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Digital Signal Meter

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  • 07-02-2011 10:52am
    #1
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭


    Hi
    Does anyone recommend a basic Digital Signal Meter for checking aerial alignment and signal quality?


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    #2
    St Senan
    Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    Have a look here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056168642


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    #3
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Does anyone know what is a good software for Windows PC for checking digital signal from DTT landbase transmitter for checking aerial alignment and signal quality and so on?
    I have hauppauge DTT tuner for my laptop


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    #4
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Never seen it.
    Also would not like a laptop on chimbly.

    Oddly most software does just signal level which is meaningless.


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    #5
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    @Souriau
    The Hauppauge CD that came with your dongle includes a signal meter. AFAIK it is under MISC on the cd.
    Look for HCWSIGMON.exe


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    #6
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Very nice. probably only works Hauppauge cards. But no good for working at height.
    http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_digital_signal_monitor.html
    (download link is dead)

    WinTV version 7 has it built in (very recent version)
    http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_wintv7.html
    Link works http://hauppauge.lightpath.net/software/install_cd/wintv7_cd_2.3a.exe
    You need a Hauppauge CD ($10 to buy) or this will not install
    Almost certainly only works with certain listed Hauppauge cards.


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    #7
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    I got a new sofware for my Hauppage Win TV Tuner
    here is a scan of Cairn Hill

    # 682000kHz, 8MHz bandwidth
    # locked on 682000KHz, please wait for signal statistics...

    # signal locked = Y, present = Y, strength = -64000, quality = 100%
    # signal locked = Y, present = Y, strength = -63000, quality = 100%
    # signal locked = Y, present = Y, strength = -63000, quality = 100%
    # signal locked = Y, present = Y, strength = -63000, quality = 100%
    # signal locked = Y, present = Y, strength = -63000, quality = 100%

    # Average quality on 682000kHz = 100%


    NETWORK INFORMATION
    Network Name: RTENL
    Network ID: 12801
    ONID: 8564
    SID: 1001

    Frequency: 198500Khz
    Bandwidth: 8Mhz
    Modulation: 64QAM
    Carrier: 8K
    FEC HP: 2/3
    FEC LP: 2/3
    Guard: 1/32
    #Alternate frequencies
    #Network_6("RTENL", 177500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 184500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 191500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 198500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 205500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 212500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 219500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 474000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 546000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 666000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 682000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 690000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 730000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 738000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 746000, 8, 1)


    CHANNEL NAME - - - - - - P-TYPE LCN SID PMT TXT AC3 PROVIDER
    RTÉ One - - - - - - - - - - ASDTV , 1, 1101, 1901, Y, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Two - - - - - - - - - - AHDTV , 2, 1102, 1902, Y, N, RTÉNL
    TV3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASDTV , 3, 1103, 1903, Y, N, RTÉNL
    TG4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASDTV , 4, 1104, 1904, Y, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ News Now - - - - - - ASDTV , 5, 1105, 1905, N, N, RTÉNL
    3e - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASDTV , 6, 1106, 1906, Y, N, RTÉNL
    Temporary - - - - - - - - - ASDTV , 7, 1107, 1907, Y, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Radio 1 - - - - - - - - RADIO , 200, 1226, 1921, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ 2FM - - - - - - - - - - RADIO , 202, 1227, 1922, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Lyric FM - - - - - - - - RADIO , 203, 1228, 1923, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta, RADIO , 204, 1229, 1924, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Radio 1 Extra - - - - - RADIO , 201, 1230, 1925, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Pulse - - - - - - - - - - RADIO , 205, 1231, 1926, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ 2XM - - - - - - - - - - - RADIO , 206, 1232, 1927, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Choice - - - - - - - - - RADIO , 207, 1233, 1928, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Gold - - - - - - - - - - - RADIO , 208, 1234, 1929, N, N, RTÉNL
    RTÉ Chill / RTÉ Junior - - - RADIO , 209, 1235, 1930, N, N, RTÉNL

    ===========================================


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    #8
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Hmm
    Frequency: 198500Khz

    #Alternate frequencies
    #Network_6("RTENL", 177500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 184500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 191500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 198500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 205500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 212500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 219500, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 474000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 546000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 666000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 682000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 690000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 730000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 738000, 8, 1)
    #Network_6("RTENL", 746000, 8, 1)


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    #9
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Yes, I was also surprised :eek: to see VHF frequencies on it
    and also was surprised to see Alternate UHF frequencies.

    I must goto my brother's home and do a scan of Clermont Carn, Co Louth transmitter and see

    I also did a scan of Divis, Belfast, and see they also got Alternate frequencies.
    If anyone want to see it, I can paste it here if required :rolleyes:


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    #10
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Should be same info on all Irish transmitters I think.


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    #11
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Here is the full scan from my home outside Newry, getting Divis and Cairn Hill


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    #12
    fat-tony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    Note the 166KHz offset from centre frequency on the NI transmitters. RTENL transmitters on centre frequency.


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    #13
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Can anyone advise to what is the different between the Red and Blue DigiAir digital signal meter?


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    #14
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Souriau wrote: »
    Can anyone advise to what is the different between the Red and Blue DigiAir digital signal meter?

    Digiair (Blue) = analogue terrestrial signals only
    Digiair db (Red) = analogue & digital terrestrial (COFDM) signals


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    #15
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    The Cush wrote: »
    Digiair (Blue) = analogue signal only
    Digiair db (Red) = analogue & digital terrestrial (COFDM) signals
    They are both digital but I will read into it further


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    #16
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Souriau wrote: »
    They are both digital but I will read into it further

    Digital as in DVB-T (CODFM) terrestrial reception. The Digiair Blue doesn't do DVB-T.

    This from the Digiair db manual
    DIGIAIR dB is built for measurement on digital terrestrial (COFDM) signals. All specifications given for the precision of measurement refers to the Digital (COFDM) mode when measuring digital terrestrial signals. The instrument will give a higher value in dBμV when measuring analog terrestrial signals in the Digital (COFDM) mode. When measuring analog terrestrial signals in the Analog (CW) mode the instrument will give a lower value in dBμV than the actual one. However, when measuring on a non amplitude modulated analog signal in the Analog (CW) mode the instrument will give equally accurate values as specified for the COFDM mode measuring on digital terrestrial signals.


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    #17
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    One would think Digiair mean Digital terrestrial transmission
    and of the Blue is just for analouge, would it not call it Anaair?

    Anyway, thanks for helping me to know the different between the Red and Blue model

    Have you or anyone else got experenice in using this Digiair db, Red and how does it perform?


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    #18
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    The Cush wrote: »
    Digiair (Blue) = analogue terrestrial signals only
    Digiair db (Red) = analogue & digital terrestrial (COFDM) signals
    I contacted the company in Sweden to find out more and I received their reply


    They are both suitable for digital and analogue
    The difference is small, but vital.
    Digiair shows a relative value.
    Digiair dB is calibrated and shows an exact dB value.
    Best Regards/Cordialement
    Naima Wanisian
    Sales Departement
    www.emitor.se

     Emitor AB
    Sjöviksbacken 14
    117 43 Stockholm
    Phone : +46 8 7750001
    Fax : +46 8 7750006


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    #19
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    I have decided to go for the Digiair db, the red one
    Can anyone tell me where I can get one at cheapest price online?
    the lowest I can find is £185

    TIA


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    #20
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Souriau wrote: »
    I have decided to go for the Digiair db, the red one
    Can anyone tell me where I can get one at cheapest price online?
    the lowest I can find is £185

    TIA

    Got mine a few years ago from Wizard Satellites (trading now it seems as Wizmaster). They're charging £189 now, can't think of anyone cheaper.


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    #21
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Thanks 'The Cush'
    can you tell me how good is the Digiair db?
    does it help align the aerial perfect?
    what is the pro and con from your usage?

    TIA


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    #22
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Souriau wrote: »
    Thanks 'The Cush'
    can you tell me how good is the Digiair db?
    does it help align the aerial perfect?
    what is the pro and con from your usage?

    I've never used a professional meter so I cannot compare the Digiair against one but it does what it says on the tin for the money.

    I only use it to install aerials for friends, family etc. Once I point the aerial in the general direction I simply adjust until I get peak signal and job done.

    Battery life is one downside, about 1 hr use before a very long recharge time. The menus can be a bit fiddly and the LCD screen can be a little difficult to read on a bright, sunny day.

    Overall I'm happy with it, takes some of the guesswork out of a DIY install.


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    #23
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    The Cush wrote: »
    Got mine a few years ago from Wizard Satellites (trading now it seems as Wizmaster). They're charging £189 now, can't think of anyone cheaper.
    Got the new Digiair db today, am happy with it so far, just exploring and taking some reading of my aerial.
    Bought it from Wizard for £169 over the phone with free P&P while online price showing £189.
    Also came with Euro Schuko 2 pin connector


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    #24
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    what would be acceptable db level for a digital transmission?
    Somewhere I saw the figure of 66db, would that be correct?
    and is there a maximum db level for DTT? As I am sure too much power also break up the picture... Is that correct?

    TIA


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    #25
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Souriau wrote: »
    what would be acceptable db level for a digital transmission?
    Somewhere I saw the figure of 66db, would that be correct?
    and is there a maximum db level for DTT? As I am sure too much power also break up the picture... Is that correct?

    TIA

    DTT Max Signal Level = 70dBμV
    DTT Min Signal Level = 45dBμV

    This according to the DTG - http://www.satmax.co.nz/Technical_Info/dgtspec.pdf
    The 45 dBμV figure applies where the STB or idTV is the first item in the RF distribution chain. (This is the normal arrangement and is strongly recommended) A 5dB higher level is necessary to take into account the typical low gains and high noise figures for any satellite receiver or VCR (either operating or in standby mode) used ahead of the STB or idTV.


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    #26
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    You're asking for it, posting something like that here.....

    Do people pay you to do installs without a meter? How have you managed till now?

    EDIT: This post was in reply to another which has since been deleted.


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    #27
    darth_maul
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭darth_maul


    Ronnie Raygun wrote: »
    You're asking for it, posting something like that here.....

    Do people pay you to do installs without a meter? How have you managed till now?
    Don't think anyone has mentioned professional installs,

    Have a digiair for analogue installs and its fine, pretty useless for Digital installs as it lacks a quality/ber reading, have a promax TV hunter for that and its the dogs............

    Believe me when you have the 2 peaking an aerial with the analogue meter and then putting the promax on you can see that the peak isn't always the best for Quality Ber/Mer, digital meter is essential especially for locating quality drops between aerial and receiver. A perfect analogue signal doesn't mean a glitch free Saorview


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    #28
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    The post I replied to was an inquiry from someone who 'did a few installs' & wanted a meter to 'save time'.
    I see it's since been deleted & I can't even remember the poster's name.


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    #29
    Galway
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Galway


    The Cush wrote: »
    DTT Max Signal Level = 70dBμV
    DTT Min Signal Level = 45dBμV

    This according to the DTG - http://www.satmax.co.nz/Technical_Info/dgtspec.pdf

    Whats the max and min signal levels for analogue?


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    #30
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Galway wrote: »
    Whats the max and min signal levels for analogue?

    17y4jn.png


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    #31
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    I know the OP has bought the DB model.... but there is a pro one that is a little pricier.

    Lacuna (mid price) also do one as do Promax (expensive).


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