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New Irish driving license could become the European ID card by stealth

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  • 28-12-2009 2:37pm
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    If it was announced in Brussels that the EU wide ID card was to be introduced in 2013 there would be uproar from civil Liberties groups just as there has been in the United States over the Real ID card. .

    First of all I do not believe the Government has any choice on this matter as our current license is a joke. It is no longer recognizable by airline carriers, its can be easy to counterfeit and also that it has tendency to turn to pulp. It is only a matter of time that the EU will standardize driving licenses and according to the following Irish times article that deadline is set to be in 2013

    The Irish Government is only trying to get this all in ahead of schedule.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1228/1224261301432.html


    From reading the following report it seems quite convincing that this card could be taken a step further and eventually become the EU National ID card. I have highlighted the main points in bold.

    A NEW credit card-style driving license containing a chip that holds information about the driver is to be introduced over the next year or so, according to Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey. He said the Road Safety Authority was examining how this could be achieved. “There is work ongoing on this, and I am looking at trying, within the next 12 to 18 months, to introduce the plastic credit card-type license with a microchip,” he told The Irish Times.

    The cards will hold a photo; the driver’s name, address, date of birth, class of license, and details of the issuing authority. It will also carry a record of any penalty points on the driver’s record.
    Mr Dempsey suggested the issuing of licenses might be centralized into one licensing authority in a further effort to improve security.

    “If you want to tighten up security, do you maintain the system where licenses are issued by 33 or 34 local authorities around the country or do you move to a system that is centralized and has a very tight control on the cards that are issued and that all of the data is contained in one place?

    “I strongly believe we need to introduce the card and streamline the system to make it more secure,” he said. The changes are part of a European project to introduce a credit card-style driving license by the start of 2013 to assist cross-border policing of motoring offenses. These will be mutually recognized by member states.Mr Dempsey said he wants to introduce the system “well before that deadline”.

    The new cards will have the capacity to carry a thumbprint or an eyeprint if the EU decides to introduce biometric security features, Mr Dempsey added. The Republic and Northern Ireland aim to mutually recognize driving disqualifications for reckless or dangerous driving, hit-and-runs, drink-driving and speeding from early next year.

    Ministers in both jurisdictions are also working on a way to apply penalty points to holders of a license issued outside the country where the offense took place, although this is a longer-term project. Mr Dempsey also said he would look at incorporating the new licenses with a social welfare card where appropriate. “I am also interested in whether or not we can include information about whether people want to be organ donors, although there are complications with that,” he said


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Comments

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    #2
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    What no Nazi propaganda picture to accompany your topic this time?


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    #3
    thecommander
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    PirateShampoo wrote: »
    What no Nazi propaganda picture to accompany your topic this time?

    or :eek:'s


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    #4
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    PirateShampoo wrote: »
    What no Nazi propaganda picture to accompany your topic this time?

    Naw, decided to leave it out in the OP.

    This is a good one if you want it. :)

    20tmrk2.jpg


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    #5
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #6
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »


    The cards will hold a photo; the driver’s name, address, date of birth, class of license, and details of the issuing authority.

    The cards will have your date of birth on it and if you are 40 or over you may get sent to a concentration camp as part of the programme to combat 'cliamate change ' . :eek:


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    #7
    thecommander
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    So its the same as what we have already, except its a card, and harder to counterfeit. OOoooOOOooo scary.


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    #8
    EvilMonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭EvilMonkey


    A driving licence that contains all the information that's on the current one but fits in your wallet, yes please. :eek:


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    #9
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,454 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    espinolman wrote: »
    The cards will have your date of birth on it and if you are 40 or over you may get sent to a concentration camp as part of the programme to combat 'cliamate change ' . :eek:

    Say what?


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    #10
    mmmmmmm.......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭mmmmmmm.......


    delighted if this comes in.the current licence is way to easy to forge and falls apart so easy.i remember i showed my drivers licence in a few clubs and pubs in australia and they simply laughed and said it couldnt be real!


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    #11
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So what's the problem with this?

    Does it infringe on your right to go to other countries and commit traffic offences without penalty or something?


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    #12
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    mmmmmmm....... wrote: »
    delighted if this comes in.the current license is way to easy to forge and falls apart so easy.i remember i showed my drivers license in a few clubs and pubs in Australia and they simply laughed and said it couldn't be real!
    I agree but as I mentioned in previous threads RFID can be targeted from several feet away so they are not entirely foolproof.
    EvilMonkey wrote: »
    A driving license that contains all the information that's on the current one but fits in your wallet, yes please. :eek:
    Smart card have the ability to gain access to a lot more data than what we currently have on our paper license such as medical, social welfare, police records etc. and what else they wish to retain on your records.
    thecommander wrote: »
    So its the same as what we have already, except its a card, and harder to counterfeit. OOoooOOOooo scary.
    Difference with thses and conventional cards is that these leave a digital streak everytime they are swiped with a scanner. EG you show a conventional license to a cop, more than likely he will just look at it and move you on. You produce a Smart Cart to a cop he will swipe it into the system. Your position is now logged on the database and will continually be updated each and every time the card is used.
    espinolman wrote: »
    The cards will have your date of birth on it and if you are 40 or over you may get sent to a concentration camp as part of the programme to combat 'climate change ' . :eek:
    Yes there is a foreseeable use for these cards to combat 'climate change', they are fully programmable and could be used to tot up your carbon credits every time you fill up your tank or board an aircraft with your identity card.

    And speaking of Concentration camps since you brought up the subject, if they wanted to round you up it would be quite simple matter. Just trace your digital prints and nab you at one of the many portals. :eek:


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    #13
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Yes there is a foreseeable use for these cards to combat 'climate change', they are fully programmable and could be used to tot up your carbon credits every time you fill up your tank or board an aircraft with your card. :eek:
    There's a bit of a difference between that and rounding up people over 40 into a concentration camp.
    But hey it's about as supported as the rest of the stuff you've posted.

    And again you fail to actually explain why this technology is bad.


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    #14
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    King Mob wrote: »
    And again you fail to actually explain why this technology is bad.
    It has been explained to you enough about invasive technology.


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    #15
    IrishKnight
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭IrishKnight


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I agree but as I mentioned in previous threads RFID can be targetedfrom several feet away so they are not entirely foolproof.

    rfid blocking wallet

    You can also get ones for your passport, or even make them at home...


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    #16
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It has been explained to you enough about invasive technology.

    Why? Do you have to be anally probed to apply for one of these cards?

    natl-id-card.jpg


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    #17
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It has been explained to you enough about invasive technology.

    Not really.
    You fail every single time to show a single person being wrongfully arrested because of thee technologies.

    And this particular one has no more information than you already have on you drivers licence.

    So what's the problem with this one?
    What's your issue with being libel for traffic offences in other countries?


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    #18
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    King Mob wrote: »
    Not really.
    You fail every single time to show a single person being wrongfully arrested because of thee technologies.
    Do you honestly think the authorities are going to start arresting people left right and center on a track & trace system that is only in its infancy?

    I honestly don't think so as people would not want it. Already explained in another post. :rolleyes:
    King Mob wrote: »
    And this particular one has no more information than you already have on you drivers license
    I gather you don't have a drivers license or ever saw one. Mine certainly has very little of what these have to offer.
    King Mob wrote: »
    So what's the problem with this one?
    What's your issue with being libel for traffic offenses in other countries
    OFF TOPIC, the subject is on the possible stealth introduction of the microchipped EU Identity card through the new Ieish driving license.

    There is a thread in the Communications and Transport form discussing the new license.


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    #19
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Do you honestly think the authorities are going to start arresting people left right and center on a track & trace system that is in its infancy?
    So then no you cannot provide a single example.
    You may as well be claiming the same stuff espanoilman is.
    There is as much evidence.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I gather you don't have a drivers license or ever saw one. Mine certainly has very little of what these have to offer.
    So what's on this one that's not on the normal one then?
    Name? Address? Class of vehicle you're licensed to drive? Date of birth? Eyesight?
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    OFF TOPIC, the subject is on the possible stealth introduction of the microchipped EU Identity card through the new Ieish driving license.
    So then maybe instead of posting links to completely irrelevant articles maybe you can actually address some of the points we're bringing up?


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    #20
    litmus paper
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭litmus paper


    these credit card style driving licenses are available in pakistan and india and in many other asian countries since last 5 years or even more. why not in ireland? its about time we get them. carrying these piece of paper is a nuisance. :cool:


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    #21
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    litmus paper wrote: »
    these credit card style driving licenses are available in pakistan and india and in many other asian countries since last 5 years or even more. why not in ireland? its about time we get them. carrying these piece of paper is a nuisance. :cool:

    I have had my australian one for 13 years now. Its not new.


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    #22
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Jumpy wrote: »
    I have had my australian one for 13 years now. Its not new.
    I had a Westrern Australian licence where i did the test when I returned I had to exchange it for a crappy Irish one. :mad:

    I must have gone through about 10 of these in the last 15 years. Riding a motorbike in the rain dosent help.


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    #23
    thecommander
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I must have gone through about 10 of these in the last 15 years. Riding a motorbike in the rain dosent help.

    So you can see the benefit of having a plastic card then I take it.


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    #24
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    thecommander wrote: »
    So you can see the benefit of having a plastic card then I take it.
    With out the chip. :)


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    #25
    thecommander
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    With out the chip. :)

    So you're all for a plastic European ID/driving license card, once it doesn't have a chip in it?


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    #26
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Do you honestly think the authorities are going to start arresting people left right and center on a track & trace system that is only in its infancy?

    I honestly don't think so as people would not want it. Already explained in another post. :rolleyes:

    Well you have claimed before they would on other issues.The changes to the criminal justice stuff that came in durign the year to combat people and gangs were supposed to have us all rounded up in pens being processed into big factories for rendering according to you, but you went very quiet on the issue soon after and I'm still free to roam the streets.


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    #27
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    thecommander wrote: »
    So you're all for a plastic European ID/driving license card, once it doesn't have a chip in it?

    Precisely but theres not a hope of it happening as this format is now becoming the standard right across the globe just like the embedded passport introduced in 2006.

    In New York you have the option of having a driving license double as a "lite" form of passport although it cannot be used for air travel yet.

    These driving licenses also use the 13.56MHZ passive chip which is common in all passports so I couldn't see a problem having them as ID as the hardware would be compatible.


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    #28
    tudlytops
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭tudlytops


    I don't see the problem with ID cards.

    I'm Portuguese have held an ID card since I was 10, it has information about my hight, colour of hair, colour of my eyes, my finger prints, etc.

    In my opinion only people with something to hide mind these.

    It makes life so much simpler, all you need is this card and that is it, here you have driving licences, passports, age cards, student cards, it's never ending.


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    #29
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    tudlytops wrote: »
    I don't see the problem with ID cards.

    I'm Portuguese have held an ID card since I was 10, it has information about my hight, colour of hair, colour of my eyes, my finger prints, etc.

    In my opinion only people with something to hide mind these.

    It makes life so much simpler, all you need is this card and that is it, here you have driving licenses, passports, age cards, student cards, it's never ending.
    The difference is that You didn't have embedded ID when you were 10. Conventional ID's do not leave "digital records" every time they are tagged.

    The more departments that have interest in these "multipurpose" smartcards the more your personal information, medical history police records etc is at stake of being leaked or hacked to the wrong hands. RFID can be hacked at a distant from inside your wallet or pocket.
    Stekelly wrote: »
    Well you have claimed before they would on other issues.The changes to the criminal justice stuff that came in during the year to combat people and gangs were supposed to have us all rounded up in pens being processed into big factories for rendering according to you, but you went very quiet on the issue soon after and I'm still free to roam the streets.
    Its like the "frog in a boiling water" story, when legislation slowly accumulates over the years you don't seem to notice it that much until its too late. Next thing you realise that you are living in a police state. The UK is rapidly going down that road.


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    #30
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,227 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    What is it exactly that you did RTDH??

    If it really was that bad they would have caught you by now!


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    #31
    tudlytops
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭tudlytops


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The difference is that You didn't have embedded ID when you were 10. Conventional ID's do not leave "digital records" every time they are examined.

    The more departments that have interest in these "multipurpose" smartcards the more your personal information, medical history police records etc is at stake of being exposed to the wrong hands and possibly leaked or hacked into.

    No but our card is renewed first every 5 years then later every 10 years, they are now made through PC with digital finger prints, etc.

    That information is already out there and in used by many departments, its in every PC of every office, shop, Guarda station, bank, etc that you have dealt with, as it is it's almost impossible to keep it save, so i can't see how would ID cards make it any worse.

    but I can see how they would simplify things and stop diferent places only accepting this kind of ID and another only takes this kind, etc.


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