Now Ye're Talking - to a Gambler!

Dav

I'd like you all to meet one of our Mods, Life Degan who, in his own words, was a "degenerate gambler" in his youth He now works as the Operations & Compliance Manager for an online gambling company with a specific focus on Responsible Gambling. Ireland's always had a bit of a complicated history with gambling (internationally our poker players for example are considered both brilliant and lunatics!) so we thought having a chat with someone who's been both poacher and keeper so to speak might provide some interesting chats.

Take it away LD.

Also, obligatory Kenny Rogers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4nJ1YEAp4

corkgsxr

What's the most you gambled in one bet.

Most won/lost

Spaniel heaven

What the worst thing you ever did in order to get money for gambling?


oh and any tips???

Mezcita

What are your thoughts on online bookies who give larger limits to customers who consistently lose. While shutting down / banning customers who have actually won money?

seamus

Would you have considered yourself a professional gambler in your youth, i.e. it was your main source of income?

Do you have an estimate for the amount of actual money you've betted/won/lost in a year and how much money you actually took away from it?

If you're not gambling any more, do you find it difficult to work for an online gaming company and keep yourself in check?

KERSPLAT!

Take That or 1Direction?

The Moldy Gowl

Why do we have a shared ip? Are you a hacker?

kippy

Knowing what you know now about gambling, if you were back making your first bet, would you still do it or would you think better of it?
(Of course if know what you know now, you'd know the result - forget that part)

What is working in the area you are working in like? What do you do on a daily basis?

Do you believe the ease of access to gambling markets (24/7 online etc) is overall a good or bad thing for society?

What is your opinion on result fixing? Is it widespread or more prevalent in one particular sport than another?
Thanks in advance.

Michael D Not Higgins

Do you think the government should tax gambling (despite the protests of the industry)?

You called yourself a 'degenerate gambler'. Did you have a gambling addiction? How and what does your company do to promote responsible gambling and do you think there should be more restictions, e.g. the Ladbrokes Lads TV ads, live odds, and general glamorisation of the gambling world.

jester77

Heads or tails?

What was your craziest bet and the craziest you have witnessed?

I have been around some crazy guys who would have no problem throw a few 100 on a dog because there were no horses running, even though they knew feck all about dogs. And some of the stuff I see in the casinos is nuts, particularly from Asian punters. They would come over and put a few K on black because the last 5 or 6 were red.

Darkglasses

What markets/sports do you most or least recommend gambling on?

Mr. Manager

corkgsxr wrote: »

What's the most you gambled in one bet.

Most won/lost

In a sports bet, the most I've wagered and lost was about €600. Same again in sports bets, biggest win was probably about €4k.

Almost all of my money came from poker but I had so much at the time I didn't know what to do with it so donated it back to casinos and bookies in the form of drunken roulette spins and virtual dogs.

The most I won in a single hand at poker was about $32k

Biggest loss was pretty rough. It took all of about 30 seconds to lose a fraction over $5k

Both of these scenarios happened playing high stakes, way above my bankroll, $200/$400 online.

Spaniel heaven wrote: »

What the worst thing you ever did in order to get money for gambling?


oh and any tips???

I stole stuff on more than once occasion. The worst of it was stealing from a very close friend of mine and that still gets to me. Taking out multiple loans and a credit card is also up there with things I would certainly not recommend. It took me about 6 years to finally become debt free.

Tip: If you go to a casino for the first time, don't win.

Mezcita wrote: »

What are your thoughts on online bookies who give larger limits to customers who consistently lose. While shutting down / banning customers who have actually won money?

This is more something for a Trader but I'll give my take on it anyway. Online operators don't actively seek out losing players and offer to increase their limits. We certainly wouldn't do it anyway. Not a chance and I'd be extremely surprised if any major operator did.

We have VIP's and potential VIP's - this isn't necessarily based on amount lost but on amount deposited/played in a given time frame. They would be targeted for offers but not to ask if they want to play more money.

As for restricting winning players; this isn't something we would do that often. The restrictions we impose would mostly be on arbitrage bettors but again, this is more something for a Trader.

Sorry if that doesn't answer it as well as you'd like but I tried my best.

seamus wrote: »

Would you have considered yourself a professional gambler in your youth, i.e. it was your main source of income?

Do you have an estimate for the amount of actual money you've betted/won/lost in a year and how much money you actually took away from it?

If you're not gambling any more, do you find it difficult to work for an online gaming company and keep yourself in check?

I would have considered myself a professional poker player for sure. It was my only source of income for about 18 months or so. The losing months in this scenario are magnified as you really need to have a large enough bankroll to sustain the loses and not worry about it. Unfortunately for me, I was so bad with money that this wasn't the case. I mean, I had the money if I could budget but that wasn't to be. Losing depressed me. A lot. So I stopped... eventually

Even if I was to take a wild stab in the dark at what that figure is I'm probably way WAY off. 6 figures is about the best answer here. Without doubt it was well into 6 figures of bet amounts.
Through poker, it's easy for me to find out but I know already, I was and still am a lifetime winner at the game. Don't play anymore at all except the odd bit here and there. Sports betting however - definitely a loser. Casino - definitely a loser. Despite telling myself all the great stories of 'hitting the wheel for big money', there's so many more losing ones that outweigh these.

My personality luckily affords me the ability to step away from something for good. All through my teens and into my early 20's I used to supplement my nights out. One day, a switch went off in my head and told me to give it up and I did (bar 2 nights). The same was with gambling. After leaving it all behind it is now something that doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Poker is a different story altogether but sports betting and doing thousands in the casino, in hindsight obviously, is plane silly.

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Take That or 1Direction?

Bit old for One Direction so we'll stick with Take That

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Why do we have a shared ip? Are you a hacker?

You were in my flat one time. Multiple times actually. You stayed there for about a week.

kippy wrote: »

Knowing what you know now about gambling, if you were back making your first bet, would you still do it or would you think better of it?
(Of course if know what you know now, you'd know the result - forget that part)

That's a really tough one for me. As a result of my earlier years I made some great friends, a girlfriend for nearly 5 years (ex now, but still...) and had some amazing times. The highs and lows of it all shaped who I am now and put me in this current role so with that, no, I wouldn't change it. Maybe tone down on the losing streaks though

kippy wrote: »

What is working in the area you are working in like? What do you do on a daily basis?

My role now has changed quite a bit since taking it on but at the beginning one of my first big assignments was to restructure our responsible gaming policy and introduce proactive measures to handle problem gamblers. This was an easy task for me as I'd already been on the other side of the screen. Everything I wrote was viewed and approved by the board and introduced shortly after and is still in place (with some minor tweaks along the way) and it genuinely made me feel good about myself. Knowing that we were/are doing our bit to help prevent people falling into despair.

As I outlined above, my role has changed quite a bit. Today, there's 2 guys that work for me who administer the responsible gaming side of things and I focus a bit more on upcoming markets and licensing agreements with different regulating bodies. This still massively entails responsible gaming focus as it's what almost every single regulator talks about right away. When taking on this role the main reason was due to wanting to make a positive step in the right direction and it's happened. Not we just need to keep driving it on!

kippy wrote: »

Do you believe the ease of access to gambling markets (24/7 online etc) is overall a good or bad thing for society?

This a tough one to answer. The whole thing is hypocritical and conflicting as I make my living on people losing theirs...

The entire industry is shaping up in a great way and more and more countries are becoming regulated and introducing strict measures and heavy fines to those operators that don't abide.

It's not there yet but it will be soon.

kippy wrote: »

What is your opinion on result fixing? Is it widespread or more prevalent in one particular sport than another?
Thanks in advance.

Erm, this probably another one for a Trader. For sure in the past we've had cases of bets being cancelled due to fixed games but it's really not that often at all. The traders would monitor any big changes in market prices/bets placed and just cut the market if they suspect something.

Whosthis

Any opinions on poker bots?

cup of tea

What market has the least margin/most margin for the bookies?

I presume they love to see punters plaing games and casino.

Do any books ever contact punters about their losses?. I know they are very quick to limit accounts.

We have online betting/phone betting/mobile betting/cash cards/cash out/live betting/enhanced prices/sign up bonuses etc etc i.e every possible idea to get punters backing as much as they can, is there anything else coming up in the pipeline/in development?

What book is the most responsible in your opinion?

What is your opinion on reverse withdrawal?

Most books have the deposit option on their home page but very rarely is the withdrawal option on the home page i.e you have to go through the my account option and find the withdrawal option i.e they try not to make the withdrawal option as accessible as deposit, should this be changed?

I presume bookies lay a lot of outcomes to limit losses on a particular market, how do they go about this?


Does your bookmaker ever contact a punter on the last leg of a very big accumulator with an offer to call quits on the bet? I've heard of it before but I'm not sure is it an old wives tale

Have you witnessed any traders losing their jobs due to the book losing big money on a particular event/market?

Sorry for all the questions!

LaGlisse

Life Degen wrote: »

This is more something for a Trader but I'll give my take on it anyway. Online operators don't actively seek out losing players and offer to increase their limits. We certainly wouldn't do it anyway. Not a chance and I'd be extremely surprised if any major operator did.

We have VIP's and potential VIP's - this isn't necessarily based on amount lost but on amount deposited/played in a given time frame. They would be targeted for offers but not to ask if they want to play more money.

As for restricting winning players; this isn't something we would do that often. The restrictions we impose would mostly be on arbitrage bettors but again, this is more something for a Trader.

Sorry if that doesn't answer it as well as you'd like but I tried my best.












My role now has changed quite a bit since taking it on but at the beginning one of my first big assignments was to restructure our responsible gaming policy and introduce proactive measures to handle problem gamblers. This was an easy task for me as I'd already been on the other side of the screen. Everything I wrote was viewed and approved by the board and introduced shortly after and is still in place (with some minor tweaks along the way) and it genuinely made me feel good about myself. Knowing that we were/are doing our bit to help prevent people falling into despair.

No offence mate but if you believe any of this you are a cabbage. Responsible gambling policies are window dressing, simple as

Spaniel heaven

What made you quit as in what was you Moment of Clarity

phantom_lord

The most I won in a single hand at poker was about $32k

Biggest loss was pretty rough. It took all of about 30 seconds to lose a fraction over $5k

Both of these scenarios happened playing high stakes, way above my bankroll, $200/$400 online.

Did you play a lot of poker or was a couple of big scoops?

Did you buy in for the full 40k at 200/400? Still have the hand history? Lose it to anyone we'd have heard of?

December2012

Do you feel guilty when gamblers lose? If they are not able to do it responsibly?

knucklehead6

if you had a son/daughter and they showed the signs of getting into the same level of debt you got into how would you counsel them? Would you just let it ride (pardon the pun) or would you step in and try to stop them

And what level of debt were you in, if that's not too personal a question? 10K in the red? 20?

phantom_lord

Just out of curiosity I had a quick look through the threads started by "Life Degen" as I couldn't remember him from the old poker forum

Life Degen wrote: »

Even if I was to take a wild stab in the dark at what that figure is I'm probably way WAY off. 6 figures is about the best answer here. Without doubt it was well into 6 figures of bet amounts.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82067313&postcount=3

The most I won in a single hand at poker was about $32k

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69749486&postcount=1

The Moldy Gowl

Bet amounts being plural I would imagine not single bets.

A lot of the questions on the thread seem to be focused on you as a gambler, and let on you as someone who now works WITH gamblers.

1) How do you deal with the obvious conflict of interest in your role. Clearly since you work for a gambling company you want profits and people putting money in. But your role is towards preventing this too in some ways. So what conflicts of interest arise, how do you resolve them. And how are they generally resolved in the industry as a whole.

2) What about your own experiences in the past do you now bring to bear in your new role? Do you look back and know what "trapped" you and attempt to implement this in a meaningful way to prevent it happening to others? If so what ideas or initiatives in this direction have you spear headed? You mentioned some "restructuring" that was "approved" but no insights as to what any of it actually was in practice.

3) Do you have much knowledge of companies that are putting new UIs on the front of what is essentially standard gambling in order to draw in a new addiction market? I would be thinking of things like "Project Entropia" here who have essentially put a "Second Life" type UI interface on the front of the standard "One arm bandit" slot machine, and made a game out of it but are essentially drawing people into the same addiction trap as before.

Mr. Manager

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Do you think the government should tax gambling (despite the protests of the industry)?

You called yourself a 'degenerate gambler'. Did you have a gambling addiction? How and what does your company do to promote responsible gambling and do you think there should be more restictions, e.g. the Ladbrokes Lads TV ads, live odds, and general glamorisation of the gambling world.

I think any government is foolish not to tax it. It's a money making machine. Simple as. What does the government stand to lose through it.

At the time, no, I wouldn't have considered myself a degenerate/problem gambler but looking back at the things that happened in those years, I definitely was. Anyone who steals or borrows from banks and says they don't have a problem is deluded.

We have a number of different ways to help people along - most are in line with industry standards but one thing we do that I haven't heard of before in other companies is proactively stop people who show trends of a problem gambler. Can't really go into the specifics of this too much but there's a bunch of reporting run in real time which would alert us to users who we feel might be better off taking or break or being excluded permanently.
If more companies did what we did then I firmly believe there would be a chance to clamp down on people descending into financial difficulty.

Regarding advertisement, it needs to be there. How else do you sell your brand. Take smoking for example when Formula 1 banned it, there was an enormous drop in sales for all the major brands who could afford sponsorship at the time.

To be honest, I don't feel there is an issue with the advertisement of betting companies. 365 always have a loop of what odds are best on offer during the half time of a game. To me, this kind of thing is fine.

jester77 wrote: »

Heads or tails?

How much for?

jester77 wrote: »

What was your craziest bet and the craziest you have witnessed?

Hmm... toughy. There was a fun time at a festival where 2 guys were flipping heads or tails for about €2k a go. It escalated from an initial flip of flipping for €100 or something even more minuscule.

Outside of that, monetary value wise, it'd be in Vegas. Some guy punting what looked to be ~$7-$8k on craps per roll of the dice.

jester77 wrote: »

I have been around some crazy guys who would have no problem throw a few 100 on a dog because there were no horses running, even though they knew feck all about dogs. And some of the stuff I see in the casinos is nuts, particularly from Asian punters. They would come over and put a few K on black because the last 5 or 6 were red.

Asians (sweeping generalisation) are sickos!!

Darkglasses wrote: »

What markets/sports do you most or least recommend gambling on?

European horse racing and soccer are completely dud markets IMO. If you know a niche sport, punt on that. Chances are they won't have traders that know too much. For me personally, I've found a lot of value from MMA betting.

Whosthis wrote: »

Any opinions on poker bots?

I'm in two minds about this. It's a scummy program to run but at the same time, if it works, fúck it, keep going.

In my old job we would actively seek out these users by probing their PC's for such software and it worked.

LaGlisse wrote: »

No offence mate but if you believe any of this you are a cabbage. Responsible gambling policies are window dressing, simple as

I know this is my AMA but what experience have you got on this? Are you basing this as a punter? Mine is 100% fact and true. Since I've taken on this role their has been a dramatic decrease in problem gamblers, almost a complete stop to users creating multiple accounts, doing their money and an increase in proactively closed accounts.

Take what you want from what I said but for sure, we're making a positive step.

Spaniel heaven wrote: »

What made you quit as in what was you Moment of Clarity

Don't think there ever was one to be honest... Lost my tonsils one too many time I guess. Leaving the house on Christmas day to go the casino a few years back was a bit of an eye opener.

phantom_lord wrote: »

Did you play a lot of poker or was a couple of big scoops?

Did you buy in for the full 40k at 200/400? Lose it to anyone we'd have heard of?

A lot of people on IPB will know my background story on playing $200/$400 briefly.

Played consistently at $100NL for most of my time. Things went south a bit and then started taking shots and ran up a bit of money to take a shot at $200/$400

Couldn't tell you the name of a single player from the games then. It was about 8 years ago.

December2012 wrote: »

Do you feel guilty when gamblers lose? If they are not able to do it responsibly?

If I do it's a fleeting moment. There was a guy who hit a jackpot a while back playing slots and went to cashout €40k from a €44k balance. He lost the €4k, cancelled his withdrawal, placed another for €35k, lost the €5k, rinse and repeat.

Felt bad for that guy, yea.

knucklehead6 wrote: »

if you had a son/daughter and they showed the signs of getting into the same level of debt you got into how would you counsel them? Would you just let it ride (pardon the pun) or would you step in and try to stop them

And what level of debt were you in, if that's not too personal a question? 10K in the red? 20?

Not entirely sure what I'd say to a child of mine. Wouldn't even know where to begin if it's someone so close. It's a hard thing to tell someone. It's like when your mate is hammered and you try tell him he's had enough and should go home.

As for debt; the most I owed out wasn't monumental.. about €17k

Mr. Manager

phantom_lord wrote: »

Just out of curiosity I had a quick look through the threads started by "Life Degen" as I couldn't remember him from the old poker forum



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82067313&postcount=3



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69749486&postcount=1

Just before I go home, I'll point out on this. Answered below. Bet amounts total life time.

As for the second piece you've highlighted - I refer to tournaments in that post. $200/$400 isn't a tournament.

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Bet amounts being plural I would imagine not single bets.

This.


EDIT: There's posters from IPB that will vouch for my above claim at those stakes.

Mezcita

LaGlisse wrote: »

No offence mate but if you believe any of this you are a cabbage. Responsible gambling policies are window dressing, simple as

Life Degen wrote: »

I know this is my AMA but what experience have you got on this? Are you basing this as a punter? Mine is 100% fact and true. Since I've taken on this role their has been a dramatic decrease in problem gamblers, almost a complete stop to users creating multiple accounts, doing their money and an increase in proactively closed accounts.

Take what you want from what I said but for sure, we're making a positive step.

Have to take issue with this. Surely bookies best customers are customers who constantly lose? While most people would take a hit and walk away, the best customers would keep on coming back to lose some more.

Here's a recent example where the bookmaker in question quite happily gave a gambling addict enough rope to lose more and more over time. The idea that a bookie will try and stop someone who constantly loses is just nonsense IMO.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/michael-clifford/online-gambling-is-feeding-addictions-218640.html

While footballers seem like they are great for business:

http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/which-footballer-lost-2million-because-of-a-gambling-addiction/28944

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2013/10/13/7-footballers-who-had-problems-with-gambling/

To me, it poses huge questions about the ethics of these companies. On the face of it they are all quick to promote "responsible gambling". The reality is that many people frequently can't control their addictions and bookies are only too happy to take their cash.

Mr. Manager

cup of tea wrote: »

What market has the least margin/most margin for the bookies?

Highest margin is multiples, you are effectively multiplying the bookies edge with every bet you add. Obviously if you had an edge in each bet you would be multiplying in your favour but that's unlikely..
Lowest margin is inplay, less multiples placed for one thing and more margin for error from traders. But it keeps the customers in the game so the bookies love it obviously.

cup of tea wrote: »

I presume they love to see punters plaing games and casino.

Absolutely, not on a customer by customer basis as it's a massive company obviously but the company would be working towards getting a high % of profits to be coming from casino and be unhappy if that wasn't the case.

cup of tea wrote: »

Do any books ever contact punters about their losses?. I know they are very quick to limit accounts.

It happens, moreso if you make any mention of responsible gaming issues, I'm sure they could do more but it is difficult to know by times, a footballer throwing €50k on a sportsbet or a guy with 4 kids and the dole throwing 100 on, the second is obviously a far bigger issue so it's not as simple as looking at numbers involved.

cup of tea wrote: »

We have online betting/phone betting/mobile betting/cash cards/cash out/live betting/enhanced prices/sign up bonuses etc etc i.e every possible idea to get punters backing as much as they can, is there anything else coming up in the pipeline/in development?

Not really my side of things, obviously marketing are always looking at ways of getting customers depositing.

cup of tea wrote: »

What book is the most responsible in your opinion?

Really difficult one to answer, I would be surprised if a certain company didn't tighten things up significantly after a postman lost millions..

Serious answer, my site

cup of tea wrote: »

What is your opinion on reverse withdrawal?

As a punter it's useful, we do monitor this type of thing in responsible gaming checks, constantly cancelling withdrawals would be one potential sign of RG issues. But as a sportsbettor I might have made my bets for the day, pressed withdraw and then seen another bet I like, cancelling w/d comes in useful.

cup of tea wrote: »

Most books have the deposit option on their home page but very rarely is the withdrawal option on the home page i.e you have to go through the my account option and find the withdrawal option i.e they try not to make the withdrawal option as accessible as deposit, should this be changed?

Agreed, looks cynical from a punters pov, would be surprised if there was much money actually made from making people go looking for it. At the same time I rarely if ever actually press the deposit button, I usually pick my bets, press the bet button and wait for the quick deposit option to come up, then on w/d I know where I have to go so i'd be surprised if it's really an issue for most.

cup of tea wrote: »

I presume bookies lay a lot of outcomes to limit losses on a particular market, how do they go about this?

There's 2 types of sportsbook, the Asian type where they keep their lines tight and take massive bets, they'll move the line if they have too much liability on one end to get people betting on the other side. The others are the traditional bookies we have in UK/Ire who have more bonuses, take smaller bets, limit people quicker, liability generally isn't going to be massive. It happens alright, I don't work in the trading department so don't know exactly how they go about it. Doesn't really answer the question I know but hopefully gives some insight.

cup of tea wrote: »

Does your bookmaker ever contact a punter on the last leg of a very big accumulator with an offer to call quits on the bet? I've heard of it before but I'm not sure is it an old wives tale

I know it happens, again, not sure if we've done it and obviously cash out has been released now by a number of bookies. I think it's going to be most common from the independent bookies where you walk down to the shop and ask for an offer.

cup of tea wrote: »

Have you witnessed any traders losing their jobs due to the book losing big money on a particular event/market?

None that I know but I'm sure it comes up in their performance reviews.

cup of tea wrote: »

Sorry for all the questions!

No problem

Mr. Manager

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of the questions on the thread seem to be focused on you as a gambler, and let on you as someone who now works WITH gamblers.

1) How do you deal with the obvious conflict of interest in your role. Clearly since you work for a gambling company you want profits and people putting money in. But your role is towards preventing this too in some ways. So what conflicts of interest arise, how do you resolve them. And how are they generally resolved in the industry as a whole.

A lot of the time now my clashes would be with Legal and/or Compliance (other compliance teams). I'm way more on the customer side of things now and would prefer to have stricter measures in place for 2 reasons, to be compliant so when we get audited I don't get caught with my díck in the hoover and that we offer a safe and responsible place for punters to play.

At the end of the day, I can only put forth my ideas and suggestions - if they're rejected from higher management there isn't much to come back to about that. To be fair to the company though, we're really trying to steer ourselves in a good direction. We had some bad press about a year and a half ago in France and things have gotten better since then.

Deleted User wrote: »

2) What about your own experiences in the past do you now bring to bear in your new role? Do you look back and know what "trapped" you and attempt to implement this in a meaningful way to prevent it happening to others? If so what ideas or initiatives in this direction have you spear headed? You mentioned some "restructuring" that was "approved" but no insights as to what any of it actually was in practice.

As mentioned in a previous post, frequently cancelling withdrawals was something that would indicate a decline in someone's behaviour. It's not definitive at all but one thing that would be used to build a bigger picture. Credit cards being maxed and then the user depositing with a 3rd party card or users changing their deposit limits on a frequent basis.
These are some of the reports that we have run in real time that when triggered you would appear as an alert to us and from there we'd take a deeper look into your activity to ascertain whether or not we felt you had a problem. If so, we would take the decision to close your account for a period of time defined by your actions.

Deleted User wrote: »

3) Do you have much knowledge of companies that are putting new UIs on the front of what is essentially standard gambling in order to draw in a new addiction market? I would be thinking of things like "Project Entropia" here who have essentially put a "Second Life" type UI interface on the front of the standard "One arm bandit" slot machine, and made a game out of it but are essentially drawing people into the same addiction trap as before.

We recently introduced South Park and Game of Thrones slot machines but I don't see an issue with this for the simple reason of - people who play these will play regardless of what's on the screen (branding/slogan wise).

Personally, I see absolutely no enjoyment out of these.

Mezcita wrote: »

Have to take issue with this. Surely bookies best customers are customers who constantly lose? While most people would take a hit and walk away, the best customers would keep on coming back to lose some more.

Here's a recent example where the bookmaker in question quite happily gave a gambling addict enough rope to lose more and more over time. The idea that a bookie will try and stop someone who constantly loses is just nonsense IMO.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/michael-clifford/online-gambling-is-feeding-addictions-218640.html

While footballers seem like they are great for business:

http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/which-footballer-lost-2million-because-of-a-gambling-addiction/28944

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2013/10/13/7-footballers-who-had-problems-with-gambling/

To me, it poses huge questions about the ethics of these companies. On the face of it they are all quick to promote "responsible gambling". The reality is that many people frequently can't control their addictions and bookies are only too happy to take their cash.

This is extremely subjective. Peoples opinion of what they define as a socially responsible site will differ from one to the next. We genuinely do proactively close users who we feel might have a problem. Until 31/11/2014 we have had ~25,000 closed accounts due to some form of gambling problems, of those 25,000 accounts ~7,000 were closed proactively. Compared to the numbers from previous years, 0. This is a huge step in the right direction if you ask me.

It also massively cuts our liability for users claiming we should have closed them before they lost "X" amount of money and then try and ask for a refund.

C.K Dexter Haven

What's the difference between a professional gambler (if one actually exists) and someone addicted to gambling?

What do you think makes someone gamble on a regular basis?


Is the route to great face to face poker playing, learning your "craft" in online poker these days?

The olde saying, "you never hear the losing stories, only the winning stories"- how many people in Ireland do you think, actually make a "living" as a professional gambler?

Many thanks

Whosthis

Life Degen wrote: »

I'm in two minds about this. It's a scummy program to run but at the same time, if it works, fúck it, keep going.

In my old job we would actively seek out these users by probing their PC's for such software and it worked.

I assume that's polite corporate speak for RATting/hacking?

Do different poker rooms on the same network cooperate in identifying bots?

Cookie_Monster

Since it sounds like you are more or less in the same industry what did you make of the Full Tilt Poker scandal and implosion a couple of years ago, did it impact you / your workplace at all?

Mellor

As above, your max loss at at 200/400 being $5k is very odd.
How many times did you sit into 200/400 games, roughly. Usually buy-in?

I’m not saying I don’t believe you btw. But surely you can see why it’s not a typical situation at 200/400.

Life Degen wrote: »

As for the second piece you've highlighted - I refer to tournaments in that post. $200/$400 isn't a tournament.

Even if you refer to tournaments. Its’ a strange life goal. To win $1000 or more in a tourney when you’ve were playing 200/400. And had single hand worth c.$32,000 on a single hand.

EDIT: There's posters from IPB that will vouch for my above claim at those stakes.

Who? Would add a lot to the thread, imo.
Do you ever have the occasional game online, or are you completely over it?

bohsman

Mellor wrote: »

Who? Would add a lot to the thread, imo.

It happened. He's clearly not a sportsbetting degen. Pit games and some poker degeneracy.

TINA1984

Is the poker boom over?

Mellor

bohsman wrote: »

It happened. He's clearly not a sportsbetting degen. Pit games and some poker degeneracy.

I actually copped who this when I seen the location.
The Brandao bet should of gave it away also.

"CR" amirite?

dougee19

Mellor wrote: »

I actually copped who this when I seen the location.
The Brandao bet should of gave it away also.

"CR" amirite?

I was hoping it was ACE

Gloomtastic!

dobman88 wrote: »

So you say you lost $600 in one bet and $5k in a hand of poker at $200/$400 level which would equate to 12.5bb. Hardly mind blowing stuff here. Yet you call yourself a degenerate gambler. Bit of an over reaction imo. Tbh, it just sounds like you had a bit if craic after leaving school for a few months.

This guy sounds like a degenerate http://www.irishpokerboards.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12572

No actual question. I'd just like to know what you make of the above link compared to your small bets/losses.

To your average Joe Soap like me, the thought of gambling $600 on one hand is just mind boggling. If I lost $5k I think I would be suicidal......

Mr. Manager

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Since it sounds like you are more or less in the same industry what did you make of the Full Tilt Poker scandal and implosion a couple of years ago, did it impact you / your workplace at all?

I worked there, yeah. So it affected me pretty badly. Lost my job there.

The entire thing was a cluster fúck from start to finish. The lack of clarity from the board to the players was pretty disgusting. And the false hopes to the staff that "'XYZ' is going to come and pump money in to save us" was equally disgusting.

dobman88 wrote: »

So you say you lost $600 in one bet and $5k in a hand of poker at $200/$400 level which would equate to 12.5bb. Hardly mind blowing stuff here. Yet you call yourself a degenerate gambler. Bit of an over reaction imo. Tbh, it just sounds like you had a bit if craic after leaving school for a few months.

This guy sounds like a degenerate link removed

No actual question. I'd just like to know what you make of the above link compared to your small bets/losses.

I'm not going to quantify my losses vs. someone else. It's all relative. However, if you read the correction on IPB instead of regurgitating someone else's post you'd have seen that the loss happened at lower stakes.

My intention was never to come here and blow people away by the sums of money lost. There's no Dan Bilzerian-esque tails of dropping millions over a game of snap.

It was a turn around story.

As for what I think; It's akin to that person starting the same thread and then someone quoting a story from Nick the Greek stating that his losses are small ball. What's €50 to one person may well be the equivalent to €5 for another.

Mellor wrote: »

As above, your max loss at at 200/400 being $5k is very odd.
How many times did you sit into 200/400 games, roughly. Usually buy-in?

I’m not saying I don’t believe you btw. But surely you can see why it’s not a typical situation at 200/400.


Even if you refer to tournaments. Its’ a strange life goal. To win $1000 or more in a tourney when you’ve were playing 200/400. And had single hand worth c.$32,000 on a single hand.


Who? Would add a lot to the thread, imo.
Do you ever have the occasional game online, or are you completely over it?

As noted, that particular hand happened at lower stakes. Anyone from IPB who knows me, knows the reason why I played those stakes.

The thread I created about playing tournaments was ~4+ years after I stopped playing online. I didn't regularly play those stakes at the time, no. Think I posted somewhere here that my main game was 100NL, usually 8 tabling.

As for who, the only poster I know on IPB well is Bohsman and he's stated both here and there that it happened.

As for still playing, it's very sporadic. Once in a blue moon when something comes up but overall, I'd say no, I don't play anymore.

TINA1984 wrote: »

Is the poker boom over?

I believe so yes. There's little to no easy money to be made online anymore.

Mr. Manager

C.K Dexter Haven wrote: »

What's the difference between a professional gambler (if one actually exists) and someone addicted to gambling?

A problem gambler to me is someone who has lost the ability to control their gameplay/bet selection. Chasing losses and upping their stakes, betting on obscure games that are running 'now' as opposed to waiting for a later one where they have a more informed opinion. Professional gamblers exist. Few and far between in my opinion but they exist. Personally, I don't know a single one (if we're strictly referring to sports betting).

C.K Dexter Haven wrote: »

What do you think makes someone gamble on a regular basis?

I suppose that's subjective to the person but for me, if I lost I wanted to play and bet on whatever until that loss was recuperated. Or near as possible. It was well past the stage of getting the thrill of winning money but wanting my own back.

C.K Dexter Haven wrote: »

Is the route to great face to face poker playing, learning your "craft" in online poker these days?

There's a lot of internet pros who never play live as the games are so much slower. When they do play live it's obvious as they sit awkwardly, hold their cards awkwardly and when they place their chips in for a pot. I suppose you could look at this as being advantageous - if he doesn't know what he's doing, how are you to (in that particular sense as obviously he'd be knowledged in the game)

C.K Dexter Haven wrote: »

The olde saying, "you never hear the losing stories, only the winning stories"- how many people in Ireland do you think, actually make a "living" as a professional gambler?

There's a lot of great poker players in Ireland who make a nice living from it. A friend of mine is quite a successful player who would make ~6 figures a year. As above though, in terms of sports betting, I don't know anyone.

Many thanks [/QUOTE]

No problem

Whosthis wrote: »

I assume that's polite corporate speak for RATting/hacking?

Do different poker rooms on the same network cooperate in identifying bots?

This was made aware on TwoPlusTwo (poker forum) at one point post Black Friday - it's general knowledge in the poker community now that it was Full Tilt who did. They were, at the time and as far as I know now, the only site to do. Maybe with the merge with Stars they might too.

In fact, in their T's & C's it states that "You agree that PokerStars may take steps to detect and prevent the use of prohibited EPA Programs"

So I'm guessing they do...

Mr. Manager

Mellor wrote: »

I actually copped who this when I seen the location.
The Brandao bet should of gave it away also.

"CR" amirite?

Harsh

...and yes. Location is a giveaway plus it's in the BBV thread on IPB. Never intended to be a secret.

Penny Tration

Considering that you got to the stage where you stole from somebody, do you feel you were an addict, or a problem gambler?

If yes to either, is it difficult or therapeutic to work in the industry?

phantom_lord

Life Degen wrote: »

EDIT: There's posters from IPB that will vouch for my above claim at those stakes.

Fair enough, my apologies.

Mellor

Life Degen wrote: »

Harsh

...and yes. Location is a giveaway plus it's in the BBV thread on IPB. Never intended to be a secret.

Lol I meant the fact it's a UFC as opposed to Brandao.
I had him backed in that one too.

forgotten password

how did/do you react to the worst bad beats in poker?

have you made any royal flushes?

play any 5 card draw? what limits?

ty gl

Cookie_Monster

Life Degen wrote: »

I worked there, yeah. So it affected me pretty badly. Lost my job there.

The entire thing was a cluster fúck from start to finish. The lack of clarity from the board to the players was pretty disgusting. And the false hopes to the staff that "'XYZ' is going to come and pump money in to save us" was equally disgusting.

Ah, me too Bailed out to NZ in June 2011 before the worst hit though.

Mr. Manager

forgotten password wrote: »

how did/do you react to the worst bad beats in poker?

have you made any royal flushes?

play any 5 card draw? what limits?

ty gl

Think I've hit 3 royal flushes. Definitely 2 at least!

Bad beats were solved (temporarily) through drinking some beer. Not getting annihilated or anything - just having a cold crisp beer would relax me. Had some mates around me when playing live at the time who would have taken me away from the table for a smoke and a chat or something.

Never played 5 card before, no. Played a little fixed limit 7 card stud way back when but wouldn't remember the stakes. Nothing monumental anyway. I sucked at it but enjoyed playing

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Ah, me too Bailed out to NZ in June 2011 before the worst hit though.

I vaguely remember talking to you actually around the time it happened. One of us twigged from the others posts that we worked there.

forgotten password

AQ or 66 ?

forgotten password

Life Degen wrote: »

Think I've hit 3 royal flushes. Definitely 2 at least!

Bad beats were solved (temporarily) through drinking some beer. Not getting annihilated or anything - just having a cold crisp beer would relax me. Had some mates around me when playing live at the time who would have taken me away from the table for a smoke and a chat or something.

Never played 5 card before, no. Played a little fixed limit 7 card stud way back when but wouldn't remember the stakes. Nothing monumental anyway. I sucked at it but enjoyed playing



I vaguely remember talking to you actually around the time it happened. One of us twigged from the others posts that we worked there.

so did u usually play sober?

Mr. Manager

forgotten password wrote: »

AQ or 66 ?

66. Why would you want to start behind

forgotten password wrote: »

so did u usually play sober?

When I played online, yeah. Except one time, I came home steaming drunk, did fortunes and then e-mailed CS the next stating I was hacked because I couldn't remember playing.

Playing live weekly tournaments I would have always gone for a pint or two before the game with some friends and then on the break too, nip to The Cellar Bar on Merrion Square. Live cash games it was very seldom I'd drink and play unless it was just to mess around in The Jackpot after a night out while waiting for town (Dublin ) to ease up a bit before getting a taxi

The Moldy Gowl

Why couldn't they change your name to life degenerate?

KERSPLAT!

Eddie Rockets or Zaytoons?

Mr. Manager

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Why couldn't they change your name to life degenerate?

They can change my name to anything they want. They're the Mod Gods.

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Eddie Rockets or Zaytoons?

Jesus. Erm. That's like choosing between my dogs.

There's more option for me in Eddie Rockets but.. Zaytoons!!!

Can't I have both? Gun to my head, it's probably Eddies.