Irish soldiers in WW1 - Page 3 - boards.ie
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06-10-2011, 09:25   #31
jameswburke
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FW Hall, VC

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_doyle View Post
his father was from North Shields, Northumberland; his mother from Canterbury, Kent.

His eldest sister Ada was born in Ireland; the next sister and younger brother (Edmund) and youngest sister were born in England according to the 1891 census.

1901 census has Frederick as a boy soldier in Chatham, Kent. He appears to have 2 more brothers Percy Albert and Henry C, both born Lancashire.

There is a family tree on Ancestry with the senior Frederick but the owner doesn't appear to know about the VC winner (or rather doesn't have any info). The grandmother was living at 43 Union Road, West Ham in the 1911 census ie the address on the CWGC entry.

An online tree is at

http://www.chalfont.eclipse.co.uk/halls.html
That's brilliant. Our local paper in Kilkenny will be doing an appeal for local info next week, so we hope to find the family's address in Kilkenny, Ireland. I will post here any information which comes to light - the Irish have long memories!
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06-10-2011, 09:32   #32
jameswburke
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Originally Posted by R.Dub.Fusilier View Post
here is his page from irelands Memorial Records.

here is a link to his CWGC page in case you havent seen it http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_...sualty=1592737
Hi. Thanks for that - I saw they had him down as Canadian. The link below has his attestation papers (joining up papers) where he gives his birthplace as Kilkenny, Ireland. I suppose everyone loves a winner. I've even seen him on an Ulster website, listed as being born in Belfast!

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collec...photos/1592737
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06-10-2011, 10:03   #33
enfield
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jameswburke

There were 745 men and women from Kilkenny killed in ww1.
Cheers.
Tom.
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06-10-2011, 10:10   #34
jameswburke
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Kilkenny war dead 1914-18

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There were 745 men and women from Kilkenny killed in ww1.
Cheers.
Tom.

Hi Tom. Where did you see that figure? Do you have details?
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06-10-2011, 11:46   #35
enfield
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WW1

It is from The War Dead Databases Project;

The War Dead Databases Project.
museumtom@gmail.com
The aim of the project is to formulate and collect any book or database that lists Irish casualties who died as a result of war.
The purpose of this is to finally put a correct figure on the Irishmen and Irishwomen that died in the Great War and to assemble them according to their county.

The Irish Government have been approached in a bid to update and amend Irelands Memorial Records, to date, they are unwilling to do so. The President of Ireland was asked if she could or would help. She did not reply. A letter was written to Queen Elizabeth as these were soldiers of the English King. She replied that it was not the policy of British Government to meddle in the affairs of a foreign State. Mr Enda Kenny and five other present Ministers were asked to help, they did not reply.
Let it be known ;-
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM!


The Kilkenny database was completed last year and will be added to the main Roll of Honour. This Roll of Honour will not be complete until there is one complete alphabetical list of the Irish WW1 casulaties which will include all mention of military personnel in regional and rural newspapers of the period. The project is ongoing and the powers that be do not wish to know.
The sources for the Kilkenny casualties are;
Sources; The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Soldiers Died in the Great War. Soldiers of the Great War. The New Library and Archives Canada. The National Archives of Australia. Nominal Rolls of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force. De Ruvignys Roll of Honour, The War Graves of the British Empire, Commonwealth War Graves Commission registers for the Irish Free State, Irelands Memorial Records. The Tipperary War Dead, The Wexford War Dead, The Wicklow War Dead, The Offaly War Dead, The Waterford War Dead, The Kerry war Dead, University of St Andrews Roll of Honour, Souvenir of the Great Naval Battle, Call to Arms, Montreal’s Roll of Honour, Croydon and the Great War, Artists Rifles Roll of Honour, Princes Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour, 1914-1919, Sligo 1914-1921, Irish at the Front, New Zealand Roll of Honour, Irish on the Somme, Tenth Irish Division in Gallipoli, The National Roll of the Great War, London, Blackrock College Roll of Honour, South Irish Horse Casualties, The First Five Hundred, Great War Memorial in St Canice’s Cathedral, Kilkenny. WW1 Irish Soldiers; Their Final Testament, Roll of the sons and daughters of the Anglican Church, The Roll of Honour, Five months on a German Raider, The Munster Express, RGA Enlistments—Ireland, WW1 Irish Soldiers wills, Record of service of solicitors and articled clerks with His Majesty's forces, 1914-1919, Irish Submariners (Barrie Downer), Lijssenthoek Cemetery Project, Our Heroes, Wigs and Guns, Soldiers of the Great War (USA), The Distinguished Service Order, Bond of Sacrifice, King’s County Chronicle, Public Records Office, the West Australian, The London Gazette, Flight, The Tipperary Star, The Kilkenny Journal, The Kilkenny People, 1901 and 1911 Census, The Carlow Sentinel, The Leinster Express, The Waterford News, “The Argus” (Melbourne), “The Poverty Bay Herald”, Harrow Memorials, volume 1; Harrow School Register, 1845-1925; Harrovian War Supplement, “The Times”, The Nationalist and Leinster Times, The Enniscorthy Guardian, The Clare Journal.
The references above is not a complete list of available works. The 'database bank' is steadily growing and completed counties are constantly being updated as new casualties are found or brought 'In from the Cold'.

Last edited by enfield; 06-10-2011 at 11:57.
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06-10-2011, 11:59   #36
jameswburke
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Kilkenny war dead 1914-18

Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield View Post
It is from The War Dead Databases Project;

The War Dead Databases Project.
museumtom@gmail.com
The aim of the project is to formulate and collect any book or database that lists Irish casualties who died as a result of war.
The purpose of this is to finally put a correct figure on the Irishmen and Irishwomen that died in the Great War and to assemble them according to their county.

The Irish Government have been approached in a bid to update and amend Irelands Memorial Records, to date, they are unwilling to do so. The President of Ireland was asked if she could or would help. She did not reply. A letter was written to Queen Elizabeth as these were soldiers of the English King. She replied that it was not the policy of British Government to meddle in the affairs of a foreign State. Mr Enda Kenny and five other present Ministers were asked to help, they did not reply.
Let it be known ;-
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM!


The Kilkenny database was completed last year and will be added to the main Roll of Honour. This Roll of Honour will not be complete until there is one complete alphabetical list of the Irish WW1 casulaties which will include all mention of military personnel in regional and rural newspapers of the period. The project is ongoing and the powers that be do not wish to know.
The sources for the Kilkenny casualties are;
Sources; The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Soldiers Died in the Great War. Soldiers of the Great War. The New Library and Archives Canada. The National Archives of Australia. Nominal Rolls of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force. De Ruvignys Roll of Honour, The War Graves of the British Empire, Commonwealth War Graves Commission registers for the Irish Free State, Irelands Memorial Records. The Tipperary War Dead, The Wexford War Dead, The Wicklow War Dead, The Offaly War Dead, The Waterford War Dead, The Kerry war Dead, University of St Andrews Roll of Honour, Souvenir of the Great Naval Battle, Call to Arms, Montreal’s Roll of Honour, Croydon and the Great War, Artists Rifles Roll of Honour, Princes Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, University of Edinburgh Roll of Honour, 1914-1919, Sligo 1914-1921, Irish at the Front, New Zealand Roll of Honour, Irish on the Somme, Tenth Irish Division in Gallipoli, The National Roll of the Great War, London, Blackrock College Roll of Honour, South Irish Horse Casualties, The First Five Hundred, Great War Memorial in St Canice’s Cathedral, Kilkenny. WW1 Irish Soldiers; Their Final Testament, Roll of the sons and daughters of the Anglican Church, The Roll of Honour, Five months on a German Raider, The Munster Express, RGA Enlistments—Ireland, WW1 Irish Soldiers wills, Record of service of solicitors and articled clerks with His Majesty's forces, 1914-1919, Irish Submariners (Barrie Downer), Lijssenthoek Cemetery Project, Our Heroes, Wigs and Guns, Soldiers of the Great War (USA), The Distinguished Service Order, Bond of Sacrifice, King’s County Chronicle, Public Records Office, the West Australian, The London Gazette, Flight, The Tipperary Star, The Kilkenny Journal, The Kilkenny People, 1901 and 1911 Census, The Carlow Sentinel, The Leinster Express, The Waterford News, “The Argus” (Melbourne), “The Poverty Bay Herald”, Harrow Memorials, volume 1; Harrow School Register, 1845-1925; Harrovian War Supplement, “The Times”, The Nationalist and Leinster Times, The Enniscorthy Guardian, The Clare Journal.
Thanks Tom, that's a great project. The official Irish non-cooperation doesn't surprise me. We are working on a list compiled by Pte Jim O'Keeffe at KK barracks and research done by historian John Kirwan who is to publish a book on the subject. I look forward to seeing the entire list some day.
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06-10-2011, 12:07   #37
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I think you should also contact each of the Presidential candidates today and ask for a response on this question, if elected would they support the initiative ? If so, how ?

I would make it clear to each candidate's campaign/press office that you have also contacted each of the other candidates and intend to distribute and publish the response of each one.
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06-10-2011, 12:17   #38
clumhoho
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Well lads,
A mate of mine actually wrote a book about this very topic and i would definitely recommend it. A great read. He also won the Argosy Non-Fiction Book of the Year award at last years Irish Book Awards. Some very interesting stories about Irish soldiers who served in WWI.
He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this stuff so look him up if you get the chance.
The book in 'A coward if I return, A hero if I fall' by Neil Richardson
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06-10-2011, 12:35   #39
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Last edited by enfield; 07-10-2011 at 07:56.
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06-10-2011, 13:19   #40
enfield
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Irelands Memorial Records
This was formulated in the 1920’s and accepted all soldiers in an Irish regiment as being an Irishman, which is a fatal error. This has led to the famous figure of 49,600 quoted as the ‘official’ number of Irishmen and Irishwomen died during the Great War. In ‘The Tipperary War Dead’ which lists the total number from that county at 1,460, Irelands Memorial Records only has 950. Irelands Memorial Records is an obsolete, incomplete, corrupt, database with many double entries and outright errors. It does not give burial locations. This database sometimes has conflicting data than that found in The Commonwealth War Graves Commission and Soldiers Died in the Great War.
So how many Irish men and women died in the Great War? We really do not know and will not know until this project is completed and we finally have one single alphabetical list of these poor forgotten souls.
We will remember.
Cheers.
Tom.

Last edited by enfield; 06-10-2011 at 13:23.
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06-10-2011, 17:46   #41
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Originally Posted by jameswburke View Post
Hi. Thanks for that - I saw they had him down as Canadian. The link below has his attestation papers (joining up papers) where he gives his birthplace as Kilkenny, Ireland. I suppose everyone loves a winner. I've even seen him on an Ulster website, listed as being born in Belfast!

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collec...photos/1592737

his birth registration is Kilkenny

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFY9-8VF/p1


the older sisters birth was registered in Belfast

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFTF-TW9/p1

though Kilkenny was entered on some documents as place of birth.
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06-10-2011, 17:55   #42
jameswburke
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his birth registration is Kilkenny

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFY9-8VF/p1


the older sisters birth was registered in Belfast

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MFTF-TW9/p1

though Kilkenny was entered on some documents as place of birth.

Excellent. That settles it once & for all. Now to find his address in Kilkenny.
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06-10-2011, 18:43   #43
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HALL, FREDERICK WILLIAM. Rank: Company Sergeant Major. Regiment or Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment). Unit; 8th Battalion. Date of Death:25-April-1915. Age at Death, 28. Service No:1539. Killed in Action.
Supplementary information; Son of Mary Hall, of 43, Union Rd. , Leytonstone, London, and the late Bmdr. F. Hall.
The London Gazette, No. 29202. Dated 23rd June;-
"On 24th April, 1915, in the neighbourhood of Ypres, when a wounded man who was lying some 15 yards from the trench called for help, Company Serjeant-Major Hall endeavoured to reach him in the face of a very heavy enfilade fire which was being poured in by the enemy. The first attempt failed, and a non-commissioned officer and private soldier who were attempting to give assistance were both wounded. Company Serjeant-Major Hall then made a second most gallant attempt, and was in the act of lifting up the wounded man to bring him in when he fell mortally wounded in the head. "
Next of kin listed as (mother), Mrs M Hall, 260 Young Street, Winnipeg.
Place of birth, Kilkenny, Ireland. Date of birth, 21-February-1885. Occupation on enlistment, Clerk. Belonged to the 106th Light Infantry prior to enlistment and previous military experience of 12 years, four months with the 1st Cameronians.
Place and date of enlistment, Valcartier, 26-September-1914. Address on enlistment,. Height, 5 feet, 8 inches. Complexion, ruddy. Eyes, brown. Hair, auburn.
Grave or Memorial Reference: Has no known grave but is commemorated on Panel 24 - 26 - 28 – 30 on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial in Belgium.
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06-10-2011, 19:08   #44
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HALL, FREDERICK WILLIAM. Rank: Company Sergeant Major. Regiment or Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment). Unit; 8th Battalion. Date of Death:25-April-1915. Age at Death, 28. Service No:1539. Killed in Action.
Supplementary information; Son of Mary Hall, of 43, Union Rd. , Leytonstone, London, and the late Bmdr. F. Hall.
The London Gazette, No. 29202. Dated 23rd June;-
"On 24th April, 1915, in the neighbourhood of Ypres, when a wounded man who was lying some 15 yards from the trench called for help, Company Serjeant-Major Hall endeavoured to reach him in the face of a very heavy enfilade fire which was being poured in by the enemy. The first attempt failed, and a non-commissioned officer and private soldier who were attempting to give assistance were both wounded. Company Serjeant-Major Hall then made a second most gallant attempt, and was in the act of lifting up the wounded man to bring him in when he fell mortally wounded in the head. "
Next of kin listed as (mother), Mrs M Hall, 260 Young Street, Winnipeg.
Place of birth, Kilkenny, Ireland. Date of birth, 21-February-1885. Occupation on enlistment, Clerk. Belonged to the 106th Light Infantry prior to enlistment and previous military experience of 12 years, four months with the 1st Cameronians.
Place and date of enlistment, Valcartier, 26-September-1914. Address on enlistment,. Height, 5 feet, 8 inches. Complexion, ruddy. Eyes, brown. Hair, auburn.
Grave or Memorial Reference: Has no known grave but is commemorated on Panel 24 - 26 - 28 – 30 on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial in Belgium.
Blimey - that's comprehensive. Thanks very much for all that.
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06-10-2011, 19:09   #45
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ww1

Thats from the Kilkenny database.
Regards
Tom.
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