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What rail line do you think could be re-opened?

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2

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    #32
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Rather than contradicting you need to refute arguments. Back them up with facts.

    It is a fact that the population served by an extension just to Youghal would serve a very small population.

    I'd have thought with the expansion of Kileagh,Mogeely,Castlemartyr and Youghal over the last 29 years would have justified it.

    I'm not a major railway enthusiast though, so I have no idea.


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    #33
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    KC161 wrote: »
    I'd have thought with the expansion of Kileagh,Mogeely,Castlemartyr and Youghal over the last 29 years would have justified it.

    I'm not a major railway enthusiast though, so I have no idea.

    Populations
    Kileagh 521, Mogeely 327, Castlemartyr 1,277, Youghal 7,101.

    In comparison Navan in 31,689.


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    #34
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Populations
    Kileagh 521, Mogeely 327, Castlemartyr 1,277, Youghal 7,101.

    In comparison Navan in 31,689.

    Which census is that from? 2006?

    Excluding businesses along the way?


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    #35
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Introduction of Drogheda-Navan passenger services would seem to make sense, extend some of the Drogheda-terminating suburban services to Navan.


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    #36
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    KC161 wrote: »
    Which census is that from? 2006?

    Excluding businesses along the way?

    there isn't much beyond Midleton in fairness. They got it right imo only opening that far.


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    #37
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    RUI proposed a timetable for a passenger service from Navan via Drogheda - that's the only one I could see being a runner.

    Athlone - Mullingar looks like it would be useful on paper, but it was hardly used when it was open and both towns have service anyway (& Moate is pretty small).

    The govt/IR would get far more bang for it's buck by dual tracking the Galway line; tri/quad-tracking the Northern line or electrifying the Maynooth line.


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    #38
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Isambard wrote: »
    there isn't much beyond Midleton in fairness. They got it right imo only opening that far.

    They didn't get it right - Midleton/Youghal was never even considered as it was not included in the ancient Cork Land Use & Transportation Study. Reopening to Youghal would add lots of traffic to the line and with proper planning the likes of Killeagh and Mogeely could become new towns with proper infrastructure.

    ****



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    #39
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    loyatemu wrote: »
    RUI proposed a timetable for a passenger service from Navan via Drogheda - that's the only one I could see being a runner.

    Athlone - Mullingar looks like it would be useful on paper, but it was hardly used when it was open and both towns have service anyway (& Moate is pretty small).

    The govt/IR would get far more bang for it's buck by dual tracking the Galway line; tri/quad-tracking the Northern line or electrifying the Maynooth line.

    Blatantly untrue and the Athlone/Mullingar section was quite busy until CIE decided to shove everything on to the Athlone/Portarlington line.

    ****



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    #40
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    They didn't get it right - Midleton/Youghal was never even considered as it was not included in the ancient Cork Land Use & Transportation Study. Reopening to Youghal would add lots of traffic to the line and with proper planning the likes of Killeagh and Mogeely could become new towns with proper infrastructure.

    It would only be justified if (as you propose) the towns on the line were greatly expanded. But why do that when there's plenty of scope for developing land closer to Cork - it's like developers building estates in Portlaoise because it's "only" an hour from Dublin by train, it's crazy planning.


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    #41
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Blatantly untrue and the Athlone/Mullingar section was quite busy until CIE decided to shove everything on to the Athlone/Portarlington line.

    Wasn't there only one passenger train a week on it for many years?

    Presumably IR have done the maths on it's strategic value as an alternative route versus the cost of keeping it open.


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    #42
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    loyatemu wrote: »
    RUI proposed a timetable for a passenger service from Navan via Drogheda - that's the only one I could see being a runner.

    Really? What would the running time be for such a service?


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    #43
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Wasn't there only one passenger train a week on it for many years?

    Presumably IR have done the maths on it's strategic value as an alternative route versus the cost of keeping it open.

    IE supposibly doing the maths doesn't mean much if anything to be fair. CIE had an agenda to shut that line and when a line is shut it rarely reopens.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #44
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Really? What would the running time be for such a service?

    http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/navan/navan_drogheda.php


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    #45
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Really? What would the running time be for such a service?

    http://railusers.ie/campaigns/navan/navan_timetable_morning.pdf

    this was in 2005 though, the M3 wasn't even open so it's probably not competitive with current bus times.


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    #46
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    They didn't get it right - Midleton/Youghal was never even considered as it was not included in the ancient Cork Land Use & Transportation Study. Reopening to Youghal would add lots of traffic to the line and with proper planning the likes of Killeagh and Mogeely could become new towns with proper infrastructure.

    It's more efficient to have Midleton as a railhead drawing traffic from the surrounding countryside, which would include Youghal et al. Extend to Youghal and you still won't serve the majority of the area, and many would still have to drive to the station. I think it makes sense for them to drive to Midleton from all directions. You really can't service small villages with a railway line.

    As a comparison look at Didcot Parkway in the UK. It serves a large section of countryside between Didcot and Swindon including Wantage, a fairly large country town and Grove, virtually a New Town and Abingdon and several large villages/small towns that make Youghal look like a tiddler. The Vale used to have several small stations, there never has been any case made reopen them, even though the line through them is still open.


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    #47
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Isambard wrote: »
    there isn't much beyond Midleton in fairness. They got it right imo only opening that far.

    Not much beyond Midleton?

    The N25 as a whole is a major traffic blackspot.

    Reopening that line would ease the traffic on the roads there.

    The M25 won't be open in my life time to ease the issues there.

    When i worked in East Cork from Midleton onwards, the locals all said the line should have been continued the full length.

    Even David Stanton the Midleton TD called for it.

    There was always a true saying going around, if the Cobh line is still open there will always be hope for Youghal.

    And before people mention the tourist season in Cobh, that is all that is keeping that line going, i travelled on both the Midleton and Cobh trains, they are definitely loss making in their current format.

    The government wants to get people out of their cars and into public transport? They have the opportunity but won't take it.

    Reinventing the West Cork line is all but gone.

    Given the amount of land now in private ownership plus road development since 1961.

    An M71 is highly unlikely i would think.


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    #48
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    I can't help but think bypassing Killeagh and Castlematyr would cost much the same as rebuilding Midleton to Youghal railway and benefit far more people.


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    #49
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Isambard wrote: »
    I can't help but think bypassing Killeagh and Castlematyr would cost much the same as rebuilding Midleton to Youghal railway and benefit far more people.

    That may well be in the plan, and mother of god bypassing those 2 villages is something i pray for every week with the levels of traffic on it.

    I think the biggest problem in reopening the Youghal line is the bog road and the issues with subsidence?

    This thread discussed it before. The poll is only a small amount of people but it still speaks for itself.



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057139245


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    #50
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Blatantly untrue and the Athlone/Mullingar section was quite busy until CIE decided to shove everything on to the Athlone/Portarlington line.

    Yes - Mullingar to Athlone should be restored, it and Athlone - Galway had perhaps the fastest alignment in the country. Together they could provide a very fast Enfield - Galway service. The problem of course is the tortuous route between Maynooth and Dublin.

    At least we could have double track for most of the Dublin - Galway route without earthworks that would be required between Portarlington and Athlone.


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    #51
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    KC161 wrote: »
    Not much beyond Midleton?

    The N25 as a whole is a major traffic blackspot.

    Reopening that line would ease the traffic on the roads there.

    The M25 won't be open in my life time to ease the issues there.

    When i worked in East Cork from Midleton onwards, the locals all said the line should have been continued the full length.

    Even David Stanton the Midleton TD called for it.

    There was always a true saying going around, if the Cobh line is still open there will always be hope for Youghal.

    And before people mention the tourist season in Cobh, that is all that is keeping that line going, i travelled on both the Midleton and Cobh trains, they are definitely loss making in their current format.

    The government wants to get people out of their cars and into public transport? They have the opportunity but won't take it.

    Reinventing the West Cork line is all but gone.

    Given the amount of land now in private ownership plus road development since 1961.

    An M71 is highly unlikely i would think.

    It would be more advantageous if a large Park and Ride was built along the N25 nearer Cork and this was used for people to get to Cork, inconjunction with the N25 Carrigtwohill-Youghal dual carraigeway to get the joke levels of traffic out of Castlemartyr and Killeagh. Passenger services to Youghal may not be seen as viable but I think there's a case considering the extreme commute times to Cork (the 7am bus from Youghal just about makes CIT for 9am - that's obscene)

    Regarding the West Cork line, considering the N71 on approach to the Bandon Road R/A is carrying 24k vehicles a day there could be some viability in a rail line but the alignment is beyond destroyed. The trackbed from the South Ring into the city centre is now occupied by the N27 South City Link Road and most of the alignment further out is now farmland.

    An M71 may not be seen as viable due to the fact it's a national secondary but I would say an M71 is very likely to be built between now and 2035.


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    #52
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork aside, the rail lines into Limerick are an awful waste especially passing Raheen and going out the massively congested N21. Running services to and from Raheen would potentially cut into the car commuting necessary to get to Raheen. I would say the North Kerry line as far as Newcastlewest is viable especially if there was a stop in Raheen and a stop out the eastern side of the city.

    Cork-Limerick direct services need examing going into the future too.


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    #53
    XPS_Zero
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    I need to get from Limerick to Galway to Mayo during the summer

    There does not seem to be any services that run from the west to the west, is there no demand for it? They all route me back through Heuston?

    Is there even BE services?


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    #54
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    XPS_Zero wrote: »
    I need to get from Limerick to Galway to Mayo during the summer

    There does not seem to be any services that run from the west to the west, is there no demand for it? They all route me back through Heuston?

    Is there even BE services?

    Limerick-Portarlington-Athlone-Mayo
    Limerick-Athenry-Athlone-Mayo

    First would likely be faster

    There is BE from Limerick to Galway, the 51 route. Not sure about Galway to Mayo but I've no doubt there is some sort of service


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    #55
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    We really did a fantastic job of dismantling our once extensive railway lines.


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    #56
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,776 ✭✭✭SeanW


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Having been on trains in the UK that were re-routed around closures I can see the benefit to alternative paths, which is why I think the Athlone-Mullingar section would probably be the most useful if re-opened: it would give an alternative path from the West to Dublin in the case of engineering works, mechanical failures, etc.

    Are there any other potentially useful lines that could be re-opened?
    Two come to mind:

    1. Athlone-Mullingar - a direct route into Dublin City going West through Westmeath/Meath instead of South into Laois. It would also allow Galway/Mayo/Athlone trains to serve NUI Maynooth on their way into the City Centre as opposed to f all on the way to Heuston.

      It would take some work and expense to reroute the Athlone Mullingar section of greenway, but I believe that too would be beneficial because the main street in Moate is extremely wide, and some of it could be appropriated for a re-routed Greenway, it would be great for the pubs and shops along the main street.
    2. Dunboyne-Navan. Fast commuter train service into the City from that part of Meath would open up a new short range commuter belt, relieving some of the property shortage among people working in Dublin. Lowering costs for people all around.


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    #57
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    SeanW wrote: »
    Two come to mind:

    1. Athlone-Mullingar - a direct route into Dublin City going West through Westmeath/Meath instead of South into Laois. It would also allow Galway/Mayo/Athlone trains to serve NUI Maynooth on their way into the City Centre as opposed to f all on the way to Heuston.

      It would take some work and expense to reroute the Athlone Mullingar section of greenway, but I believe that too would be beneficial because the main street in Moate is extremely wide, and some of it could be appropriated for a re-routed Greenway, it would be great for the pubs and shops along the main street.
    2. Dunboyne-Navan. Fast commuter train service into the City from that part of Meath would open up a new short range commuter belt, relieving some of the property shortage among people working in Dublin. Lowering costs for people all around.
    Dunboyne-Navan's alignment has been destroyed by the M3, so would likely need to be comissioned on a completely new alignment. Would be a new railway rather than a reopened one. When Metro North and Dart U are opened I would consider it an extremely viable option.


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    #58
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,108 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    marno21 wrote: »
    Dunboyne-Navan's alignment has been destroyed by the M3, so would likely need to be comissioned on a completely new alignment. Would be a new railway rather than a reopened one. When Metro North and Dart U are opened I would consider it an extremely viable option.

    Just making a point on that one. The original Navan rail alignment is absolutely compromised, but not totally destroyed. However to reinstate it and make provisions for the M3 disturbance certainly adds to the cost. To make a new alignment would put it to the stars on cost terms even if its about deviations at certain points. Navan was never feasible once the M3 was built.

    If MN and DU were built, Navan could be far more feasible along the current Tara Mines route.


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    #59
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Just making a point on that one. The original Navan rail alignment is absolutely compromised, but not totally destroyed. However to reinstate it and make provisions for the M3 disturbance certainly adds to the cost. To make a new alignment would put it to the stars on cost terms even if its about deviations at certain points. Navan was never feasible once the M3 was built.

    If MN and DU were built, Navan could be far more feasible along the current Tara Mines route.

    Would it be really that much though. Atm the current m3 branch isnt bad it certainly does get used but building the line to Navan should still happen. Restoring services on the Navan to Drogheda branch aint a bad idea but at the same time this would put more pressure on the Northern Line unless it were just a shuttle service. The only thing is it should be built so that it connects with the tara mines spur as this would establish a second line between Drogheda and Dublin. It also would make a good line to base a Dart depot at the M3 end as well too.


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    #60
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,577 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    XPS_Zero wrote: »
    I need to get from Limerick to Galway to Mayo during the summer

    There does not seem to be any services that run from the west to the west, is there no demand for it? They all route me back through Heuston?

    Is there even BE services?

    Limerick to Galway has several options:

    Direct rail services
    http://www.irishrail.ie/media/17_limk-galway_valid_from_20112016.pdf

    There is also the Bus Eireann X51 Express:
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1473435956-X51.pdf

    The 51 semi-express:
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1475575377-51.pdf

    Citylink route 251: http://www.citylink.ie/timetables

    Local Bus Eireann service route 350 Ennis-Galway via West Coast:
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1477574876-350.pdf

    From Galway to Mayo there are numerous Bus Eireann routes:

    Expressway:

    Route 52 Galway-Castlebar-Westport & Ballina
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1473420575-52.pdf

    Route 64 Galway-Sligo via Knock
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1478276629-64.pdf

    Local Services:
    Route 422 Galway-Westport
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1425994371-422.pdf

    Route 456 Galway-Westport & Ballina
    http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1475581494-456.pdf

    In high summer the route 421 also extends to operate Clifden-Westport.


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    #61
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Big discussion on railway infrastructure at the moment. 100 years ago we had railways and trains running to almost every corner of Ireland, why why why did the powers that be 40 or 50 years ago decide to pull up half the counties railway lines, it was a terrible mistake. What was not needed half a century ago is wanted now, an absolute shame.



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