Douglas, Cork (Grange to Carrigaline Road Bridge)

AugustusMinimus · 26-11-2013 2:46pm #1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/11/26/new-bridge-help-end-nightmare-traffic-douglas/

A very necessary piece of infrastructure IMO. Will take significant levels of traffic out of Douglas.

A few other things could be done in the centre of Douglas. Altering the lane arrangement going from Douglas Court towards the Douglas Road would be one of them. Current arrangement is

Left Lane: Douglas West and Douglas Road
Right Lane: Well Road

Right lane should be Douglas Road and Well Road with Left Lane solely dedicated to Douglas West.

MrDerp · 26-11-2013 3:29pm

It's a good plan, and we need more of these small smart fixes around Cork - I just moved back

The elephant in the room remains the lack of N40 Eastbound ramps.

AugustusMinimus · 26-11-2013 11:37pm

Presume this is where the bridge will go.

If this can be done for just €4m, then it is crazy not to go ahead with it. It'll take significant pressure off the Douglas West - Church Road junction. Church Road is also a disaster with a narrow section caused by a bridge.

phatmanwc · 27-11-2013 10:10pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

If this can be done for just €4m

Was rubbing my eyes when I saw the €4m figure. I'll believe it when I see it! Still though, one of the more exciting little schemes around the city, great to see a little initiative and inventiveness being applied...

Out of interest, what traffic movements do you anticipate the new bridge absorbing, in terms of freeing up the village centre? I'd imagine it would primarily allow N40 traffic going/coming to/from the east (tunnel, Mahon Point etc.) to bypass the main street (via the lower Carrigaline Road, from the Fingerpost Roundabout/Rochestown Road), and access the Grange area over the new bridge. I couldn't foresee other movements (that would use the village centre, e.g. N40 westbound, or Douglas Road traffic) being affected too much.

With respect to N28-bound traffic, I'm sure most will now use the Carrigaline Road via the new bridge, as opposed to the backroad through Donnybrook, which a significant amount of traffic probably uses at present (as opposed to doubling back through the village centre onto the N28). Hence, I don't think these movements will have much of an effect on the village centre congestion...

Thoughts?

AugustusMinimus · 28-11-2013 10:45am

It won't actually free up that much in the Village so to speak.

I'd anticipate the following will get better though.

1. Grange to Maryborough movements won't have to use Church Road anymore. The junction with Douglas West can get very bad at times.
2. Those going from the Douglas Road to Grange will now go through the fingerpost instead of going up Douglas West. Might actually make things worse outside of Douglas Court Shopping Centre.

I also think that traffic going down over the bridge from the Carrigaline Road and down Douglas Main Street might get worse.

kub · 30-11-2013 12:43am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

A few other things could be done in the centre of Douglas. Altering the lane arrangement going from Douglas Court towards the Douglas Road would be one of them. Current arrangement is

Left Lane: Douglas West and Douglas Road
Right Lane: Well Road

Right lane should be Douglas Road and Well Road with Left Lane solely dedicated to Douglas West.

So when the traffic lights at the junction with Well Rd are against the traffic coming from the village, wanting to turn right onto Well Rd, your Douglas Rd traffic will also be stuck. Also what about those who are turning towards Douglas Shopping Centre and South Douglas Rd?

AugustusMinimus · 30-11-2013 2:05pm

kub wrote: »

So when the traffic lights at the junction with Well Rd are against the traffic coming from the village, wanting to turn right onto Well Rd, your Douglas Rd traffic will also be stuck.

Not much traffic at all goes up the Well Road from this side. Going left and straight on for the Douglas Road seem to be the 2 most popular option and yet are grouped together. At the moment, there are huge tail backs as people going left towards the shopping centre are being blocked by those waiting to go on towards the Douglas Road. Often the lane for the Well Road is completely empty.

kub wrote: »

Also what about those who are turning towards Douglas Shopping Centre and South Douglas Rd?

Not sure what you're talking about. The left lane would be to go towards this direction.

kub · 30-11-2013 10:30pm

Do you travel that way on school mornings? I get the impression that there is as much traffic heading for Well Rd as Douglas Rd then.

Victor · 01-12-2013 3:43am

The idea is to get as much as possible of the traffic that doesn't belong in the village out of there, using traffic calming, turn bans and precinct improvement.

AugustusMinimus · 01-12-2013 2:01pm

Victor wrote: »

The idea is to get as much as possible of the traffic that doesn't belong in the village out of there, using traffic calming, turn bans and precinct improvement.

Douglas has a number of problems in this respect.

1. No access to the SRR eastwards and no access from the SRR westwards (without using the Bloomfield interchange and going through Rochestown.
2. Limited North-South access in the Douglas area. You have two options presently, the Douglas Road and the South Douglas Road. This creates two pinch points where both roads meet with the SRR.
3. Very poor junction design where the Douglas Road meets the Well Road / SRR and Douglas Main Street.
4. Traffic lights where Douglas West meets the South Douglas Road, allied to the roundabout where traffic comes off the SRR cause traffic chaos coming from the North.
5. No access to Douglas from Mahon and Blackrock outside using the Well Road or the SRR.
6. One single access point for Grange from Douglas (Douglas West).

All of these points force a lot of traffic through Douglas IMO. The scheme mentioned in my opening post doesn't resolve one of these problems but at least its a start.

kub · 05-12-2013 7:53pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Douglas has a number of problems in this respect.

1. No access to the SRR eastwards and no access from the SRR westwards (without using the Bloomfield interchange and going through Rochestown.
2. Limited North-South access in the Douglas area. You have two options presently, the Douglas Road and the South Douglas Road. This creates two pinch points where both roads meet with the SRR.
3. Very poor junction design where the Douglas Road meets the Well Road / SRR and Douglas Main Street.
4. Traffic lights where Douglas West meets the South Douglas Road, allied to the roundabout where traffic comes off the SRR cause traffic chaos coming from the North.
5. No access to Douglas from Mahon and Blackrock outside using the Well Road or the SRR.
6. One single access point for Grange from Douglas (Douglas West).

All of these points force a lot of traffic through Douglas IMO. The scheme mentioned in my opening post doesn't resolve one of these problems but at least its a start.

It is indeed a start but being honest with you i am of the opinion that Douglas Village should be in Cork City Councils area as opposed to the Counties area. I am living here for over 20 years and other than the new road through the old Douglas shopping centre, not much more has been done to help the flow of traffic through the village.
I think that the County Council have no experience of such traffic levels in urban areas, where as the City Council does.

Ludo · 09-12-2013 11:34pm

kub wrote: »

It is indeed a start but being honest with you i am of the opinion that Douglas Village should be in Cork City Councils area as opposed to the Counties area. I am living here for over 20 years and other than the new road through the old Douglas shopping centre, not much more has been done to help the flow of traffic through the village.
I think that the County Council have no experience of such traffic levels in urban areas, where as the City Council does.

The City Council would probably narrow the roads by making the footpaths wider, putting in silly cycle lanes on already narrow roads and getting rid of functioning roundabouts and replacing them with pointless light controlled junctions (I'm looking at you Skehard Road) like they seem to be doing everywhere else...no thanks.

kub · 11-12-2013 12:05am

Ludo wrote: »

The City Council would probably narrow the roads by making the footpaths wider, putting in silly cycle lanes on already narrow roads and getting rid of functioning roundabouts and replacing them with pointless light controlled junctions (I'm looking at you Skehard Road) like they seem to be doing everywhere else...no thanks.

Well i must admit it seemed like a good idea especially 20 years ago, but looking at it just now you are correct.

AugustusMinimus · 11-12-2013 12:25am

What Cork City Council would do if they got their hands on Douglas.

1. Replace the roundabout outside of Douglas Court Shopping Centre with traffic lights.
2. Replace the finger post with traffic lights.
3. Widen the path between Douglas Court and the end of Douglas Main Street in order to reduce the road to 2 lanes.
4. Install cycle paths everywhere.

kub · 14-12-2013 10:09pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What Cork City Council would do if they got their hands on Douglas.

1. Replace the roundabout outside of Douglas Court Shopping Centre with traffic lights.
2. Replace the finger post with traffic lights.
3. Widen the path between Douglas Court and the end of Douglas Main Street in order to reduce the road to 2 lanes.
4. Install cycle paths everywhere.

5. Bloody bus lanes all over the place.

AugustusMinimus · 06-06-2014 7:49pm

Thinking about it more. Here is how I think the whole vision will play out.

That new bridge is only part of the plan. The other part is linking Maryborough Hill and the Moneygurney Road with the Old Carrigaline Road via an updated Carr's Hill Interchange.

Red indicates the new bridge a new link road. Blue indicates a new route for traffic. This new route essentially facilitates the movement of traffic from Grange to Rochestown and Passage West without having to either go along Church Road or go through the Fingerpost Roundabout.

Accessing Grange from the South Ring Road would also dramatically improve. Instead of having to go through Douglas, traffic would come off at Carr's Hill Interchange and use the new bridge to access Grange, thereby taking huge levels of traffic out of Douglas.

kub · 21-06-2014 1:08pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Thinking about it more. Here is how I think the whole vision will play out.

That new bridge is only part of the plan. The other part is linking Maryborough Hill and the Moneygurney Road with the Old Carrigaline Road via an updated Carr's Hill Interchange.

http://i60.tinypic.com/4liogx.png

Red indicates the new bridge a new link road. Blue indicates a new route for traffic. This new route essentially facilitates the movement of traffic from Grange to Rochestown and Passage West without having to either go along Church Road or go through the Fingerpost Roundabout.

Accessing Grange from the South Ring Road would also dramatically improve. Instead of having to go through Douglas, traffic would come off at Carr's Hill Interchange and use the new bridge to access Grange, thereby taking huge levels of traffic out of Douglas.

How is this coming along, will we see it beginning any time soon?

AugustusMinimus · 21-06-2014 1:35pm

kub wrote: »

How is this coming along, will we see it beginning any time soon?

I must email Deirdre Forde on the whole issue. That new bridge could be built within 2 or 3 years.

The new roundabout at the top of Maryborough Hill hopefully should be open within a year or so. The problem at the moment is that the land that the roundabout and link road is built on is owned by NAMA. Holding it up.

The final part of the jigsaw would be an upgraded Carrs Hill Interchange. Befre this is upgrade, there will be nothing more than a slip into Maryborough Hill from the N28 and a slip out (but will only be able to go in the direction of Carrigaline.

The interchange will be upgraded as part of the N28 dualling scheme. Could be 5 or 6 years before this is eventually done. It is viewed as one of the more important Cork developments though due to the development of a container port by Cork Port at Ringaskiddy.

SpaceTime · 21-06-2014 2:54pm

There's a very big issue with lack of access to the N40 East Bound though other than via the Rochestown Road.

They should really have planned in a junction years ago. I'm not sure where they could fit one now.

AugustusMinimus · 21-06-2014 3:08pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

There's a very big issue with lack of access to the N40 East Bound though other than via the Rochestown Road.

They should really have planned in a junction years ago. I'm not sure where they could fit one now.

Due to special constraints, an eastbound exist from Douglas simply won't happen.

A layout as shown above would go a long way to alleviate the issue though.

Upgrade Carrs Hill to a full 4/4 dumbbell, new bridge and new link road and you get the following advantages.

1. A new route from Grange to Moneygurney and west of Rochestown.
2. Full access to the N28 and N40 from Grange and Donnybrook without having to go through Douglas, the Fingerpost Roundabout or the junction between the N28 and the Rochestown road.

These are huge advantages. Will take huge traffic out of the centre of Douglas IMO. Mainly traffic going from the city to Donnybrook or the west of Grange. Absolute no brainer in my mind.

Very little costs for a huge amount of gain.

mydiscworld · 23-06-2014 8:35am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Due to special constraints, an eastbound exist from Douglas simply won't happen.

A layout as shown above would go a long way to alleviate the issue though.

Upgrade Carrs Hill to a full 4/4 dumbbell, new bridge and new link road and you get the following advantages.

1. A new route from Grange to Moneygurney and west of Rochestown.
2. Full access to the N28 and N40 from Grange and Donnybrook without having to go through Douglas, the Fingerpost Roundabout or the junction between the N28 and the Rochestown road.

These are huge advantages. Will take huge traffic out of the centre of Douglas IMO. Mainly traffic going from the city to Donnybrook or the west of Grange. Absolute no brainer in my mind.

Very little costs for a huge amount of gain.

Anyone sent this to the NRA and council?

AugustusMinimus · 23-06-2014 10:28pm

I've update my drawings to include a new 4/4 dumbbell at Carrs Hill. I might contact Deirdre Forde to see if this is exactly the plan. If not, I'll ask her to consider the huge benefits it would accrue.

Victor · 23-06-2014 10:50pm

Note that the N28 is much higher than the adjacent valley, so it wouldn't be practical to do quite what you've shown: http://binged.it/1yGD9eh However, some variation of it should be possible.

AugustusMinimus · 24-06-2014 9:36am

Victor wrote: »

Note that the N28 is much higher than the adjacent valley, so it wouldn't be practical to do quite what you've shown: http://binged.it/1yGD9eh However, some variation of it should be possible.

To which side of the N28 are you referring ? There is already a link road built to link Moneygurney to the N28.

You think that it would require considerable earthworks to upgrade the Carrs Hill Interchange ?

kub · 25-06-2014 11:51pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I've update my drawings to include a new 4/4 dumbbell at Carrs Hill. I might contact Deirdre Forde to see if this is exactly the plan. If not, I'll ask her to consider the huge benefits it would accrue.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2pyu6ty.png

As per some plans from approx 6 years ago and if memory serves me correctly that looks right.

AugustusMinimus · 20-01-2015 8:35pm

Looks like there's some construction starting on where the Carrigaline Road side of the bridge would start. Wooden boarded doors put up at that end. Anyone know whats going on ?

_Kaiser_ · 25-01-2015 1:24pm

Hope they plan to make the merge onto the N28 (heading towards Carrigaline) longer as part of it.

Also the road markings on that stretch are all over the place.. you can in theory overtake on a bend if you're heading to the N25 and anywhere along the overtaking lane as you then go down the hill

moyners · 19-06-2015 11:58am

Any more news on this? There's been a couple of new house builds along the Carrigaline road in the last few months. I hope they've protected any land they'll need for the bridge?

AugustusMinimus · 20-10-2015 12:57am

This layout has now been confirmed as going ahead.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/overhaul-of-rochestown-traffic-is-planned/1110249/

http://www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com/A4%20Hand-out_Rev.%207_Final_161015.pdf

http://www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com/MCT0597PR0007_Carr's%20Hill_161015.pdf

Here is the actual layout.

moyners · 20-10-2015 9:59am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This layout has now been confirmed as going ahead.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/overhaul-of-rochestown-traffic-is-planned/1110249/

http://www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com/A4%20Hand-out_Rev.%207_Final_161015.pdf

http://www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com/MCT0597PR0007_Carr's%20Hill_161015.pdf

Here is the actual layout.

http://i61.tinypic.com/54d5wn.png

Only at public consultation stage so there may be some changes yet...

Most likely will go ahead as is, very little scope for alternatives

AugustusMinimus · 20-10-2015 10:14am

Agreed. They prob don't have to close the slip for Mount Oval but given motorway restrictions, I can see why this is wanted.

This will provide a huge improvement in traffic flow, but only when the bridge over the Ballybrack stream is built.

The biggest effect is taking Donnybrook and Grange traffic out of Douglas. Will be huge improvements in Douglas West I feel. Hopefully there won't be too many objections. I really can't see why there would be.

Douglas, Cork (Grange to Carrigaline Road Bridge)

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