Any cops out there?

ART6 · 20-06-2008 05:25PM #1

Looking at a lot of threads in AH and Motors Forum, there seems to be some criticism of the Gardai. "Didn't respond." "Couldn't have cared less." etc etc.

I can recall years ago that if I went into Waterford City for anything there seemed to be Gardai patrolling all over the place. I didn't make any particular note of them. They were just there. Now, thinking back on it, I can't recall seeing any for a long time. Meanwhile we have (I'm told) a crime and drugs problem. So. Are they now all sitting in a barracks watching TV cameras?

In New York City, a place where I have spent some time on occasions, there seemed to be a cop with a night stick on every street corner, and all of them gave the impression that he would quite like to bend his night stick over someone's head.

So. Have we reached the point where we simply can't afford proper policing? Have we moved from the days where my wife could wander around Waterford in absolute safety to a point where even I cannot?

What's happened? Or am I misjudging the situation?

challengemaster · 20-06-2008 05:28PM

I'd say the cops in NY had a bit more than a nightstick on them!!

And tbh I think most of the Gardaí are just lazy féckers.

dc69 · 20-06-2008 05:36PM

Most gardai are tossers who were too uneducated to do anything else and joined up for a quick buck imo.There are very few honest gaurds with good intentions left.

There is always a few of them driving around my area eating chinese,they do nothing imo.They seem to spend their time doing important things such as taking drink off teenagers.

phantom_lord · 20-06-2008 05:39PM

they're all doing paper work

kerry4sam · 20-06-2008 05:45PM

challengemaster wrote: »

...And tbh I think most of the Gardaí are just lazy féckers.

dc69 wrote: »

Most gardai are tossers who were too uneducated to do anything else and joined up for a quick buck imo.There are very few honest gaurds with good intentions left.

It's clear to me that neither of you actually know the Gardai in your area or even the trojan work that they do (yes all of them! whether you see them or not, they have savage work to do that the public don't always see) ...

I know the Gardai in my area and what they actually go through and it's definitely the profession for me.

You just don't go into a career in An Garda Siochana for the money, everyone knows that fact. When the going gets tough and it does, you have to have the determination and will-power to continue, and it's at those times that it doesn't matter what's in the bank account that keeps you going.

dc69 · 20-06-2008 05:50PM

kerry4sam wrote: »

You just don't go into a career in An Garda Siochana for the money, everyone knows that fact. When the going gets tough and it does, you have to have the determination and will-power to continue, and it's at those times that it doesn't matter what's in the bank account that keeps you going.

Are you joking?

A nice public sector job,nice pension,job security and being stupidly overpaid.

Takes about a year of training,you dont need any qualifications to speak of to get in.

Minimal risk of injury,Drive around busting kids.Yeah,id say the going gets tough pouring drink out of cans and being rude and obnoxious to people.

They get the best young people the country has to offer alright:D

Caoimhín · 20-06-2008 05:52PM

I was in Dunshaughlin this morning at about 7.30am. I was turning the jeep in the car park of the supermarket and a silver Ford Mondeo pulled in in front of me, half blocking the road.
Out jumped the passenger armed with a semi-auto rifle and stood looking at me. The driver got out with a hand gun and stepped in front of my jeep. No ID/Uniform/Garda bibs.
Needless to say i got a fright. They had a good look at me and i made a gesture with my hand to say i was just turning (and presumably not attempting to shoot at them) and the driver waved me on.

The only reason i presumed they were guards was the 2 aerials on the Dublin reg Ford Mondeo and the fact the men were wearing suits (you know the ill fitting shabby suits that guards seem to love).

Maybe they were hitmen???
Im lucky i didnt make a dive for the glove box to get my licence, could be dead writing this.

Rb · 20-06-2008 05:53PM

ART6 wrote: »

In New York City, a place where I have spent some time on occasions, there seemed to be a cop with a night stick on every street corner, and all of them gave the impression that he would quite like to bend his night stick over someone's head.

Yeah NY has a great police force. When I was there in January I was able to wander about by myself at 3-4am without having to worry too much due to there being police patrolling.

I think things are improving here, or at least in Dublin they seem to be. A few years ago when leaving a club you'd rarely see any Gardaí about, now they seem to be patrolling regularly at night in the city centre.

The crime problems are escalating here though, they're not doing a great job of clamping down it.

sam34 · 20-06-2008 05:54PM

my father used to say that to get into the guards all you have to be is tall and thick!

in fairness, they have a high enough profile where im living,(killarney)i often see them walking or even cycling around. and see the traffic corps a good bit too.

dublinminx · 20-06-2008 05:56PM

In fairness the Gardai are an easy target for abuse. 'They' close our pubs early, 'they' give us parking/speeding fines, 'they' arrest people for enjoying themselves.
Truth is, our city/country would be lawless without them, so it easy to blame the other.
Reality imo is that we have a country with huge crime/public order problems.
Yes the Gardai are not dealing with any of this with much effectiveness. But that is not your average plod's issue or fault.
They are controlled by government policy, hierarchy, no more than most people who work for a large corporation/body.
The complaint imo is how the country allows its lawforce to govern. Ours doesn't. Therefore you cannot blame joe plod for trying to do his job. Oh oh oh, and the day you get mugged/burgled etc, you'll be damn glad to have him there, and moaning that there aren't enough.

dc69 · 20-06-2008 05:57PM

sam34 wrote: »

my father used to say that to get into the guards all you have to be is tall and thick!

Your father couldnt be more correct.

(although I dont think there is a height restriction anymore):D

phantom_lord · 20-06-2008 06:00PM

dublinminx wrote: »

In fairness the Gardai are an easy target for abuse. 'They' close our pubs early, 'they' give us parking/speeding fines, 'they' arrest people for enjoying themselves.
Truth is, our city/country would be lawless without them, so it easy to blame the other.
Reality imo is that we have a country with huge crime/public order problems.
Yes the Gardai are not dealing with any of this with much effectiveness. But that is not your average plod's issue or fault.
They are controlled by government policy, hierarchy, no more than most people who work for a large corporation/body.
The complaint imo is how the country allows its lawforce to govern. Ours doesn't. Therefore you cannot blame joe plod for trying to do his job. Oh oh oh, and the day you get mugged/burgled etc, you'll be damn glad to have him there, and moaning that there aren't enough.

oh hai Mr Garda

ojewriej · 20-06-2008 06:00PM

dc69 wrote: »

stupidly overpaid?

Really? How do you know that? Do you know how much Gardai earn?

dc69 wrote: »

Takes about a year of training,you dont need any qualifications to speak of to get in.

Now I know you don't have a clue.

Training takes 3 years, at the end you actually get a degree. So there you go, you do need a qualification.

Every year about 10.000 people apply, and less than a 1000 gets in. That means that to get in you have to beat about 10 other people in a long recruitment process which involves apptitude and anlitycal reasoning tests, job simulation exercise and interview, among other things. You also need to speak to languages.

Hardly something for people "too uneducated to do anything else"

dc69 · 20-06-2008 06:04PM

ojewriej wrote: »

Really? How do you know that? Do you know how much Gardai earn?

Now I know you don't have a clue.

Training takes 3 years, at the end you actually get a degree. So there you go, you do need a qualification.

Every year about 10.000 people apply, and less than a 1000 gets in. That means that to get in you have to beat about 10 other people in a long recruitment process which involves apptitude and anlitycal reasoning tests, job simulation exercise and interview, among other things. You also need to speak to languages.

Hardly something for people "too uneducated to do anything else"

I know a few people in the gaurds,so yeah I have an idea of how much they are paid.

As for your other comment,I dont believe you.Can I have some evidence.

Any guard I have ever met or any guard I know,are uneducated dickheads and every guard I know,joined the force because they either didnt want to go to college,failed or dropped out or couldnt do anything else.

There are some good guardai but not the young guards,they have different motives for joining than the guards of years ago.

dublinminx · 20-06-2008 06:07PM

Couldn't be farther from the truth. I, like most people my age, flaunt the law when it suits me, and hope not to get caught.
Reality is, although our gardai are a joke, we need some sort of law enforcement. What they choose to enforce is a whole nother kettle of heffalumps.
I am also a frequent visitor to NY, and after Guiliani's reign, their street cops seemed to get the balance right. They 'police' proper crime, and let normal joes not upsetting the applecart about their business.
Back to my original post. Our issue imo, is more with government, draconian laws and disenabling untrained people to enforce it.

sam34 · 20-06-2008 06:07PM

a few sweeping generalisations there, dc69!to be fair, you cant tar the entire force based on a few people you know.

keen · 20-06-2008 06:09PM

edit

biko · 20-06-2008 06:14PM

I see them almost every day in city centre.

pvt.joker · 20-06-2008 06:23PM

Great garda bashing thread ye have going on here lads.
Fair play. :rolleyes:

You must have some size of a brush to tar all 12,000+ gardai with.

Get a clue ffs, there are rotten apples in every group of workers, gardai are no exception. The difference these days compared to years ago is that they're being exposed by the ombudsman and being dealt with.

chalad07 · 20-06-2008 06:24PM

I'm generally not one for generalisations, but here goes!

Most guards are not up to the job. The majority of the people who join the guards do so because it's a handy number, decent money, or they like the power. Anyone that is genuinely intelligent and a go-getter will do very well in the guards very quickly, the competition is not up to much,

Down in Templemore these guys are treated like children. What kind of grown man allows someone to tell them when to go to bed? Small thing but i do think it says something,

I know this doesn’t apply to most, but from my experience most. Think we need to start targeting a different standard of people in the recruitment process.

ojewriej · 20-06-2008 06:26PM

dc69 wrote: »

I know a few people in the gaurds,so yeah I have an idea of how much they are paid..

Have a look at their salary scales then -http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml. Pay is not bad, but hardly amazing. And as for pension and other perks, they are good, but they are good everywhere in public service.

dc69 wrote: »

As for your other comment,I dont believe you.Can I have some evidence.

There you go
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2004/12/21/story812765075.asp

Those are numbers froim 2004, don't have time to look for anything more recent. But since then, to cope with the ammount of applicants, they changed the process and recruit 4 times a year, rather than just once.

dc69 wrote: »

Any guard I have ever met or any guard I know,are uneducated dickheads and every guard I know,joined the force because they either didnt want to go to college,failed or dropped out or couldnt do anything else.

And every guard I ever met or know was/is very helpfull and highly educated or at least very smart. So there you go.

Terry · 20-06-2008 06:29PM

phantom_lord wrote: »

they're all doing paper work

That's exactly what it is.

All the liberal hippies are the cause of that too.

You can't have decent treatment of prisoners and an effective police force at the same time. It's just not viable.

FOGOFUNK · 20-06-2008 06:36PM

**** Boys! Fat Garda!! Leg it!

ojewriej · 20-06-2008 06:42PM

chalad07 wrote: »

Down in Templemore these guys are treated like children. What kind of grown man allows someone to tell them when to go to bed? Small thing but i do think it says something,

Same kind of man, to whom you will run crying for help when someone will happyslap you so hard that you will fall of your high horse.

chalad07 · 20-06-2008 07:00PM

come on though, it's a bit much for a someone that might be 25 to be told when to go to bed, when they can watch tv, when they do anything,

I know a guard, and he'll freely admit that most of the people he's working with are crap at their jobs - they see it as an easy life. From what i can see the cops dont make much efforts trying to recruit a better standard of people - graduates etc. From what i know there is no 'fast track' program similar to the army cadets. This type of thing would attract better recruits,

Eglinton · 20-06-2008 07:11PM

ojewriej wrote: »

Have a look at their salary scales then -http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml. Pay is not bad, but hardly amazing. And as for pension and other perks, they are good, but they are good everywhere in public service.

A guard with 17 years service only gets €48,695? Really? I was on that within two years. How do they feed their families? Or am I reading those pay scales incorrectly? I know you can make up more with overtime (€31 according to that) but it's not nice to have to depend on overtime.

source · 20-06-2008 07:24PM

I love it when these threads pop up, there's never any shortage of people jumping on the we hate the gardai bandwagon.

on the topic of being told when to go to bed, any and all disciplined forces, ie police and military, have curfews for their recruits, It's a way of instilling discipline same as foot drill which student gardai do too.

on the point of people never seeing gardai on the street, well if we first look at some duties that gardai have to perform, ie Public office duties, that's one garda off the street, (in Uk it's done by civilians, and in NY it's done by sergeants). Then you have the foot patrol, usually you'd have one maybe two gardai out, Most country stations only have one car, so that's another two gardai, then you have the need to do files, and that would pretty much take up a unit. Also "country" stations (usually a medium/large town station) have quite a large area to police, ie maybe 40 odd miles

Now in the city there's not much excuse because a unit could be up to 25 gardai.but as people have pointed out here already the cities are not much of a problem when it comes to seeing gardai.

markpb · 20-06-2008 07:27PM

Mr.S wrote: »

very rarley see a garda on the streets, even in town their hard to come by. was in Edinburgh recently, and the amount of Police was mad, every street had 2 police men patroling, always to be seen.

Rb wrote: »

Yeah NY has a great police force. When I was there in January I was able to wander about by myself at 3-4am without having to worry too much due to there being police patrolling.

The main reason for that is numbers. There are 229 people for every member of NYPD but 309 for every member of AGS. New York is also a lot smaller area to cover than the Republic so you end up with more police officers per person and per area. High visibility policing works well, we don't have it here so every scumbag in the country knows they have a great chance of getting away with anything they like no matter how good AGS are.

Lilibet · 20-06-2008 07:44PM

Why do people always assume that the Gardai are uneducated or stupid when,in fact, many of them are extremely well educated even before they follow a career in An Garda Siochana.My daughter is very well educated to Masters level and is joining the force as are some friends of hers at a similar level.So don't insult their intelligence with ill informed generalisations.
As for being told what time to go to bed,it is all part of training to obey lawful commands of a superior officer.Amazing that people seem to have a problem with that but don't question when 25year old army trainees have to obey rules while in barracks.

Terry · 20-06-2008 07:47PM

Lilibet wrote: »

Why do people always assume that the Gardai are uneducated or stupid when,in fact, many of them are extremely well educated even before they follow a career in An Garda Siochana.My daughter is very well educated to Masters level and is joining the force as are some friends of hers at a similar level.So don't insult their intelligence with ill informed generalisations.
As for being told what time to go to bed,it is all part of training to obey lawful commands of a superior officer.Amazing that people seem to have a problem with that but don't question when 25year old army trainees have to obey rules while in barracks.

Ahh, pay no mind to these comments.

Most of them are from people who are as poorly educated as they claim the Gardaí are.

chalad07 · 20-06-2008 08:08PM

i dont think that the analogy of the army applies, presumably these type of commands arise from the need to condition soldiers to unquestioningly follow orders in a combat situation,

I just dont see why the guards would need this type of Training. There seems to be some sort of tactic in place to brainwash new recruits into the garda way of thinking. It allows little room for innovation, or new ideas, something that is badly need in the police force,

Granted, i have generalised, but it seems that your daughter is an exception, theres not many cops with masters degrees, or any non related degrees. Its people like your daughter that the guards need to concentrate on recruiting

Any cops out there?

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