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News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

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Comments

  • #1552
    The Durutti Column
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 274 ✭✭The Durutti Column


    Everyone knows that Sispar have stated they "intend" to complete the development.

    They told GUBOH that last June. They have said it at Town Council meetings. They have said it at Harbour Liaison Committee meetings.

    It's amazing that Derek thinks this is news.

    It's also amazing that the man who signed the contract on behalf of Wicklow County Council does not seem to know that the same WCC have given Sispar a free pass to double the construction time.

    I say free pass intentionally — it's a free pass because WCC did not seek anything in return for this. On the contrary, they gave away the community amenities we were supposed to get, the very raison d'etre for having a Public Private Partnership in the first place and which Derek is always boasting about, even though he seems not to care how long it takes to deliver them.

    They just gave it. They did not negotiate, they did not say to Sispar "OK, guys, we will give you an extension, but you have to finish Phase 1 first".

    The extension was given in mid-2010, two years ago, which is why people began to notice signs of Sispar mothballing the site once the harbour itself was complete — without Phase 1 being finished.

    What is left of P1 to finish? The clubhouses, public square and related aspects, and the marina.

    WCC could have got all this in place in return for the extra five years. Then we would all have been happy. Nobody except Sispar would have cared if the housing and offices were completed in 2017 or 2127 or never. There would have been no GUBOH, no pesky citizens annoying hard-working public representatives such as Derek with their whingeing and complaining.

    But Derek didn't know!

    I believe that too.

    Because WCC and Sispar, partners in the PPP, concealed this dirty deal from the public, from two Mayors, from the Town Council, from the HLC, and from the County Councillors and TDs who have tried to move this matter along since the foundation of GUBOH. At every juncture, they spoke of matters as if the original schedule was still in place but just a little delayed (as in, taking twice as long as planned) and that only the funding problem or NAMA prevented progress.

    To the residents of the harbour area, to GUBOH, to the Town Council, to the Harbour Users Group — to everyone, they have displayed total bad faith and employed gross deception to conceal what they had actually done.

    Derek needs to take a hard look at what Sispar and WCC have done, and his own role as their local flag-waver and cheerleader.

    And it was two members of GUBOH who dug the facts of this situation out of the annual reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

    Anybody still think GUBOH is a waste of space?


  • #1553
    The Durutti Column
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 274 ✭✭The Durutti Column


    mango salsa wrote: »
    At least here you identified mods that you can gripe about and at ;)

    Quite so, Mango. And if it ever comes to that, there is also a clear and fairly quick appeal procedure. You should see the email chain involved in the Byzantine procedures of FB, with its 'customer assistance' nerds extremely well trained in the arts of missing the point and obfuscation.


  • #1554
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    I've learnt much about local politics in the last 12 months but probably the most significant is that they inwardly rely upon research and opinion of genuinely hard working members of the public concerned about specific civic issues.

    What is both frustrating and amusing, is that they will purport to take action on complaints made by Joe or Jane public, but really do nothing, and certainly never follow up. They generally move like collective treacle rolling down hill with no individual maverick taking lead on a particular issue. However, once they learn about facts supported by research and have a bibliography to tie their point to, then they take action [sometimes forthright action].

    This is why Boards is so important to getting the message out. If we learn to provide the research that the Public Representatives appear to struggle in finding themselves, then they will take action themselves.

    The amusing part, is that when they take full ownership they forget who did the hard work! Anyway, I find it frustratingly amusing, but so long as we get to where the matter ought to be, I don't care who takes the chequered flag just so long as someone gets over the finish line!!!!!


  • #1555
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    Cheeky Chops wrote: »
    For ****'s sake. This is criminal.

    I'm close to despondency. I hate going near the place the devastation is so apparent.

    Well if we ever needed a picture postcard to exemplify the abhorrent greed that has ripped this country to pieces than that is it.

    Certain Councilors have made very firm press releases that are not after the picture postcard element of the new harbour, its simply not important to him or the people that elected him???? perhaps???


  • #1556
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    I am fed up with saying it. Will GUBOH call a public meeting?


  • #1557
    Maudi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Maudi


    The Durutti Column wrote: »
    Just to add: the same letter from Sean Quirke of WCC to Bord Pleanala stated that the last beach survey took place in 2010. Another obligation abandoned — beach surveys were mandated to take place at six months intervals initially and then annually.

    So, no beach survey in 2011, none so far in 2012, no fresh nourishment placed despite announcing it via Cllr Hayden, erosion increasing at a dangerous rate. And WCC and Sispar walk away. Great!!

    What do their cheerleaders have to say? Either nothing at all, or that everything is fine and NAMA will fund the health centre — which has no planning permission yet! These people need to wake up and smell the coffee...
    itl be more than coffee that they will be smelling when the old dump is exposed..you can only imagine what will be washed out from it...+when i was down there was a constant trickle and falls of bits of stone...its dangerous...and an accident waiting to happen...the make upof the soil is mostly sand and gravel mixed with marley type clay...if it was along a road ....the road would be closed....f.f.s thousands was spent along the cliff walk to contain less material from falling..mark my words..


  • #1558
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    mirekb wrote: »
    Do we need GUBOH to call the meeting? We could have a meeting where all groups were invited to discuss it and that would take the pressure off there being an agenda from either side.

    Hi, because they are in a position to call for one. I don't believe they have any agenda other than getting this mess sorted out. Yes it has got political but that is because of the incompetence of WCC and the utter arrogance and contempt shown by certain public representatives. GUBOH are in the perfect position to call a public meeting that, imo, will be supported by the people of the Wicklow. I can't call one, if I could I would!


  • #1559
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    F3 wrote: »
    Dear John,

    I understand your views, and agree that a GUBOH public meeting might be appropriate at some point soon, but feel I must correct your facts. The view about GUBOH being a small minority of disgruntled residents has been taken essentially by only one Town Councilor, not Wicklow County Councilors and not Government Ministers.(and thus not all elected public representatives as your blog portrays) GUBOH has now raised their reasonable requests (that have been well publicised over the last 12 months) to Wicklow County Councilor level and to TD level. GUBOH is a Facebook group of concerned members of the community, their support has been constant and communications consistent. GUBOH do not need to sing from the tree tops to gain credibility, GUBOH have provided and publicised a list of reasonable requests, nothing more and nothing less. GUBOH are not politicians GUBOH are not looking for your vote. If you agree with what GUBOH want then that's fantastic, if you want something more or less, then write to whomever you feel needs to hear your views and to make the changes you require to what's going on. The leading voices in GUBOH are well informed ordinary people, who have taken their own time to put their views and the views of their members across to those that have the power to implement change. They are not looking to sell an idea or manifesto to gain support. As a GUBOH member, you can always put your point across about what you want and it will be discussed debated and put forward as a GUBOH requirement if agreed and consented to be reasonable. You can do this publically, or privately and most of our members choose to contact the leaders privately. If any of you wish to speak with the leaders of GUBOH let me know and I could arrange a meeting for you to discuss you views and questions. PM me in this regard. Please don't feel that GUBOH are elected public reps as they are not. GUBOH is a group of people of 800 Facebook members and over 2,500 signatories that have strong views based upon common sense and fairness to all in the community. GUBOH are not against the development, and never have been. GUBOH's only demand is that whilst the market is waiting to recover, Sispar need to implant whatever actions are necessary to make Greytones a destination town once more, and give a proper amenity back to the people of Greystones. I hope this goes some of the way to explaining what GUBOH is. GUBOH have made great progress over the past 12 months and have a achieved significant milestone recently with the support of the key public representatives in Wicklow.

    I feel that time is getting closer to call a public meeting, but if we can wait a little longer to allow the TD's to do their job. Steven Donnelly, Simon Harris and Anne Ferris are all demanding answers from Eddie Seedy ( County Manager ) and Sean Quirks ( director of services in charge of the harbour) as we speak. If they fail to right this issue in early course, Then i feel no more GUBOH blue banners, it's GUBOH Red banners and public protest, and national media cover to save our town! Believe me there will be public meetings and plenty of them.


  • #1560
    mirekb
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭mirekb


    EDIT: F3 got in there first!
    Cheeky Chops wrote: »
    Hi, because they are in a position to call for one. I don't believe they have any agenda other than getting this mess sorted out. Yes it has got political but that is because of the incompetence of WCC and the utter arrogance and contempt shown by certain public representatives. GUBOH are in the perfect position to call a public meeting that, imo, will be supported by the people of the Wicklow. I can't call one, if I could I would!

    Sorry, I didn't mean to sound negative by using the word 'agenda'. I just meant that if we really wanted a meeting we could have one. The GUBOH people are all working incredibly hard (and voluntarily) and deserve to be heard fairly. If they organise a meeting some people may use it as an excuse to make them into the problem. If someone else does then it becomes open and 'GUBOH AGAINST WCC' can't be made the issue. GUBOH can't be turned (unfairly) into the aggressors as I believe they are being now.

    Of course if GUBOH want to have a meeting then I will be there to cheer them on. They haven't had one yet and are in danger of losing support because they may start to be perceived as another closed group unwilling to deal with public participation - which I don't believe is true.


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  • #1561
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    mirekb wrote: »
    EDIT: F3 got in there first!



    Sorry, I didn't mean to sound negative by using the word 'agenda'. I just meant that if we really wanted a meeting we could have one. The GUBOH people are all working incredibly hard (and voluntarily) and deserve to be heard fairly. If they organise a meeting some people may use it as an excuse to make them into the problem. If someone else does then it becomes open and 'GUBOH AGAINST WCC' can't be made the issue. GUBOH can't be turned (unfairly) into the aggressors as I believe they are being now.

    Of course if GUBOH want to have a meeting then I will be there to cheer them on. They haven't had one yet and are in danger of losing support because they may start to be perceived as another closed group unwilling to deal with public participation - which I don't believe is true.


    See my last comment mirekb


  • #1562
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    F3 wrote: »
    Guys, I understand your points of view, but I do not wish to put myself out there in a public contest. Please believe me when I tell you that I make all my points directly. I've no political aspirations nor do I look for recognition in what I do. This thread has been viewed 127,000 times and often upto 400 views per day. Alot of people keep themselves informed of this matter via boards. GUBOH has 800 members on its FB group, but it also has 3,000+ signatures from town people supporting our cause. not everyone has a face book page, boards is more accessible and far less complicated than Facebook.

    Do not underestimate the value of this thread in reaching out to a wider audience.

    Since this post on the 26th April ( 7 days ago ) this thread has been
    viewed 3,000 times


  • #1563
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    F3 wrote: »
    I feel that time is getting closer to call a public meeting, but if we can wait a little longer to allow the TD's to do their job. Steven Donnelly, Simon Harris and Anne Ferris are all demanding answers from Eddie Seedy ( County Manager ) and Sean Quirks ( director of services in charge of the harbour) as we speak. If they fail to right this issue in early course, Then i feel no more GUBOH blue banners, it's GUBOH Red banners and public protest, and national media cover to save our town! Believe me there will be public meetings and plenty of them.

    Freudian slip but it is Eddie Sheehy. :P


  • #1564
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    Cheeky Chops wrote: »
    Freudian slip but it is Eddie Sheehy. :P

    Oh, I thought he was Seedy


  • #1565
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Hi folks

    The mods have had some feedback about this thread going completely off topic.This thread is about the harbour in Greystones - Not coastal erosion in Greystones or Bray - Obviously some people feel that they are connected however discussion of the harbour is now getting completely lost. I would suggest that if you want to discuss coastal erosion starting a new thread

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1566
    LEIN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Hi folks

    The mods have had some feedback about this thread going completely off topic.This thread is about the harbour in Greystones - Not coastal erosion in Greystones or Bray - Obviously some people feel that they are connected however discussion of the harbour is now getting completely lost. I would suggest that if you want to discuss coastal erosion starting a new thread


    Erosion Thread :)

    Posts have been moved from this thread to the new thread.







    If there are any issues please PM mango salsa or myself and we will be glad to help.


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  • #1567
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    7143047079_0d08ac94b1_z.jpg
    Greystones Harbour 4th. May 2012 (1) by pixbyjohn, on Flickr


  • #1568
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    7143059679_58a3d5382d_z.jpg
    Greystones Harbour 4th. May 2012 (4) by pixbyjohn, on Flickr


  • #1569
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    6996967270_e566670bfc_z.jpg
    Greystones Harbour 4th. May 2012 (3) by pixbyjohn, on Flickr


  • #1570
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    6996967270_e566670bfc_z.jpg
    Greystones Harbour 4th. May 2012 (3) by pixbyjohn, on Flickr


    Just where we used to paddle and swim. It was full of families having fun. Now there is a fella cleaning a concrete jungle with no one there.


  • #1571
    micandre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭micandre


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Hi folks

    The mods have had some feedback about this thread going completely off topic.This thread is about the harbour in Greystones - Not coastal erosion in Greystones or Bray - Obviously some people feel that they are connected however discussion of the harbour is now getting completely lost. I would suggest that if you want to discuss coastal erosion starting a new thread
    Hello,

    Given this thread is so large, would it help to have a sub discussion under Greystones & Charlesland, i.e. Harbour & Coast?

    Going forward there is a great deal of interest in the harbour, cliff erosion, clubs, beach, cliff walks.

    What needs to happen for this to take place?


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  • #1572
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    micandre wrote: »
    Hello,

    Given this thread is so large, would it help to have a sub discussion under Greystones & Charlesland, i.e. Harbour & Coast?
    No need. It is a separate thread within Greystones & Charlesland anyway.


  • #1573
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    By moving the erosion to the north cliffs topic out of this thread is an attempt to disconnect it somewhat from its link to the new Harbour. Erosion of the north beach is news, there are views in respect to same, and it is connected to the completion of the new Harbour. I think the thread should remain here.

    Where do you stop? Can we talk about the erosion to the green fencing already on the pier in this thread or will have to start another?


  • #1574
    LEIN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    F3 wrote: »
    By moving the erosion to the north cliffs topic out of this thread is an attempt to disconnect it somewhat from its link to the new Harbour. Erosion of the north beach is news, there are views in respect to same, and it is connected to the completion of the new Harbour. I think the thread should remain here.


    As it is just speculation that the Greystones harbour development is the reason for the erosion, it is a separate topic.
    The new thread has been started on the speculation that includes the Bray erosion.
    F3 wrote: »

    Where do you stop? Can we talk about the erosion to the green fencing already on the pier in this thread or will have to start another?

    That can be discussed in the new erosion thread that i linked to a few posts up.

    Off topic posts are being removed.

    Please use the PM function for moderation comments.


  • #1575
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    This thread is by far the most viewed in the region. This is because of the contributors, nothing else.


  • #1576
    LEIN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    F3 wrote: »
    This thread is by far the most viewed in the region. This is because of the contributors, nothing else.

    That's not an issue and long may it last. :)


  • #1577
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    7153814505_d5e8ae2940_z.jpg
    What chemical is being used ?


  • #1578
    LEIN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    7153814505_d5e8ae2940_z.jpg
    What chemical is being used ?

    Looks harsh due to the PPE that is being used.

    Is that the harmful to the environment chemical symbol on the blue container?


  • #1579
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    F3 wrote: »
    This thread is by far the most viewed in the region. This is because of the contributors, nothing else.

    Well I got a warning and then infraction for posting so my voice is not going to be loud. :confused:


  • #1580
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    It's the corrosive hazchem label.

    The workman doesn't appear to be wearing any goggles or breathing apparatus though. Possibly already diluted. It may be to stop the slipway becoming slippy, but without sight of the label any guess at the contents is just that.

    My 2c on the split of the threads (mods may delete if they so wish): separating out the threads affords two focussed discussions on separate but related matters. Those who feel strongly on the amenity of.the harbour and its development have this thread. Those who want to discuss the erosion, likely causes and how it is addressed have a separate thread. No doubt there will be cross posting and.overlap, but those who care about both issues will read and post in both.


  • #1581
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    It's the corrosive hazchem label.

    The workman doesn't appear to be wearing any goggles or breathing apparatus though. Possibly already diluted. It may be to stop the slipway becoming slippy, but without sight of the label any guess at the contents is just that.

    My 2c on the split of the threads (mods may delete if they so wish): separating out the threads affords two focussed discussions on separate but related matters. Those who feel strongly on the amenity of.the harbour and its development have this thread. Those who want to discuss the erosion, likely causes and how it is addressed have a separate thread. No doubt there will be cross posting and.overlap, but those who care about both issues will read and post in both.

    Regardless of the validity of your post Mike, I bet you do not receive a warning on pm. If I posted it I would have. Some of us seem to be singled out. Yes next warning accepted mods.


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  • #1582
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    It's the corrosive hazchem label.

    The workman doesn't appear to be wearing any goggles or breathing apparatus though. Possibly already diluted. It may be to stop the slipway becoming slippy, but without sight of the label any guess at the contents is just that.

    .

    Well it doesnt work! That surface is extremely slippery!


  • #1583
    F3
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭F3


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Hi folks

    The mods have had some feedback about this thread going completely off topic.This thread is about the harbour in Greystones - Not coastal erosion in Greystones or Bray - Obviously some people feel that they are connected however discussion of the harbour is now getting completely lost. I would suggest that if you want to discuss coastal erosion starting a new thread


    Thr erosion is not "completely off thread" it is very much at the epicentre of this entire thread, and I request that you allow it back. If the harbour works were completed and the community were having no problems, then this thread would not have the traffic it does. This thread is thriving because unfortunately the project is in trouble. Very serious trouble. The erosion on the north beach was expected by the experts and it was a term of the planning permission granted for the project to go ahead that 30,000 m3 of stone shingle must be placed to combat the initial effects of erosion after the new breakwaters were built. This was to protect the environment. After that upto 6000m3 of single is to be placed annually there after. I calculate that 42,000 M3 of single ought to have been placed by Sispar. They only placed 10,000M3 in 2008. (I estimate the cost to Sispar in complying with this condition at €500,000+) These are facts. This single thread allows all problems associated with the cessation of works at the harbour due to economic difficulties to be reported. The reluctance by Sispar to continue funding the project is causing amoungst other problems fir the community, a significant environmental disaster. This was warned by the experts before works commenced, and it eas mandatory for them to do it. They have decided not to and the public need to know this. We need a central thread to quote from historical posts on such very important issues. By you splitting the thread, this cannot be done. The "some feedback" you received, please get them to PM me. If they would like I will meet them personally to discuss the scale of the problems with the harbour and the importance of having such matters teased out on this thread. This is not about moderating, this is about really understanding the value of having all such topics discussed in the one place. I appeal to you return the posts you have removed and allow this very very relevant matter, be discussed on this thread. I urge you to meet internally on this issue. I will agreed meet all moderators to discuss this issue. Please return the status quo. Regards F3


  • #1584
    The Durutti Column
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 274 ✭✭The Durutti Column


    DD9090 wrote: »
    As it is just speculation that the Greystones harbour development is the reason for the erosion, it is a separate topic.
    The new thread has been started on the speculation that includes the Bray erosion.

    That can be discussed in the new erosion thread that i linked to a few posts up.

    It is not speculation. It is a fact, and was thoroughly explored at the ABP oral hearings. Experts both for and against stated categorically that construction of the breakwaters would dramatically increase erosion at the North Beach and cliffs.

    The breakwaters alter the marine topography so significantly that WCC and Sispar's experts proposed the 30,000 m3 initial beach nourishment to be followed by 6,000 m3 per year merely to contain cliff erosion to below the historic datum of 600mm per year.

    That is on the record. If I am able to find it, read it, and quote it, then so should the mods rather than making such an ill-informed comment and basing the split threads decision on it. The evidence is there, and you guys are going against it.

    In due course I will submit my arguments, with supporting evidence, to the appeals procedure.


  • #1585
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    There is a motion being put to the meeting of wicklow county council next Monday (14th May) calling on the County Manager to ask Sispar to landscape the building site. This meeting is in Wicklow and is open to the public.


  • #1586
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    Who is putting this motion forward Fiachra ?


  • #1587
    The Durutti Column
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 274 ✭✭The Durutti Column


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    Who is putting this motion forward Fiachra ?


    I hear it is Grainne McLoughlin. The meeting starts at 2.00pm at the county buildings opposite the Coral Leisure Centre on the northern outhskirts of Wicklow town.

    It would be good for some of those who want to see such measures implemented to be present to support her and whoever is seconding.


  • #1588
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    The Durutti Column wrote: »
    I hear it is Grainne McLoughlin. The meeting starts at 2.00pm at the county buildings opposite the Coral Leisure Centre on the northern outhskirts of Wicklow town.

    It would be good for some of those who want to see such measure to be present to support her and whoever is seconding.

    Well done Grainne. I would love to attend but the timing is impossible.

    Everything I have posted recently has been deleted so I am hesitant to post anymore. :(


  • #1589
    darter
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭darter


    Cheeky Chops wrote: »
    Well done Grainne. I would love to attend but the timing is impossible.

    Everything I have posted recently has been deleted so I am hesitant to post anymore. :(

    Agreed on both counts....


  • #1590
    LEIN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,936 ✭✭✭LEIN


    I don't understand why there is so much surprise and shock about deleted posts!?
    Off topic posting is against the forum charter and repeated offenders will receive infractions.


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  • #1591
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    Who is putting this motion forward Fiachra ?

    The motion is in the names of Grainne McLoughlin and George Jones. It will have the full support of Tom Fortune. So three of four local councillors will support the motion and it is to be hoped that the fouth (Derek Mitchell) will not oppose it.

    With that level of support it has a very realistic chance of being passed. The only opposition will probably be from the county manager who wont want to comply.


  • #1592
    snowman224
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭snowman224


    Excuse my ignorance but why would anyone oppose or not support this motion?


  • #1593
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    snowman224 wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance but why would anyone oppose or not support this motion?

    A number of local public representatives have held the view that there is no need to tidy up the area or to open the harbour to the public. At a recent town council meeting three of the members voted against a similar motion. In summary their view is that:
    • The harbour is substantially complete. This represents a huge gain for the people of Greystones and they should be satisfied and not want any more.
    • The developer has lost his shirt on the project and the people of Greystones should have pity for him and not require him to spend any more money.
    • The project is a work in progress and will be finished in due course (albeit that might be quite a few years). We should all be patient

    Examples of the thinking can be found here
    http://www.greystonesguide.ie/harbour-developers-intend-to-complete-development/

    and here
    http://www.greystonesguide.ie/hayden-criticises-gpdaguboh-for-yet-another-long-list-of-insatiable-demands/

    The project manager on Wicklow county Council would appear to share these views. At a recent harbour liaison committee meeting he reacted very angrily to a question from a member of GUBOH asking how long the Council were prepared to leave the harbour in its present unsightly condition.

    The rationale behind this position seems somehat bizarre to most of us but they hold it nontheless


  • #1594
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Live captioning here

    http://www.seewritenow.ie/Data.aspx

    http://www.wicklow.ie/apps/wicklowbeta/Accessibility/Caption.aspx

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1595
    snowman224
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭snowman224


    Thanks for the answer Fiachra.
    I wouldn't be terribly sympathetic towards that opinion but I guess they're entitled to it.
    Hopefully Grainne gets a result today.


  • #1596
    The Durutti Column
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 274 ✭✭The Durutti Column


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Live captioning here

    http://www.seewritenow.ie/Data.aspx

    http://www.wicklow.ie/apps/wicklowbeta/Accessibility/Caption.aspx

    That worked very efficiently. I couldn't see a thing...


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  • #1597
    The Durutti Column
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 274 ✭✭The Durutti Column


    snowman224 wrote: »
    Thanks for the answer Fiachra.
    I wouldn't be terribly sympathetic towards that opinion but I guess they're entitled to it.
    Hopefully Grainne gets a result today.

    They never even reached the item on the agenda... But it's back on next month's agenda. Gives some time to lobby CCs.


  • #1598
    The Durutti Column
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 274 ✭✭The Durutti Column


    The Durutti Column wrote: »
    They never even reached the item on the agenda... But it's back on next month's agenda. Gives some time to lobby CCs.


    Yeah, well here's a comment from the GUBOH FB page I simply must share with you and endorse:
    What has been so frustrating over the last 13 months is the utter lack of urgency displayed by Sispar, WCC officials and the rest.

    This time last year we asked Sispar/WCC to show a bit of 'Yes, we can' and get the harbour open to the public for the summer. Did they get their rear in gear? NO! It was 'No, we can't'.

    The harbour did not open until Guy Fawkes Day.

    Last January the Mayor of this town asked them to come to the next Harbour Liaison Committee meeting with a Plan B to provide more improvements and get more amenities for the community and for visitors.

    He said, rightly, that we had been waiting long enough for the word from NAMA, word that might never come, and that it was high time an interim, temporary plan for landscaping the ghost site was implemented.

    Mayor Fortune specifically asked that this be prepared so the work could be done for summer 2012.

    Did WCC and Sispar spring into action? NO. They ignored him.

    It had to go to a Town Council meeting, in March, when the councillors, to give them credit where it's due, voted 6 to 3 to send a list of proposals to Sispar.

    Did Sispar reply with alacrity? NO.

    They proposed to come and speak to the councillors at this month's meeting on 29 May, TWO WHOLE MONTHS later and a few days before the school holidays start and well into summer already.

    So now we have an urgent resolution postponed to June at Wicklow Co Co level, and Sispar turning up, with or without Plan B, five months after they were asked for a Plan B.

    I could say something very rude and very heartfelt about these people — but I won't...


  • #1599
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    The Durutti Column wrote: »
    They never even reached the item on the agenda... But it's back on next month's agenda. Gives some time to lobby CCs.

    You don't need to lobby me I am in agreement! :p

    Seriously, this has gone past a farce.

    Shame on our local government. Shame on the people WE elected to represent US.


  • #1600
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    Letter in yesterdays Wicklow Times


    Dear Madam,

    Coastcare is an international organisation, affiliated to Tidy Towns and An Taisce and I am the local Coastcare representative.

    The Council and Sispar waxed lyrical in last week's Wicklow Times. In fact. not fiction, the harbour development has been a disaster for Greystones - whereas formerly it was possible to walk easily to the North beach, and for children to fish from the harbour wall, there is now a kilometre-long, concentration camp-like walk to reach the North beach. There it will be found that the character of the cliff has been destroyed for a considerable distance and replaced by an unsightly heap of rocks - destroying the former nesting site of the sandmartin which had been displaced just prior to Bray Head.

    The 'development' has destroyed the flowering sites of two rare plants - the sand leek and the sea cabbage - and the rest of the flowers that formerly bloomed along the beach.

    To add to this destruction, it is no longer possible to approach the beach via the site of the former gap bridge. It is extremely perilous to attempt the present approach unless one is an intrepid youngster. The only people who have benefited from this development are members of the boat club and there's still no date available as to when the marina will be opened - this year; next year; sometime; never...

    Yours sincerely,

    Ken Baker (Emeritus Professor)


  • #1601
    Fiachra2
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fiachra2


    Sispar will attend the Town Council meeting on Tuesday 29th May in the Town Council offices at 7.30.

    It will be an opportunity to hear how they propose to respond to the mounting pressure on them from the public representatives as well as the general public to restore the harbour area.

    For those interested in this matter it would be a good idea to attend. If nothing else the last meeting was entertaining!


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