[EV] Renault Fluence ZE [large photos]

beazee · 04-05-2012 09:33PM #1

Took her for a 40 min test drive today. 160km range (manufacturers statement)
22kW battery pack in boot (took half of the loading space) but offers the facility of battery swap. When fully established by "Better Place" in California, Hawaii and Japan will allow battery swap in less than 2 minutes.

According to dealership rep - 96km long stretch of motorway left him with ca. 30km left.

So lets put her to the tests:

1. Engine "started up", lights on, stationary, 0kW consumption

2. M9 Waterford - Kilkenny, cruise control set at 120kmh, flat stretch, 26kW consumed (instant reading)
22/26*120= battery should allow for 101km distance in 51 minutes to flat

3. CC at 110kmh, flat stretch, 18kW
22/18*110= 134km distance in 73 min

4. CC at 100, flat, 16kW
22/16*100= 137km dist in 83 min

5. CC at 96kmh, downhill, 6kW feed to battery (charging up)

6. CC at 96kmh, flat, 12kW
22/12*96=176kmh in 1h50m

7. CC at 90kmh, flat, 9kW
22/9*90= 220km in 2h26m

8. Approaching motorway end at Grannagh with 50kmh limit, CC off, foot off accelerator, "engine breaking" => 30kW feed to battery (charging up)

9. When accelerator floored to the max from stop, energy consumption reached 80kW for few seconds [when done in the same manner in my 1.4 petrol indicaton was 4MPG]

10. Rapid acceleration within motorway speeds (90-120) never went over 36 kW

11. Just because the inside is so quiet and so many noises from outside are heard it felt bit freaky to go over 120kmh, seriously!

12. One extreme hill was 46kW climbing up [usually get 10mpg uphill for my petrol there]

13. Boot space is bit dissapointing (317 l)

14. Currently offers no fast-charge option (will be introduced in 2013, 40min to full)

15. Friends+family charging option: 8 Amp charger (ca. 7-8 hrs to 100%) allows to charge from any domestic socket.

16. Household charging station, installed at ones home by ESB (ca. 5-6 hrs to full)

MuppetCheck · 04-05-2012 09:40PM

Good to see figures like those however I find it ridiculous that you or your front seat passenger was reaching across to take photos like that on the M9 motorway.

beazee · 04-05-2012 09:43PM

He did.

-Corkie- · 04-05-2012 09:47PM

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Good to see figures like those however I find it ridiculous that you or your front seat passenger was reaching across to take photos like that on the M9 motorway.

Especially the one of the boot....:pac:

MugMugs · 04-05-2012 09:51PM

Battery charge when engine breaking? Is that right?

MuppetCheck · 04-05-2012 09:51PM

beazee wrote: »

He did.

Doesn't matter which one of you it was. There was a man killed on that stretch only a month ago and the surface is questionable at times too. Couple this with farm machinery that regularly use it that was irresponsible.

beazee · 04-05-2012 10:09PM

MugMugs wrote: »

Battery charge when engine breaking? Is that right?

That it totally right but when mentioned about it in some other thread a discussion about thermodynamics broke.

beazee · 04-05-2012 10:11PM

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Couple this with farm machinery that regularly use it that was irresponsible.

How come farm machinery is allowed on M9?

MugMugs · 04-05-2012 10:14PM

beazee wrote: »

MugMugs wrote: »

Battery charge when engine breaking? Is that right?

That it totally right but when mentioned about it in some other thread a discussion about thermodynamics broke.

That's interesting. You can prolong your journey with intermittent charges from engine braking?

beazee · 04-05-2012 10:18PM

MugMugs wrote: »

That's interesting. You can prolong your journey with intermittent charges from engine braking?

You can actually charge fully depleted LEAF by being towed and breaking.
Not that Nissan approves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sujv90PLLY

MuppetCheck · 04-05-2012 10:23PM

beazee wrote: »

How come farm machinery is allowed on M9?

It's not and is a danger. Like your test drive.

eringobragh · 04-05-2012 10:28PM

beazee wrote: »

How come farm machinery is allowed on M9?

If it's capable of exceeding 50kmph it's allowed no?

Gumbo · 04-05-2012 10:32PM

MuppetCheck wrote: »

It's not and is a danger. Like your test drive.

Jez, get over it. His passenger took the photos, and with zooms on modern cameras and phones for that matter, its not like he was in his face blocking the road in front.

remember that the next time you reach over to pick up a drink while driving, or change the radio station or scratch your knee.

Kristopherus · 04-05-2012 10:34PM

MuppetCheck wrote: »

It's not and is a danger. Like your test drive.

Crikey, there's always one.:eek: :rolleyes:

TestTransmission · 04-05-2012 10:36PM

Seriously folks,back on topic

MuppetCheck · 04-05-2012 10:38PM

kceire wrote: »

Jez, get over it. His passenger took the photos, and with zooms on modern cameras and phones for that matter, its not like he was in his face blocking the road in front.

remember that the next time you reach over to pick up a drink while driving, or change the radio station or scratch your knee.

Some zoom! That's proper reaching over for that angle meaning someone is in a bad position in the car. It's more than changing a radio station and as someone that was in an accident as a result of something similar I am a little more in tune to such stupidity.

Edit - just saw previous post. I was typing at the time.

naughtysmurf · 04-05-2012 11:03PM

Was having my Fluence diesel serviced today and so had a peek at the Fluence EV, there is practically no boot space at all with the positioning of the battery so it's not practical as a family car at all

They do plan to bring out another EV for less than 20K around the size of a Clio I'm led to believe, if they get the positioning of the battery sorted it could be interesting.

We have & need / require two cars, one does 20-30K per year, the other 7/8K so a practical EV at the right price would definatley fit the bill

beazee · 04-05-2012 11:10PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

They do plan to bring out another EV for less than 20K around the size of a Clio I'm led to believe, if they get the positioning of the battery sorted it could be interesting.

Renault Zoe that is. With underfloor battery and fast charger on board (=> you could connect her to any changing point to fast charge unlike LEAF).
Ca. 15K figure I was led to believe. And expected date of October 2012.

Battery leasing would be ca. €70 pm at 16,000km pa

Bandara · 04-05-2012 11:10PM

Anyway

Back to the point (and I'm genuinely not trying to turn this into a evs are stoopid thread)

Is it just not too difficult at the minute to really justify one?

I fully understand the fuel cost situation is absurd at the moment and alternatives have to be found, but is the EV really not viable to compete in the open marketplace with a regular car as its so limited. I know that in reality most people do less than 30-40 miles a day so in fact the EV is perfect, but its just the "but what if I want to drive to Cork and back" argument that blows the EVs out of the water. We all know that people dont just drive to Cork and back, but still the inflexibility of the EV is just far too much for me. The whole "but you can put into a station in such a place a charge for 30 minutes and go again" is a nonsense, I dont think I've ever spend more than 10 minutes in a station in my life, and I'm being generous at even ten minutes, and the idea of hanging around for half an hour is brutal, I've visions of sitting down to watch my kettle boil ten times in a row !

And as a car lover the performance is a killer. I couldn't personally drive a boring bog standard ford mondeo and similarly I cant drive a EV, the looks, the power, its just a step too far.

I think the realility is for me its still in development, expect this time they have real life versions now, whereas 5 or 10 years ago it was concept stuff in motor shows. And taking this argument forward in 5 or 10 years time they will have the technology to hopefully have a EV car that stands up to a (for example) a decent 2 ltr car with decent bhp.

You mention in your post that the battery pack is interchangable ? But does that not mean you need to shell out on a second battery pack? Or am I getting mixed up?

beazee · 04-05-2012 11:20PM

Hammertime wrote: »

battery pack is interchangable ? But does that not mean you need to shell out on a second battery pack? Or am I getting mixed up?

Idea behind Renault/Better Place project was all batteries are owned by Renault/Better Place and only leased to customers.

You run out of juice - arrive at Better Place battery swap station, swipe card, enter process similar to carwash, leave within 2 minutes.

Well, you need significant amt of cars to make money on this. Won't happen in Ireland.

naughtysmurf · 04-05-2012 11:59PM

Hammertime wrote: »

Anyway

Back to the point (and I'm genuinely not trying to turn this into a evs are stoopid thread)

Is it just not too difficult at the minute to really justify one?

I fully understand the fuel cost situation is absurd at the moment and alternatives have to be found, but is the EV really not viable to compete in the open marketplace with a regular car as its so limited. I know that in reality most people do less than 30-40 miles a day so in fact the EV is perfect, but its just the "but what if I want to drive to Cork and back" argument that blows the EVs out of the water. We all know that people dont just drive to Cork and back, but still the inflexibility of the EV is just far too much for me. The whole "but you can put into a station in such a place a charge for 30 minutes and go again" is a nonsense, I dont think I've ever spend more than 10 minutes in a station in my life, and I'm being generous at even ten minutes, and the idea of hanging around for half an hour is brutal, I've visions of sitting down to watch my kettle boil ten times in a row !

And as a car lover the performance is a killer. I couldn't personally drive a boring bog standard ford mondeo and similarly I cant drive a EV, the looks, the power, its just a step too far.

I think the realility is for me its still in development, expect this time they have real life versions now, whereas 5 or 10 years ago it was concept stuff in motor shows. And taking this argument forward in 5 or 10 years time they will have the technology to hopefully have a EV car that stands up to a (for example) a decent 2 ltr car with decent bhp.

You mention in your post that the battery pack is interchangable ? But does that not mean you need to shell out on a second battery pack? Or am I getting mixed up?

Their range at the moment is an issue without doubt but I'd expect that to improve over time, oil also is a finate resourse (so they say) so an alternative fuel source will have to be found

I've a 10/15 minute comute to work so don't really have time to get board

so would happily drive an EV taking into account short commute, running costs etc

I'd see them as a second car at the moment as I agree, they are still in development

As I understant it, with Renault, as you are leasing the battery, so not owning it, it wouldn't cost you anything for a battery upgrade

eth0 · 05-05-2012 12:12AM

I don't believe in this renting batteries codology

Pkiernan · 05-05-2012 01:28AM

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Doesn't matter which one of you it was. There was a man killed on that stretch only a month ago and the surface is questionable at times too. Couple this with farm machinery that regularly use it that was irresponsible.

Relax FFS :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Marcusm · 05-05-2012 02:21PM

eth0 wrote: »

I don't believe in this renting batteries codology

Where battery switching technology as per the Renault/BetterPlace offer applies, I think you'll find it's far from codology. Read the EV posts on here and you'll see two of the biggest issues putting people off are "range anxiety" and battery obsolescence. If the R/BP offer comes to Ireland (not unless big uptake) then both issues can be dealt with. They install 2 power points for you, one at home and one at work. Both are relatively speedy smart charge points - they'll charge off cheap night rate electricity and usually the electricity cost is included meaning your monthly charge is your fuel cost. Range anxiety is dealt with by the quick switching points, located at service stations etc. if 2 minutes is achievable, that's quicker than a top up with petrol. As the battery is owned by BP, you don't have to worry about obsolescence.

Great for high density population areas with high car usage (Israel and Denmark were initial run outs).

No EV will be a perfect swap for a common car but this could close - not in Ireland though, I'd imagine.

Idbatterim · 05-05-2012 04:16PM

do EV's use low resistance tyres and just how aerodynamic are they?

September1 · 05-05-2012 05:01PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

do EV's use low resistance tyres and just how aerodynamic are they?

Yes, most of manufacturers provide LRR tyres as they extend range. Those EVs that were converted from ICEs would usually inherit aerodynamic properties, maybe with some improvements. Cars that were designed to be EVs try to be as aerodynamic as possible, GM's EV1 is good example.

beazee · 09-05-2012 09:35AM

An overnight 12 hour charge didn’t help and in the morning, while the battery gauge showed the Fluence was full to the brim with excited electrons, the on-board computer was pessimistically predicting I’d be hitching a lift after 88kms. Who to trust: car or car company?

Against most people’s advice I opted for the car company. On the M50 at motorway speeds everything was fine and I purposefully didn’t lighten my right foot at any stage of the 53km trip. By the time I arrived, the battery gauge showed half a charge left and the onboard computer grudgingly admitted I still had 55kms in the bank. By the time I got back to the office and then home, I had completed a monumental 101.8kms and the well-beaten on-board computer was showing I still could drive another 19kms. Human - 1: onboard computer – 0

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2012/0509/1224315794882.html

zuroph · 29-06-2012 12:09AM

Thanks for this, the exact info I required, would get me to work no problem.
As side note, Renault dealer informed me that they are currently waiving the rental fee for battery for two years on purchases made this year

beazee · 30-06-2012 11:26PM

zuroph wrote: »

they are currently waiving the rental fee

Correct. But th problem with 2012 Fluence ZE is no fast charging option. Zoe, launch in Oct, seems to be a better deal.

zuroph · 01-07-2012 04:04PM

could i expect the same range on the zoe?

beazee · 02-07-2012 12:05PM

Same range, possibly same boot space and on-board fast charger.
Expected to be priced at €16K + €70 pm battery rental (2y free waiver).

Photos source: http://www.facebook.com/RenaultZE

[EV] Renault Fluence ZE [large photos]

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