What salary are you on?

Geniass · 26-04-2015 11:34AM

hawkwind23 wrote: »

Yes more taxation would be a idea if quality employment was available for the majority of the population.
I think the problem is how the system is currently managed that people are against taxes.

We've already got a situation where people are paying more tax than what they receive for work they perform. You want them taxed more?

Such people consider this unfair and rightly so.

hawkwind23 wrote: »

The wealth of a society is based on how it treats its citizens ,

What does that even mean? It sounds like something out of a manifesto I have zero chance of wanting to read.

hawkwind23 wrote: »

we have a society that treats some better than others and that tends to be based on the economic wealth or what family they happened to be born into

We live in a country that is very generous to those less well off. Compare our social services to the like of the US.

We could be more social inclusive, but look at the likes of Russia, Cuba and China. Fancy moving there?

26-04-2015 11:36AM

punk_one82 wrote: »

What have I manipulated to suit any agenda? I've broken down the third of tax that somebody pays that go towards social programmes - the same social programmes you seem to think make up a "tiny fraction" of taxes paid. There's no sensationalism in anything I've said. I'm merely disproving the "utter poppycock" and factually incorrect statements you're making.

That was the least factual thing said in the conversation. The DSP budget is around €20bn per annum.

hawkwind23 · 26-04-2015 11:38AM

lol - labelled a communist already for merely suggesting that how we treat each other is a deciding factor in how we are judged as a society.
Loads of statisticians put this stuff together , as a western country we are around 30th

hawkwind23 · 26-04-2015 11:40AM

Journee Flabby Nectarine wrote: »

That was the least factual thing said in the conversation. The DSP budget is around €20bn per annum.

and the DSP only goes toward the dole , council houses and heating and whatever else the scroungers get!

Stheno · 26-04-2015 11:40AM

hawkwind23 wrote: »

and the DSP only goes toward the dole , council houses and heating and whatever else the scroungers get!

No it doesnt

punk_one82 · 26-04-2015 11:41AM

hawkwind23 wrote: »

and the DSP only goes toward the dole , council houses and heating and whatever else the scroungers get!

I've already stated what the social programmes consist of, which you seem to think is sensationalist and misleading.

26-04-2015 11:43AM

hawkwind23 wrote: »

and the DSP only goes toward the dole , council houses and heating and whatever else the scroungers get!

Oh so your issue is the poster didn't give an exhaustive list of everything the DSP pays out. Fair enough.

Kinet1c · 26-04-2015 11:43AM

hawkwind23 wrote: »

i dont mean to sound negative but i work in education.
Most of the courses on offer to the working class are a money making scam for the people running them.

You would nearly think that a certificate in ECDL makes you eligible to work in IT , waste of time!

then you get the next level courses , maybe a day a week for a year to get another useless piece of paper , a certificate to say you have an introduction to something or other.

So say i want to do a proper course that will actually be worth something and offer a possibility of a job.

I have to do a years access course followed by 4 years in full time education , when your close to 50 you dont have that sort of time and who is going to employ you after?
Anyone knows that a 4 year course only gets you the piece of paper to apply for the jobs , no experience and harder to train, i suggest age is a barrier.

Close to 50? That means you've got close to 20 years left of your working life. Would you rather someone live on bitching and whinging about how they're a victim or a real life example that I've seen where an older gent (north of 50) went back to college to get an IT degree, was top of his class and got back working? I know which I'd rather, both personally if I found myself in that situation and as a tax payer.

It's about choice really. Choose to cry and whinge about how you're a victim or choose to work hard to get ahead in a profession/trade that's in demand.

Geniass · 26-04-2015 11:46AM

hawkwind23 wrote: »

rent control

Why bother building something new or repair current infrastructure if your earning is caped?

hawkwind23 wrote: »

create employment ,

In the USSR there was very little unemployment. Of course the jobs were mickey mouse. Otherwise it's difficult to "create" real jobs in an open, global economy. What government wouldn't want to "create jobs".

hawkwind23 wrote: »

limit tax avoidance from larger corporations

Tax avoidance should always be pursued. Any ideas?

If you mean increase Corporation Tax, then that's a whole different economic argument that better minds than you or I argue over.

hawkwind23 wrote: »

subsequent manipulation of employment figures.

I think the likes of the much derided INTERN scheme has been very successful. Under the watch of the current government (not sure all of it is their success) the number in employment is steadily increasing.

hawkwind23 wrote: »

Invest in education and infrastructure , keep the young talent here

All very noble, but we owe BILLIONS of euro (whether that's the fault of FF or not is irrelevant at this stage) and need to be careful as to how much we borrow. We are constrained by our EU membership.

Endthescam · 26-04-2015 11:48AM

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Take a look around you. Everywhere you see people are looking at screens. Mobiles, tablets computers. Somebody somewhere has to create what they're looking at. One man's 'pushing dots around a screen' is another man's 'revolutionary new idea'.

You can't change this fact anymore than you can prevent the sun from rising in the morning.

Excellent communication skills, a positive attitude and a strong work ethic are all great things to have. They're certainly not unfashionable. God knows there are plenty of people in my work place who are missing 1 or 2 out of the 3.

The thing is every interview candidate says that they have those 3 skills. To get ahead you're going to need more. What other skills do you have?

,That's the problem these days. Everyone staring into a device afraid to talk to each other. I did 20 years bar work but nothing there for me now. People want to drink cans at home and stare at a computer rather than have a chat in a pub. Im not wanted here any more and maybe it's time I ended it.

All I'm asking is to live with some dignity. A living wage for everyone to be the person they are. No poverty just everyone on 25k net a year. People getting paid too much to fund those not earning enough.

Kinet1c · 26-04-2015 11:50AM

Endthescam wrote: »

,That's the problem these days. Everyone staring into a device afraid to talk to each other. I did 20 years bar work but nothing there for me now. People want to drink cans at home and stare at a computer rather than have a chat in a pub. Im not wanted here any more and maybe it's time I ended it.

All I'm asking is to live with some dignity. A living wage for everyone to be the person they are. No poverty just everyone on 25k net a year. People getting paid too much to fund those not earning enough.

People have copped on that the publicans are legally robbing people with the prices they pay, nothing to do with sitting in front of a computer. Wetherspoons will clear a lot of them out soon, thankfully.

25k a year, I'd laugh only I think you're serious. You should try Cuba or Russia if you're looking for that sort of life.

punk_one82 · 26-04-2015 11:52AM

Endthescam wrote: »

No poverty just everyone on 25k net a year. People getting paid too much to fund those not earning enough.

So somebody who decides to do absolutely no work deserves to earn 25k a year, funded by people working hard taking a paycut?

Stheno · 26-04-2015 11:52AM

Endthescam wrote: »

,That's the problem these days. Everyone staring into a device afraid to talk to each other. I did 20 years bar work but nothing there for me now. People want to drink cans at home and stare at a computer rather than have a chat in a pub. Im not wanted here any more and maybe it's time I ended it.

All I'm asking is to live with some dignity. A living wage for everyone to be the person they are. No poverty just everyone on 25k net a year. People getting paid too much to fund those not earning enough.

There's a fair few bar jobs in Dublin

26-04-2015 11:54AM

Endthescam wrote: »

,That's the problem these days. Everyone staring into a device afraid to talk to each other. I did 20 years bar work but nothing there for me now. People want to drink cans at home and stare at a computer rather than have a chat in a pub. Im not wanted here any more and maybe it's time I ended it.

All I'm asking is to live with some dignity. A living wage for everyone to be the person they are. No poverty just everyone on 25k net a year. People getting paid too much to fund those not earning enough.

I really think you have this arse backwards. You seem to want to bring people earning a decent wage back down to the breadline, while what we should be aspiring to do is bring people on the breadline up to a decent wage. Be it through upskilling or whatever.

What you want to do is basically destroy the economy. If you can only earn 25k and you get it no matter what, where is the incentive to work?

Geniass · 26-04-2015 12:00PM

What's the price now for a pint of fermented water and sugar - nearly €6?

I can pinpoint exactly when the pub trade went tits up. New Years Eve 2000. People were being charged fortunes just to enter a pub/nightclub.

Lots of people just stayed at home and had great craic at a fraction of the cost. That's my theory anyway.

Nobody is entitled to a job for life, certainly not one based on selling a poison over the counter.

A good barman should be a good people person, which would make a good sales person. There's no point waiting around for Irish people to fall back in love with pubs. It's not going to happen.

26-04-2015 12:02PM

Just on the talk of creating jobs, there are nearly 100k more people in work in Ireland today compared to two years ago. There clearly are jobs being created at the moment. Now I know it hasn't happened for everyone and it would be nice if it could happen at a quicker rate.

bladespin · 26-04-2015 12:02PM

I'm struggling why all talk up upskilling is pointed arount IT there are so many other areas with greater growth and yet this is singled out as the holy grail.
Why would anyone with 'people skills' even entertain the idea of turning into a programmer overnight? Could they not spent their time learning p2p or b2b sales? If communication is a strength then utilize it.
Trolling aside most of what I read above is ethier those who don't have skills moaning about how unfair it is, when in fact it's always been that way - evolution of work, look around, how many farm labourers, millers, steam engineers, coal miners (uk) do you see?

Stheno · 26-04-2015 12:04PM

bladespin wrote: »

I'm struggling why all talk up upskilling is pointed arount IT there are so many other areas with greater growth and yet this is singled out as the holy grail.
Why would anyone with 'people skills' even entertain the idea of turning into a programmer overnight? Could they not spent their time learning p2p or b2b sales? If communication is a strength then utilize it.
Trolling aside most of what I read above is ethier those who don't have skills moaning about how unfair it is when in factit's alwasy been that way - evolution of work, look around, how many farm labourers, millers, steam engineers, coal miners (uk) do you see?

There's far more areas of IT than programming that need excellent people skills

That said I get your point

punk_one82 · 26-04-2015 12:06PM

bladespin wrote: »

I'm struggling why all talk up upskilling is pointed arount IT there are so many other areas with greater growth and yet this is singled out as the holy grail.
Why would anyone with 'people skills' even entertain the idea of turning into a programmer overnight? Could they not spent their time learning p2p or b2b sales? If communication is a strength then utilize it.
Trolling aside most of what I read above is ethier those who don't have skills moaning about how unfair it is when in factit's alwasy been that way - evolution of work, look around, how many farm labourers, millers, steam engineers, coal miners (uk) do you see?

I agree with what you're saying apart from the bit bolded. The idea of developers sitting by themselves in silence for weeks on end isn't correct. A lot of technical jobs require people skills. It would be pretty hard for me to work as a technical consultant on a client site without being able to communicate effectively, and it would be impossible to work in a team delivering software to that client without those skills.

Xcellor · 26-04-2015 12:52PM

Can I lie like everyone else or do I have to be honest?

jank · 26-04-2015 02:04PM

Endthescam wrote: »

Upskill? Learn to push dots around a screen because that's what our global masters want to reward.

I have skills. Talking to people, graft, good attitude. But these are unfashionable these days so I better get in line with the rest.

Clearly not. If you are only a ditch digger then there are billions of other ditch diggers in the world. What you need to do is have a skill that you can offer. All the moaning or whinging in the world won't change that reality.

purplecow1977 · 26-04-2015 03:05PM

A couple of points:

Having everyone on 25k is nonsense. Why would anyone be motivated to work at college, to push themselves, to work hard in their jobs etc if everyone from toilet cleaners to doctors earned the same salary?

The advice given to many seems to be 'if you don't like it, get another job'. I don't think these people realise how difficult this can be. For many, they want a career, rather than a job.

Many say money isn't important, but that's easy to say when you have it. For those who are scrimping and saving and planning every single €, it's a different scenario.

I think we have to learn to live within our means. It's easy to stand on the outside looking in at those who earn more than us and cast judgements, but we all have different outgoings and nobody knows anyone else's circumstances.

For now, I am happy with my lot. (I still play the lotto because I would love to win and have enough for a deposit for a mortgage, or even the mortgage outright!) but for now, I do like many others, save & try to collect a deposit together whilst paying all other outgoings.

26-04-2015 03:31PM

Endthescam wrote: »

All I'm asking is to live with some dignity. A living wage for everyone to be the person they are. No poverty just everyone on 25k net a year. People getting paid too much to fund those not earning enough.

I didn't go to university for 9 years to only earn 25k net a year, already on more than that and I just started out in my first job after qualifying and sure wouldn't be happy to be still on the same money after a year or two never mind the rest of my life.

There is no motivation for people to better themselves by studying harder subjects and for longer, work in more demanding jobs, take on more responsibility etc etc without financial incentives and the potential for a much better lifestyle for them and their family's.

Bandit0 · 26-04-2015 03:34PM

Heard a fascinating statistic the other day;

If you earn more than $30,000 P/A then you're in the top 1% richest people in the world.

26-04-2015 03:41PM

Bandit0 wrote: »

Heard a fascinating statistic the other day;

If you earn more than $30,000 P/A then you're in the top 1% richest people in the world.

Hmmm. Off the top of my head I'm really skeptical of that. 1% of the world is about 70,000,000 people. If you take the EU (and Norway, Switzerland), US, Australia, NZ, Japan, Israel, Canada then you've probably close to a billion people and a very good chunk of those would be making more than $30k per annum.

Emsloe · 26-04-2015 04:10PM

I'm in my early 30s and earn 43k gross per year. No healthcare, no pension and no sick pay. Left school early but went to college as a mature student and now work in middle management. With the top rate tax kicking in at quite a low level I'd much rather work a shorter week for less money than jump on to the next rung of the ladder salary-wise.

maninasia · 26-04-2015 04:17PM

Here's the stats from the US on personal incomes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#Income_statistics
2006 Census- 155 Million earners.
From a quick look it looks like 45% of all earners earn more than 30k USD/annum.

So quick calc 45% x 155 = 70 million earned > 30k/USD in the US in 2006.

Household income is also extremely important especially in these days of growing wealth disparity and concentration of wealth in assets. The median and the mean of personal income don't give us enough data to see the whole picture.

Zascar · 26-04-2015 04:20PM

This is a little outdated but still relevant:

54% of the population earn under 30k – In total they pay 3.1% of the tax.
16% of the population earn over 60k – They pay 74% of the tax.

maninasia · 26-04-2015 04:22PM

Emsloe wrote: »

I'm in my early 30s and earn 43k gross per year. No healthcare, no pension and no sick pay. Left school early but went to college as a mature student and now work in middle management. With the top rate tax kicking in at quite a low level I'd much rather work a shorter week for less money than jump on to the next rung of the ladder salary-wise.

That's a big problem in Ireland. It's a problem for both employers AND employees that you don't want to be promoted and therefore a salary increase.

You should consider though that if you get experience at higher management level, you can move across to another company (or country) and earn a lot more. Every time I moved to another company I got a significant raise. Internally the raises were miniscule.

iusedtoknow · 26-04-2015 04:26PM

Joey Plump Pulp wrote: »

I didn't go to university for 9 years to only earn 25k net a year, already on more than that and I just started out in my first job after qualifying and sure wouldn't be happy to be still on the same money after a year or two never mind the rest of my life.

Agreed. Last week alone, my wife worked 85 hours - which is pretty average. Haven't seen her since Friday evening. She'll be back from work around 10am this morning, she'll sleep till 5, then will try and do something normal like a bike ride before going to bed again only to be back at work at 5am for rounds.

If she was on 25K, her rate of pay would work out around 61c an hour for her hours worked at the hospital

What salary are you on?

Comments