posters are confusing "revival" with replacing english as the day to day language of our country.
I speak a little Irish, not much, a cupla focail. I do believe that Irish can have a revival if people were encouraged to try and use it a little more, you know "Go raibh maith agat" instead of "cheers mate". Much of the problem with Irish is a fear of it because it was badly taught at school, if that fear could be replaced with a sense of pride in the fact that we do have a national language, and a quite distinct one at that, revival could be so much easier to accomplish.

saiint · 13-08-2012 3:40pm

JohnMarston wrote: »

You might want to stick with the english language before you move onto another one

this is ireland mate
sorry im not posh

and up to your level of english
you speak latin as well?

saiint · 13-08-2012 3:40pm

Cú Giobach wrote: »

:D:D:D:D

changed before you got in

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-08-2012 3:42pm

lufties wrote: »

It doesnt have to be change of dictatorship proportions, but just bit by bit, get us in touch with our culture a bit, in an age of premiership football, tesco, corrie etc we have all but lost our identity in the world. If introducing the Irish language had some financial and political backing, something might happen.

Never said it did, but it's a change that does the kids no benefit whatsoever. If they speak Irish, they speak Irish. If they don't, they don't. Why force them?

"Culture" and "identity" and the other buzzowrds that peopel use are usually poorly definied and irrelevant. What do these words mean and why ar they so important to six-year-olds?

Qualitymark · 13-08-2012 3:42pm

Abolish Irish self-hatred and people will want to speak the language, learn it, use it, develop it, love it.

purplepanda · 13-08-2012 3:43pm

I'd rather learn Yola first that's actually got some Irish words included & it would be much easier to start with

Cú Giobach · 13-08-2012 3:47pm

saiint wrote: »

changed before you got in

Since when did 15:28 pm come before 15:24 pm, your random use of letters is there in two quotes, for all the world to see for as long as these things remain on the internet.

SocSocPol · 13-08-2012 3:49pm

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Since when did 15:28 pm come before 15:24 pm, your random use of letters is there in two quotes, for all the world to see for as long as these things remain on the internet.

Maith an Fear:)

JohnMarston · 13-08-2012 3:53pm

saiint wrote: »

this is ireland mate
sorry im not posh and up to your level of english
you speak latin as well?

Apology accepted

No, i dont speak latin i'm afraid.

delthedriver · 13-08-2012 3:57pm

It is a complete waste of time learning Irish. The language should be given a respectful burial next New Years Eve . Schools could then move on and concentrate their efforts on teaching , German, French, Spanish and Chinese . these are the languages that young people will need in the future
I left Irish behind after Leaving School and never had cause to use it since.
We live in difficult Economic times, if there are cutbacks to be made in Education , it is time to shove Irish overboard.

NoHarm1994 · 13-08-2012 4:02pm

Interest in History wrote: »

Please be kind to teachers.

They, like everybody around them, come from an English-speaking nation. The only Irish they know is the packaged 'language' they have to acquire in order to land their employment contracts. They operate in an English-speaking world and that is their vernacular. There is no context in which Irish could become their vernacular, so your expectations of them cannot be fulfilled.

Normally teachers don't talk about this, as they don't want to tell lies. The position of the politicians is different, of course....

No disrespect to teachers was meant my only point was that if you dont have a teacher with a suitable standard themselves, it is very hard to grasp a language.

Also on another aspect I severely disliked Irish until I went to the gaeltacht in Galway. The way it is thought through ceol, comhra agus craic is the way forward. I know that the Irish colleges are very expensive and perhaps this is an issue which needs to be addressed. Subsidising these courses could help more young Irish people to see the language in a new fun way. It certainly worked for my own friends and I.

Grayson · 13-08-2012 4:12pm

is it really worth reviving irish? I can't see any reason beyond it being sentimental.

We force children to spend an hour a day learning it for 13-14 years. At the end of it, most of them learn off the Oral by rote and manage to pass that way.

If we stuck them all on treadmills for an hour a day we'd have the fittest population in europe and a few more Olympic medals. Stupid I know, but still a better use of their time.

LordSutch · 13-08-2012 4:23pm

I actually saw a Montessori 'As Gaeilge' advertised close to where we live. I ran it through with the wife just to see was there any chance that we might consider it. The building looks very nice and its very close to us, and this is what attracted me, but the firm answer was a big fat No from her, (not surprisingly I agreed), not in a hateful way, but after talking about it briefly we just couldnt see the need or the reason for it. Getting taught nursery rhymes in Irish and getting taught everything through Irish, only for the kids to come home and not see or hear any Irish until the following day

Needless to say our kids will go to an English speaking Mointressori, because that's what we speak at home, that's what our nursery rhymes are in at bed time, English is what their friends speak, etc etc, and that's what what our kids will speak as they grow up. Fair dues to the Irish speaking Montessori/Schools and I wish them well, but they're not practical for us.

NoHarm1994 · 13-08-2012 4:29pm

delthedriver wrote: »

It is a complete waste of time learning Irish. The language should be given a respectful burial next New Years Eve . Schools could then move on and concentrate their efforts on teaching , German, French, Spanish and Chinese . these are the languages that young people will need in the future
I left Irish behind after Leaving School and never had cause to use it since.
We live in difficult Economic times, if there are cutbacks to be made in Education , it is time to shove Irish overboard.

Fair enough point but it is part of our history and heritage! From your logic we shouldnt play Hurling because on an international level its not the norm / an olympic game? We dont speak irish for its practicality we speak it because it makes us unique. To get rid of it completely would be a disaster in my opinion.

lufties · 13-08-2012 4:35pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

It doesnt have to be change of dictatorship proportions, but just bit by bit, get us in touch with our culture a bit, in an age of premiership football, tesco, corrie etc we have all but lost our identity in the world. If introducing the Irish language had some financial and political backing, something might happen.

Never said it did, but it's a change that does the kids no benefit whatsoever. If they speak Irish, they speak Irish. If they don't, they don't. Why force them?

"Culture" and "identity" and the other buzzowrds that peopel use are usually poorly definied and irrelevant. What do these words mean and why ar they so important to six-year-olds?

Well judging on your spelling, you barely have a grasp on English never mind anything else.

These are not 'buzzwords' as you call them. They are words that are important to us when embracing our heritage, what the hell does anyone know as a six year old...your reply is ridiculous altogether...the whole point of an 'education' is a human development over time.

thomasj · 13-08-2012 4:36pm

If people are going to want to learn Irish there is going to have to be a fun way to learn it.

I have too many horrible memories of learning Irish, it was forced upon too much.

NoHarm1994 · 13-08-2012 4:43pm

By the way anyone interested in looking at an Irish social networking site check out http://abairleat.kontain.com/ .... it was made by colaiste lurgan and its good stuff

Grayson · 13-08-2012 4:51pm

NoHarm1994 wrote: »

Fair enough point but it is part of our history and heritage! From your logic we shouldnt play Hurling because on an international level its not the norm / an olympic game? We dont speak irish for its practicality we speak it because it makes us unique. To get rid of it completely would be a disaster in my opinion.

Hurling is a sport. It's voluntary. It's not compulsory. It doesn't take up about one eight of a students class time.

I believe students should be taught history to a certain level. But that doesn't mean they have to speak Irish. Most of the people I know who are well versed in irish history don't speak irish.

There's really no practical reason for speaking it. Just sentimental and political reasons.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-08-2012 4:55pm

lufties wrote: »

Well judging on your spelling, you barely have a grasp on English never mind anything else.

These are not 'buzzwords' as you call them. They are words that are important to us when embracing our heritage, what the hell does anyone know as a six year old...your reply is ridiculous altogether...the whole point of an 'education' is a human development over time.

Oh goody.., a proofreader. I assure you that my grasp of the English language is quite adequate for the task at hand and, in the event it were not so, trying to assertain such qualities, or lack thereof, from one post would be sincerely erroneous.

But we digress.

As for the buzzords, which you still fail to define, they may be important to you personally, but are you sure you speak for the rest of us? If so, your own grasp of English can said to be at odds, as you ssem to consistantly mixing up the first person singular and fourth person plural pronouns. As you are unlikely to be speaking for the majority of six-year-olds, perhaps you could tell me why you think that the concepts of "nationality" and "heritage" important to six-year-olds? Why should they take more pride from their birthplace ehan from their personal achievements or their positive characteristics?

One would think that the point of education would be the teaching the devlopement of, at firs, life skills, and following on from that, the ability to rationally think and develope arguments and viewpoints. In otherwoards, to delevope the human but not the nation or the language over time.

(Not proofread, so don't bother pointing out the typos)

Qualitymark · 13-08-2012 5:01pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

fourth person plural pronouns)

What's the fourth person plural, please?

delthedriver · 13-08-2012 5:11pm

Yes, but hurling is a sport,which one may choose to play or not. As a keen sportsman I am in favour of young people playing team sports as part of their development.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-08-2012 5:14pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

What's the fourth person plural, please?

Comment on the point I was making...? Read the very last line?

Interest in History · 13-08-2012 5:19pm

Birroc wrote: »

My cousin earns an absolute fortune in Brussels translating or proof-reading EU documents in Irish. She knows very few (if anyone) will read the documents but she is minted so doesn't care. I went over recently and lived the good life on her expenses!

Irish officialdom has layers of corruption, it's just they don't call it corruption. And after all - The State that they ran did actually fail in the end, and the corruption was the reason. And as you describe, it is their main export to the administration of the European Union.

lufties · 13-08-2012 5:19pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

Well judging on your spelling, you barely have a grasp on English never mind anything else.

These are not 'buzzwords' as you call them. They are words that are important to us when embracing our heritage, what the hell does anyone know as a six year old...your reply is ridiculous altogether...the whole point of an 'education' is a human development over time.

Oh goody.., a proofreader. I assure you that my grasp of the English language is quite adequate for the task at hand and, in the event it were not so, trying to assertain such qualities, or lack thereof, from one post would be sincerely erroneous.

But we digress.

As for the buzzords, which you still fail to define, they may be important to you personally, but are you sure you speak for the rest of us? If so, your own grasp of English can said to be at odds, as you ssem to consistantly mixing up the first person singular and fourth person plural pronouns. As you are unlikely to be speaking for the majority of six-year-olds, perhaps you could tell me why you think that the concepts of "nationality" and "heritage" important to six-year-olds? Why should they take more pride from their birthplace ehan from their personal achievements or their positive characteristics?

One would think that the point of education would be the teaching the devlopement of, at firs, life skills, and following on from that, the ability to rationally think and develope arguments and viewpoints. In otherwoards, to delevope the human but not the nation or the language over time.

(Not proofread, so don't bother pointing out the typos)

For god's sake, have you never heard of the words, culture,heritage, identity? If so, the you'll know that language is part of these, our method of communication, like the food we eat,the sport we play etc..what's the point in teaching kids how to play gaa, other than its an integral part of our heritage that we need to preserve,

How come so many other countries that were colonized by the English, retain their original lingo? India, Malaysia to name a few. I honestly cannot understand your reasoning..in most countries bar UK and 'the new world' English is a second or third language.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 13-08-2012 5:25pm

The only way to revive the language is to ban it from being taught and remove all irish speaking programmes from tv. Everyone knows that when something is banned/outlawed it increases it's popularity ten fold and everyone will up in arms about it and going it on their own to learn and speak it. Then they can threaten to tax every word spoken and that will increase its use even more!!

Qualitymark · 13-08-2012 5:27pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Comment on the point I was making...? Read the very last line?

I'm not commenting, I'm asking a question. You talk about the fourth person plural; I'd like to know what that means.

Interest in History · 13-08-2012 5:31pm

SocSocPol wrote: »

.....Much of the problem with Irish is a fear of it because it was badly taught at school, if that fear could be replaced with a sense of pride in the fact that we do have a national language...

Suppose we referred to Irish as our "Official" language rather than as our "National" language. It is supported by government as a symbol of our independent State, and that will always be. But this is done simply as a matter of he symbolism of the then new government. It#s not about speaking it.

Use as a symbol does not require anybody to use Irish as a vernacular, as we know. A confusuon between what is symbolism and what is reality is the reason that this confused debate has been going on since 1922. It's time to cut through it.

The confusion could be ended by making Irish a subject of choice in the Leaving Cert because then the real public appitite for Irish as a language could be gauged. But the politicians know that allowing this would blow their cover as the custodians of the True Gaelic Nation after the manner of Pádriag Pearse, so they own't do it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-08-2012 5:42pm

lufties wrote: »

For god's sake, have you never heard of the words, culture,heritage, identity? If so, the you'll know that language is part of these, our method of communication, like the food we eat,the sport we play etc..what's the point in teaching kids how to play gaa, other than its an integral part of our heritage that we need to preserve,

.

I was requesting your versions of how they should be difined and how useful such attirbutes would be to young children ahead of thir own individual personalities. Yoru post does not tell me this. It assumes that children should be used as tools to preserve old habits and traditions, but that does this do for the children?

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'm not commenting, I'm asking a question. You talk about the fourth person plural; I'd like to know what that means.

If you're not commenting then why post? Why try to drag the thread off topic?

(Again - not proofread)

RandomName2 · 13-08-2012 5:43pm

paullyons00 wrote: »

In my opinion, the only way we can possibly revive the Irish language to make it the first language of the people, business and pleasure, is as follows:

This may seem autocratic or communist, but in my view its the only way we can revive the language or else it will die out in years to come.

Don't worry man!

It's not at all communist at all. Communism doesn't want any barriers of national identity, or one culture placed above another. It wants everyone to be equal: no religion or language divides at all.

What you are describing is fascist.

Qualitymark · 13-08-2012 5:49pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Don't worry man!

It's not at all communist at all. Communism doesn't want any barriers of national identity, or one culture placed above another. It wants everyone to be equal: no religion or language divides at all.

What you are describing is fascist.

It's fascist to want to preserve languages? Heavens, who knew!

How to revive the Irish language.

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