Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

1…1516182021…192

Comments

  • #852
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,537 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The N11 project can probably go at a higher rate than 5% because of the cash machine commercial element that won't be judged as state debt; 5% for this one seems about right.


  • #853
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    eugyoung wrote: »
    Hik Guy just a bit of a finance head its at 7.93 at the moment

    I think this is the first time it's dropped below 8% in quite a long time. Whether that's significant or not is another discussion entirely. I shan't drag this too off-topic, but an article:

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-aims-for-2012-bonds-entry-2887833.html


  • #854
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It is significant as is being decoupled from Club Med. I would not let off a 10 year issue at 7% all the same.


  • #855
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It is significant as is being decoupled from Club Med. I would not let off a 10 year issue at 7% all the same.

    With reference to your previous post, and providing all of that happens, do you see the realistic possibility of any "larger" PPPs such as the M17/M18 going ahead in the next 3-4 years, say? We know the Newlands/M11 has (or has had) some EIB funding to help it along which is a significant chunk of its overall price, so one would imagine it could just about squeeze through even if it had to be part-funded by the exchequer. But what do you think of the larger projects?


  • #856
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The N17/N18 is funded by the EIB to the tune of €170m ...much more than the Newlands funding. They are the only 2 road projects with EIB funding requested or indeed in place from the EIB.


  • #857
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    I am aware of that, although the outstanding funding to be made up in the M17/M18 scheme is far more than that which is required for Newlands obviously. Do you have any idea what sort of amounts can be raised on the PPP markets, say, in 6 months time if our bond yield is at 5%?


  • #858
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Nope, save that I would start small with the Schools PPP and Newlands Cross.


  • #859
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Just came across a historical summary of Irish 10 year bonds. The average 20 year price is 5.75% (including the recent peak @ 14%), with the lowest rate being 3.06%.

    The highest recent rate while we were in the bond market was 5.8% in May 2010. You'd have to go back to 98 before the yields were higher.

    So in short we need to be in or about 6% to be able to borrow again (which is about the initial bailout rate). If we were to star borrowing at that level for important projects (this and NX/M11 come to mind) the prices would probably start to drop as investor confidence returns (lots of ifs buts & maybes).


  • #860
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I see Wells Fargo bank agree with my estimation.

    https://www.wellsfargo.com/downloads/pdf/com/research/international/Ireland_09272011.pdf
    However, government bond yields in Ireland have declined significantly over the past two months or so with the yield on the 10-year government security down about 550 bps. Ireland may be slowly “de-coupling” from the rest of the European periphery.

    We still need to wait 6 months and 2 x Q on Q GDP + GNP increases though. One quarter does not a recovery make.


  • #861
    mayo23
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭mayo23


    Just a mad thought: what if everyone in ireland chipped in €3 a month for a year? That would give (4.5 million) x (3) x (12) = €162 million :rolleyes:

    I know its ludicrous and I'm not at all suggesting it should be done. Just food for thought is all :D


  • Advertisement
  • #862
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    mayo23 wrote: »
    Just a mad thought: what if everyone in ireland chipped in €3 a month for a year? That would give (4.5 million) x (3) x (12) = €162 million :rolleyes:

    I know its ludicrous and I'm not at all suggesting it should be done. Just food for thought is all :D

    Great idea except in this country, the administration would eat up at least 90% of all money collected.


  • #863
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    A lot of good news on this thread, guys. Nice to hear for a change.
    Spongey, you're uncharacteristically optimistic. A return to PPPs next year is actually better than many of us would have been hoping for. It still won't be until 2013 that we balance our budget, for example.
    mayo23 wrote: »
    Just a mad thought: what if everyone in ireland chipped in €3 a month for a year? That would give (4.5 million) x (3) x (12) = €162 million :rolleyes:
    This is also known as taxation :)


  • #864
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    spacetweek wrote: »
    This is also known as taxation :)

    We need some form of proper local taxation in this country for sure.


  • #865
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,537 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    7.6% now.


  • #866
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    7.5%


  • #867
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Spongey, you're uncharacteristically optimistic. A return to PPPs next year is actually better than many of us would have been hoping for.
    It won't be the M17/M18 PPP next year. I said I reckon they will poke the market with Schools Bundle 3 (allegedly all sorted by tomorrow say the Dept of Finance in that link :D ) and Newlands/N11 first and that will be for strategic reasons to do with managing returning market confidence as much as anything else.

    The M17/M18 looks like a 2014 or 2015 deal earliest.

    If we get a negative quarter in terms of GDP or GNP in the next 6 months all bets are off of course.


  • #868
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    I am waiting for "do motorways deliver" thread, since we all should be cycling between tuam and galway :D


  • #869
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    We need some form of proper local taxation in this country for sure.

    Well in most of the world this is covered by Property tax. Something we don't have in this country. Of course as an example in Seattle they voted to increase sales tax by 1% (within city limits) to fund the construction of light rail system to SEATAC airport.


  • #870
    LFC Murphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭LFC Murphy


    Just giving this thread a bump to keep focus on it. I check it daily and get very disheartened when it gets left in the shadows


  • Advertisement
  • #871
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    LFC Murphy wrote: »
    Just giving this thread a bump to keep focus on it. I check it daily and get very disheartened when it gets left in the shadows

    Forget about for many years to come, we haven't even got to a 'save the rare very common bog cotton or other such 'issues' stage yet.


  • #872
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    galwayrush wrote: »
    Forget about for many years to come, we haven't even got to a 'save the rare very common bog cotton or other such 'issues' stage yet.

    Wrong thread - that's the GCOB.

    AFAIK they've rehoused the bats that were the major possible ecological issue with this scheme, so funding appears to be the only issue here (latest update discussed a few weeks back).
    LFC Murphy wrote: »
    Just giving this thread a bump to keep focus on it. I check it daily and get very disheartened when it gets left in the shadows

    If you want to keep tabs on this project (apart from the national papers) keep an eye on www.galwaynews.ie & http://www.tuamherald.ie/


  • #873
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,537 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    galwayrush wrote: »
    Forget about for many years to come, we haven't even got to a 'save the rare very common bog cotton or other such 'issues' stage yet.

    Far too late for those people to get in - this scheme has planning permission.


  • #874
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    Bit surprised how nobody has commented on Roadbridge,sisk,and AIB been awarded this new tender 2 weeks ago , might start next summer according to rumors, kick-off date for sure is 2013.


  • #875
    muchos04
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭muchos04


    That's good news......might be a move on this soon so


  • #876
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I hadn't heard at all is why, any chance of a Linky Poo proving the contract award/start date ??


  • Advertisement
  • #877
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    Super


  • #878
    muchos04
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭muchos04


    What site can this tender be viewed on?


  • #879
    ilovegermany
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭ilovegermany


    moto111 wrote: »
    Bit surprised how nobody has commented on Roadbridge,sisk,and AIB been awarded this new tender 2 weeks ago , might start next summer according to rumors, kick-off date for sure is 2013.

    Are we sure about this? Or is this another "Newlands Cross is starting in September"............??:confused:


  • #880
    ki
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭ki


    moto111 wrote: »
    Bit surprised how nobody has commented on Roadbridge,sisk,and AIB been awarded this new tender 2 weeks ago , might start next summer according to rumors, kick-off date for sure is 2013.

    LINK?


  • #881
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    moto111 wrote: »
    Bit surprised how nobody has commented on Roadbridge,sisk,and AIB been awarded this new tender 2 weeks ago , might start next summer according to rumors, kick-off date for sure is 2013.

    Never heard about this. If true its great news.

    Edit: I cant find it anywhere online. So it would be good to give a source for this.


  • Advertisement
  • #882
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I suppose BAM will be kicked off Newlands Cross next ??


  • #883
    jenningso
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭jenningso


    Need a verified source for this please. No point in raising our expectations with a baseless rumour! Would be savage news if it's true........


  • #884
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Someone fire off an email to Anna Marie please. She spurns my advances these days :(


  • #885
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    moto111 wrote: »
    Bit surprised how nobody has commented on Roadbridge,sisk,and AIB been awarded this new tender 2 weeks ago , might start next summer according to rumors, kick-off date for sure is 2013.

    I'd be very surprised if this was true that none of the Galway papers have had it. It would be front page news (and make a bit of a stink at the national level too that the money isn't being spent on MN/DU).
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I suppose BAM will be kicked off Newlands Cross next ??

    If they can't raise the funds to do it they should be kicked off both NX and this project, poste haste.


    The tender for this was announced in September of last year, so it raises a question on the time allowed by tenders to take up a contract.

    Does anybody know if there's a limit on how long between the granting of a preferred tender and when a contract has to be signed?


  • #886
    spadesaspade
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭spadesaspade


    moto111 wrote: »
    Bit surprised how nobody has commented on Roadbridge,sisk,and AIB been awarded this new tender 2 weeks ago , might start next summer according to rumors, kick-off date for sure is 2013.
    Any proof of this been awarded? Cant find information anywhere?


  • #887
    fabsoul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭fabsoul


    would be great news it true


  • #888
    jenningso
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭jenningso


    I know that this probably will be annoying, but I spoke to a local politician who I happened to see this morning after reading the boards post. I asked him abou the project and he says there will be an announcment this week and good news is expected. But, he says to expect that a toll has been added to sweeten the deal for the backers, otherwise the project would not be going ahead. The debate will be whether it is north or south of Athenry........ This could have been all hammered out already for all we know. Nobody in north Galway will pay a toll to go into the city via motorway, believe me, they just won't. The big money spinner toll-wise would be somewhere on the Gort-Athenry section methinks, as they would catch more motorists already on a motorway journey. Why do we have to be so hammered with tolls heading to/from Galway:mad:


  • #889
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    No objection to a toll from me if it means that the current deathtrap road will be replaced asap.


  • #890
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    jenningso wrote: »
    I know that this probably will be annoying, but I spoke to a local politician who I happened to see this morning after reading the boards post. I asked him abou the project and he says there will be an announcment this week and good news is expected. But, he says to expect that a toll has been added to sweeten the deal for the backers, otherwise the project would not be going ahead. The debate will be whether it is north or south of Athenry........ This could have been all hammered out already for all we know. Nobody in north Galway will pay a toll to go into the city via motorway, believe me, they just won't. The big money spinner toll-wise would be somewhere on the Gort-Athenry section methinks, as they would catch more motorists already on a motorway journey. Why do we have to be so hammered with tolls heading to/from Galway:mad:

    They want everybody to move out of the west of Ireland so they can fund metro north.:rolleyes:

    On a more serious matter, if there's an ounce of truth in that it's a done deal and it'll probably be announced in/alongside the infrastructure budget that we're all waiting on.


  • #891
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Speaking to somebody at work, they said Leo was on a galway radio station this morning saying it is canned


  • Advertisement
  • #892
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Tolls on this are a very hard sell.

    North of Athenry its just too much of a diversion for Galway traffic.
    South of Athenry is too easy to dodge unless the Kiltiernan junction is removed or has south facing slips only.


  • #893
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Does anybody know if there's a limit on how long between the granting of a preferred tender and when a contract has to be signed?
    There is no limit on how long a tender remains open as long as the contractor agrees to extend the tender validity period. Tenders are usually valid for 90 days (can vary depending on what it says in the tender documents) but if the contract has not been awarded within this period, before it expires the contracting authority will send out a letter asking the contractors to extend the validity period (usually for an additional 90 days). This can happen multiple times. In this event the contract is awarded to the lowest valid tender, who may not be the lowest original tender (who may have refused to extend the validity period and are therefore disqualified). It is possible to sign a contract with SRB at this stage if they are the lowest valid tender.


  • #894
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/big-road-projects-slashed-to-spare-ministers-welfare-cuts-backlash-2928029.html
    Among the departments hardest hit will be Transport. Its allocation will fall from an expected €1.397bn to €1.221bn for 2012. Funding will fall to €900m the following year and less than €880m in 2014.

    Much of its capital budget is earmarked for projects already built. Some €200m a year is needed to maintain roads, more than €600m is needed next year to repay the cost of the motorways and local authorities typically receive about €400m to maintain and upgrade roads.

    This means there's nothing left for big-ticket items, including Metro North, the DART Underground, DART Airport link and Luas BXD -- the linking of Dublin's Luas network.

    Other department badly hit on capital project spending include Public Works (down 17pc to €100m); Defence (31pc to €9m); Foreign Affairs (down 33pc to €4m); Justice (30pc to €56m); Arts (30pc to €42m) and Children & Youth Affairs (down 27pc to €8m).

    The memo acknowledges the cuts will mean valuable engineering and construction expertise will be lost.


  • #895
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/big-road-projects-slashed-to-spare-ministers-welfare-cuts-backlash-2928029.html

    600 Million to repay the cost of the motorways?? Is that an annual fee? So much for the tolls paying the costs.


  • #896
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Mix of annual and one off, as the one offs are paid the overall budget drops. Annuals are M50, M3 and Limerick Tunnel only.

    There is perhaps €100-€150m at most for new projects per annum so I reckon the 4 year roads plan will be ( at most now)

    1. Galway Bypass
    2. Newlands/Arklow
    3. Misc M50 and M1 widening.
    4. Gort - Tuam (but perhaps only Claregalway Bypass)
    5. N22 Macroom.
    6. N5 Ballaghadereen

    And that is it. They will kill all the rest.

    In 2012 they will dismember the NRA project design teams and move them to maintenance etc.


  • #897
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Mix of annual and one off, as the one offs are paid the overall budget drops. Annuals are M50, M3 and Limerick Tunnel only.

    There is perhaps €100-€150m at most for new projects per annum so I reckon the 4 year roads plan will be ( at most)

    1. Galway Bypass
    2. Newlands/Arklow
    3. Misc M50 and M1 widening.
    4. Gort - Tuam (but perhaps only Claregalway Bypass)
    5. N22 Macroom.

    And that is it. They will kill all the rest.

    In 2012 they will dismember the NRA project design teams and move them to maintenance etc.

    You can forget about two projects being done in Galway. No way it will wash politically to have one county get that level of investment no matter what the need. Same for widening the M50 and M1. It would be political suicide outside Dublin to spend hundreds of millions adding a couple of meters to the width of the best roads in the country while the rest of the country crumbles into the ground.

    IF there are projects (and that's a big IF) they will be geographically dispersed for political reasons and my bet is they will simply dodge the issue for a couple of years and not build anything for by tying every project up in new reviews, studies and appeals. Eventually a decision will have to be made but not soon.


  • #898
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    touts wrote: »
    You can forget about two projects being done in Galway.

    I can't see GCOB being started next year anyways, as it's to be ruled on by the ECJ sometime in the first half of 2012. Then it has to go back to the supreme court for final ruling, go through tender etc etc etc (assuming the case is awarded against gormless's attack dog).

    We'll be lucky to see movement on the road before 2014 on purely procedural grounds, never mind the financial stuff.


  • #899
    black47
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    Tremelo wrote: »
    Someone fire off an email to Anna Marie please. She spurns my advances these days :(

    Spoke to someone else in NRA today. They confirmed that the Roadbridge/Sisk/AIB consortium are looking to build the scheme and trying to secure bank finding.

    Couldn't give a timescale but were confident that the scheme will go ahead...

    Might be some indication after the fiscal publications tomorrow.


  • #900
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    touts wrote: »
    You can forget about two projects being done in Galway. No way it will wash politically to have one county get that level of investment no matter what the need. Same for widening the M50 and M1. It would be political suicide outside Dublin to spend hundreds of millions adding a couple of meters to the width of the best roads in the country while the rest of the country crumbles into the ground.
    What makes you think people in other parts of the country would even know the M1 was being widened? Unlikely.

    It'll be grand.


  • Advertisement
  • #901
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    touts wrote: »
    You can forget about two projects being done in Galway. No way it will wash politically to have one county get that level of investment no matter what the need.

    I thought so too.
    But @endacunningham has tweeted about 1 hour ago(He's a journalist for the Connacht / Galway City Tribune) that its going ahead.


    RT @endacunningham Gort to Tuam Motorway & #Galway City Outer Bypass to survive savage Govt cuts. See Trib tmrw


Advertisement