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Why don't gardai catch bike thieves?

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  • 27-07-2012 9:49am
    #1
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭


    There's an epidemic of bicycle thefts - look at the thread in the Cycling forum, for instance - but a Google News and a Google Web search fails to turn up any reports of gardai catching and prosecuting bicycle thieves, or the theft rings that fill vans with bikes. Why is this?


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    #2
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    There's an epidemic of bicycle thefts - look at the thread in the Cycling forum, for instance - but a Google News and a Google Web search fails to turn up any reports of gardai catching and prosecuting bicycle thieves, or the theft rings that fill vans with bikes. Why is this?

    Just because it isn't reported does not mean that they are not catching bike thieves or recovering stolen bikes.

    http://cyclingindublin.com/2012/01/25/call-for-database-to-help-return-stolen-bicycles-to-owners/


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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    There's an epidemic of bicycle thefts - look at the thread in the Cycling forum, for instance - but a Google News and a Google Web search fails to turn up any reports of gardai catching and prosecuting bicycle thieves, or the theft rings that fill vans with bikes. Why is this?

    We do catch them. But then they get bail. Then they go back out and steal more. Then people keep buying stolen bikes.

    But the two most annoying things is bike owners who don't note their serial numbers so we can return stolen bikes, or better yet the fúckwits who don't even report the theft! We've recovered expensive bikes from thiefs and they are not reported!

    And re the reporting, thats a question for the media, not the Gardaí.


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    #4
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    foreign wrote: »
    We do catch them. But then they get bail. Then they go back out and steal more. Then people keep buying stolen bikes.

    But the two most annoying things is bike owners who don't note their serial numbers so we can return stolen bikes, or better yet the fúckwits who don't even report the theft! We've recovered expensive bikes from thiefs and they are not reported!

    And re the reporting, thats a question for the media, not the Gardaí.


    Good response.

    A point though......unless your bike is stolen, you may not know that you need the serial number for your bike if you are reporting it stolen.

    It may sound obvious to you, but I doubt its obvious to everyone.


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    #5
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    foreign wrote: »
    We do catch them. But then they get bail. Then they go back out and steal more. Then people keep buying stolen bikes.

    But the two most annoying things is bike owners who don't note their serial numbers so we can return stolen bikes, or better yet the fúckwits who don't even report the theft! We've recovered expensive bikes from thiefs and they are not reported!

    And re the reporting, thats a question for the media, not the Gardaí.

    Bail is temporary. If they're convicted, it's not only up to the media - couldn't the gardai have a "successful prosecutions" website?

    Not reporting the theft is a vicious circle because people feel it won't be investigated; I have reported bike thefts in my time, and asked what were the chances of getting my bicycle (worth hundreds of euro) back, only to be answered with a limp shrug and a closing hatch.

    Here's the current page of the Stolen Bikes thread on the Cycling forum:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79939021#post79939021


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    #6
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Bail is temporary. If they're convicted, it's not only up to the media - couldn't the gardai have a "successful prosecutions" website?

    Not reporting the theft is a vicious circle because people feel it won't be investigated; I have reported bike thefts in my time, and asked what were the chances of getting my bicycle (worth hundreds of euro) back, only to be answered with a limp shrug and a closing hatch.


    As mentioned earlier, there is a vibrant demand for second hand bikes. Most of them dont show up again. Or a lot of them dont.

    There are Garda stations shutting down left right and centre. How high a priority do you really expect a stolen bike to be? I wouldnt expect it to be high.

    Where does a Garda go looking for a stolen bike? You tell me......are you expecting door-to-door investigations for it?

    Also, did you have the serial number?


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    #7
    LLU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 407 ✭✭LLU


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Good response.

    A point though......unless your bike is stolen, you may not know that you need the serial number for your bike if you are reporting it stolen.

    It may sound obvious to you, but I doubt its obvious to everyone.

    Ah come one now, that bit should be pretty damn obvious! If you can't be bothered to know the number of your bike how the hell can you or anyone else be expected to identify it again??


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    #8
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    LLU wrote: »
    Ah come one now, that bit should be pretty damn obvious! If you can't be bothered to know the number of your bike how the hell can you or anyone else be expected to identify it again??


    I;d say a lot of people who bought a bike on the 'bike to work scheme' wouldnt know this.

    Ask someone about it and see what they say.

    As I said, it may seem obvious to you........that doesnt mean its obvious to everyone.

    If you dont know that bikes have a serial number, how would you know to record it.


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    #9
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    As mentioned earlier, there is a vibrant demand for second hand bikes. Most of them dont show up again. Or a lot of them dont.

    There are Garda stations shutting down left right and centre. How high a priority do you really expect a stolen bike to be? I wouldnt expect it to be high.

    Where does a Garda go looking for a stolen bike? You tell me......are you expecting door-to-door investigations for it?

    Also, did you have the serial number?

    How high a priority would I expect a stolen bicycle to have? High - bicycle theft is a known gateway to crime. Catching bike thieves may stop a good boy turning definitively bad.

    In the case of organised bicycle theft, let's say you have a ban with 20 bicycles (conservative) in it, and each of those bicycles is worth €300, that's a crime worth €6,000 - not to mention the misery and distrust of each of the 20 people whose bicycle has been stolen. (A friend of mine had an Elswick stolen that had been in the family since the 1940s, for instance; I was mugged off a lovely original Falcon.)

    Where does a garda go looking for a stolen bike? For a start, the gardaí monitoring the cameras in O'Connell Street probably have plenty of footage of bike thieves at work. The detectives walking the city streets must see thieves in action. Apart from this - I don't know. That's garda business, to know, by police work, where thieves fence their goods.

    Did I have the serial number? Yes. Always. Did I get my bicycle back? No. Never.


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    #10
    LLU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 407 ✭✭LLU


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    I;d say a lot of people who bought a bike on the 'bike to work scheme' wouldnt know this.

    Ask someone about it and see what they say.

    As I said, it may seem obvious to you........that doesnt mean its obvious to everyone.

    If you dont know that bikes have a serial number, how would you know to record it.

    Fair enough, you may be right, sadly. But almost every substantial object from cars to phones to computers has a serial number. If something is precious to you, it's your responsibility to ensure you can identify it and if you can't even do that then you're part of the problem. But I take your point, a lot of people seem to think that someone else will take care of this for them and dont bother until its too late.


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    How high a priority would I expect a stolen bicycle to have? High - bicycle theft is a known gateway to crime. Catching bike thieves may stop a good boy turning definitively bad.

    In the case of organised bicycle theft, let's say you have a ban with 20 bicycles (conservative) in it, and each of those bicycles is worth €300, that's a crime worth €6,000 - not to mention the misery and distrust of each of the 20 people whose bicycle has been stolen. (A friend of mine had an Elswick stolen that had been in the family since the 1940s, for instance; I was mugged off a lovely original Falcon.)

    Where does a garda go looking for a stolen bike? For a start, the gardaí monitoring the cameras in O'Connell Street probably have plenty of footage of bike thieves at work. The detectives walking the city streets must see thieves in action. Apart from this - I don't know. That's garda business, to know, by police work, where thieves fence their goods.

    Did I have the serial number? Yes. Always. Did I get my bicycle back? No. Never.

    Right, here you go, an in depth guide to how we investigate most crimes. Try find out from the victim where it happened. (Sometimes this is like pulling hens teeth).

    Check if the area has CCTV. If it does, get a copy, hope it shows where the bike was left. Then try identify when the bike was stolen. (Have you ever looked through an entire days worth of CCTV for a thief who is not dressed in black and white strips and wearing a mask?).

    If we are lucky to find the crime happen on CCTV then we will see if we know them. If not we ask around the station. Still drawing a blank? Send the picture to all stations. So then you wait.

    If you get an id back, look for a search warrant. Find the gouger. Arrest. Question. Charge. Bail. Start the process again.

    If we are lucky, we get a bike back. Then check it on the computer and find it's not reported! :rolleyes:


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    #12
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Here's a nice account of police catching a serial bike thief:

    http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Serial-Bike-Thief-Targeted-Oakley-Hyde-Park-For/onnoU3Ap5UiySzzdVws_pQ.cspx


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    I;d say a lot of people who bought a bike on the 'bike to work scheme' wouldnt know this.

    Most of them don't even bother to find a receipt which most times will have a serial number and a value. Again, most people can't tell me how much their bike is worth!


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    #14
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    So it's always the victim's fault?

    I would happily bet good money (and I'm not a betting person) that a garda who brought a ring of bicycle thefts to book and offered, say, the Evening Herald or thejournal.ie the story and the chance of photos would get plenty of coverage.

    Incidentally, in shock after having my bicycle stolen, I doubt I'd know how much it's worth offhand; I bought my current bicycle from a friend, its first owner. She'd paid €300ish for it and sold it to me for around €150, maybe 10 years ago, but it's a nice handbuilt Dawes and may have retained its value well. I do have the serial number, by the way.

    People will continue to buy stolen bicycles until they're prosecuted for doing so.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    So it's always the victim's fault?

    Not what I said, but we need the correct information to properly investigate crime.


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    #16
    catastrophy
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭catastrophy


    Why don't gardai catch bike thieves?

    They do, end of thread.

    Or is what your really asking - why don't the gardai catch the thieves who stole my bike?


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    #17
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    No, not what I'm asking. I don't know anyone who's had a stolen bike found and returned by gardai. I haven't seen any postings on the extensive Stolen Bicycles thread on the Cycling forum of boards.ie with such information.


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    #18
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    foreign wrote: »
    Most of them don't even bother to find a receipt which most times will have a serial number and a value. Again, most people can't tell me how much their bike is worth!


    But again awareness.....

    Are people aware that bikes have a serial number? I would guess most people dont. if you are into bikes, then of course you will know it.

    If you are not, and have bought your first bike in 20 years on the bike to work scheme, then you wont. how would you know.......

    A simple thing to do would be run an ad campaign on RTE saying a lot of bikes are being stolen, this is what you do to avoid it, and this is what you do to report it.

    I'm assuming you are a Garda from your contributions; and you are telling us that many people who report stolen bikes do not know the serial numbers......is that correct?

    And if you dont know the serial number, then effectively, you cant report it stolen....."yeah....it was a red trek with a rip in the saddle..."


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    #19
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,526 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    .

    In the case of organised bicycle theft, let's say you have a ban with 20 bicycles (conservative) in it, and each of those bicycles is worth €300, that's a crime worth €6,000. .


    So 20 stolen bikes = 1 stolen car......and you are wondering why the Gardai dont go around chasing the 20 stolen bikes.....


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    #20
    catastrophy
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭catastrophy


    Maybe I've missed something but are you suggesting that in the entire history of the state that gardai have never apprehended a bike thief?

    In my opinion the whole culture surrounding bikes needs to change. As things stand, bicycles are relatively easily stolen and sold. Identification of bicycles is difficult as mentioned above. On a purely anecdotal level, the returns simply are not viable to put huge resources into dealing solely with bicycle theft.


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    #21
    deadwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    I'm amazed that even a child wouldn't know to note the serial number of a bike or other valuables and take a few photos.

    Look at the amount of recovered and unclaimed bikes and property that go to auction.


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    #22
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,567 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Stolen bikes are so easily to use, trade in or dump, that it's hard for GS to deal with the crime. A paint-spray conceal's a lot. Most' if not all, GS stations run a scheme where you provide your local with the make, frame No, general description and a photo or two of your bike, so if it's stolen, they know what to look for. It help's you get it back if it's recovered. They also provide, or used to, bike owners with equipment to identity-mark bikes: untra-violet markers, metal-inscribers etc.

    Having said that, it also depends on the individual Garda following through on reported stolen bikes to ensure the system works. I had a bike stolen from my home (a tommasini) which I had markered, inscribed, photo'd and tippexed wheel rims inside.

    I reported the theft/break-in to Bray Gardai and filled out an insurance claim, which was paid out after some months. About 6 months later, I saw the bike in Dun Laoghaire and called local Garda to where the bike was. While I was waiting for them, a man approached the bike and took his lock off it. The Gardai showed up before he left and I showed one where I had marked etc the frame, wheels and handlebars. He was apparently satisfied that it was the bike stolen from me.

    However, when I mentioned that insurance had been paid out on the bike, the Garda took the name the man supplied, along with an address where he said he worked, and let him leave with the bike. I was stunned by this act and didn't bother taking his actions up with him, just reported his actions and details to Bray Gardai. His act in letting the man walk away with the bike left me hoping the D/L Garda's attitude was a once-off and he didn't take the same attitude towards his work obligations.


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    #23
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    No, not what I'm asking. I don't know anyone who's had a stolen bike found and returned by gardai. I haven't seen any postings on the extensive Stolen Bicycles thread on the Cycling forum of boards.ie with such information.

    http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=9358


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    #24
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    infacteh wrote: »
    http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=9358

    (The link leads to the three-year Garda strategy document, seeking guidance from the public - thanks very much.)

    No, I'm not suggesting that in the history of the Garda Síochána no stolen bicycle has been recovered.

    But I don't think the massive, profitable, Garda-contempt-evincing bicycle robbery industry is seriously investigated or targeted.


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    #25
    Kevin3
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Kevin3


    Video here with some crime prevention advice. Bit at the very end from Store Street Garda Station showing the amount of recovered bikes they have. I think it's obvious they do take bicycle theft seriously but it must be frustrating not being able to return so many bikes.

    The Garda has the same advice as other users; note the frame number/serial number and report it if it's stolen.



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    #26
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Kevin3 wrote: »
    Video here with some crime prevention advice. Bit at the very end from Store Street Garda Station showing the amount of recovered bikes they have. I think it's obvious they do take bicycle theft seriously but it must be frustrating not being able to return so many bikes.

    The Garda has the same advice as other users; note the frame number/serial number and report it if it's stolen.


    This is useful; thank you.

    Unfortunately, many of the reports in the Stolen Bicycles thread in the Cycling forum say things like "My bike was locked with three [named] locks..."


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    And if you dont know the serial number, then effectively, you cant report it stolen....."yeah....it was a red trek with a rip in the saddle..."

    Of course you can, just don't expect much hope of finding a white mens felt bike.


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    #28
    999nobody
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭999nobody


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    So it's always the victim's fault?

    I would happily bet good money (and I'm not a betting person) that a garda who brought a ring of bicycle thefts to book and offered, say, the Evening Herald or thejournal.ie the story and the chance of photos would get plenty of coverage.

    .

    The media are only interested in stories that bash the emergency services.


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    #29
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    999nobody wrote: »
    The media are only interested in stories that bash the emergency services.

    Absolutely not so. The media are interested in stories that their readers want to read, which sells copies, which gets advertising, which pays their wages and makes their profits.

    And what readers want to read is strong narrative - which can be "Garda Does Bad Thing" (cue: boooo, hissss), or "Garda Does Great Thing" (cue: yaaaaay, hooraaaaaay).

    I promise you, if you have a good strong story about gardaí - preferably bicycle gardaí - chasing down and arresting thieves with a van full of bicycles - and especially if there are pictures of the gardaí standing triumphantly at the back door of that van - you'll get a front-page lead.


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    #30
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    No, not what I'm asking. I don't know anyone who's had a stolen bike found and returned by gardai. I haven't seen any postings on the extensive Stolen Bicycles thread on the Cycling forum of boards.ie with such information.

    Have you ever gone to the Garda Bicycle auctions?


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    #31
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Bail is temporary. If they're convicted, it's not only up to the media - couldn't the gardai have a "successful prosecutions" website?

    NO, the Gardai are not media whores nor are we here to name and shame convicted criminals. The reporting system is within the fact that all court decisions are public domain information and available on the courts.ie website

    What the media print is a funny thing, sometimes you see a pretty minor case in the paper and the next day something big gets nothing. Not all courts have journalists in them unless they know theres a big case on.
    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Not reporting the theft is a vicious circle because people feel it won't be investigated; I have reported bike thefts in my time, and asked what were the chances of getting my bicycle (worth hundreds of euro) back, only to be answered with a limp shrug and a closing hatch.

    What else can the Garda do or say at the time? We cant predict the future. Its maybe a 20% chance but that number would fluctuate depending on where.
    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Here's the current page of the Stolen Bikes thread on the Cycling forum:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79939021#post79939021

    Theres probable about 500 bikes in Pearse and Store Street that were never matched to owners so maybe they should pop down with their bikes info instead of posting on the internet about it.
    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Are people aware that bikes have a serial number? I would guess most people dont. if you are into bikes, then of course you will know it.

    If you are not, and have bought your first bike in 20 years on the bike to work scheme, then you wont. how would you know.......

    I see your point BUT is The vast majority of property has a serial number. Its not a new concept.

    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    A simple thing to do would be run an ad campaign on RTE saying a lot of bikes are being stolen, this is what you do to avoid it, and this is what you do to report it.
    Its an idea allright, suggest it. Probable wont be noticed much more than the phone snatch ads but worth a shot.

    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    I'm assuming you are a Garda from your contributions; and you are telling us that many people who report stolen bikes do not know the serial numbers......is that correct?

    And if you dont know the serial number, then effectively, you cant report it stolen....."yeah....it was a red trek with a rip in the saddle..."

    You can report it BUT again, how are we going to find your "red mountain bike" because I have to be honest, less than 1 in 20 people know the make and model nevermind serial numbers. Its not like a car either that has a reg plate, insurance, etc and a database that can be checked or watched out for. Realistically even with a serial, are we supposed to grab every person cycling a red Trek for example? Someone mentioned CCTV, its not everywhere and how long does it take to watch a weekends worth of CCTV? Possible 2 or 3 cameras?

    Its a nice rant by the OP but its misdirected. Did the OP raise the spiraling crime issue at election time when Garda numbers were being cut and crime fighting was a distant second to budget cutting? Do most of the people that buy second hand make any effort to check the origin of the bike? Nike thiefs are selling them somewhere after-all.

    Every single Garda poster here predicted a drastic rise in crime, especially property theft but no one cared.

    So for the OP, thousands of bikes are recovered every year, some matched to owners, majority not for a variety of reasons but you don't really want to hear that do you? Just felt like a rant and if the Gardai advertised anti-crime operations in advance wouldnt that also alert the criminals? This isn't TV.


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