Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Thomas Cook Industrial Dispute

Options
  • 04-08-2009 3:57pm
    #1
    Bren1609
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭


    Does anyone know what the workers demand are? i understand that they have turned down 5 pay weeks pay for each year of service but I havent heard what their demans are...


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Bren1609 wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the workers demand are? i understand that they have turned down 5 pay weeks pay for each year of service but I havent heard what their demans are...

    I think they want 8weeks of pay


  • Options
    #3
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    It's not quite clear what TC offered as they tried to turf everyone out unexpectedly. I heard that whatever redundancy they would receive was conditional on a "gag order". Not sure what that means exactly.


  • Options
    #4
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    btw they were left off the court without any penalty! what a joke! no matter how sympathetic one can be to their plight, they broke the law!!!


  • Options
    #5
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Mario007 wrote: »
    btw they were left off the court without any penalty! what a joke! no matter how sympathetic one can be to their plight, they broke the law!!!

    They were in contempt of court.They purged that contempt. It was hardly crime of the century now was it


  • Options
    #6
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    They were in contempt of court.They purged that contempt. It was hardly crime of the century now was it

    of course it wasnt, but they broke the law and they should be made responsible for it. thats how the law works...it is very funny to hear the judge saying the law needs to be obliged to and then letting them off without any sort of penalty...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    mike kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    it was a CIVIL case, not a criminal one. Also, laws are broken all the time, just look at the planning laws. People who illegally demolish buildings never end up in court. This should never have gone to court in the first place. The guards should have evicted them and left it at that. Just more easy money for the judiciary.


  • Options
    #8
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    mike kelly wrote: »
    it was a CIVIL case, not a criminal one. Also, laws are broken all the time, just look at the planning laws. People who illegally demolish buildings never end up in court. This should never have gone to court in the first place. The guards should have evicted them and left it at that. Just more easy money for the judiciary.

    even if it was a civil case, they still need to be punished for neglecting the law. the law is there to prevent anarchy and must be fully implemented. right now the impression is that you can break the law but as long as you get enough people to protest for your case you'll get away with it. these people deliberately refused to listen to the high court decission which is legaly binding and they should be punished for that.


  • Options
    #9
    dodzy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,927 ✭✭✭dodzy


    Mario007 wrote: »
    of course it wasnt, but they broke the law and they should be made responsible for it. thats how the law works...it is very funny to hear the judge saying the law needs to be obliged to and then letting them off without any sort of penalty...

    And your reccomendation for punishment would be what exactly ?:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #10
    mike kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    Mario007 wrote: »
    of course it wasnt, but they broke the law and they should be made responsible for it. thats how the law works...it is very funny to hear the judge saying the law needs to be obliged to and then letting them off without any sort of penalty...

    You have a lot to learn about how the law works in Ireland.


  • Options
    #11
    mike kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    Mario007 wrote: »
    even if it was a civil case, they still need to be punished for neglecting the law. the law is there to prevent anarchy and must be fully implemented. right now the impression is that you can break the law but as long as you get enough people to protest for your case you'll get away with it. these people deliberately refused to listen to the high court decission which is legaly binding and they should be punished for that.

    Being woken up at 5am is punishment enough.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    dodzy wrote: »
    And your reccomendation for punishment would be what exactly ?:rolleyes:

    something like community works...nothing too major, but something that would show that law has been broken and that people need to respect the laws. i'm certainly not advocating a prison sentence or a huge fine...
    mike kelly wrote: »
    You have a lot to learn about how the law works in Ireland.

    i'll be studying it in college, but still try to elaborate on your post


  • Options
    #13
    Mario007
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Mario007


    mike kelly wrote: »
    Being woken up at 5am is punishment enough.

    thats a ridiculous statement, if they didnt want to be woken up at 5 in the morning they should have stayed there...


  • Options
    #14
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    btw they were left off the court without any penalty! what a joke! no matter how sympathetic one can be to their plight, they broke the law!!!

    I think that the laws surrounding Contempt are some of the widest ranging and serious one`sd on our statute books.

    To imply that the TC Staff broke the law is perhaps failing to grasp what that Law actually was.
    The Staff were in breach of a High Court Order which then translated into a contempt case.

    The Gardai were directed to bring the individuals before the Court in order for that court to make a determination as to their status.

    AFAIAA,the signing of undertakings by the staff satisfied the High Court`s requirements as to purging the contempt.

    In this case therefore,there is no "punishment" as the Court has deemed the contempt issue to be resolved.

    What IS interesting is the alacrity of the Thomas Cook company in heading for the High Court and the demonstration by the Gardai that they will act swiftly on any warrant or direction of that Court.

    One could se it as a dress-rehersal for many similar events yet to come as the great-unwashed find themselves squeezed ever more tightly in order to ensure that the fortunes of 50 odd Developers are maintained... :rolleyes:

    As an aside,has anybody seen the state of the Grafton Street TC Shopfront now.....a great mirror onto the facade of TCD indeed...and this from a leading player in the TOURISM INDUSTRY .... :eek:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Options
    #15
    jonsnow
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    AlekSmart wrote: »

    What IS interesting is the alacrity of the Thomas Cook company in heading for the High Court and the demonstration by the Gardai that they will act swiftly on any warrant or direction of that Court.

    One could se it as a dress-rehersal for many similar events yet to come as the great-unwashed find themselves squeezed ever more tightly in order to ensure that the fortunes of 50 odd Developers are maintained... :rolleyes:

    Very interesting.Especially when you compare it to how slowly the wheels of justice turn in relation to other matters.There seems to have been absolutely no forward motion or sense of urgency about the numerous investigations into what was going on at Anglo for example.I know that the situations are very different but it is still striking how quickly the legal process can move when it wants to.

    I read with great interest Judge Pearts ruling that "in a democratic society the rule of law cannot be broken or else there would be anarchy".Lets hope that this doesn,t only apply to disgruntled ordinary workers but also to crooked bankers manipulating the stock market.


  • Options
    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The people laughing longest and hardest must be the barristers and solicitors. There was no way this case could succeed, they must be rolling in the aisles at how unions will fall over each other trying to give them money.

    The workers were used by the employers, and became a handy photo op for every left wing politician in Dublin to affirm their socialist firebrand credentials, and now it'll be rank and file union members who will pick up the tab.


  • Options
    #17
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    I think that the laws surrounding Contempt are some of the widest ranging and serious one`sd on our statute books.

    To imply that the TC Staff broke the law is perhaps failing to grasp what that Law actually was.
    The Staff were in breach of a High Court Order which then translated into a contempt case.

    The Gardai were directed to bring the individuals before the Court in order for that court to make a determination as to their status.

    AFAIAA,the signing of undertakings by the staff satisfied the High Court`s requirements as to purging the contempt.

    In this case therefore,there is no "punishment" as the Court has deemed the contempt issue to be resolved.

    What IS interesting is the alacrity of the Thomas Cook company in heading for the High Court and the demonstration by the Gardai that they will act swiftly on any warrant or direction of that Court.

    One could se it as a dress-rehersal for many similar events yet to come as the great-unwashed find themselves squeezed ever more tightly in order to ensure that the fortunes of 50 odd Developers are maintained... :rolleyes:
    That's a given.

    30+ garda at 5am to remove some people who were selling holidays for a living.

    As an aside,has anybody seen the state of the Grafton Street TC Shopfront now.....a great mirror onto the facade of TCD indeed...and this from a leading player in the TOURISM INDUSTRY .... :eek:

    Yeah I saw it today. All bordered up with some posters for some wire transfering company and some Asian girl handing out leaflets for it. Very bizarre.
    Bren1609 wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the workers demand are? i understand that they have turned down 5 pay weeks pay for each year of service but I havent heard what their demans are...

    They were promised their jobs were safe then on friday were lined up and fired on the spot and told the doors were being shut and TC were gone completely all the while the company is still making a profit and CEO was paid £5million.


  • Options
    #18
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I read with great interest Judge Pearts ruling that "in a democratic society the rule of law cannot be broken or else there would be anarchy".Lets hope that this doesn,t only apply to disgruntled ordinary workers but also to crooked bankers manipulating the stock market.

    I too had to stifle a guffaw as I read the good Judge`s remarks.
    Perhaps the anarchaic aroma has`nt quite permeated through the Four Courts as yet but there`s plenty of it wafting about further downriver.

    A quick stroll along the boardwalk or a walk through Talbot St and environs will set hizzonour right I suspect.

    The abject failure of the Mechanisms of State to even go through the motions of seeking explainations from a relatively small and close knit cabal of bankers/developers/builders/politicians simply stinks when arranged alongside the Garda rush to defend Thomas Cooks constitutional rights....

    Few of the intelligensia appear willing to consider that we as a culture are at a turning point and that there is verly little left holding us back from collapse.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Options
    #19
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    What IS interesting is ... the demonstration by the Gardai that they will act swiftly on any warrant or direction of that Court.
    What an idyllic society we'd live in if the Gardai couldn't be bothered carrying out court orders.


  • Options
    #20
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    They were promised their jobs were safe then on friday were lined up and fired on the spot and told the doors were being shut and TC were gone completely all the while the company is still making a profit and CEO was paid £5million.

    They were promised their jobs were safe, for a short time only. Everyone knew the place was closing, they just brought the closure date forward. And the Irish operation was not making money.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    The workers were used by the employers, and became a handy photo op for every left wing politician in Dublin to affirm their socialist firebrand credentials, and now it'll be rank and file union members who will pick up the tab.

    The only people who used the workers were the bunch of lefties who hijacked the protest for political reasons and manipulated the employees. I'd put money on it that there were alot of disappointed union reps and councillors after the judges ruling as they were all hoping they'd by put in prison so they can then say "Hey, look how great we are, we're going to prison for our cause and the workers" bull****.

    The socialist councillor who was on the media that day was such a tosser. He was comparing it to the great lock out and that he was there to support the workers. Eh, if you were such a supporter rather than an opportunist media whore why didn't you stay with them every night rather than just join them a couple of hours before you knew the gardai would act on the judges order and get yourself arrested ? Same goes for the rest of you tits that weren't actually employees, I'm looking at you RBB.


  • Options
    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    I too had to stifle a guffaw as I read the good Judge`s remarks.
    Perhaps the anarchaic aroma has`nt quite permeated through the Four Courts as yet but there`s plenty of it wafting about further downriver.

    In fairness to Judge Peart, and his colleagues in the High Court, he can't don a cape and mask at night and bring bankers to justice.

    He can only deal with cases brought before him.

    And nothing he said was remotely wrong. In fact, if he were to use the opportunity to talk about bankers or the price of the pint or whatever else was wrong with the country but had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the case before him, we'd be scratching our heads.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Jip wrote: »
    They were promised their jobs were safe, for a short time only. Everyone knew the place was closing, they just brought the closure date forward. And the Irish operation was not making money.



    The only people who used the workers were the bunch of lefties who hijacked the protest for political reasons and manipulated the employees. I'd put money on it that there were alot of disappointed union reps and councillors after the judges ruling as they were all hoping they'd by put in prison so they can then say "Hey, look how great we are, we're going to prison for our cause and the workers" bull****.

    The socialist councillor who was on the media that day was such a tosser. He was comparing it to the great lock out and that he was there to support the workers. Eh, if you were such a supporter rather than an opportunist media whore why didn't you stay with them every night rather than just join them a couple of hours before you knew the gardai would act on the judges order and get yourself arrested ? Same goes for the rest of you tits that weren't actually employees, I'm looking at you RBB.



    richard boyd barrett is a profesional poser


  • Options
    #23
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The workers were used by the employers, and became a handy photo op for every left wing politician in Dublin to affirm their socialist firebrand credentials, and now it'll be rank and file union members who will pick up the tab.

    Seeing as the rank and file supported them and were amongst the people in front of TC for the holiday weekend why does it bother you?
    The photo op came when the TC management were turfed out after trying to prevent two pregnant women from talking to the media. Then two managers shed crocodile tears in front of the cameras. Hours later they were the ones sticking the court order they had just aquired on the door.
    Now one wonders how thick the brown envelope was to get a judge to come into work on a holiday.


  • Options
    #24
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    sovtek wrote: »
    Now one wonders how thick the brown envelope was to get a judge to come into work on a holiday.

    Make any more accusations of corruption of the legal system again and I'll give you a very long ban. You've been here long enough to know that comments like the above are not tolerated.


  • Options
    #25
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    I think there was over-reaction by both sides there. Five weeks redundancy was not a bad offer. The workers should have asked the union to negotiate further rather than occupying the offices.

    When they did occupy the offices Thos Cooks over-reacted. The occupation was a trespass, but as they were closing down the business that weekend anyhow, it was hardly so urgent to get vacant posession of the premises. TC could have left them there, if necessary cutting off any phone etc connections.

    Perhaps this place was too near to the Four COurts. If they were two or three hours drive away, they maight not have rushed to court.

    If the union spent a lot of legal fees defending the injunction they were unwise to do so. There did not seem to be great prospects of preventing such an injunction going through, merely the possibility of some delay for talks.

    Once their union and their legal team told them they could do no more, it was time for the workers to leave.


  • Options
    #26
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    nuac wrote: »
    When they did occupy the offices Thos Cooks over-reacted. The occupation was a trespass, but as they were closing down the business that weekend anyhow, it was hardly so urgent to get vacant posession of the premises. TC could have left them there, if necessary cutting off any phone etc connections.

    I don't think it was an overreaction by Thomas Cook. Action needs to be taken against illegal disputes, such as occupying offices, otherwise you risk making them a common feature of such disputes.


  • Options
    #27
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    nesf wrote: »
    I don't think it was an overreaction by Thomas Cook. Action needs to be taken against illegal disputes, such as occupying offices, otherwise you risk making them a common feature of such disputes.

    agreed , if this kind of thing was encouraged or appeased , it would frighten off foreign investment


  • Options
    #28
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    irish_bob wrote: »
    agreed , if this kind of thing was encouraged or appeased , it would frighten off foreign investment
    Oh dear.


  • Options
    #29
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    irish_bob wrote: »
    agreed , if this kind of thing was encouraged or appeased , it would frighten off foreign investment

    That wouldn't be the main reason, it'd be a nightmare for domestic business as much as foreign.


  • Options
    #30
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    nesf wrote: »
    I don't think it was an overreaction by Thomas Cook. Action needs to be taken against illegal disputes, such as occupying offices, otherwise you risk making them a common feature of such disputes.

    ..and in turn make fair treatment of hard working loyal staff a thing of the past.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    nesf wrote: »
    That wouldn't be the main reason, it'd be a nightmare for domestic business as much as foreign.

    Those poor poor businessmen. My heart doth bleed for them. Getting 5 million bonuses on top of their half billion a year profit. Jesus why would anyone want to invest in that?


Advertisement