Why do people hate Bi-Sexuals.

Boston · 10-09-2004 8:36pm #1

I was talking to a friend about life and love and all that usual crap, when for what ever reason the conversation went towards her bi-sexuality. Now she hadn’t told me before, and I nearly didn’t even notice she had said it, until she started going into detail. After much discuss we came to the conclusion that most people don’t mind you being Gay, they don’t mind you being straight either, but if you’re Bi people really don’t like you. People seem to have a major problem with other people they believe to be gay, going out with a member of the opposite sex. As if it’s evil.

Is it because people like to pigeonhole other people into specific well defined categories and if you deviate from they perceived preconceptions of the world and how things work, then you’re in some way a destructive and negative influence.

Is it because the things they use to define there sexuality as being specifically in one direction, (100% gay or 100% straight) are the very same things Bi-Sexuals use to define their sexuality in both directions? And People don’t like this because it challenges their own personal life choice.

Is it because people perceive it as being deceitful and greedy. That you want the best of both worlds but you’re unwilling to commit to a single path, so you’re leading your partner on, and pretending to be something you’re not?

Just thinking about it recently and these are my thought on it, care to discus.

FX Meister · 10-09-2004 8:40pm

I've got no problems with it as long as it's a girl. Rofl
Seriously, do people have problems about bis? I only know one bi dude and no one I know has a problem with him, we just slag him saying he cant make up his mind.

omnicorp · 10-09-2004 8:41pm

Were you listening to Fm104 a week or two ago?
That Sophie who was talking at 9.30pm was so anti-Bi-Sexual!
If she was talking that way about Gays she'd never be on the Radio again...
It's a lack of understanding.

(ps, I am not Bi-Sexual or Gay)

McGinty · 10-09-2004 8:44pm

I would say each to their own. But in the case of bi-sexuality, its not that. In the case of women (and this seems unfair) I would say that most/some people are okay with this. Where men are concerned (and this is where I have issue with) there is the threat of disease, such as aids and so forth. Maybe that is where the discrimination lies?

Antisocialiser · 10-09-2004 8:46pm

Pick a team and play on it

nah just kidding i have no problem with it

Boston · 10-09-2004 8:46pm

FX Meister wrote:

I've got no problems with it as long as it's a girl. Rofl.

God the hil-ar-ity of it all. Most Bi-sexuals seem to feel very different things towards each sex. So it's not really a case of make your mind up, more a case of getting something different from being with different types of people.

omnicorp. No I wasn't listening to that. Also why did you add in the disclaimer. Always wonder do people attribute posting on this forum with being not straight.

Boston · 10-09-2004 8:50pm

McGinty wrote:

I would say each to their own. But in the case of bi-sexuality, its not that. In the case of women (and this seems unfair) I would say that most/some people are okay with this. Where men are concerned (and this is where I have issue with) there is the threat of disease, such as aids and so forth. Maybe that is where the discrimination lies?

Yea what? First off love, Straight men get Aids, and every other feicing STI you can imagine. So you're saying you don't like Bi - men because they sleep with men, pick up disease and then give it to women. Bus Gay - Men are ok because they only disease each other and Bi-women are ok, because they can't get STI? Is that what your saying? What about Bi-men who pratice safe sex, and are faithfull to their partners.

10-09-2004 9:18pm

Boston wrote:

Also why did you add in the disclaimer. Always wonder do people attribute posting on this forum with being not straight.

I'm posting here right now and have done so before-no disclaimer

That said I think Boston the issue you raise in this thread is not disrelated to people (even though they are using nicks) wanting to put in those disclaimers for apparent fear of being assumed to be gay or bisexual or whatever.

I would guess the answer to your question is either ignorance mixed with fear and jealousy or both.
Prejudices to me are just pathetic, anyone that holds them regardless of who what why or where is just less of a person in my eyes than those who don't and who are tollerant of peoples freedom to be what they want to be.
I basically avoid the company of prejudiced people ,I'll make my point to them where necessary in a calm way, but don't see the need to crusade against them,I couldn't be bothered,I'd let them on with their pathetic little inadequacies as long as they are not affecting me or anyone that I'd care about.
Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet and all that... *
ie I'm more concerned with those I care about and myself being in good humour and good company to give too much of a rats áss about other peoples ignorance.

*p.s I don't smoke-thats just a turn of phrase round here-from an add I think when I was a kid.

azezil · 10-09-2004 9:53pm

Boston wrote:

Yea what? First off love, Straight men get Aids, and every other feicing STI you can imagine. So you're saying you don't like Bi - men because they sleep with men, pick up disease and then give it to women. Bus Gay - Men are ok because they only disease each other and Bi-women are ok, because they can't get STI? Is that what your saying? What about Bi-men who pratice safe sex, and are faithfull to their partners.

STI's are statisically higher amoung Bi-sexual men...

Personally i've no issue with bi people, bit bi curious myself!

Boston · 10-09-2004 10:17pm

azezil wrote:

STI's are statisically higher amoung Bi-sexual men...

Maybe true, but that really doesn't explain the attitude.

BuffyBot · 10-09-2004 10:27pm

Doesn't bother me at all. I do wonder why people have such issues, but there it nowt as queer as folk as they say...

Boston · 10-09-2004 10:30pm

BuffyBot wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all. I do wonder why people have such issues, but there it nowt as queer as folk as they say...

Would it bother you if you where with someone who was BI, would you find it weird?

claire h · 11-09-2004 11:42am

Because a lot of people associate it with just "trying to be cool", or "experimenting", without having any emotional investment in it. For example, some girls will kiss each other at the encouragement of boys - not because they *want* to, but because they know it'll impress/turn on the guys, or because of the shock factor, or whatever reason they have. Or someone will kiss someone else of the same sex just to see what it feels like, but insist they're still very much interested in the opposite sex - but the little foray into same-sex activities gives them an extra "mystique" while they're still definitely labelling themselves as "normal" - i.e. wanting relationships with the opposite sex.

And people do associate that kind of activity with being bisexual, because a lot of those people will claim that they are, and I think that's where the idea that people who are bisexual aren't actually; they're just bi-curious, or have had the occasional experience.

On the other end of the scale there's the idea that people who are claiming to be bisexual are actually gay, but it's easier to say that you're bisexual because then you can "pass" as straight in many situations, and people of the same sex can talk to you about their opposite-sex-romances and expect you to understand and to relate similar experiences and yadda yadda.

Then there's the "bisexual = promiscuous" school of thought, which seems to believe that being bisexual means that because you're attracted to both sexes, you must be attracted to loads of people at the same time - after all, there's twice as many people to choose from! Which is utter rubbish.

Finally, bisexuality is associated with sexual relations involving more than two people in bed together - the idea that you need at least two people, one of either sex, to "satisfy" you, or that you'll go along with threesomes or orgies, because, hell, you're attracted to *everyone* so it doesn't matter. Again, rubbish.

People also don't like the idea that if they're going out with someone who's bisexual, that they might be left for someone of the opposite sex. I'm not sure why - surely it'd be just as bad if you're being left for someone of the same sex, either way you're being *left*. And they do assume that the bisexual one in the relationship will be the one to leave, because there's again the misconception that bisexuality and monogamy are not compatible.

So you've got part of the straight community thinking that bisexuality is all right, bit kinky but it's grand because at the end of the day you're not actually "completely" gay, and then you've got the other part of it thinking that they don't really get it because you're not gay but you kinda are, because they're used to putting people into little boxes. And then part of the gay community are all, yay, we will embrace you 'cause you're cool and we get you, and we understand what it's like not to fit into society's expectations of us, but then there's the other part which have the look, you're not really gay, so don't even try to claim to be remotely like us. The sooner people start seeing sexuality as a scale rather than something that's black or white, the better off we'll all be.

Thus endeth this post.

BuffyBot · 11-09-2004 12:23pm

Would it bother you if you where with someone who was BI, would you find it weird?

Nope, I've had partners who were bi before. Doesn't bother me in the least

Bottle_of_Smoke · 11-09-2004 12:33pm

I don't think people "don't like" bisexuality, they're just wary of it, theres another few reason, one as someone pointed out is because some people do it to fit in with a certain crowd(which is usually in school and harmless enough IMO) which is disliked.

Another reason is people can feel threatened, my friend had a girlfriend who was bi and she scored some girl in the next room thinking he wouldnt care and he flipped. I'd be pissed off too if it was my girlfriend and I think a lot of bisexuals(particularly female) see it as "not counting" etc.

If i had a bisexual girlfriend I prob would feel a bit threatened because the nature of her sexuality implies she needs women to be satisfied too, and I never get jealous over other men.

elexes · 11-09-2004 12:38pm

greedy .... well that was the old joke .

the_syco · 12-09-2004 3:53pm

Boston wrote:

Always wonder do people attribute posting on this forum with being not straight.

It shows that there are people who are on the other side, who agree/don't mind your point/sexuality. As its a LFB forum, one may presume that everyone on it is gay (as everyone who posts on the battlefiled forum plays battlefield), but me, and a few others say we're not.
I suppose its kind of like saying "we're from the opposite team, but @ the same time, we're OK with you doing whatever you do".

Boston wrote:

Would it bother you if you where with someone who was BI, would you find it weird?

Have a "bring a friend day". ROFLMFAO!

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

my friend had a girlfriend who was bi and she scored some girl in the next room thinking he wouldnt care and he flipped. I'd be pissed off too if it was my girlfriend and I think a lot of bisexuals(particularly female) see it as "not counting" etc.

Seriously, tho, I agree with Bottle_of_Smoke onbeing pissed off if she went off and scored. The way I see it is if she brought a woman along, it 'd be in the relationship, but if she went off and scored, she went off and scored, whilst in a relationship with me. Whom she scored with is not important, its the fact that she scored whilst in a relationship with me that I'd see as wrong. It'd be like me going off and scoring, thinking that its alright with her, for reason unknown.

damien · 12-09-2004 4:59pm

azezil wrote:

STI's are statisically higher amoung Bi-sexual men...

Yet more gay men have HIV, Aids, Hepatitis B, Syphilis and gonorhea than Bisexual men.

Dónall · 12-09-2004 11:00pm

I'd like to mention a few things here.

Back at the begining of this thread someone mentioned that female bisexuality is seen as being more acceptable socially. I think this is probabaly true, but not in a liberating way - rather, in some ways two women together isn't taken seriously as two men. It's seen as kinky, experimental.....titillating, porographic even (I'm thinking of Gareth in The Office mentioning his fantasy being two women "at it" together) Somehow alot of people don't really believe in the fact of two women being in love and not needing a man; unless, that is, there is a drooling man viewing the whole thing.
Male bisexuality is taken far more seriously and is therefore more subversive.
I believe we have indeed got to the stage where exclusive homosexuality is considered fine in many ways just so long as it is just that, exclusive. There is a progress of sorts there I suppose, maybe it'll balance out with time.

There are many sides to this and it can indeed be irritating to see a clearly gay man trying to be heterosexual, for whatever reason. Just like Colin Farrell irritates by trying to come across as a street-wise working-class Dub, when he's not.

Years after Kinsey found there was far more homosexual activity among men that anyone had ever suspected, redid the survey using different methods and still got the same result; some people find the reality of the moveable feast that is human sexuality very upsetting.

Lest I be accused of not putting my cards on the table. I was gay/bisexual (whatever) 15 years ago, when I was 19/20. Had a nice time. Discovered women then, and been there ever since and prefer it - but I know for a fact it still bothers some people and that is true Michael Portillo fashion I'll forever be "Gay" in some people's beady-tabloidy little eyes.

keu · 12-09-2004 11:14pm

Personally, (and I've never had to think about it before)...but if I met a guy and after some time he told me he was bi, I would tell him to get lost pretty quickly.
I'd have no interest in having a relationship with someone who hasn't a clue on which side of the fence they stand or and wouldn't particularly fancy being a playmate catering for his sexual diversions. In such an instance I would either consider that person to be confused or selfish.

In other words, I don't care if someone is bi-sexual as long as I dont have to be a partner to it.

..does that sound prudish?

elivsvonchiaing · 12-09-2004 11:28pm

I've only got a couple of bi-friends one of which only came-out two years ago. I've no problem with it. However, a friend of mine has recently got divorced; she (the other half)- moved in with a girlfriend. If I do bump into him I could see myself agreeing "Oh yeah! It is disgusting alright!". Simply because I don't think the guy needs to be challenged on his views right now - just needs support for a while.

Principles don't always work in every instance. I guess that just about sums up diplomacy!

Just have to wonder how much perceived hatred of bis arises from my scenario.

damien · 13-09-2004 11:09am

keu wrote:

I'd have no interest in having a relationship with someone who hasn't a clue on which side of the fence they stand or and wouldn't particularly fancy being a playmate catering for his sexual diversions. In such an instance I would either consider that person to be confused or selfish.

Congratulations, I think you are the prime example of what Boston was on about.

FX Meister · 13-09-2004 12:00pm

Boston wrote:

God the hil-ar-ity of it all. .

Th-a-nks

ixoy · 13-09-2004 12:28pm

keu wrote:

Personally, (and I've never had to think about it before)...but if I met a guy and after some time he told me he was bi, I would tell him to get lost pretty quickly.
I'd have no interest in having a relationship with someone who hasn't a clue on which side of the fence they stand or and wouldn't particularly fancy being a playmate catering for his sexual diversions.

Whuh? They don't have a clue on which side of the fence they're on? Well let's examine that statement for a second. For a start, stop thinking of sexuality as always being a fundamentally binary system - homo or hetro, men or women. Not everyone sees a fence, nor should they have to.

Secondly, don't mistake bisexuality for a diversion - it's not. Is your hetrosexuality a diversion? Are boys merely a way for you to amuse yourself? Why then do you say the same about bisexuality? Bisexuality, like hetro and homosexuality, is just a loose term to describe whom you're attracted to. It is not a description of how you act on your sexuality, which is what you seem to be confusing it with. Just because a bisexual person may - or may not - be attracted to a wider range of people, is completely different to them going out and sleeping with all said people.

I think part of the problem is that people assume bisexual people are going to be attracted to twice as their hetro- and homosexual kin and that, for some reason, they're going to be compelled to act on it. That's quite an unfair assumption. Some of the most committed people in relationships are bisexual and some of the biggest sluts are hetrosexual.

In such an instance I would either consider that person to be confused or selfish.

Why? Given, as I've said, it only broadly describes who they may find attractive, how is it selfish? It's only selfish if they act on it and a straight guy is as capable of cheating as a gay or bisexual one.

In other words, I don't care if someone is bi-sexual as long as I dont have to be a partner to it.

Not in my backyard view there. Can you state why precisely you think then a bisexual man would make any less of a loving, committed partner than a straight man given what I've already said about differentiating between sexuality and acting on your sexuality?

wataru · 13-09-2004 1:28pm

For a start do you not think it is highly hypocritical to reject someone based on their sexuality when you yourself are from a group of people who in the past had to fight for acceptance, let’s face it, it’s a very self destructive notion that one way is correct and the other is aberrant behaviour.
I myself think that these days good ole stock par for the course true to their guns same sex gays feel threatened by bisexuality, they have made such a nice spot in society for themselves and the exclusivity of it goes to their heads, I mean really the whole issue of sexuality is of finding a mate isn’t it? Finding someone you can be happy with or multiple people if that’s your thing, that’s life.

damien · 13-09-2004 1:44pm

Yeah I do think bisexuality is threatening some peoples attitudes to sexuality. It's not zero-sum. I know gay guys who have these rules that they'd never date a bisexual because they couldn't trust them. Yeah and gay guys really are the yard stick when it comes to fidelity !

My father used to challenge some women he used to work with by asking this question " If your husband cheated on you would you prefer it was with a woman or a man" and all of them without exception stated "Oh with a woman, it'd be much better". He was trying to make them see that it doesn't really matter. If he cheats he cheats, the sex of the other person doesn't matter.

All this "hatred" and discrimination and ignorance directed at bisexuals is down largely to the fact that people are directing their insecurities into negativity directed towards something they fear or don't understand.

Sexuality is complicated like everything else in humanity. It might make the world a little more uniform and a good bit more bland if sexuality was so easy to define. I think that sexuality still has a long way to go before the general population understand it more. This includes the homosexuals amongst us.

Again like wataru stated it's all about finding the right person, their sex doesn't matter.

Victor · 13-09-2004 2:20pm

claire h wrote:

Then there's the "bisexual = promiscuous" school of thought, which seems to believe that being bisexual means that because you're attracted to both sexes, you must be attracted to loads of people at the same time - after all, there's twice as many people to choose from! Which is utter rubbish.

I looked at why I was "judging" bi people and while it took me a while to get to the root of it, I think it's down to the presumption that to be bisexual means you must have more than one partner, which in turn is seen as promiscuous. Of course, that presumtion isn't necessarily correct.

Of course, if two lads shag some burd at the same time they are *not* gay.*

*See Photocopier Girl episode of Friends.

Stark · 13-09-2004 2:27pm

I agree wholeheartedly with ixoy's statements.

I know gay guys who have these rules that they'd never date a bisexual because they couldn't trust them. Yeah and gay guys really are the yard stick when it comes to fidelity !

My father used to challenge some women he used to work with by asking this question " If your husband cheated on you would you prefer it was with a woman or a man" and all of them without exception stated "Oh with a woman, it'd be much better". He was trying to make them see that it doesn't really matter. If he cheats he cheats, the sex of the other person doesn't matter.

I can understand the woman's point of view in a way. If the man cheats on her with another woman then at least he was straight and she can assume that up until recently he loved her. If on the other hand he cheated on her with a man, then there's the possibility that he was gay and never ever loved her (not in the way she wanted him to anyway). The being gay bit also throws any possibility of saving their marriage out the window. I don't think women really give consideration to the middle ground, ie: bisexuality when they think of an answer to that question.

monument · 13-09-2004 2:50pm

Just pushing my self into a lad-ish mentality, for a moment – out of the group of people who think it is ok for others to be gay (just as long as gays - as such - leave them alone) - such is only true if they can identify “the gays”.

One way how this group of people identify ‘straight people’ from ‘gay people’ is seeing people going for the opposite sex. This test is some how thought as watertight, or as good as, until the word ‘bisexual’ is added to the equation – thus creating a group they cant easily identify, braking down all reason, and exposing them selves to groups they were only ‘ok’ with when such groups kept to them selves.

the_syco wrote:

It shows that there are people who are on the other side, who agree/don't mind your point/sexuality. As its a LFB forum, one may presume that everyone on it is gay (as everyone who posts on the battlefiled forum plays battlefield), but me, and a few others say we're not.
I suppose its kind of like saying "we're from the opposite team, but @ the same time, we're OK with you doing whatever you do"..

Nicely put – it’s not like there is many non-gamers hanging around any the games boards.

(and it is the Battlefield forum – it’s not a game about filing things)

qwertyphobia · 13-09-2004 6:56pm

azezil “STI's are statisically higher amoung Bi-sexual men...”

The figures for STI infection in Ireland do no differentiate between gay male and bisexual male they are all lumped into the catogtory MSM (men who have sex with men) so I don’t know where you can say that Bi men have more infections then gay men. Please explain?

qwertyphobia · 13-09-2004 7:59pm

There have been lots of good points made already particular by Claire H in looking at some of the more common beliefs about bisexuals and by Donall in showing the supposed greater acceptance of bi women up for what it is.

If some straight person makes biphobic or homophobic comments I can deal with that. Lets face it, it’s not like it’s something new but when the same comments comes from other queers it’s gets to me so much more. I just no matter how often I am proved wrong hold gays and lesbians up to higher standards then straights when it comes to this but also in the same way that it’s more hurtful to hear a negative comment from a family member then a stranger it hurts me more to hear it from fellow queers.

It can be useful to break down the myths about bisexuality further and look at the messages behind them. Most of the messages fit into the following (they are a few other categories but as they didn’t come up I will leave them to another day)

· Sexualised ones (bisexuals are sex mad bed hopping nymphos). We live in a culture which, on one hand is quite anti-sex and on the other hand is very sex centred (advertising, pop music). Homophobic and biphobic stereotypes succeed in dehumanising LGB’s by overemphasising the sexual to the exclusion of the person.

· Indecision, fence sitting, confused. This is a denial of bisexuality as a valid sexuality there is no fence to sit on between heterosexual and homosexual except in the minds of the people who rigidly divide the two. There is a spectrum of sexuality’s that runs from exclusive heterosexual to exclusive homosexual in-between there is many many shades of humanity

· Betrayal- leave me for the opposite sex may be just straight forward insecurity but may also be linked to internalised homophobia feelings of the gay/lesbian partner not truly feeling that gay relationship are as good as queer ones

· Hidden sexuality. Hiding your sexuality whether you’re gay, lesbian or bisexual has the same internal effects on a person no matter which label they are. It also shows like the other categories double standards, many gays and lesbians are not totally out but don’t get judged as harshly.

All of these techniques have been used against gays and lesbians in the past and still are used and for gays and lesbians to talk about bisexuality being a phase shows a series lack of memory.

have a few other points to make but i want to go and have me dinner now

Why do people hate Bi-Sexuals.

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