Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Jack Noble · 13-02-2011 11:54am

lods wrote: »

We'll see this week Jack, who's clutching at straws

Can't wait.

If the next govt decides Metro is going ahead there is nothing the junk man and his hangers on can do about it.

And if Metro construction succeeds in driving his tacky shops from O'Connell Street then that will be a bonus - they're a national embarrassment.

monument · 13-02-2011 1:25pm

lods wrote: »

I think the attitude of Business in the city centre has changed since the disastrous christmas. I'd expect a lot of the bigger hitters to start becoming more vocal about the effects on trade in the city centre, particularly during the enabling works.

Being vocal about affects does not mean always being against the project overall.

Business groups have been very vocal in the past without being against the project overall. Some people mix up the idea of protecting their business and being against a project altogether.

Article from the Irish Examiner, on Thursday, February 03, 2011:

The Chamber [the Dublin Chamber of Commerce] has also called for a commitment from the next government to invest in key infrastructure projects to ensure that Dublin is an attractive and competitive location for business.

This includes the swift delivery of the DART underground and Metro North, sustained investment in next generation broadband, a second run way at Dublin airport, an upgraded water distribution network, a waste to energy facility in Poolbeg and the delivery of the Grangegorman Campus.

lods · 13-02-2011 2:32pm

monument wrote: »

Being vocal about affects does not mean always being against the project overall.

Business groups have been very vocal in the past without being against the project overall. Some people mix up the idea of protecting their business and being against a project altogether.

Article from the Irish Examiner, on Thursday, February 03, 2011:

The chamber is made up of big business, most of which aren't in Dublin City or in the case of HP even the County. its council includes companies who advise on PPP's & those who benefit from them & all the major banks. Bam Construction built the Luas extension to City west & HP who have been awarded the Integrated ticketing contract by the RPA.With exception of PJ Timmons there no retailers , publicans or hoteliers on the council

http://www.dubchamber.ie/council.asp

NITransport · 13-02-2011 6:16pm

The benefits that would arise from Metro North would far exceed the loses if Carrolls Shut-up-shop. Those stores only sell the same tack that you can get anywhere in Ireland; from Derry - Belfast - Dublin - Cork... all you find is the same Black Sheep Range made in china. Authentic Ireland alright.

What's more embarressing than those shops though, is the fact that we're the only real small country in Europe that still doesn't have a metro system. Vienna, Helsinki, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Glasgow!?! all have ones, and we have to fear that one line won't get the go ahead. Although I think I would prioritise a southern section or a circular route over the Metro West. And I wish the project wasn't called "Metro North" cause it's only going to cause hassle later in life when the system eventually expands. What's wrong with Metro 1, eh?

NT

donvito99 · 13-02-2011 7:01pm

Jack Noble wrote: »

Can't wait.

If the next govt decides Metro is going ahead there is nothing the junk man and his hangers on can do about it.

And if Metro construction succeeds in driving his tacky shops from O'Connell Street then that will be a bonus - they're a national embarrassment.

The words 'hitting', 'nail' and 'head' also come to mind here!

I can't wait to be able to walk down Westmoreland St and see all the tack and filth gotten rid of.

Dublin has much more potential with Metro North.

Zebra3 · 13-02-2011 7:47pm

monument wrote: »

Being vocal about affects does not mean always being against the project overall.

Business groups have been very vocal in the past without being against the project overall. Some people mix up the idea of protecting their business and being against a project altogether.

Very true, look at all the hulabulloo (sp?

) about the Docklands extension of the Luas Red Line.

Talk of putting in a dedicated busway, power cuts, etc and it all worked out well in the end.

Now I'm also aware of the difference in scale between the two projects....

dowlingm · 14-02-2011 6:21am

NITransport wrote: »

What's more embarressing than those shops though, is the fact that we're the only real small country in Europe that still doesn't have a metro system. Vienna, Helsinki, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Glasgow!?! all have ones

I find this sort of todger-measuring tiresome, the same as when people bemoan that there's no train to the airport compared to so-and-so or so-and-so. That kind of thinking got us benchmarking and the other delusions of grandeur from the last decade.

The only issue that matters is whether the ridership along the corridor can justify the investment and whether the project integrates with an overall transportation system. Metro can work - if DB buses are banned from running even vaguely parallel to it and indeed feed custom to the line with blended fares. However the reality is that financing is key. You have one consortium which has a bank dead in the water as financier -a bank which is almost certain to default on bonds in the next 12 months. There seems to be a question over Barclays Private's position in the other one (the docs which mention this are behind paywalls). Even if government gave a go-ahead there is a serious question mark over whether the consortia would proceed in the current environment.

lods · 14-02-2011 9:10am

dowlingm wrote: »

I find this sort of todger-measuring tiresome, the same as when people bemoan that there's no train to the airport compared to so-and-so or so-and-so. That kind of thinking got us benchmarking and the other delusions of grandeur from the last decade.

The only issue that matters is whether the ridership along the corridor can justify the investment and whether the project integrates with an overall transportation system. Metro can work - if DB buses are banned from running even vaguely parallel to it and indeed feed custom to the line with blended fares. However the reality is that financing is key. You have one consortium which has a bank dead in the water as financier -a bank which is almost certain to default on bonds in the next 12 months. There seems to be a question over Barclays Private's position in the other one (the docs which mention this are behind paywalls). Even if government gave a go-ahead there is a serious question mark over whether the consortia would proceed in the current environment.

This is the reason why the enabling works should not proceed until all the funding is in place & its clear that the project will proceed.

NITransport · 14-02-2011 9:44am

dowlingm wrote: »

I find this sort of todger-measuring tiresome, the same as when people bemoan that there's no train to the airport compared to so-and-so or so-and-so. That kind of thinking got us benchmarking and the other delusions of grandeur from the last decade.

The introduction of basic infrastructure shouldn't be seen as some grandiose scheme. Yes it may have been conceived in the era of budget surplus, but it's still need. Dublin has all but started it's recovery in passenger numbers (excluding the blip with Aer Lingus staff). And it will serve all those living along the line.

As for the todger-measuring, if we don't rank ourselves against our rivals, we'll only loose out. All we have going for this country is we speak English and have a low corporation taxes. Do we have an efficient transport network? No. Do we have readily available broadband that ranks well with the rest of Europe? No. Yes we have just got a great motorway network... only 30 years after other countries. Whether we like it or not, we're well behind our competitors and we need to continue to bridge the gap.

It would be counter-productive to operate buses along the same route above ground naturally. But at least when the Metro is there, Tourists first impression of the country will not be an extortionate ticket fee on the aircoach cause they are too afraid to use Dublin Bus.

If we were too wait for when financing was solid, we'd be waiting at least another 15 years. Time to invest in infrastructure that will help us take full advantage of any potential economic growth. Not to just sit, twiddling our thumbs going what has this country come too.

NT

Jack Noble · 14-02-2011 11:38am

lods wrote: »

This is the reason why the enabling works should not proceed until all the funding is in place & its clear that the project will proceed.

It's a Catch-22 situation, lods, based on a very strict timetable.

The best PPP price is based on construction beginning in mid-2012 and before the main work can begin, the enabling works must be done.

But if the enabling works are delayed, that will have knock-on effects which could increase the PPP contract price and cause other problems which could push up costs.

On balance, it makes sense to work to timetable and begin the enabling works in mid-April as scheduled. If the new govt decides to delay the project, then the enabling works will have been done and this will speed up construction when/if the govt decides to go ahead in a few years. Even Labour believes in that approach - Gilmore stated so publicly before Christmas.

Propellerhead · 14-02-2011 12:24pm

donvito99 wrote: »

The words 'hitting', 'nail' and 'head' also come to mind here!

I can't wait to be able to walk down Westmoreland St and see all the tack and filth gotten rid of.

Dublin has much more potential with Metro North.

Indeed. That chain always makes me think of low wages, an economy based on selling tack made in China and chest beating Wolfe Tones nonsense. Opposition to decent public transport is of a piece with that. If that's the Ireland they want they are welcome to it.

lods · 14-02-2011 11:11pm

Jack Noble wrote: »

It's a Catch-22 situation, lods, based on a very strict timetable.

The best PPP price is based on construction beginning in mid-2012 and before the main work can begin, the enabling works must be done.

But if the enabling works are delayed, that will have knock-on effects which could increase the PPP contract price and cause other problems which could push up costs.

On balance, it makes sense to work to timetable and begin the enabling works in mid-April as scheduled. If the new govt decides to delay the project, then the enabling works will have been done and this will speed up construction when/if the govt decides to go ahead in a few years. Even Labour believes in that approach - Gilmore stated so publicly before Christmas.

Well supporters & the RPA would say that. Its unlikely to ever go ahead if its postponed. Your back into a re-tendering process etc etc

Jack Noble · 15-02-2011 12:39am

lods wrote: »

Well supporters & the RPA would say that. Its unlikely to ever go ahead if its postponed. Your back into a re-tendering process etc etc

No, it's simple common sense.

I would agree that postponing the project will probably kill it for at least five and possibly 10 years.

And that's why I believe it will get the green light later this year from the new govt - if the PPP price and terms are favourable to the State. And the two consortia would be mad at this stage to make their offers anything but a good deal for the State if they want the contract.

lods · 15-02-2011 1:20pm

Jack Noble wrote: »

No, it's simple common sense.

I would agree that postponing the project will probably kill it for at least five and possibly 10 years.

And that's why I believe it will get the green light later this year from the new govt - if the PPP price and terms are favourable to the State. And the two consortia would be mad at this stage to make their offers anything but a good deal for the State if they want the contract.

Is like putting foundations for a house you don't have a mortgage for . If it doesn't go ahead its wasted.

lods · 15-02-2011 1:24pm

21.1 Public Transport

Nationwide Bus Competition: We will completely overhaul the bus market in Ireland by introducing
competitive tendering for all bus routes in the country as soon as practicably possible. More operators will
provide more routes and services to the public and at a cheaper cost to the taxpayer and passenger.

Community and Rural Transport Services: We will maintain and expand the rural transport network as
a reliable and sustainable transport service that is vital for rural communities. We will also deliver better
services by integrating the school transport and non-emergency HSE transport with the Rural Transport
Programme locally as much as is practicable.

Rail Services: We will support the expansion in range and frequency of high capacity commuter rail
services, particularly Metro North and the Western Rail Corridor, which will be subject to a cost benefit
analysis by independent experts. We also recognise the need to maximise the integration of our public
transport services through route management and integrated ticketing.

Rail Electrification: Fine Gael supports the electrification of our rail network and will pursue further
electrification subject to the availability of finance. Priority will be given to the electrification of the

Maynooth to Dublin and Kildare to Dublin suburban rail lines.

Hardly a firm commitement on Metro North or anything for that matter.:rolleyes:

Jack Noble · 15-02-2011 1:45pm

lods wrote: »

Hardly a firm commitement on Metro North or anything for that matter.:rolleyes:

FG support Metro North, subject to an independent cost benefit analysis. It's there in black and white in their manifesto - you have just quoted it.

We will support the expansion in range and frequency of high capacity commuter rail services, particularly Metro North and the Western Rail Corridor, which will be subject to a cost benefit analysis by independent experts.

And that's entirely consistent with what the party has been saying for the last six months - and what I have been saying FG have been saying in that time. It's the exact same position as Labour.

Any decision on Metro North will be based on the best PPP offer figure when the BAFOs are submitted later this year and updated CBA based upon them - how many times does that have to be explained to you before you will accept that is the case?

The lack of mention of Dart Undergound is extremely worrying. There is no point electrifying the Maynooth and Kildare lines without building the Dart Underground tunnel - all that will do is increase the bottlenecks in the system. That shows a worrying lack of knowledge in FG about DartU and how it is the critical element to efficient rapid rail public transport in Dublin. Metro North cannot reach it's potential without it Dart Underground.

Jack Noble · 15-02-2011 2:00pm

lods wrote: »

Is like putting foundations for a house you don't have a mortgage for . If it doesn't go ahead its wasted.

Metro North has a Railway Order with a lifespan of 10 years. Even if construction doesn't start in 2012, it still can begin in 13, 14, 15, 16 or even 20 or 21. The works will still be done and will facilitate a rapid move to begin work once a new tender competition has been completed. And that won't take too long because all the detailed work has been done already.

But one thing is certain - it can't go ahead in 2012 if the new govt decides it should if the enabling works are not done first.

Labour even supports that approach:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1215/1224285580700.html

Labour leader Eamon Gilmore also refused to commit the party to the project in advance of the financial cost. A party spokesman said, however, that any money spent on “enabling works” would not be wasted as it would “still be there in five of six years time”.

Your arguments against the Metro project really are scraping the bottom of the barrel at this stage. You simply keep ignoring the reality that the project has cross party support and will go ahead if the best PPP offer and CBA are favourable - which is the stated policy of Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fail. Sinn Fein, the Greens and the United Left Alliance also support proceeding with Metro. Time to face reality.

The only thing that will kill Metro is if the PPP price is to high or the terms of the contract too onerous on the State - wishful thinking on the part of you, the Junkman or other opponents will play no part in the final decision.

Zebra3 · 15-02-2011 3:53pm

Jack,

You seem to have a very high regard of politicans and that they'd never say one thing and then go and do another.

Jack Noble · 15-02-2011 4:19pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Jack,

You seem to have a very high regard of politicans and that they'd never say one thing and then go and do another.

Had any party said 'We will definitely build Metro North', I simply would not have believed that.

However, the three main parties all say the same thing - they favour building Metro North subject to an updated cost benefit analysis based on the final PPP offer.

Of course that gives them a get out clause if PPP is too expensive. It also gives them the excuse to say they are going ahead with MN because it offers great value for money at this time.

We'll see what will happen now when the BAFOs are submitted later this year and the CBA updated.

I am more concerned about the lack of mention of Dart Underground anywhere except in the Green manifesto - and let's face it, they are not going to be anywhere near govt to influence any decision. The BS in the FG manifesto about electrifying Maynooth and Kildare lines shows whoever wrote that hasn't the first clue about the importance of the Dart project to Dublin. The absence of Dart from the FF, Lab and SF manifestos shows similar ignorance or lack of committment.

EDIT: Just found commitment to "Finishing the Dart Interconnector" in the FF manifesto alongside "Completing the Metro North project. Page 16 for anyone that's interested. Metro and its job creation potential also mentioned on page 24.

D.L.R. · 15-02-2011 6:38pm

Jack Noble wrote: »

I am more concerned about the lack of mention of Dart Underground

+1. Dart tunnel is more important. But when was that ever a factor

etchyed · 16-02-2011 1:58am

Jack Noble wrote: »

I am more concerned about the lack of mention of Dart Underground anywhere except in the Green manifesto

You need only read Trevor Sargent's comments at a recent Transport Committee meeting to understand where this stance comes from. Completely clueless, as is just about everyone else on that committee.

Jack Noble · 16-02-2011 5:22pm

It seems Eamon Gilmore has flip-flopped again - he now supports Metro North and expects it to pass any new cost benefit analysis.

At least that's what the Fingal Independent - based in Swords - is reporting today, Feb 16.

Can't access full article as it's behind paywall but here's the intro:

AFTER appearing to sound doubts over the project last year, the Labour leader has said his party is committed to progressing Metro North and is convinced it will pass the test for all major capital projects by delivering jobs early in its development.

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/premium/news/gilmore-changes-tack-on-metro-north-plan-2542594.html

Maybe someone who subscribes to the Indo regional titles can post the full report.

BrianD · 18-02-2011 11:36am

Jack Noble wrote: »

It seems Eamon Gilmore has flip-flopped again - he now supports Metro North and expects it to pass any new cost benefit analysis.

At least that's what the Fingal Independent - based in Swords - is reporting today, Feb 16.

Can't access full article as it's behind paywall but here's the intro:

Maybe someone who subscribes to the Indo regional titles can post the full report.

Nice but of politics to be a bit fore definite in supporting MN in the local paper that covers the area that this expensive project will serve. He'll probably be on NEAR FM saying the same thing. Good for the local votes.

Jack Noble · 18-02-2011 12:04pm

BrianD wrote: »

Nice but of politics to be a bit fore definite in supporting MN in the local paper that covers the area that this expensive project will serve. He'll probably be on NEAR FM saying the same thing. Good for the local votes.

Here's exactly what the Fingal Independent reports Eamon Gilmore as saying on Metro North:

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/premium/news/gilmore-changes-tack-on-metro-north-plan-2542594.html

AFTER appearing to sound doubts over the project last year, the Labour leader has said his party is committed to progressing Metro North and is convinced it will pass the test for all major capital projects by delivering jobs early in its development.

In a controversial interview on the Marian Finucane show last year, Labour Party leader, Deputy Eamon Gilmore said the project may have to be 'shot back' but he says that after listening to the case made by Fingal County Council and local Labour representatives like the two men running for the party in Dublin North he has been 'convinced' that Metro North should be prioritised.

Deputy Gilmore said: 'Labour is committed to progressing with Metro North and there is absolutely no doubt about that.

'What we have said is that we are going to take all of the projects in the National Development Plan and all of the transport projects and other projects and revise them in Government.

'What we are going to do is prioritise those projects that are in a position to generate employment at an early stage.'

Asked if Metro North will be one of those projects, he said: 'I have received communications and heard what Fingal County Council, in particular, has had to say about Metro North and the local authority and both Brendan (Senator Brendan Ryan) and Tom (Kelleher) have convinced me that when the test, if you like, is applied on the number of jobs created by the project, Metro North will stand up to that and should be in that priority list.'

The article is behind a paywall but pay 99 cents yourself for 7-day access and check it yourself if you don't believe me. Or grab a copy in Easons.

This simply backs up what I have been saying for the last six months - Gilmore spoofed off the top of his head when asked a question on Metro North by Marian Finucane last September. He caught party colleagues cold with his 'shot back' comment and caused consternation in State agencies and among Labour people in North Dublin. Then there was a gentle row back by the likes of Quinn and others and a more nuanced line was developed.

The manifesto omission of any mention of Metro North is simply a fudge to calm the tension between opponents, supporters and agnostics within the Labour parilamentary party. I have already explained the dynamics of that tension earlier in this thread.

Now he tells the people of Swords and the Fingal area he has "listened" to Fingal CC and his candidates in the area and he is now "convinced" Metro North - which he has supported all along and is committed to progressing - will "pass" the cost-benefit tests on capital projects that Labour will apply.

Gilmore is an Olympic-standard spoofer and we are seeing more evidence of that emerge as each day goes by. As far as I am concerned, neither opponents nor supporters of Metro should rely on anything he says with regard to the project as he is as likely to give the opposite view tomorrow to the one he gave last week or last year - depending on the question he is asked, who asks the question, where it is asked, the day of the week and the direction the wind is blowing at the time.

BluntGuy · 07-03-2011 3:41am

Over two months ago I posted;

BluntGuy wrote:

The issue of how the money is to be raised when our market reputation is in ruins and the PPP markets have been struggling in general hasn't been dealt with. And that's with the 500 million the EIB have in principle agreed to lend.

I notice the RPA still haven't dealt with this issue. Their latest leaflet doesn't deal with it either.

I'm more than open to correction if I've missed something in my time away, but I have found nothing but bad news on the PPP front, and I really don't think we're in the position to be shouldering a significant amount of the financing cost.

I recall hearing rumours that the EIB were considering putting forward another 500 million, but that still leaves (even going by the most optimistic projections) a further billion at the very least to be found.

Gilmore is an Olympic-standard spoofer and we are seeing more evidence of that emerge as each day goes by. As far as I am concerned, neither opponents nor supporters of Metro should rely on anything he says with regard to the project as he is as likely to give the opposite view tomorrow to the one he gave last week or last year - depending on the question he is asked, who asks the question, where it is asked, the day of the week and the direction the wind is blowing at the time.

Neither FG nor Labour have given any firm commitment to the project, probably because they were well aware the outgoing government had no serious intention to progress it beyond some enabling works.

monument · 07-03-2011 4:28am

The RPA claims on MN's facebook page that the two PPP groups are still fully engaged in the process -- how true that is, we don't know, but nobody has pulled out, yet. All that needs to be signed off soon is the enabling works. Not the main PPP which is still something like a year away if the current timetable is used.

The programme for Government takes the same line as FF and FG etc -- it'll go ahead if the price is right and the funding can be done. I'm not sure what more you or anybody could expect other than outright lies.

Jack Noble · 07-03-2011 8:46am

Yesterday's Sunday Business Post has report on details of a Dept of Transport memo prepared for the new government warning of the consequences of cancelling Metro North at this stage. Memo released to SBP under FOI.

DoT quoted as saying cancellation will damage Ireland's reputation abroad wrt PPPs and infrastructure projects and harm prospects for future PPPs. It says it will make it difficult to attract bidders for future PPPs. It says only options open to new govt are cancelling project altogether or proceeding on schedule with main works starting in 2012.

I will post quotes and link later when latest SBP issue goes online.

EDIT: Here's the report from yesterday's Sunday Business Post:

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/warning-over-any-cancellation-of-metro-north-54957.html

Ireland’s credibility in managing major procurement projects would be dealt a serious blow if the incoming government cancelled the Metro North project, according to an internal memo prepared by senior transport department officials.

The Fine Gael-led administration has only two viable options concerning Metro North: to cancel the project or to approve it immediately, according to the briefing document which was drafted in recent weeks for the outgoing government.

The memorandum, which was obtained by The Sunday Business Post under the Freedom of Information Acts, strongly advances the argument against delaying the project. ‘‘There is a strong view that a further delay to Metro North is not an option," it states.

Any decision to axe the long awaited 18 kilometre route would ‘‘undermine the credibility of the Irish government as a counterparty to PPP [Public Private Partnership] deals’’.

‘‘The PPP process commenced three years ago [and] the PPP bidders have invested substantial amounts in bidding for Metro North and continue to spend money keeping their teams mobilised," it says.

‘‘If the project does not proceed based on this competition it is highly unlikely that bidders with the requisite skills would invest the substantial sums required again to put another bid together," the memo says.

In addition to undermining Ireland’s credibility as a partner in PPP deals, any decision to cancel the project could also have a ‘‘serious impact’’ on other major infrastructure investment projects and on deals in other sectors, the memo says.

The memo said the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) provided the national transport authority with an update to its business case in December, indicating that the cost-benefit ratio was still at 2:1 - meaning €2 returned in revenue for every €1 spent.

Dealing with the question of whether the Dart Underground project should proceed ahead of Metro North, the memo went on to say that while both demonstrated strong economic cases, it was ‘‘significant’’ that Metro North had reached implementation stage, while the planning approval process for the Dart Underground project could take 12 months or more.

lods · 07-03-2011 11:59am

The DOT would say that of course . It's not in the programme for government. I do agree a decision needs to be made one way or another

Jack Noble · 07-03-2011 12:00pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

I notice the RPA still haven't dealt with this issue. Their latest leaflet doesn't deal with it either.

I'm more than open to correction if I've missed something in my time away, but I have found nothing but bad news on the PPP front, and I really don't think we're in the position to be shouldering a significant amount of the financing cost.

I recall hearing rumours that the EIB were considering putting forward another 500 million, but that still leaves (even going by the most optimistic projections) a further billion at the very least to be found.

To the best of my knowledge, the RPA have never publicly commented on or discussed the Metro North PPP process except in vague generalities. We will only know if the PPP process is successful when the BAFOs are submitted.

Here's what RPA said when questioned by Derek Wheeler on Metro North Facebook page about the problems with the M17/M18 PPP in Galway.

Metro North RPA remains confident that the Metro North project can be financed in the timescales envisaged. The project got the backing of the European Investment Bank in 2010 who committed up to €500 million to the project. The economics of the project remain very sound and both remaining bidding groups are still engaged in the procurement process.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-to-Metro-North/132969966748869#!/pages/Metro-North/139624076083382

It's my view at this stage that the only things that will kill Metro North is if the PPP process fails because of lack of private sector funding of available funding due to Ireland's current debt position or the terms of the PPP contract are too onerous on the State because of the risk involved, again due to Ireland's debt crisis.

Neither FG nor Labour have given any firm commitment to the project, probably because they were well aware the outgoing government had no serious intention to progress it beyond some enabling works.

There is very little specific detail about an awful lot in the new PfG. Here is exactly what was said in the document under 'Transport' re public transport and infrastructure:

We recognise the need to rebalance transport policy to favour public transport. We will therefore establish a Cabinet sub-committee on Infrastructure to explore the benefits to the public transport passenger of more diverse bus service provision.

A modern high speed transport system is essential to ensure our economic competitiveness. We will support the expansion in range and frequency of high capacity commuter services, which will be subject to cost benefit analysis.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/programme_for_national_government.pdf
Pages 62-63

That's no different to what was in both parties manifestos. It's all down to the CBA which gives them Green and Red Light options depending on the outcomes of CBA's into Metro, DartU, Luas, motorways, etc, if State and/or PPP funding is available.

We'll have a clearer picture in May/June when the PPP BAFOs for Metro North are submitted - although if/when the enabling works begin on O'Connell Street next month that will also be an indicator that MN will, in all probability, go ahead.

Jack Noble · 07-03-2011 12:12pm

lods wrote: »

The DOT would say that of course . It's not in the programme for government. I do agree a decision needs to be made one way or another

Yes it is - in the sort of non-specific language that gives the new govt an opt in/get out clause depending on which decision it makes.

Why do you think a new cabinet sub committee will be set up to decide on public transport infrastructure? Why do you think such emphasis has been placed on 'subject to cost benefit analysis'?

Every time a piece of information comes into the public domain that is positive towards Metro North or indicates that it will go ahead, you clutch at the shortest, thinnest straw available to back up your hope that it won't?

I have repeatedly pointed out that Metro North and Dart Underground are the only games in town at this stage - they are central to Transport 21 and now 2030 Vision, the NTA's new transport strategy for the Greater Dublin Area for the next 20 years. Everything is banked on these two projects going ahead and there are senior people in FG and Labour aware of this. If one or both are cancelled then it is back to the drawing board for public transport in Dublin - for the second time in nearly 40 years.

Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

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