Longford Cathedral on fire

sineadgalway · 25-12-2009 10:01am #1

Just got up this morning to look out the window and see flames and smoke from the cathedral....apparently started at 5am....roof gone...

Keen2win · 25-12-2009 10:08am

Was just about to post this... Sounds AWFUL!:( It's nearly unbelievable

sineadgalway · 25-12-2009 10:17am

will wander up shortly to take a photo...have to open my pressies first!!

ianwalsh2 · 25-12-2009 11:26am

Sad stuff.

kerash · 25-12-2009 11:27am

oh no, that's awful

It was a beautiful cathedral
longford.html

L'prof · 25-12-2009 11:29am

Pics from RTE

ianwalsh2 · 25-12-2009 12:36pm

Rumour has it the boiler exploded and started the fire. The water pipes were frozen so the fire brigade couldnt put it out and then obviously it spread out of control.

Run_to_da_hills · 25-12-2009 1:16pm

I hope that it is well covered by insurance and can be restored to its full again.

silver campaign · 25-12-2009 1:22pm

Thats a real killer. The only thing this town had to be proud of is gone. There was a great museum in there aswell, presumably thats gone too.

gingernut79 · 25-12-2009 2:01pm

Longford Leader have posted photos on their site. Looks terrible.

baldbear · 25-12-2009 4:33pm

Terrible day for Longford. A beautiful iconic building destroyed hopefully this will be rebuilt just as it was.

garfieldsghost · 25-12-2009 4:54pm

I'm not really a religious person at all but I was devestated when I heard what happened. It's amazing just how central the cathedral is to the local community - it's where many of us were christened, received first holy communion and confirmation, had weddings and have said goodbye to loved ones at funerals. It's hard to imagine Longford without it.

The first time I'd been in the cathedral all year was just lastnight when I went to midnight mass with my parents. Walking through its doors you'd never fail to be amazed by the interior; the stained glass windows, the choir gallery and organ, the paintings and the sculptures (since I was a child I'd always been fascinated by the statue of St. Michael battling a serpant with a spear) and, of course, that magnificent ceiling. And then there was the museum with it's small but priceless collection of artefacts and relics - the most important of which was undoubtedly the crozier of St. Mel himself. Hopefully somewhere inside there are some remnants that can be saved.

I went into town this morning to witness the scene for myself and it was an eerie sight to behold... crowds of people staring silently at the smoke pouring out from the roof and glimpses of fires still burning inside. It looked like the fire brigade were concentrating their efforts on the area around the front entrance, probably in a bid to save the spire which is the most iconic part of the building's exterior. I was fighting back tears...

silver campaign · 25-12-2009 6:14pm

Like yourself, I wouldn't consider myself to be particularly religious. But it's strange the influence a building like this has on the community. You take it for granted and it's only when a tragedy like this happens, you realise how central the place is in your life.

Im sure it will be restored eventually, but it certainly will never be the same, I can't see how it could be possible to restore it to its former glory.

I wish the best of luck to the bishop, priests and everyone else involved in sorting out this mess.

EDIT: Maybe Mel 'Colmcille' Gibson could throw us a few quid. He was named after the cathedral after all.

Johnny Giles · 25-12-2009 8:13pm

How did this happen. Was it arson?

I was thinking it was in relation to the sexual molestation of children by priests. Serves the church right but I feel sorry for the locals. Hope the building will be looking well again soon.

garfieldsghost · 25-12-2009 8:22pm

Johnny Giles wrote: »

How did this happen. Was it arson?

I was thinking it was in relation to the sexual molestation of children by priests. Serves the church right but I feel sorry for the locals. Hope the building will be looking well again soon.

Somehow I doubt it was arson. Anyways, I don't see how burning down a building so important to the people of Longford could be regarded as retribution for those allegations. And as far as I know, Bishop O'Reilly hasn't been caught up in any of crossfire in those cases...

Johnny Giles · 25-12-2009 8:28pm

garfieldsghost wrote: »

I don't see how burning down a building so important to the people of Longford could be regarded as retribution for those allegations.

Yes. It'll hit them hard though. That Bishop was pretty emotional about it all really. It might be a word of warning to all the abusers in the church.

garfieldsghost · 25-12-2009 8:31pm

Johnny Giles wrote: »

Yes. It'll hit them hard though. That Bishop was pretty emotional about it all really. It might be a word of warning to all the abusers in the church.

Great, just what we need... a conspiracy theorist :rolleyes:

Johnny Giles · 25-12-2009 8:34pm

garfieldsghost wrote: »

Great, just what we need... a conspiracy theorist :rolleyes:

I'm not in my comfort zone really. Can't wait to get back to Bill and Eamon.

lumpynomore · 25-12-2009 9:00pm

Was devestated to hear about this, St.Mel's was a beautiful cathedral, the decor was breathtaking and for those of us that were reared in Longford it's irreplaceable. It's heartbreaking my kids will not get to see this magnificant building, last time I was home was for my nan's funeral in 2004 and my eldest was to young to remember. And poor Bishop O'Reilly on the news, so sad.

Benincasa · 25-12-2009 9:13pm

Johnny Giles wrote: »

How did this happen. Was it arson?

I was thinking it was in relation to the sexual molestation of children by priests. Serves the church right but I feel sorry for the locals. Hope the building will be looking well again soon.

Really? It "serves the Church right"?

If relatives of yours committed crimes, and other relatives covered up those crimes, would it justify someone burning your house down in retribution? Would you think that seeing your house reduced to ashes woulde serve your family right?

Personally I don't think it was a case of arson, but we'll have to wait and see what the authorities say. But let's be clear - the dreadful abuses do not justify the burning of churches.

Johnny Giles · 25-12-2009 9:17pm

How can anyone think it is acceptable that priests covered up abuse of children. They were being raped by crucifixes etc. Unbelievable.

The crowd should be taken out and shot. (The ones covering for them. Not all of them.)

baldbear · 25-12-2009 9:28pm

This thread is about the cathedral fire i thought and not about abuse.

Johnny Giles · 25-12-2009 10:25pm

baldbear wrote: »

This thread is about the cathedral fire i thought and not about abuse.

Benincasa · 26-12-2009 12:42am

baldbear wrote: »

This thread is about the cathedral fire i thought and not about abuse.

Yes, I agree, the thread is meant to be about the fire in the cathedral. But Johnny Giles introduced the abuse theme by saying that the fire serves the church right, thus implicitly endorsing any arson that might have been involved. My view is that this is very dangerous talk.

Benincasa · 26-12-2009 12:46am

Johnny Giles wrote: »

How can anyone think it is acceptable that priests covered up abuse of children. They were being raped by crucifixes etc. Unbelievable.

The crowd should be taken out and shot. (The ones covering for them. Not all of them.)

Who says that it is acceptable that priests covered up the abuse of children? Sorry, I just do not see where you are going with this? I don't know anybody who thinks that this behaviour was acceptable.

As for taking them out and shooting them, I hope you are just using a figure of speech, and don't mean that literally. We have due process for a reason, and part of our legal system is that the death penalty is no longer constitutionally permissible.

This kind of loose talk is dangerous; it only takes one nutter to start implementing it...

ballsymchugh · 26-12-2009 4:44am

I was there last night at Midnight Mass, and it was breathtaking as it is every year. the choir are just perfect for the building. i was looking up at it earlier today biting my lip holding back the tears. but tonight it's lit up as usual, and in a few years it'll be restored, and i personally can't wait for that day.

by the way, was talking to a fireman manning the pump near the river, he was telling us about someone nicking a light that was there to warn cars about the pipes crossing the road. seems like there's always scum active, no matter what the weather, day or situation is like.

Graces7 · 26-12-2009 8:55am

It is sad; but please God they do not even think of rebuilding in these hard times. It is just a building, and so many now are struggling just to keep a roof over their heads.

There have been so many "appeals" for public funding for renovations and crazy things like African river stone floors in Churches this year. Priests going round knocking on doors etc.

There are too many Churches now.

And Rome has enough in its coffers, as do the religious orders here in Ireland, to rebuild without asking a cent from the people.

The Church is still the biggest and richest landowner in Ireland

We need to think less of buildings and more of people; as Jesus did.

The glory of God not bricks and mortar, but a land and a world where no one goes cold or hungry.. and in every Irish city there are homeless now.

Otis Driftwood · 26-12-2009 2:11pm

Graces7 wrote: »

It is sad; but please God they do not even think of rebuilding in these hard times. It is just a building, and so many now are struggling just to keep a roof over their heads.

There have been so many "appeals" for public funding for renovations and crazy things like African river stone floors in Churches this year. Priests going round knocking on doors etc.

There are too many Churches now.

And Rome has enough in its coffers, as do the religious orders here in Ireland, to rebuild without asking a cent from the people.

The Church is still the biggest and richest landowner in Ireland

We need to think less of buildings and more of people; as Jesus did.

The glory of God not bricks and mortar, but a land and a world where no one goes cold or hungry.. and in every Irish city there are homeless now.

You forgot this.

:rolleyes:

The fact is,I like many,many other people from Longford and beyond would/will have absolutely no problem in donating money to assist with the rebuilding of the Cathedral.

Kindly take your sanctimonious bullshit somewhere else.

jocmilt · 26-12-2009 3:33pm

I always thought the Cathedral in Longford was a grotesque building with it's Corinthian Columns and arrogant idols towering over the little people who walk beneath it. If there could be an architectural expression of the pompous domination of a corrupt church then this monstrosity it is. While Irish people were dying becaue of a genocidal famine these parasites, who were give food by the British, sucked the blood off the Irish people to build this! Not one priest died of hunger while this was being built out of the stench of rotting potatoes. The hammer blows resonating with the hooves of the British cavalry on their way to evict penniless peasants. We starved, they built a fine 'Cathedral'!

To this day some Russias yearn for Stalin. Maybe it is a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. It's not surprising simple people have cathected with such symbols of their oppression but obviously God has decided to burn it down. Maybe at last he is saying, "enough of your evil!"

While I hear many say how sad they are to see this building burn I can honestly say I am over the moon about it. It is a gift to all those who were trodden on by this heinous church; both by the clergy and the foolish lackeys who stood by them, taking up collections and reporting of 'heratics'.

I am reminded of the stories of the emancipation of slaves in the the US when the a few lost souls stood around the ole plantations, not wanting to avail of their freedom but instead wanted to continue serving 'Masser'.

Otis Driftwood · 26-12-2009 3:39pm

Ha ha ha ha ha,Jesus,at least some trolls have the brains to not be so obvious,you are just a loser that is trying to be controversial.

People like you give trolls a bad name.

:D:D

diamondtooth · 26-12-2009 3:42pm

nedtheshed wrote: »

Kindly take your sanctimonious bullshit somewhere else.

Who gives you the authority to speak to people like this :rolleyes:. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The fire is sad news though. I hope it was not arson because this fire will not make up for all the abuse this organisation has caused.

Johnny Giles · 26-12-2009 3:43pm

nedtheshed wrote: »

Ha ha ha ha ha,Jesus,at least some trolls have the brains to not be so obvious,you are just a loser that is trying to be controversial.

People like you give trolls a bad name.

:D:D

Is this thread just for people who love the building.

Cop on.

Otis Driftwood · 26-12-2009 3:51pm

diamondtooth wrote: »

Who gives you the authority to speak to people like this :rolleyes:.

Everything that person wrote was sanctimonious so ya,its bullshit.There are lots of forums that they can debate the catholic church and their perceived evils,this isnt one of them.

Johnny Giles wrote: »

Is this thread just for people who love the building.

Cop on.

Its not a thread for shit stirrers which is what has happened.Its similar to celebrity death threads in AH,a little bit of respect and civility isnt too much to ask.
The fact is the catherdal was a huge part of Longfords history and the residents of the toen and county so there is no need whatsoever for the politiking and rhetoric that has been posted.

philologos · 26-12-2009 4:14pm

It is an absolute shame that a building that served a community so well should have been in flames like this. My sympathies are with these people for whom this cathedral marked important points in their lives.

It is the people in this community who it hits the hardest. Is this something to be praised?

garfieldsghost · 26-12-2009 7:02pm

Johnny Giles wrote: »

Is this thread just for people who love the building.

Cop on.

No, it's a thread about the fire that's destroyed the building. But bearing that in mind, it's also not the place to start sniping at the church over the abuse cases... if you want to do that, cop on and go to the relevant thread in the relevant section of the site.

truthisfree · 26-12-2009 7:07pm

jocmilt wrote: »

I always thought the Cathedral in Longford was a grotesque building with it's Corinthian Columns and arrogant idols towering over the little people who walk beneath it. If there could be an architectural expression of the pompous domination of a corrupt church then this monstrosity it is. While Irish people were dying becaue of a genocidal famine these parasites, who were give food by the British, sucked the blood off the Irish people to build this! Not one priest died of hunger while this was being built out of the stench of rotting potatoes. The hammer blows resonating with the hooves of the British cavalry on their way to evict penniless peasants. We starved, they built a fine 'Cathedral'!

To this day some Russias yearn for Stalin. Maybe it is a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. It's not surprising simple people have cathected with such symbols of their oppression but obviously God has decided to burn it down. Maybe at last he is saying, "enough of your evil!"

While I hear many say how sad they are to see this building burn I can honestly say I am over the moon about it. It is a gift to all those who were trodden on by this heinous church; both by the clergy and the foolish lackeys who stood by them, taking up collections and reporting of 'heratics'.

I am reminded of the stories of the emancipation of slaves in the the US when the a few lost souls stood around the ole plantations, not wanting to avail of their freedom but instead wanted to continue serving 'Masser'.

I visited this Church (It is my diocese) some weeks back after reading the Ryan report and I was really disgusted by the appalling amount of money spent on this building before and after the famine. One hand it was the finest building in Longford, on the other it was a mediocre/ugly building designed by an architect of zero reputation. The Harry Clarke windows were the worst I have ever seen, they came from the Harry Clarke studio but whether Clarke ever touched them or not is very debatable.

You have summed up my sentiments on this incident exactly, we have a long long way to go as a nation.

truthisfree · 26-12-2009 7:11pm

garfieldsghost wrote: »

No, it's a thread about the fire that's destroyed the building. But bearing that in mind, it's also not the place to start sniping at the church over the abuse cases... if you want to do that, cop on and go to the relevant thread in the relevant section of the site.

Seeing as there is a Gardi investigation to discover witnesses ongoing at the moment it is not only people on here who are speculating but the authorities as well.

It is absolutely natural that in the time we live in that people will and are very much speculating on whether this was arson commited by a person who suffered the horrific abuse that was meted out by the clergy in this country to thousands of children.

Johnny Giles · 26-12-2009 7:12pm

truthisfree wrote: »

Seeing as there is a Gardi investigation to discover witnesses ongoing at the moment it is not only people on here who are speculating but the authorities as well.

It is absolutely natural that in the time we live in that people will and are very much speculating on whether this was arson commited by a person who suffered the horrific abuse that was meted out by the clergy in this country to thousands of children.

Dat's right.

lumpynomore · 26-12-2009 7:18pm

Have to say I'm extremly disappointed to see the route this thread has gone down, between debating the abuse cases (I'm sure there are relevant threads/sections for this subject to be discussed at length?) and famine (the period of time the cathedral was constructed)/ homelessness. I may not be long on this site but my impression of the OP's post was to highlight the fire and for the people of Longford and those of us no longer in the county to express our loss and sympathy. Perhaps I'm wrong?

I was christened in the cathedral by Colm O' Reilly the now bishop when he was a pp, I have very special memories of the cathedral, not least the last mass I attended in it when my beloved grandmother was brought home to be laid to rest. I find a lot of the posts deeply offensive and am of the mind if you can't say something nice, don't post. I fail to see what gratification some of the posters get from their opinions apart from stirring, when there's really no need for it.

And I for one, should the cathedral be restored will be donating as much as I can afford and will be extremly proud to do so.

garfieldsghost · 26-12-2009 7:29pm

truthisfree wrote: »

Seeing as there is a Gardi investigation to discover witnesses ongoing at the moment it is not only people on here who are speculating but the authorities as well.

It's called routine. It's the Gardaí's job to investigate all possibilities and discover the cause by process of elimination. To suggest that they already suspect arson when the investigation hasn't even properly begun is ridiculous.

echoindi · 26-12-2009 7:30pm

lumpynomore wrote: »

Have to say I'm extremly disappointed to see the route this thread has gone down, between debating the abuse cases (I'm sure there are relevant threads/sections for this subject to be discussed at length?) and famine (the period of time the cathedral was constructed)/ homelessness. I may not be long on this site but my impression of the OP's post was to highlight the fire and for the people of Longford and those of us no longer in the county to express our loss and sympathy. Perhaps I'm wrong?

I was christened in the cathedral by Colm O' Reilly the now bishop when he was a pp, I have very special memories of the cathedral, not least the last mass I attended in it when my beloved grandmother was brought home to be laid to rest. I find a lot of the posts deeply offensive and am of the mind if you can't say something nice, don't post. I fail to see what gratification some of the posters get from their opinions apart from stirring, when there's really no need for it.

And I for one, should the cathedral be restored will be donating as much as I can afford and will be extremly proud to do so.

I also am very proud to say I will give generously to restoring this beautiful building.

truthisfree · 26-12-2009 9:14pm

garfieldsghost wrote: »

It's called routine. It's the Gardaí's job to investigate all possibilities and discover the cause by process of elimination. To suggest that they already suspect arson when the investigation hasn't even properly begun is ridiculous.

The Investigation began yesterday morning. All forensic investigations are done as quickly as possible to decide the factors that caused it. The reason there are Detectives questioning people is that the authorities are thinking just what a lot of people are thinking. What on earth could be ridiculous about that?

The firemen and investigators know where this fire started, the question is how did it start. It is only ridiculous when you look at the odds on it. I have spoken to a whole lot of people and there is a seizable majority that are very suspicious of the causes. That does not mean that they are right in any way, but it neither means that they are ridiculous either given the times we live in.

garfieldsghost · 26-12-2009 10:09pm

truthisfree wrote: »

The Investigation began yesterday morning (1). All forensic investigations are done as quickly as possible to decide the factors that caused it. The reason there are Detectives questioning people is that the authorities are thinking just what a lot of people are thinking (2). What on earth could be ridiculous about that?

The firemen and investigators know where this fire started, the question is how did it start. It is only ridiculous when you look at the odds on it. I have spoken to a whole lot of people and there is a seizable majority that are very suspicious of the causes (3). That does not mean that they are right in any way, but it neither means that they are ridiculous either given the times we live in.

1. I said the investigation hasn't properly begun yet, and it hasn't. Investigators haven't entered the building yet because it still hasn't been assessed by structural engineers. The firemen have probably located the point where the fire started but to define its cause will require detailed forensic examination.

2. After any fire - regardless of how it was started - the Gardaí question neighbours and witnesses to cover all angles. Just because they're doing it in this instance doesn't back up your theory.

3. Some people love nothing more than theorising and feeding off rumours in the wake of such incidents. Just because people are talking about what they think happened is not proof in any way. It's nothing more than hearsay and in the long run such rumour mills can needlessly prolong the work of the authorities.

lt_cmdr_worf · 26-12-2009 10:21pm

Very sad for all, and on Christmas Day on all days.

And especially for all those who worked on the cathedral preparing it for the Christmas masses - in our side (Knockcroghery, Roscommon), the preparations, decorations, choir etc took three days to complete, and that was for a small village church. The preps for a town cathedral would take longer. So think of those people as well.

truthisfree · 26-12-2009 10:41pm

garfieldsghost wrote: »

1. I said the investigation hasn't properly begun yet, and it hasn't. Investigators haven't entered the building yet because it still hasn't been assessed by structural engineers. The firemen have probably located the point where the fire started but to define its cause will require detailed forensic examination.

2. After any fire - regardless of how it was started - the Gardaí question neighbours and witnesses to cover all angles. Just because they're doing it in this instance doesn't back up your theory.

3. Some people love nothing more than theorising and feeding off rumours in the wake of such incidents. Just because people are talking about what they think happened is not proof in any way. It's nothing more than hearsay and in the long run such rumour mills can needlessly prolong the work of the authorities.

1. I don't have any theories, I am talking to people in Longford and feeding back their reaction and what the majority of people there think.

2. It does not negate it either.

3. That is peoples nature, to try and figure out what happened, do you think that this fire comes under a diferrent catogery than Albert Reyonald factory that burned down recently?

Google "St, Mel's Cathedral, Longford, arson" and you will end up on forums and blogs from the Usa to the UK that are discussing just that. I have not found you yet but am sure you're are in there somewhere.

garfieldsghost · 26-12-2009 10:46pm

truthisfree wrote: »

1. I don't have any theories, I am talking to people in Longford and feeding back their reaction and what the majority of people there think.

2. It does not negate it either.

3. That is peoples nature, to try and figure out what happened, do you think that this fire comes under a diferrent catogery than Albert Reyonald factory that burned down recently?

Google "St, Mel's Cathedral, Longford, arson" and you will end up on forums and blogs from the Usa to the UK that are discussing just that. I have not found you yet but am sure you're are in there somewhere.

You won't find my on any of those forums because I don't post on any of them. I live in Longford and have yet to hear anyone express the views you say you've heard from people lhere.

philologos · 26-12-2009 10:52pm

Indeed truthisfree, and so far the discussion on boards.ie has been a lot tamer than that on politics.ie. I've also seen that you have commented on the Daily Telegraph's article on the issue.

Whether or not child abuse happened in the Roman Catholic Church is irrelevant, it doesn't make this loss any better.

truthisfree · 26-12-2009 11:05pm

Jakkass wrote: »

Indeed truthisfree, and so far the discussion on boards.ie has been a lot tamer than that on politics.ie.

Whether or not child abuse happened in the Roman Catholic Church is irrelevant, it doesn't make this loss any better.

It is only bricks and mortar after all, interesting the reactions though. I keep thinking about another Xmas when a house fire took the lives of two kids, kinda brings things into perspective.

There seems to be way more acceptance that it was arson on the boards and blogs in the UK and US though, how come?

philologos · 26-12-2009 11:09pm

truthisfree wrote: »

It is only bricks and mortar after all, interesting the reactions though. I keep thinking about another Xmas when a house fire took the lives of two kids, kinda brings things into perspective.

There seems to be way more acceptance that it was arson on the boards and blogs in the UK and US though, how come?

Only bricks and mortar to you. It means a lot more to the Roman Catholic community there. I personally am of a different denomination, but it doesn't make me regard it as being any less of a devastation for these people, and certainly not to be something lumped together with child abuse. This style of argument also features in your comments on the Telegraph's site:

As far as I know the crozier was the only valuable artefact in the museum which was closed to the public. It has been well documented and photographed by now..... The Crozier was a minor artefact, who it belonged to no one knows or ever will.

As for acceptance, the most acceptance there has been in the original text of the Daily Telegraph's article is a speculation. I'm far more interested in waiting to see what the Gardaí can come up with.

garfieldsghost · 26-12-2009 11:15pm

truthisfree wrote: »

There seems to be way more acceptance that it was arson on the boards and blogs in the UK and US though, how come?

That's not called acceptance, that's called jumping to conclusions.

truthisfree · 26-12-2009 11:26pm

garfieldsghost wrote: »

That's not called acceptance, that's called jumping to conclusions.

Maybe, or realism, the systematic abuse that happened in this country is one of the greatest sins the church has commited here. Anyone who thinks that this level of abuse can exist in a society without having an adverse effect on that society is deluding themselves.

We have no idea what this abuse can do to a persons mind and what it can drive them to. one in four, think about it, I was not one of them and I hope you were not either but we have all met one, think of that guy you used to know that always got drink and wasted his life being angry and aggressive with everyone. Look at the junkies on the streets. Look at the criminal element in irish society, not too hard to join the dots.

Do you not think that we have to face up to this and deal with it, now.

Longford Cathedral on fire

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