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Good to see Irish Rail has embraced (not) the Leap card

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    #32
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Driver and customer will not notice if the system decides to trigger an auto top up event.

    The fact the auto top up happens is recorded on the TGX150 and is uploaded with the normal leap usage data from the bus each evening and the LEAP back office deals with the direct debit request.

    Excellent News :D

    Is there any particular reason for keeping this significant positive development quiet.?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #33
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Auto top up does work on the bus.....

    The card still needs to touch at Luas, Irish Rail and Payzone to be configured for it.
    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Driver and customer will not notice if the system decides to trigger an auto top up event.

    The fact the auto top up happens is recorded on the TGX150 and is uploaded with the normal leap usage data from the bus each evening and the LEAP back office deals with the direct debit request.

    Surely there'll be a threshold that once it goes under, the auto topup is triggered, so a user should know when to expect it. Then at the end of the transaction you'll see the balance of the card updated.


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    #34
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The card still needs to touch at Luas, Irish Rail and Payzone to be configured for it.
    Or if you order a leap card with auto top up pre enabled
    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Surely there'll be a threshold that once it goes under, the auto topup is triggered, so a user should know when to expect it. Then at the end of the transaction you'll see the balance of the card updated.

    There is no tone or other obvious indicator to the customer that the top up has taken place, it just happens


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    #35
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Or if you order a leap card with auto top up pre enabled

    Hmm, dunno, have they released anything saying that?
    goingnowhere wrote: »
    There is no tone or other obvious indicator to the customer that the top up has taken place, it just happens

    But it happens when your balance goes under a certain threshold, keep an eye on your balance and you'll know when to expect it. Watch what the screen displays as your balance after and you should see it's applied.


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    #36
    robd
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Excellent News :D

    Is there any particular reason for keeping this significant positive development quiet.?

    It's not rolled out yet. Only in friendly user trials.


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    #37
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The card still needs to touch at Luas, Irish Rail and Payzone to be configured for it.

    Surely there'll be a threshold that once it goes under, the auto topup is triggered, so a user should know when to expect it. Then at the end of the transaction you'll see the balance of the card updated.

    This very element,in the current economic climate could be somewhat off-putting to many potential users...

    https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d
    3.4 Auto Top-Up - Coming Soon

    (a) The terms and conditions in this section 3.4 shall be binding on any Leap Card customer who avails of the Auto Top-Up facility (when introduced).

    (b) Registered and Personalised Leap Card customers can apply for the Auto Top-Up facility by completing the online application form available at www.leapcard.ie. As part of the application process the Leap Card customer must nominate an account with an accepted payment source (as per sub-section (h) below) from which Auto Top-Ups can be debited (the “Account”).

    (c) The Leap Card customer is responsible for ensuring that the Account information is accurate and up to date and that his/her Account is at all times valid and contains sufficient funds or credit in order to meet deductions by the Authority in accordance with these Terms and Conditions. Leap Card customers can update their Account information Online. Leap Card customers shall inform Leap Card Customer Care immediately of any closure or termination of the Account.

    (d) The Authority will set a minimum Travel Credit balance (the “threshold”) from time to time. With Auto Top-Up, when a Leap Card customer’s Travel Credit balance falls below the threshold, the Leap Card will be automatically reloaded with Leap Card customer’s pre-selected reload value (the “reload value”), and simultaneously an instruction will automatically be sent to debit the reload value from the Account. The initial threshold is set at €15.00.

    (e) During the application for Auto Top-Up, Leap Card customers may designate a reload value (e.g. €20.00, €30.00, €40.00 or €50.00). The Leap Card customer may not change the reload value once Auto Top-Up has been enabled.

    (f) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein contained, the Leap Card customer agrees that a minimum period of 7 days must elapse between each Auto Top-Up. The Authority shall not be obliged to top-up an Auto Top-Up enabled Leap Card until after the Leap Card customer’s Account has been successfully debited for any previous Auto Top-Ups.

    (g) The Leap Card customer’s online account will display details of the Auto Top-Up amounts that the Leap Card customer has chosen.

    (h) Auto Top-Up may only be paid for via direct debit payments using the Leap Card customer’s designated current account; Credit card payments will not be accepted as a payment method for Auto Top-Up.

    (i) Leap Card customers may cancel their Auto Top-Up facility Online at any time. The cancellation request only becomes effective when configured on to the Leap Card. Until the Leap Card is configured, the Auto Top-Up remains in place and the Authority will not be liable for any Auto Top-Up prior to configuration. The Leap Card customer will nominate online where the Leap Card will be taken for configuration. Note that currently Leap Card customers are not able to nominate the Validators on Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann for configuration. The Authority will endeavour to ensure that the cancellation request will be available for configuration on to the Leap Card as soon as possible; however, it cannot guarantee that the request will be available sooner than 48 hours after cancellation.

    (j) If an Auto Top-Up instruction for a Leap Card is rejected by a Leap Card customer’s financial institution, the Authority reserves the right to do any or all of the following:

    i. Recover from the Leap Card customer the amount of any rejected transaction plus all costs incurred (including legal costs on a full indemnity basis) by the Authority for the recovery of any such amounts.

    ii. Withdraw the Auto Top-Up facility from the Leap Card customer.

    iii. Suspend the use of the Leap Card for such period as may be determined by the Authority.

    iv. Cancel the Leap Card.

    v. Disqualify the Leap Card customer from applying for any new Auto Top-Up facility for such length of time as may be determined to be appropriate by the Authority.

    vi. Deduct or set-off any monies owing to the Authority from the remaining value and any Deposit in respect of the Leap Card.

    (k) The Authority reserves the right to withdraw the Auto Top-Up facility for all Leap Card customers at its discretion or modify either the reload value or the threshold value.

    I believe the €15 trigger-point is too high and I also have reservations on the amount of minimum top-up,which appears to be €20.

    Given the erratic nature of the current on-line Top-Up service and (36 Hours for my last one) I am now confident that this explains the notion of,yet another,"Soft-Launch"....:)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #38
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    This very element,in the current economic climate could be somewhat off-putting to many potential users...

    https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d



    I believe the €15 trigger-point is too high and I also have reservations on the amount of minimum top-up,which appears to be €20.

    Given the erratic nature of the current on-line Top-Up service and (36 Hours for my last one) I am now confident that this explains the notion of,yet another,"Soft-Launch"....:)
    Remember also that you will only be allowed one auto top-up a week so choose your top-up amount carefully when the feature eventually becomes available.


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    #39
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Remember also that you will only be allowed one auto top-up a week so choose your top-up amount carefully when the feature eventually becomes available.

    Wow the combination of not being able to change the top-up amount and only one top up a week, make this another big mistake :mad:


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    #40
    carlmango11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭carlmango11


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Remember also that you will only be allowed one auto top-up a week so choose your top-up amount carefully when the feature eventually becomes available.

    What's the logic behind this decision?


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    #41
    robd
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    carlmango11 wrote: »
    What's the logic behind this decision?

    Standard anti fraud measure. The topup is offline. i.e. The card gets the credit added to it at validator/gate, then at the end of the day all the topups are pushed to central server, then Credit Card Payments and Direct Debits requests are processed.

    The threshold amount and only per week measure do see a little too stringent. Perhaps, they will reduce over time. Perhaps the €15 was picked cause it's near to twice the maximum fare that a leap card can do?

    Would have thought the auto topup amount is stored in the card so you should be able to change it at a Ticketing machine in the future. Again someone with more specific knowledge of the cards might no more.


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    #42
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,321 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    deRanged wrote: »
    would that be all stations in Ireland, do you know?
    No, it would be stations in the Dublin area that are already Leap-enabled. Strictly speaking, Leap is a Dublin Transport Authority product.


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    #43
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Victor wrote: »
    No, it would be stations in the Dublin area that are already Leap-enabled. Strictly speaking, Leap is a Dublin Transport Authority product.

    Which is a bit short sighted. A country our size, it really should be a national project. Just like the new Journey Planner and RTPI projects.

    No reasons why Leap couldn't be used on Cork city bus services, Irish Rail Cork Commuter services, etc.


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    #44
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,321 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    carlmango11 wrote: »
    What's the logic behind this decision?
    It also stops a lot of confusion from over-lapping transactions.


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    #45
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,593 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    bk wrote: »
    Which is a bit short sighted. A country our size, it really should be a national project. Just like the new Journey Planner and RTPI projects.

    No reasons why Leap couldn't be used on Cork city bus services, Irish Rail Cork Commuter services, etc.

    I would agree - but at a later stage. Get the Greater Dublin rollout complete and fully functioning before biting off more than one can chew.

    I'd far prefer they took their time and get the thing right before going on huge expansions.


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    #46
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I would agree - but at a later stage. Get the Greater Dublin rollout complete and fully functioning before biting off more than one can chew.

    I'd far prefer they took their time and get the thing right before going on huge expansions.

    Lxflyer,I cannot see you having ANY problems of that nature with Leapcard...when God made time in Leapcardland,he made PLENTY of it !!!:rolleyes:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #47
    curryman
    Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭curryman


    Ticket Machines in Heuston Station started getting upgraded this evening with leap stickers also being put on them.


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    #48
    carlmango11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭carlmango11


    Not sure if this is old news but Leap is working with machines in Pearse.

    One thing I noticed though. When I put my card into the pocket the screen said "Status: Tagged On". If by that they meant I had touched onto a Luas or Dart then it's wrong. I had taken the bus earlier that's it. Anything else it could mean?

    Wouldn't be Irish Rail if it worked fine. ...impending rant must control myself.


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    #49
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    carlmango11 wrote: »
    Not sure if this is old news but Leap is working with machines in Pearse.

    One thing I noticed though. When I put my card into the pocket the screen said "Status: Tagged On". If by that they meant I had touched onto a Luas or Dart then it's wrong. I had taken the bus earlier that's it. Anything else it could mean?

    Wouldn't be Irish Rail if it worked fine. ...impending rant must control myself.
    You should check and see were you charged for a journey at the time it said you were tagged on.


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    #50
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    If the last journey was Dublin Bus it will show tagged on or tagged off, based on the time elapsed

    On Luas machines you will see 'time exceeded' for the same situation


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    #51
    carlmango11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭carlmango11


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    If the last journey was Dublin Bus it will show tagged on or tagged off, based on the time elapsed

    On Luas machines you will see 'time exceeded' for the same situation

    I had used the bus ~8 hours beforehand though? Actually I'm pretty sure I didn't even use my Leap card on it now that I think about it!

    Also I checked the website: I wasn't charged for any journies so that's not it..


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