Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Now Ye're Talking - to a Gambler!

Options
  • 09-12-2014 1:58pm
    #1
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭


    I'd like you all to meet one of our Mods, Life Degan who, in his own words, was a "degenerate gambler" in his youth He now works as the Operations & Compliance Manager for an online gambling company with a specific focus on Responsible Gambling. Ireland's always had a bit of a complicated history with gambling (internationally our poker players for example are considered both brilliant and lunatics!) so we thought having a chat with someone who's been both poacher and keeper so to speak might provide some interesting chats.

    Take it away LD.

    Also, obligatory Kenny Rogers:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4nJ1YEAp4


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    What's the most you gambled in one bet.

    Most won/lost


  • Options
    #3
    Spaniel heaven
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Spaniel heaven


    What the worst thing you ever did in order to get money for gambling?


    oh and any tips???


  • Options
    #4
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    What are your thoughts on online bookies who give larger limits to customers who consistently lose. While shutting down / banning customers who have actually won money?


  • Options
    #5
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Would you have considered yourself a professional gambler in your youth, i.e. it was your main source of income?

    Do you have an estimate for the amount of actual money you've betted/won/lost in a year and how much money you actually took away from it?

    If you're not gambling any more, do you find it difficult to work for an online gaming company and keep yourself in check?


  • Options
    #6
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Take That or 1Direction?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Why do we have a shared ip? Are you a hacker?


  • Options
    #8
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,472 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Knowing what you know now about gambling, if you were back making your first bet, would you still do it or would you think better of it?
    (Of course if know what you know now, you'd know the result - forget that part)

    What is working in the area you are working in like? What do you do on a daily basis?

    Do you believe the ease of access to gambling markets (24/7 online etc) is overall a good or bad thing for society?

    What is your opinion on result fixing? Is it widespread or more prevalent in one particular sport than another?
    Thanks in advance.


  • Options
    #9
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Do you think the government should tax gambling (despite the protests of the industry)?

    You called yourself a 'degenerate gambler'. Did you have a gambling addiction? How and what does your company do to promote responsible gambling and do you think there should be more restictions, e.g. the Ladbrokes Lads TV ads, live odds, and general glamorisation of the gambling world.


  • Options
    #10
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Heads or tails?

    What was your craziest bet and the craziest you have witnessed?

    I have been around some crazy guys who would have no problem throw a few 100 on a dog because there were no horses running, even though they knew feck all about dogs. And some of the stuff I see in the casinos is nuts, particularly from Asian punters. They would come over and put a few K on black because the last 5 or 6 were red.


  • Options
    #11
    Darkglasses
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    What markets/sports do you most or least recommend gambling on?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Mr. Manager
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. Manager


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    What's the most you gambled in one bet.

    Most won/lost

    In a sports bet, the most I've wagered and lost was about €600. Same again in sports bets, biggest win was probably about €4k.

    Almost all of my money came from poker but I had so much at the time I didn't know what to do with it so donated it back to casinos and bookies in the form of drunken roulette spins and virtual dogs.

    The most I won in a single hand at poker was about $32k

    Biggest loss was pretty rough. It took all of about 30 seconds to lose a fraction over $5k

    Both of these scenarios happened playing high stakes, way above my bankroll, $200/$400 online.
    Spaniel heaven wrote: »
    What the worst thing you ever did in order to get money for gambling?


    oh and any tips???

    I stole stuff on more than once occasion. The worst of it was stealing from a very close friend of mine and that still gets to me. Taking out multiple loans and a credit card is also up there with things I would certainly not recommend. It took me about 6 years to finally become debt free.

    Tip: If you go to a casino for the first time, don't win.
    Mezcita wrote: »
    What are your thoughts on online bookies who give larger limits to customers who consistently lose. While shutting down / banning customers who have actually won money?

    This is more something for a Trader but I'll give my take on it anyway. Online operators don't actively seek out losing players and offer to increase their limits. We certainly wouldn't do it anyway. Not a chance and I'd be extremely surprised if any major operator did.

    We have VIP's and potential VIP's - this isn't necessarily based on amount lost but on amount deposited/played in a given time frame. They would be targeted for offers but not to ask if they want to play more money.

    As for restricting winning players; this isn't something we would do that often. The restrictions we impose would mostly be on arbitrage bettors but again, this is more something for a Trader.

    Sorry if that doesn't answer it as well as you'd like but I tried my best.
    seamus wrote: »
    Would you have considered yourself a professional gambler in your youth, i.e. it was your main source of income?

    Do you have an estimate for the amount of actual money you've betted/won/lost in a year and how much money you actually took away from it?

    If you're not gambling any more, do you find it difficult to work for an online gaming company and keep yourself in check?

    I would have considered myself a professional poker player for sure. It was my only source of income for about 18 months or so. The losing months in this scenario are magnified as you really need to have a large enough bankroll to sustain the loses and not worry about it. Unfortunately for me, I was so bad with money that this wasn't the case. I mean, I had the money if I could budget but that wasn't to be. Losing depressed me. A lot. So I stopped... eventually :)

    Even if I was to take a wild stab in the dark at what that figure is I'm probably way WAY off. 6 figures is about the best answer here. Without doubt it was well into 6 figures of bet amounts.
    Through poker, it's easy for me to find out but I know already, I was and still am a lifetime winner at the game. Don't play anymore at all except the odd bit here and there. Sports betting however - definitely a loser. Casino - definitely a loser. Despite telling myself all the great stories of 'hitting the wheel for big money', there's so many more losing ones that outweigh these.

    My personality luckily affords me the ability to step away from something for good. All through my teens and into my early 20's I used to supplement my nights out. One day, a switch went off in my head and told me to give it up and I did (bar 2 nights). The same was with gambling. After leaving it all behind it is now something that doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Poker is a different story altogether but sports betting and doing thousands in the casino, in hindsight obviously, is plane silly.
    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Take That or 1Direction?

    Bit old for One Direction so we'll stick with Take That
    Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »
    Why do we have a shared ip? Are you a hacker?

    You were in my flat one time. Multiple times actually. You stayed there for about a week.
    kippy wrote: »
    Knowing what you know now about gambling, if you were back making your first bet, would you still do it or would you think better of it?
    (Of course if know what you know now, you'd know the result - forget that part)

    That's a really tough one for me. As a result of my earlier years I made some great friends, a girlfriend for nearly 5 years (ex now, but still...) and had some amazing times. The highs and lows of it all shaped who I am now and put me in this current role so with that, no, I wouldn't change it. Maybe tone down on the losing streaks though :)
    kippy wrote: »
    What is working in the area you are working in like? What do you do on a daily basis?

    My role now has changed quite a bit since taking it on but at the beginning one of my first big assignments was to restructure our responsible gaming policy and introduce proactive measures to handle problem gamblers. This was an easy task for me as I'd already been on the other side of the screen. Everything I wrote was viewed and approved by the board and introduced shortly after and is still in place (with some minor tweaks along the way) and it genuinely made me feel good about myself. Knowing that we were/are doing our bit to help prevent people falling into despair.

    As I outlined above, my role has changed quite a bit. Today, there's 2 guys that work for me who administer the responsible gaming side of things and I focus a bit more on upcoming markets and licensing agreements with different regulating bodies. This still massively entails responsible gaming focus as it's what almost every single regulator talks about right away. When taking on this role the main reason was due to wanting to make a positive step in the right direction and it's happened. Not we just need to keep driving it on!
    kippy wrote: »
    Do you believe the ease of access to gambling markets (24/7 online etc) is overall a good or bad thing for society?

    This a tough one to answer. The whole thing is hypocritical and conflicting as I make my living on people losing theirs...

    The entire industry is shaping up in a great way and more and more countries are becoming regulated and introducing strict measures and heavy fines to those operators that don't abide.

    It's not there yet but it will be soon.
    kippy wrote: »
    What is your opinion on result fixing? Is it widespread or more prevalent in one particular sport than another?
    Thanks in advance.

    Erm, this probably another one for a Trader. For sure in the past we've had cases of bets being cancelled due to fixed games but it's really not that often at all. The traders would monitor any big changes in market prices/bets placed and just cut the market if they suspect something.


  • Options
    #13
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    Any opinions on poker bots?


  • Options
    #14
    cup of tea
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭cup of tea


    What market has the least margin/most margin for the bookies?

    I presume they love to see punters plaing games and casino.

    Do any books ever contact punters about their losses?. I know they are very quick to limit accounts.

    We have online betting/phone betting/mobile betting/cash cards/cash out/live betting/enhanced prices/sign up bonuses etc etc i.e every possible idea to get punters backing as much as they can, is there anything else coming up in the pipeline/in development?

    What book is the most responsible in your opinion?

    What is your opinion on reverse withdrawal?

    Most books have the deposit option on their home page but very rarely is the withdrawal option on the home page i.e you have to go through the my account option and find the withdrawal option i.e they try not to make the withdrawal option as accessible as deposit, should this be changed?

    I presume bookies lay a lot of outcomes to limit losses on a particular market, how do they go about this?


    Does your bookmaker ever contact a punter on the last leg of a very big accumulator with an offer to call quits on the bet? I've heard of it before but I'm not sure is it an old wives tale

    Have you witnessed any traders losing their jobs due to the book losing big money on a particular event/market?

    Sorry for all the questions!


  • Options
    #15
    LaGlisse
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭LaGlisse


    Life Degen wrote: »



    This is more something for a Trader but I'll give my take on it anyway. Online operators don't actively seek out losing players and offer to increase their limits. We certainly wouldn't do it anyway. Not a chance and I'd be extremely surprised if any major operator did.

    We have VIP's and potential VIP's - this isn't necessarily based on amount lost but on amount deposited/played in a given time frame. They would be targeted for offers but not to ask if they want to play more money.

    As for restricting winning players; this isn't something we would do that often. The restrictions we impose would mostly be on arbitrage bettors but again, this is more something for a Trader.

    Sorry if that doesn't answer it as well as you'd like but I tried my best.












    My role now has changed quite a bit since taking it on but at the beginning one of my first big assignments was to restructure our responsible gaming policy and introduce proactive measures to handle problem gamblers. This was an easy task for me as I'd already been on the other side of the screen. Everything I wrote was viewed and approved by the board and introduced shortly after and is still in place (with some minor tweaks along the way) and it genuinely made me feel good about myself. Knowing that we were/are doing our bit to help prevent people falling into despair.
    No offence mate but if you believe any of this you are a cabbage. Responsible gambling policies are window dressing, simple as


  • Options
    #16
    Spaniel heaven
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Spaniel heaven


    What made you quit as in what was you Moment of Clarity


  • Options
    #17
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    The most I won in a single hand at poker was about $32k

    Biggest loss was pretty rough. It took all of about 30 seconds to lose a fraction over $5k

    Both of these scenarios happened playing high stakes, way above my bankroll, $200/$400 online.

    Did you play a lot of poker or was a couple of big scoops?

    Did you buy in for the full 40k at 200/400? Still have the hand history? Lose it to anyone we'd have heard of?


  • Options
    #18
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Do you feel guilty when gamblers lose? If they are not able to do it responsibly?


  • Options
    #19
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,768 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    if you had a son/daughter and they showed the signs of getting into the same level of debt you got into how would you counsel them? Would you just let it ride (pardon the pun) or would you step in and try to stop them

    And what level of debt were you in, if that's not too personal a question? 10K in the red? 20?


  • Options
    #20
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    Just out of curiosity I had a quick look through the threads started by "Life Degen" as I couldn't remember him from the old poker forum
    Life Degen wrote: »
    Even if I was to take a wild stab in the dark at what that figure is I'm probably way WAY off. 6 figures is about the best answer here. Without doubt it was well into 6 figures of bet amounts.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82067313&postcount=3
    The most I won in a single hand at poker was about $32k

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69749486&postcount=1


  • Options
    #21
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Bet amounts being plural I would imagine not single bets.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A lot of the questions on the thread seem to be focused on you as a gambler, and let on you as someone who now works WITH gamblers.

    1) How do you deal with the obvious conflict of interest in your role. Clearly since you work for a gambling company you want profits and people putting money in. But your role is towards preventing this too in some ways. So what conflicts of interest arise, how do you resolve them. And how are they generally resolved in the industry as a whole.

    2) What about your own experiences in the past do you now bring to bear in your new role? Do you look back and know what "trapped" you and attempt to implement this in a meaningful way to prevent it happening to others? If so what ideas or initiatives in this direction have you spear headed? You mentioned some "restructuring" that was "approved" but no insights as to what any of it actually was in practice.

    3) Do you have much knowledge of companies that are putting new UIs on the front of what is essentially standard gambling in order to draw in a new addiction market? I would be thinking of things like "Project Entropia" here who have essentially put a "Second Life" type UI interface on the front of the standard "One arm bandit" slot machine, and made a game out of it but are essentially drawing people into the same addiction trap as before.


  • Options
    #23
    Mr. Manager
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. Manager


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Do you think the government should tax gambling (despite the protests of the industry)?

    You called yourself a 'degenerate gambler'. Did you have a gambling addiction? How and what does your company do to promote responsible gambling and do you think there should be more restictions, e.g. the Ladbrokes Lads TV ads, live odds, and general glamorisation of the gambling world.

    I think any government is foolish not to tax it. It's a money making machine. Simple as. What does the government stand to lose through it.

    At the time, no, I wouldn't have considered myself a degenerate/problem gambler but looking back at the things that happened in those years, I definitely was. Anyone who steals or borrows from banks and says they don't have a problem is deluded.

    We have a number of different ways to help people along - most are in line with industry standards but one thing we do that I haven't heard of before in other companies is proactively stop people who show trends of a problem gambler. Can't really go into the specifics of this too much but there's a bunch of reporting run in real time which would alert us to users who we feel might be better off taking or break or being excluded permanently.
    If more companies did what we did then I firmly believe there would be a chance to clamp down on people descending into financial difficulty.

    Regarding advertisement, it needs to be there. How else do you sell your brand. Take smoking for example when Formula 1 banned it, there was an enormous drop in sales for all the major brands who could afford sponsorship at the time.

    To be honest, I don't feel there is an issue with the advertisement of betting companies. 365 always have a loop of what odds are best on offer during the half time of a game. To me, this kind of thing is fine.
    jester77 wrote: »
    Heads or tails?

    How much for?
    jester77 wrote: »
    What was your craziest bet and the craziest you have witnessed?

    Hmm... toughy. There was a fun time at a festival where 2 guys were flipping heads or tails for about €2k a go. It escalated from an initial flip of flipping for €100 or something even more minuscule.

    Outside of that, monetary value wise, it'd be in Vegas. Some guy punting what looked to be ~$7-$8k on craps per roll of the dice.
    jester77 wrote: »
    I have been around some crazy guys who would have no problem throw a few 100 on a dog because there were no horses running, even though they knew feck all about dogs. And some of the stuff I see in the casinos is nuts, particularly from Asian punters. They would come over and put a few K on black because the last 5 or 6 were red.

    Asians (sweeping generalisation) are sickos!!
    Darkglasses wrote: »
    What markets/sports do you most or least recommend gambling on?

    European horse racing and soccer are completely dud markets IMO. If you know a niche sport, punt on that. Chances are they won't have traders that know too much. For me personally, I've found a lot of value from MMA betting.
    Whosthis wrote: »
    Any opinions on poker bots?

    I'm in two minds about this. It's a scummy program to run but at the same time, if it works, fúck it, keep going.

    In my old job we would actively seek out these users by probing their PC's for such software and it worked.
    LaGlisse wrote: »
    No offence mate but if you believe any of this you are a cabbage. Responsible gambling policies are window dressing, simple as

    I know this is my AMA but what experience have you got on this? Are you basing this as a punter? Mine is 100% fact and true. Since I've taken on this role their has been a dramatic decrease in problem gamblers, almost a complete stop to users creating multiple accounts, doing their money and an increase in proactively closed accounts.

    Take what you want from what I said but for sure, we're making a positive step.
    Spaniel heaven wrote: »
    What made you quit as in what was you Moment of Clarity

    Don't think there ever was one to be honest... Lost my tonsils one too many time I guess. Leaving the house on Christmas day to go the casino a few years back was a bit of an eye opener.
    phantom_lord wrote: »
    Did you play a lot of poker or was a couple of big scoops?

    Did you buy in for the full 40k at 200/400? Lose it to anyone we'd have heard of?

    A lot of people on IPB will know my background story on playing $200/$400 briefly.

    Played consistently at $100NL for most of my time. Things went south a bit and then started taking shots and ran up a bit of money to take a shot at $200/$400

    Couldn't tell you the name of a single player from the games then. It was about 8 years ago.
    December2012 wrote: »
    Do you feel guilty when gamblers lose? If they are not able to do it responsibly?

    If I do it's a fleeting moment. There was a guy who hit a jackpot a while back playing slots and went to cashout €40k from a €44k balance. He lost the €4k, cancelled his withdrawal, placed another for €35k, lost the €5k, rinse and repeat.

    Felt bad for that guy, yea.
    knucklehead6 wrote: »
    if you had a son/daughter and they showed the signs of getting into the same level of debt you got into how would you counsel them? Would you just let it ride (pardon the pun) or would you step in and try to stop them

    And what level of debt were you in, if that's not too personal a question? 10K in the red? 20?

    Not entirely sure what I'd say to a child of mine. Wouldn't even know where to begin if it's someone so close. It's a hard thing to tell someone. It's like when your mate is hammered and you try tell him he's had enough and should go home.

    As for debt; the most I owed out wasn't monumental.. about €17k


  • Options
    #24
    Mr. Manager
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. Manager


    phantom_lord wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity I had a quick look through the threads started by "Life Degen" as I couldn't remember him from the old poker forum



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82067313&postcount=3



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69749486&postcount=1

    Just before I go home, I'll point out on this. Answered below. Bet amounts total life time.

    As for the second piece you've highlighted - I refer to tournaments in that post. $200/$400 isn't a tournament.
    Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »
    Bet amounts being plural I would imagine not single bets.

    This.


    EDIT: There's posters from IPB that will vouch for my above claim at those stakes.


  • Options
    #25
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    LaGlisse wrote: »
    No offence mate but if you believe any of this you are a cabbage. Responsible gambling policies are window dressing, simple as
    Life Degen wrote: »
    I know this is my AMA but what experience have you got on this? Are you basing this as a punter? Mine is 100% fact and true. Since I've taken on this role their has been a dramatic decrease in problem gamblers, almost a complete stop to users creating multiple accounts, doing their money and an increase in proactively closed accounts.

    Take what you want from what I said but for sure, we're making a positive step.

    Have to take issue with this. Surely bookies best customers are customers who constantly lose? While most people would take a hit and walk away, the best customers would keep on coming back to lose some more.

    Here's a recent example where the bookmaker in question quite happily gave a gambling addict enough rope to lose more and more over time. The idea that a bookie will try and stop someone who constantly loses is just nonsense IMO.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/michael-clifford/online-gambling-is-feeding-addictions-218640.html

    While footballers seem like they are great for business:

    http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/which-footballer-lost-2million-because-of-a-gambling-addiction/28944

    http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2013/10/13/7-footballers-who-had-problems-with-gambling/

    To me, it poses huge questions about the ethics of these companies. On the face of it they are all quick to promote "responsible gambling". The reality is that many people frequently can't control their addictions and bookies are only too happy to take their cash.


  • Options
    #26
    Mr. Manager
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. Manager


    cup of tea wrote: »
    What market has the least margin/most margin for the bookies?

    Highest margin is multiples, you are effectively multiplying the bookies edge with every bet you add. Obviously if you had an edge in each bet you would be multiplying in your favour but that's unlikely..
    Lowest margin is inplay, less multiples placed for one thing and more margin for error from traders. But it keeps the customers in the game so the bookies love it obviously.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    I presume they love to see punters plaing games and casino.

    Absolutely, not on a customer by customer basis as it's a massive company obviously but the company would be working towards getting a high % of profits to be coming from casino and be unhappy if that wasn't the case.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    Do any books ever contact punters about their losses?. I know they are very quick to limit accounts.

    It happens, moreso if you make any mention of responsible gaming issues, I'm sure they could do more but it is difficult to know by times, a footballer throwing €50k on a sportsbet or a guy with 4 kids and the dole throwing 100 on, the second is obviously a far bigger issue so it's not as simple as looking at numbers involved.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    We have online betting/phone betting/mobile betting/cash cards/cash out/live betting/enhanced prices/sign up bonuses etc etc i.e every possible idea to get punters backing as much as they can, is there anything else coming up in the pipeline/in development?

    Not really my side of things, obviously marketing are always looking at ways of getting customers depositing.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    What book is the most responsible in your opinion?

    Really difficult one to answer, I would be surprised if a certain company didn't tighten things up significantly after a postman lost millions..

    Serious answer, my site :p
    cup of tea wrote: »
    What is your opinion on reverse withdrawal?

    As a punter it's useful, we do monitor this type of thing in responsible gaming checks, constantly cancelling withdrawals would be one potential sign of RG issues. But as a sportsbettor I might have made my bets for the day, pressed withdraw and then seen another bet I like, cancelling w/d comes in useful.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    Most books have the deposit option on their home page but very rarely is the withdrawal option on the home page i.e you have to go through the my account option and find the withdrawal option i.e they try not to make the withdrawal option as accessible as deposit, should this be changed?

    Agreed, looks cynical from a punters pov, would be surprised if there was much money actually made from making people go looking for it. At the same time I rarely if ever actually press the deposit button, I usually pick my bets, press the bet button and wait for the quick deposit option to come up, then on w/d I know where I have to go so i'd be surprised if it's really an issue for most.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    I presume bookies lay a lot of outcomes to limit losses on a particular market, how do they go about this?

    There's 2 types of sportsbook, the Asian type where they keep their lines tight and take massive bets, they'll move the line if they have too much liability on one end to get people betting on the other side. The others are the traditional bookies we have in UK/Ire who have more bonuses, take smaller bets, limit people quicker, liability generally isn't going to be massive. It happens alright, I don't work in the trading department so don't know exactly how they go about it. Doesn't really answer the question I know but hopefully gives some insight.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    Does your bookmaker ever contact a punter on the last leg of a very big accumulator with an offer to call quits on the bet? I've heard of it before but I'm not sure is it an old wives tale

    I know it happens, again, not sure if we've done it and obviously cash out has been released now by a number of bookies. I think it's going to be most common from the independent bookies where you walk down to the shop and ask for an offer.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    Have you witnessed any traders losing their jobs due to the book losing big money on a particular event/market?

    None that I know but I'm sure it comes up in their performance reviews.
    cup of tea wrote: »
    Sorry for all the questions!

    No problem :)


  • Options
    #27
    Mr. Manager
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. Manager


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A lot of the questions on the thread seem to be focused on you as a gambler, and let on you as someone who now works WITH gamblers.

    1) How do you deal with the obvious conflict of interest in your role. Clearly since you work for a gambling company you want profits and people putting money in. But your role is towards preventing this too in some ways. So what conflicts of interest arise, how do you resolve them. And how are they generally resolved in the industry as a whole.

    A lot of the time now my clashes would be with Legal and/or Compliance (other compliance teams). I'm way more on the customer side of things now and would prefer to have stricter measures in place for 2 reasons, to be compliant so when we get audited I don't get caught with my díck in the hoover and that we offer a safe and responsible place for punters to play.

    At the end of the day, I can only put forth my ideas and suggestions - if they're rejected from higher management there isn't much to come back to about that. To be fair to the company though, we're really trying to steer ourselves in a good direction. We had some bad press about a year and a half ago in France and things have gotten better since then.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    2) What about your own experiences in the past do you now bring to bear in your new role? Do you look back and know what "trapped" you and attempt to implement this in a meaningful way to prevent it happening to others? If so what ideas or initiatives in this direction have you spear headed? You mentioned some "restructuring" that was "approved" but no insights as to what any of it actually was in practice.

    As mentioned in a previous post, frequently cancelling withdrawals was something that would indicate a decline in someone's behaviour. It's not definitive at all but one thing that would be used to build a bigger picture. Credit cards being maxed and then the user depositing with a 3rd party card or users changing their deposit limits on a frequent basis.
    These are some of the reports that we have run in real time that when triggered you would appear as an alert to us and from there we'd take a deeper look into your activity to ascertain whether or not we felt you had a problem. If so, we would take the decision to close your account for a period of time defined by your actions.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    3) Do you have much knowledge of companies that are putting new UIs on the front of what is essentially standard gambling in order to draw in a new addiction market? I would be thinking of things like "Project Entropia" here who have essentially put a "Second Life" type UI interface on the front of the standard "One arm bandit" slot machine, and made a game out of it but are essentially drawing people into the same addiction trap as before.

    We recently introduced South Park and Game of Thrones slot machines but I don't see an issue with this for the simple reason of - people who play these will play regardless of what's on the screen (branding/slogan wise).

    Personally, I see absolutely no enjoyment out of these.
    Mezcita wrote: »
    Have to take issue with this. Surely bookies best customers are customers who constantly lose? While most people would take a hit and walk away, the best customers would keep on coming back to lose some more.

    Here's a recent example where the bookmaker in question quite happily gave a gambling addict enough rope to lose more and more over time. The idea that a bookie will try and stop someone who constantly loses is just nonsense IMO.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/michael-clifford/online-gambling-is-feeding-addictions-218640.html

    While footballers seem like they are great for business:

    http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/which-footballer-lost-2million-because-of-a-gambling-addiction/28944

    http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2013/10/13/7-footballers-who-had-problems-with-gambling/

    To me, it poses huge questions about the ethics of these companies. On the face of it they are all quick to promote "responsible gambling". The reality is that many people frequently can't control their addictions and bookies are only too happy to take their cash.

    This is extremely subjective. Peoples opinion of what they define as a socially responsible site will differ from one to the next. We genuinely do proactively close users who we feel might have a problem. Until 31/11/2014 we have had ~25,000 closed accounts due to some form of gambling problems, of those 25,000 accounts ~7,000 were closed proactively. Compared to the numbers from previous years, 0. This is a huge step in the right direction if you ask me.

    It also massively cuts our liability for users claiming we should have closed them before they lost "X" amount of money and then try and ask for a refund.


  • Options
    #28
    C.K Dexter Haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,711 ✭✭✭C.K Dexter Haven


    What's the difference between a professional gambler (if one actually exists) and someone addicted to gambling?

    What do you think makes someone gamble on a regular basis?


    Is the route to great face to face poker playing, learning your "craft" in online poker these days?

    The olde saying, "you never hear the losing stories, only the winning stories"- how many people in Ireland do you think, actually make a "living" as a professional gambler?

    Many thanks :)


  • Options
    #29
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    Life Degen wrote: »

    I'm in two minds about this. It's a scummy program to run but at the same time, if it works, fúck it, keep going.

    In my old job we would actively seek out these users by probing their PC's for such software and it worked.

    I assume that's polite corporate speak for RATting/hacking?

    Do different poker rooms on the same network cooperate in identifying bots?


  • Options
    #30
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,485 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Since it sounds like you are more or less in the same industry what did you make of the Full Tilt Poker scandal and implosion a couple of years ago, did it impact you / your workplace at all?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,159 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    As above, your max loss at at 200/400 being $5k is very odd.
    How many times did you sit into 200/400 games, roughly. Usually buy-in?

    I’m not saying I don’t believe you btw. But surely you can see why it’s not a typical situation at 200/400.
    Life Degen wrote: »
    As for the second piece you've highlighted - I refer to tournaments in that post. $200/$400 isn't a tournament.
    Even if you refer to tournaments. Its’ a strange life goal. To win $1000 or more in a tourney when you’ve were playing 200/400. And had single hand worth c.$32,000 on a single hand.
    EDIT: There's posters from IPB that will vouch for my above claim at those stakes.
    Who? Would add a lot to the thread, imo.
    Do you ever have the occasional game online, or are you completely over it?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement