Z6(i) 2.5-15x56 P (BT) vs VICTORY HT 3–12x56

allan450 · 09-07-2013 11:24pm #1

i know this tread has probably come up before but i need to know something before i purchase.i have a deposit on the z6i but he said i think change if i want when the time comes to purchase.i had my heart set on the z6i but he swayed me towards zeiss with what he said.he said that the zeiss has 15 mins in low light on z6i is this true [i doubt it] has anyone had the experience of looking through both at low light.thanks lads

zlezlius · 10-07-2013 12:33am

Had HT for about two months and then sold to purchase 2nd gen Z6 i 2.5-15x56 Bt. Never looked back. Advantages: better magnification range, day/night angle on/ off illumination, very important ( for my liking at least) side paralax adjustment, lockable at 100 yards.Zeiss without paralax adjustment was just not that clear past 200 yards and the further the worse, which is fair enaugh couse it doesnt have paralax ajustment but swaro does. Finally glass in Zeiss Ht or in friends Victory FL its just not on the same level as swaro Z6 series. It is clearer and crispier IMHO. Also friends thought the same even they have Zeiss. I couldnt tell you difference in low light becouse i didnt compere them two side by side. They probably bouth great there. The only thing I maybe liked more about zeiss was illuminated dot size- so small compare to swaro. Thats about it. Thats my personal expierence with exact Same models that
_you looking at. The dealer that swears about zeiss is hardly main dealer/importer of them?;-)

Lotharmike · 10-07-2013 9:44am

allan450 wrote: »

i know this tread has probably come up before but i need to know something before i purchase.i have a deposit on the z6i but he said i think change if i want when the time comes to purchase.i had my heart set on the z6i but he swayed me towards zeiss with what he said.he said that the zeiss has 15 mins in low light on z6i is this true [i doubt it] has anyone had the experience of looking through both at low light.thanks lads

Had the Zeiss & Swaro,still have the Swaro ,lads I shoot with will attest to Swarovski's light gathering capabilities,I use the z6i 5-30x50 HD BRI outstanding scope as well as the z5 bt,The Zeiss /S&B /Nightforce all are at a very high level hence not much money difference in any of them.But to my eye the Swarovski simply can not be beaten for quality that's why very few ever come up for sale second hand there is a reason for that.IMO stick with what you were originally planning it will serve you extremely well for a lifetime.

allan450 · 10-07-2013 10:07am

zlezlius wrote: »

Had HT for about two months and then sold to purchase 2nd gen Z6 i 2.5-15x56 Bt. Never looked back. Advantages: better magnification range, day/night angle on/ off illumination, very important ( for my liking at least) side paralax adjustment, lockable at 100 yards.Zeiss without paralax adjustment was just not that clear past 200 yards and the further the worse, which is fair enaugh couse it doesnt have paralax ajustment but swaro does. Finally glass in Zeiss Ht or in friends Victory FL its just not on the same level as swaro Z6 series. It is clearer and crispier IMHO. Also friends thought the same even they have Zeiss. I couldnt tell you difference in low light becouse i didnt compere them two side by side. They probably bouth great there. The only thing I maybe liked more about zeiss was illuminated dot size- so small compare to swaro. Thats about it. Thats my personal expierence with exact Same models that
_you looking at. The dealer that swears about zeiss is hardly main dealer/importer of them?;-)

yes he is the main dealer for them.think he just wants an other sale for zeiss.thanks for the reply

TriggerPL · 10-07-2013 9:10pm

allan450 wrote: »

yes he is the main dealer for them.think he just wants an other sale for zeiss.thanks for the reply

If your referring to Nial from Lakeland , Nial will tell you him self he not a rifle man , and that z6i was traded in buy a lad for a zeiss victory ht because they found it had better light gathering in low light , I was in Lakeland when this fella traded that scope ,

There is no bull sh1t with Nial and if you say to him u want the z6 , they be no problem , he just advising you on what he been told .

And a fact any dealer would be quicker to sell off the trade ins quicker so there not stuck with them .

New stuff sells it self second hand stuff doesn't !!

zlezlius · 10-07-2013 9:53pm

If its Nial in Lakelands, have to agree with TriggerPl, he's a gentelman to deal with.

allan450 · 10-07-2013 10:09pm

he is 100 percent to deal with alright dont get me wrong.he is that sound he let me put the deposit on the z6 and if i change my mind in the mean time their is no prob you wouldnt get that in most places.i couldnt recommend him enough.its alot of cash to put down i want to get it right the first time

TriggerPL · 11-07-2013 4:11am

It come down to personal preference , I for one love 3-12x56 scopes and will when I return from oz be buying one for my stalking set up ! When stalking I can't stand having a parallax , it just another thing to adjust .

In saying that the rig I hold at the moment is a 6-24x56 victory scope , unreal scope only down fall I've had foxs to close to me and at min 6 mag he was huge and I couldn't make him out nearly no over big problem and only happened twice .

Either way u can't lose with them and my personal preference would be the zeiss just because of the reticle , and you can get lazer etched turrets for them to match ur bullet perfect .

De_Tomaso · 11-07-2013 8:03am

I have tested side by side these two scopes and also against others from this category couple of times. You can see the photos bellow.

Victory HT vs S&B Zenith

Victory HT, Duralyt, Docter Classic

Low light testing

The general conclusion is that Victory HT is the brightest scope currently on the market. The only competitor that comes close in my opinion is the Premier Reticles, others are just not passing as much light through as the new Zeiss.

However this should not always be a deal breaker. Z6i or Magnus have other big advantages over Victory HT and you should look at all factors and not only how bright each of this scopes is. Swarovski Z6i and Leica Magnus, offer better colors, much wider field of view, more versatile illumination system, thinner reticles, parallax adjustment and so on... They are also much more expensive.

So at the end it is all up to your needs. If you need a scope for waiting wild boars on elevated hides in the middle of the night, go with the Zeiss Victory HT. However if you are also hunting on driven hunts, stalk on game a lot, shoot on longer distances, also do the target practice...choose Leica or Swarovski.

At the end I would also like to include another photo of what Zeiss has achieved with this new HT glass. Bellow you can see the comparison test of low light binoculars. Victory HT 8x42 was brighter than all the competitors with 56mm lenses, only Docter Nobilem 8x56 was brighter. Fujinon 7x50 was also close, all others however were noticeable dimmer.

4200fps · 11-07-2013 10:25am

I've a Swarovski Habicht 6-24x50 and I compared it to the Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50. The Zeiss with out a doubt is a top class scope even for the money. Now at 250-300 yards both set at 12 power their was that hint sharper image from the swarovski. At full power out of the Swarovski shooting a paper target at 200yards I can see the green from the grass in the target background at ease through the bullet holes so that will give an idea how sharp image clarity theseSwarovski scopes are. Still I be a Swarovski fan but only Zeiss I did favor was the 6-24x56 victory that TriggerPL has but still to mention I also compared both Zeiss 3-12x56 vs the 3-12x50 Zeiss Duralyt and their was no difference at all in any way in my opinion. The only difference is lense diameter and price. Maybe the 56mm lense might help a slight bit in low light but I seen no difference. 90% of Zeiss scopes seem to be 1/4 inch clicks at 100 yards where Swarovski is 1/8 inch clicks which would be more percise for zeroing

De_Tomaso · 11-07-2013 11:45am

It is interesting how different our experiences are. I have compared Duralyt scope to many others in this cca. 1000 EUR class and has to say that I was almost disappointed. In my opinion Kaps, Kahles and Docter offer better scopes in this price range.

However Victory HT series is a totally different story.

4200fps · 12-07-2013 10:39am

I read before that Swarovski only dedicate their optics for hunting. German and Austrian optics are the best out there and can't be beaten I recon. Look at Kahles many recon they are the best built scopes in the world. All hand built and ever single component is double checked during asembel. Mind my spelling. I believe they are the oldest scope manufacture in the world. They're owned by Swarovski the last few years but I don't know if the glass is the same but by god they are crystal clear to look through but you will pay through the teeth for them

De_Tomaso · 12-07-2013 11:35am

Kahles is owned by Swarovski but very independent. Due to this relation Kahles is lately focused mostly on Tactical scopes, however they do have a new hutning line Helia 5 also.

As you wrote, they are the oldest rifle scope manufacturer in the world and their products are really great. Maybe new Helia 5 2.4-12x56 would be a greta choice between Zeiss Victory HT and Swarovski, since it is in between in every single regard I can think off. I do have to admit I have not had a chance to test it side by side with other competitors. I have handled it alone and really liked it.

TriggerPL · 12-07-2013 11:42am

De_Tomaso wrote: »

Kahles is owned by Swarovski but very independent. Due to this relation Kahles is lately focused mostly on Tactical scopes, however they do have a new hutning line Helia 5 also.

As you wrote, they are the oldest rifle scope manufacturer in the world and their products are really great. Maybe new Helia 5 2.4-12x56 would be a greta choice between Zeiss Victory HT and Swarovski, since it is in between in every single regard I can think off. I do have to admit I have not had a chance to test it side by side with other competitors. I have handled it alone and really liked it.

I've a doctor optic 3-12x56 and if I could get a different cross hairs I'd never use a different scope over impressed the scope in low light and for clarity !

I think when u go into the top scope prise range it comes down to ur own preference , and mine is zeiss

4200fps · 12-07-2013 12:35pm

TriggerPL wrote: »

it comes down to ur own preference , and mine is Swarovski

Every time you see my Swarovski i do hear you say under your breath the Swarovski is the best :P:D

TriggerPL · 12-07-2013 12:41pm

4200fps wrote: »

Every time you see my Swarovski i do hear you say under your breath the Swarovski is the best :P:D

Every time you get near my victory you start loosening to screws when I'm not looking trying to do the quick swap !!

4200fps · 29-08-2013 10:02am

http://www.how-to-diy.org/QqFJFFiXITpoOr/Swarovski-Z6i-(Gen-2)-2,5-15x56-vs-Zeiss-3-12x56-Victory-Varipoint-comparison-(HD).html
Swarovski looks better in my opinion. Even tho the swarovski has more magnifcation it still looks clearly brighter also grass in swarovski looks much greener vs zeiss.

TriggerPL · 29-08-2013 10:06am

4200fps wrote: »

http://www.how-to-diy.org/QqFJFFiXITpoOr/Swarovski-Z6i-(Gen-2)-2,5-15x56-vs-Zeiss-3-12x56-Victory-Varipoint-comparison-(HD).html
Swarovski looks better in my opinion. Even tho the swarovski has more magnifcation it still looks clearly brighter also grass in swarovski looks much greener vs zeiss.

Why you saving for a Zeiss so lol

De_Tomaso · 29-08-2013 11:26am

Swarovski is better in most aspects (color, field of view, resolution...) in day light, however no other scope can match Victory HT in low light.

4200fps · 29-08-2013 11:29am

TriggerPL wrote: »

Why you saving for a Zeiss so lol

Simply can't afford the best but maybe some day i might own a Z6i :cool:

4200fps · 29-08-2013 11:35am

De_Tomaso wrote: »

Swarovski is better in most aspects (color, field of view, resolution...) in day light, however no other scope can match Victory HT in low light.

You can't deney theres big differences in both Zeiss vs Swarovski in that video. I've yet to lift any scope more clearer than Swarovski Z6i and Kahles. Swarovski dedicate their optics for hunting. Mine is an old Swarovski and I compared it to brothers Zeiss and my old Swarovski had a little better clarity and finer image detail vs Zeiss at same range and magnifcation

Vegeta · 29-08-2013 12:25pm

4200fps wrote: »

You can't deney theres big differences in both Zeiss vs Swarovski in that video. I've yet to lift any scope more clearer than Swarovski Z6i and Kahles. Swarovski dedicate their optics for hunting. Mine is an old Swarovski and I compared it to brothers Zeiss and my old Swarovski had a little better clarity and finer image detail vs Zeiss at same range and magnifcation

I think De_Tomaso is agreeing with you in terms of resolution (image sharpness) and colour (greener grass). The point he is making is that the Zeiss is better in low light. A video in the middle of day does nothing to show that performance.

TriggerPL · 29-08-2013 1:36pm

Vegeta wrote: »

I think De_Tomaso is agreeing with you in terms of resolution (image sharpness) and colour (greener grass). The point he is making is that the Zeiss is better in low light. A video in the middle of day does nothing to show that performance.

And a video is no way of telling u need both there for your self .

badshot · 29-08-2013 1:59pm

the zeiss 4-16x56 tactical hensoldt
is a fantastic scope
best i've ever looked through

4200fps · 29-08-2013 2:49pm

Vegeta wrote: »

I think De_Tomaso is agreeing with you in terms of resolution (image sharpness) and colour (greener grass). The point he is making is that the Zeiss is better in low light. A video in the middle of day does nothing to show that performance.

I understand, i'm just pointing out that the Swarovski is much brighter at 15 power than the Zeiss is at 12. Any good German or Austrian optics with same lenses in diameter set at same power will give nearly same performance in low light. Not running down Zeiss but I compared swarovski vs Zeiss at dusk and there was no difference at all. TriggerPL once had a Zeiss classic 3-12x56 and there big money new for the magnifcation but we could not see any difference what so ever in it vs a standard Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50 in any way. Field of view, low light, clarity etc.

TriggerPL · 29-08-2013 3:16pm

4200fps wrote: »

I understand, i'm just pointing out that the Swarovski is much brighter at 15 power than the Zeiss is at 12. Any good German or Austrian optics with same lenses in diameter set at same power will give nearly same performance in low light. Not running down Zeiss but I compared swarovski vs Zeiss at dusk and there was no difference at all. TriggerPL once had a Zeiss classic 3-12x56 and there big money new for the magnifcation but we could not see any difference what so ever in it vs a standard Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50 in any way. Field of view, low light, clarity etc.

We agreed the classic was better but not enough to pay out double the money !

But the HT is a different ball game , low light is what is was built for and it out standing , I only got to look at one in Lakeland but I was impressed

allan450 · 29-08-2013 4:07pm

well i looked through both at lakelands and i went for the z6i i think its alovely scope.i was impressed with the small ill dot in the ht.but z6i with the extra mag and night/day mode ill dot and side parillx.z6i has more bang for buck in my eyes.each to their own i guess

De_Tomaso · 29-08-2013 4:47pm

In the 56mm top scopes class in my opinion each products has some advantages over others and none of them is really the ultimate best. I would rate as best at some segments like this:

Field of view: Leica Magnus
Resolution: Swarovski Z6i (gen.2)
Colors: Leica Magnus
Distortion: Swarovski Z6i (gen.2)
Illumination size, brightness: Zeiss Victory HT
Low light transmission: Zeiss Victory HT, second is Kahles and after that Swarovski/Leica almost identical
Ease of use: Kahles Helia 5
Price: Kahles Helia 5
Balistic Turrets: Zeiss ASV+ for simplicity and Swarovski BT for accuracy

I intentionally didn't include the new S&B Stratos since I didnt have the chance to tested it yet. However I believe that it will be the most robust among this group, it will have great illumination (evolved Flash Dot) and it will be bright.

I also didn't include Steiner NightHunter 3-15x56 since I was disappointed with this model. Model 2-10x50 from the same series is much better.

Each one of these scopes is great and unique in some way, which one to choose however depends on your personal needs and taste.

De_Tomaso · 29-08-2013 4:55pm

4200fps wrote: »

I understand, i'm just pointing out that the Swarovski is much brighter at 15 power than the Zeiss is at 12. Any good German or Austrian optics with same lenses in diameter set at same power will give nearly same performance in low light. Not running down Zeiss but I compared swarovski vs Zeiss at dusk and there was no difference at all. TriggerPL once had a Zeiss classic 3-12x56 and there big money new for the magnifcation but we could not see any difference what so ever in it vs a standard Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50 in any way. Field of view, low light, clarity etc.

This is strange, all Duralyt scopes I have tested were performing a lot worse than Classic and even worst as Kaps Klassic or Docter Classic.

KLIK

Lotharmike · 29-08-2013 5:12pm

This thread is very interesting.I am a Swarovski fan own & use them absolutely love them.for me the Zeiss is obviously a very high end scope used them but never was happy with them.S&B are in my mind the last word in low light gathering(just too heavy).But for an all round top end scope the Swarovski does it all in user friendly .accurate,BT system is accurate to the inch with Strelok/Swarovski Optic Calculator.To throw another scope into the mix & slightly cheaper is the Z5 I would put that up against any scope truly excellent piece of optics.I know nothing of Kahles never had one or looked through one,to me at that end of the scale very little difference in any of them just down to personal choice.Either way all will serve you very well for a long time if looked after.

4200fps · 30-08-2013 8:45am

De_Tomaso wrote: »

In the 56mm top scopes class in my opinion each products has some advantages over others and none of them is really the ultimate best. I would rate as best at some segments like this:

Field of view: Leica Magnus
Resolution: Swarovski Z6i (gen.2)
Colors: Leica Magnus
Distortion: Swarovski Z6i (gen.2)
Illumination size, brightness: Zeiss Victory HT
Low light transmission: Zeiss Victory HT, second is Kahles and after that Swarovski/Leica almost identical
Ease of use: Kahles Helia 5
Price: Kahles Helia 5
Balistic Turrets: Zeiss ASV+ for simplicity and Swarovski BT for accuracy

I intentionally didn't include the new S&B Stratos since I didnt have the chance to tested it yet. However I believe that it will be the most robust among this group, it will have great illumination (evolved Flash Dot) and it will be bright.

I also didn't include Steiner NightHunter 3-15x56 since I was disappointed with this model. Model 2-10x50 from the same series is much better.

Each one of these scopes is great and unique in some way, which one to choose however depends on your personal needs and taste.

Very interesting read there De_Tomaso, I enjoyed it. I hear Steiner is pritty much the same glass quality as Burris. I think Beretta owns both now am I right or wrong?

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Z6(i) 2.5-15x56 P (BT) vs VICTORY HT 3–12x56

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