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A discussion on the rules.

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    #632
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The same tirades are unleashed against the political left; you yourself have lashed the ULA and their fellow-travelers - repeatedly - in this forum (and just because it's pithy doesn't mean it's not vitriolic). Taking it a step further, the Irish public doesn't seem to have a great deal of patience for extremists on either side of the political spectrum, so let's not get touchy when they turn on your side of the dial.

    I would also add that there seems to be a special brand of vitriol reserved for republicans, not all of whom are ex-Provos or the (wo)men that love them.

    Nobody likes it when their particular hobby horse is kicked over, but such is life.


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    #633
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,043 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Nodin wrote: »
    Who or what are "countries such as Ireland"?

    Are you trying to intimate that countries where theres a right of centre national consensus are free of 'vitrolic abusive tirades'?
    Every culture has abusive tirades, I think the difference being highlighted was that it's deemed appropriate in polite conversation to abuse the Right in cultures like Ireland's. Either way I think the point you're trying to make is a non sequitur. The only point here is that in Ireland it's socially acceptable to bash members of the Right just as it's socially acceptable in America to bash Libertarians and Atheists.


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    #634
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Overheal wrote: »
    Every culture has abusive tirades, I think the difference being highlighted was that it's deemed appropriate in polite conversation to abuse the Right in cultures like Ireland's. Either way I think the point you're trying to make is a non sequitur. The only point here is that in Ireland it's socially acceptable to bash members of the Right just as it's socially acceptable in America to bash Libertarians and Atheists.

    In 'American' discussions (and indeed Australian), many from each and every side feel free to wade in. The idea that theres something unique about Irish discourse in this regard is rather ludicrous.


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    #635
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #636
    davoxx
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    by criticism do you mean people saying that all lefties are smelly hippies who study arts and are therefore stupid?

    it's all subjective is it not? but the standards are not applied equally across the board in my opinion ...
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    only because they say silly, borderline stupid, things ...
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    anyone that shouts "F*** you, George Bush!" is a hero or a terrorist to different people ... :)


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    #637
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    You obviously haven't been reading that many threads involving same.....in fact I'm beginning to think that you are in fact taking the piss.
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    No, it was not, nor anything like it.


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    #638
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    If there were no appetite for potshots at the left (or lefty organizations) in Ireland, pundits like Kevin Myers (indeed half of the talking heads at the Indo) would have no career at all!

    And of course the left gets less abuse than the center-right: the left has never actually held power in Ireland. Mary Harney, the PDs and Fianna Fail got heaps of abuse because they had actual power and essentially ran the country into the ground. Even then, whenever Labour gets within smelling distance of goverment, there is great moaning and gnashing of teeth about socialists, Stalinists, the Workers Party, etc (if I remember correctly, you were leading that charge in this forum as well). And yet they have tended to surprise in office; Ruari Quinn was a far more responsible Finance Minister than Bertie Ahern or, god help us, Brian Cowen ever was.

    If Gilmore, Burton, Quinn & Co had been in charge from 1997-2010, they would be just as villified as Harney & Co. But they weren't. So as fun as it is to moan about how one 'side' in Irish politics gets a pass on criticism, the reality of the situation is, that side has been a relatively impotent force in Irish politics for the last decade, and thus have largely escaped the wrath of the public.

    As for Gogarty, well, that outburst was frankly the least of his problems.


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    #639
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,043 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    davoxx wrote: »
    by criticism do you mean people saying that all lefties are smelly hippies who study arts and are therefore stupid?
    Nobody said that. I challenge you to prove me wrong.


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    #640
    davoxx
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Overheal wrote: »
    Nobody said that. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
    oh a challenge? dare i accept? what are the conditions? what do i win?
    does the victor doth the spoils of war belong?

    can you prove that nobody has said that?


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    #641
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Overheal wrote: »
    Nobody said that. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
    davoxx wrote: »
    oh a challenge? dare i accept? what are the conditions? what do i win?
    does the victor doth the spoils of war belong?

    can you prove that nobody has said that?
    I think you can take that as a concession, Overheal.


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    #642
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,043 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    can you prove that nobody has said that?

    My body of evidence. I rest my case. Your rebuttal?


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    #643
    davoxx
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Overheal wrote: »
    My body of evidence. I rest my case. Your rebuttal?
    good man, you've won the internet ... or have you?

    you lost: answer

    i have clearly shown that someone had said that, thus winning your challenge.

    so, will you now close your account on boards and never comeback??


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    #644
    davoxx
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I think you can take that as a concession, Overheal.
    he can take it whatever way he wants, but it was not a concession ... i have no idea how you even took it to be that ...


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    #645
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,043 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I accept your apology.


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    #646
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    I think this one has really gone far enough.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #647
    davoxx
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    but i must say overheal's pointless baiting challenge illustrates the problem that many posters face here, and from a mod none the less ...
    davoxx wrote: »
    by criticism do you mean people saying that all lefties are smelly hippies who study arts and are therefore stupid?
    Overheal wrote: »
    Nobody said that. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
    you'll note that i never said that anyone said that, i said that by way of an example.

    (i'll have to jump in here on grammar, seems there is confusion here: had i said "do you mean when people said" then it can be correctly inferred that i am claiming it was said, while "do you mean people saying" makes no claim on whether it was said or not.)

    though overheal did say that nobody said it which leads to ...
    Overheal wrote: »
    I accept your apology.
    surely he must know that 1>0

    so just to clarify "1 results" means that it was found in the body of evidence as overheal himself provided.

    if nobody said it, the count would be zero.

    this is basic logic, although it might explain all the other bad arguments, but that is no excuse ...

    i expected more from a mod, maybe this was the problem?


    your welcome .. isn't learning fun!! :D


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    #648
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Arguing over petty details to prove a point is part of the problem too.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #649
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Let me reiterate that for davoxx's benefit. This is not relevant, and any further dragging out of it to prove that anyone scored any points there will be met with sanctions.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #650
    bedrock#1
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭bedrock#1


    Reply to bluewolf on "my" thread....

    1 politics is not a news dump. you want a discussion, start discussing

    The discussion hadn't started, you killed it.

    2 we have a million israel threads already and that was descending into messing around

    Unfortunately people who are only interested in mud slinging have access to the same forum as people who want to have a reasoned intelligent discussion - in this situation do you-

    A- Sanction posters who sling mud -

    or-

    B- Remove the discussion entirely thereby denying genuine people discussing important issues ??


    3 if you want to discuss moderation PM the relevant mod who locked "your" thread, or post in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...9#post75295089

    Posted here....

    thanks

    Will be using politics.ie from now on, they have managed 27 pages of posts without the need to close a thread on Israel ......


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    #651
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Just out of interest, seeing as you've posted a sum total of 4 times in this forum, would it be safe to assume that you are more a reader of the forum than a poster?

    In any case, we do try and set a standard for threads from the very beginning. This sometimes means that threds get nipped in the bud. The OP of any thread here, needs to be of sufficient standard to warrant staying open.


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    #652
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    there's plenty of discussion on israel

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056439268

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056309460


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    In any case, we do try and set a standard for threads from the very beginning. This sometimes means that threds get nipped in the bud. The OP of any thread here, needs to be of sufficient standard to warrant staying open.
    Exactly. and a one-liner under a link generally doesn't cut it.


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    #653
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    bluewolf wrote: »
    there's plenty of discussion on israel

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056439268

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056309460


    Exactly. and a one-liner under a link generally doesn't cut it.

    In fairness it would be off-topic in either of those threads. I do think the OP was probably not good enough as OP and the mods are being consistent in this regard but the post doesn't belong in the other Israel threads either really.


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    #654
    bedrock#1
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭bedrock#1


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    Just out of interest, seeing as you've posted a sum total of 4 times in this forum, would it be safe to assume that you are more a reader of the forum than a poster?

    In any case, we do try and set a standard for threads from the very beginning. This sometimes means that threds get nipped in the bud. The OP of any thread here, needs to be of sufficient standard to warrant staying open.

    so in your infinitely wise opinion the number of posts I have made in the past means I have no right to post now or in the future??

    Or perhaps my posts don't deserve the same respect as others?


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    #655
    bedrock#1
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭bedrock#1


    bluewolf wrote: »
    there's plenty of discussion on israel

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056439268

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056309460




    Exactly. and a one-liner under a link generally doesn't cut it.

    Why exactly?? there doesn't seem to me to be a logical reason for this.

    There is no set formula for beginning discussions. The strength of the post in and of itself can be enough to begin a quality discussion. Which brings me back to my original point -

    Mods should ban trouble makers and stop suppressing open debate by people who have something they feel like they must say.

    Just like Dr.G above..... Maybe if he had critically assessed my post he might have concluded that yes I have only posted 4 times (more actually but the threads have disappeared - like the politics in school one from 2 days ago), the fact I felt compelled to log in a contribute might mean I have a genuine point to make......

    Get a grip folks....


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    #656
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    bedrock#1 wrote: »
    so in your infinitely wise opinion the number of posts I have made in the past means I have no right to post now or in the future??

    Who said you didn't have a right to post? If you didn't have a right to post, you'd be banned from the forum, and you don't look banned to me.


    In any case, the charter clearly states what's acceptable:
    Topics should be relevant to the politics board.

    Topics should not be verbatim quotes from some article without comment from the thread starter. Add a comment before or after the post, offering your opinion on the subject, or at the very least, your reason for adding the topic.

    Please remember that we are not a blog, a news feed nor an announcement forum - if you are not willing to discuss what you post, then please don't post it.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055516094

    If you want to start up a new thread on israel that doesn't belong in the others (which I was just quoting as an example of israel threads that have plenty of discussion) then do so, just put a bit of substance into it and we can go from there. One liner OPs often lead to a string of one-liner posts without any discussion, and I'm not banning everyone for following an OP's lead.
    We can hardly be accused of suppressing debate when there was no debate to suppress in the first place.


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    #657
    bedrock#1
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭bedrock#1


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Who said you didn't have a right to post? If you didn't have a right to post, you'd be banned from the forum, and you don't look banned to me.

    Why then does my posting record have anything to with this discussion? It doesn't even deserve a mention, yet it was the first line of the other mod Dr.Galen's post.....

    bluewolf wrote: »
    In any case, the charter clearly states what's acceptable:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055516094

    If you want to start up a new thread on israel that doesn't belong in the others (which I was just quoting as an example of israel threads that have plenty of discussion) then do so, just put a bit of substance into it and we can go from there. One liner OPs often lead to a string of one-liner posts without any discussion, and I'm not banning everyone for following an OP's lead.
    We can hardly be accused of suppressing debate when there was no debate to suppress in the first place.

    The thread in question did begin with a one line post but the reason given for closing it wasn't to do with that. It was the personal opinion of the mod that

    Dr GalenThis won't end well, so let's just end it now, before it all gets out of hand

    OP - A "witty" one liner does not an OP make, Bear that in mind for future threads

    The OP wasn't "witty" (white phosphorus is anything but witty) and the fact it might have gotten out of hand seems to me to be more a reflection of the mods on this forum not being capable of keeping threads on track.

    Or god-forbid adults might make their own mind up about which threads to reply to and which ones not to.... :eek:


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    #658
    Duke Leonal Felmet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭Duke Leonal Felmet


    Without reading the whole thread, here is my view. You could have a three tier general politics forum.

    1) Politics Cafe - Lightly modded, bit of a laugh

    2) Politics - As it is now, with veiled personal insults the norm

    3) Politics Serious - Strictly modded. Any veiled insults, baseless statements with no evidence or link or generalising 'lefties are idiots, etc' leads to lengthy ban. The aim is to facilitate civil discourse without it being derailed by hysterical drama queens.

    I'd imagine this has been suggested already, but so many pages...


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    #659
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    bedrock#1 wrote: »
    Why then does my posting record have anything to with this discussion? It doesn't even deserve a mention, yet it was the first line of the other mod Dr.Galen's post.....

    I'm merely interested, as the opinion of someone who doesn't post very much, but reads a the forum a lot, could be very different to that of someone who posts 50 times day. Doesn't make it better or worse, just different, and generally differences of opinion are a good thing.


    The thread in question did begin with a one line post but the reason given for closing it wasn't to do with that. It was the personal opinion of the mod that

    Dr GalenThis won't end well, so let's just end it now, before it all gets out of hand

    OP - A "witty" one liner does not an OP make, Bear that in mind for future threads


    You've quoted my post, which outlines the 2 reasons for closing the thread though. When before the first page is out, we can see the usual trenches being dug and manned in these types of threads, we know how they are going to end up. Nipping these in the bud is actually what moderating is all about. It's not about riding in on the white charger, 14 pages in, and lashing out the ban-hammer, medieval style, and throwing out a load of people.
    The OP wasn't "witty" (white phosphorus is anything but witty) and the fact it might have gotten out of hand seems to me to be more a reflection of the mods on this forum not being capable of keeping threads on track.

    Or god-forbid adults might make their own mind up about which threads to reply to and which ones not to.... :eek:

    This forum is not a braindump for posters to come in and create threads about whatever takes their fancy. If people want to do that the, as many a better Mod/Admin has said, get a blog.

    Other than that, I've no issue with any threads, regardless of my own political views.


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    #660
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    " Don't be a dick. "
    If moderator s are going to be posting this kind of comment to the applause of other mods, then it is time for moderators to take a good hard look at themsleves.
    The term ' Moderator' should at least imply moderators refrain from abusive vulgarities.


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    #661
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    anymore wrote: »
    " Don't be a dick. "
    If moderator s are going to be posting this kind of comment to the applause of other mods, then it is time for moderators to take a good hard look at themsleves.
    The term ' Moderator' should at least imply moderators refrain from abusive vulgarities.
    If you consider a widely-used Internet meme such as "don't be a dick" to be an abusive vulgarity, perhaps you could do with some introspection of your own.


This discussion has been closed.
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