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is atheism religion?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Thats really what I'm saying. Many atheists wear their label like a religious person wears theirs, and tend to resemble the religious in their fervour. That doesn't change the meaning of atheism, but it does call in to question the reality of what it becomes to people who label themselves as one.

    It doesn't, at all. Atheism doesn't become something else just because atheists can be assertive or fervourent. They are not (necessarily) assertive or fervourent because they lack belief in god and they don't (necessarily) lack belief becuase they are assertive or fervourent. Just like how "vegetarian" just means "don't eat meat" regardless of how many vegetarians join PETA, atheism is simply a lack of belief, regardless of what atheists do or don't as a result of that lack of belief.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    It doesn't, at all. Atheism doesn't become something else just because atheists can be assertive or fervourent. They are not (necessarily) assertive or fervourent because they lack belief in god and they don't (necessarily) lack belief becuase they are assertive or fervourent. Just like how "vegetarian" just means "don't eat meat" regardless of how many vegetarians join PETA, atheism is simply a lack of belief, regardless of what atheists do or don't as a result of that lack of belief.

    Again, I'm not getting into the semantics of the word. I know what it means. I'm only observing the religiosity of atheists. It seems that when people decide to self identify as atheist, there are common traits that go beyond the commonality of non-belief.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Again, I'm not getting into the semantics of the word. I know what it means. I'm only observing the religiosity of atheists. It seems that when people decide to self identify as atheist, there are common traits that go beyond the commonality of non-belief.

    Yeah, but that means that there can be more to self labeling as "atheist" than simple lack of belief , not that there is more to atheism than a simple lack of belief, which is what the thread is about.

    Atheism is not a religion, it is simply a lack of belief, much like how non stamp collecting is not a hobby. However, non stamp collectors don't have to deal with stamp collector groups in facets of society they have no place being in, so (a) non stamp collectors don't have any reason to even talk to stamp collectors about it, never mind be assertive about non-stamp collecting and (b) they don't even need to self label as "non-stamp collector".

    I agree that atheists can be the same as the religious - they can evangelical and fervourent. But that is not simply a result of their atheism. Its because the environment they are in results in them being that way (or because that's simply the type of person they are).


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    JimiTime wrote: »
    Which is why the not collecting stamps etc is such a poor analogy. Atheism is like the exception to the rule.
    Not really. Atheism basically means an absence of a belief in one or more deities.

    What happens over in A+A if you take a look breaks down roughly into the following headings:
    • People laughing at the silly things religious people do because of their religion
    • People getting upset at the nasty things religious people do because of their religion
    • People discussing other interesting topics, posting interesting news clips etc
    • People having a laugh in general
    Where religion is there at all, the common thread amongst all of these is the human element of religion. I can't recall a single discussion -- indeed the idea is really quite silly -- of people discussing how strongly they feel the absence of the one or more deity figures which they don't believe exist, and almost certainly wouldn't "worship" even they did.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭hivizman


    Well, it looks like we have established (as if this was needed) that atheism is not religion, and the fact that some atheists defend their position forcefully, like the way that some adherents of specific religions defend their positions forcefully, doesn't turn atheism into a religion.

    In an earlier post in this thread, I linked to a talk "Rational Discourse on Islam and Atheism" given by a Muslim speaker who often appears on YouTube, Hamza Tzortzis. Having watched the video in detail, I was struck by the extent to which his arguments in favour of Islam were similar to those put forward by Christians.

    Tzortzis tries to establish three propositions using logical arguments:

    1. The existence of God
    2. The status of the Qur'an as the revelation of God
    3. The status of Muhammad as God's final prophet and messenger.

    For proposition 1, Tzortzis mobilises the Cosmological Argument and the Argument from Design. The Cosmological Argument takes the form of establishing (or asserting) that the Universe had a beginning, that everything that has a beginning must have had a cause, so the Universe had a cause, and to avoid an infinite regress, there must have been a First Cause, which is identified as God. The Argument from Design focuses on "fine tuning" - the minuscule probability that the central physical constants underpinning and making possible a universe in which human life is viable would have turned out as they are, which is taken to imply, using "inference to the best explanation", that the universe could not have come about through chance, and hence must have been created through divine design. These arguments have been rebutted many times.

    Tzortzis defends the status of the Qur'an as revelation by identifying statements made in the Qur'an that are now regarded as scientific or historical fact but that could not have been known at the time of its revelation. There was a long thread on this forum about 18 months ago where this approach was debated in detail.

    I was really surprised to find Tzortzis defending Muhammad's prophethood using the old "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" argument used by many Christian apologists to support claims reported in the New Testament about Jesus. Tzortzis argues that the reported facts of Muhammad's life make it impossible to assert that he was a deliberate liar, and that the emergence, growth and success of Islam as a religion disprove the claim that Muhammad was deluded. So all that is left is the position that he must indeed have been a prophet. But it is hard to use the "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" argument to defend the status of Muhammad while at the same time denying the prophethood of, say, Joseph Smith - after all, he was prepared to die for his beliefs and was actually killed for what he believed, and Mormonism has not been without success as a religion.

    Tzortzis finished off for good measure by claiming the necessity of God to justify morality.

    It's not surprising that Tzortzis's "rational defence of Islam" is so like "rational arguments for Christianity", because leading Christian thinkers such as Thomas Aquinas took many of the standard arguments for the existence of God from Muslim thinkers such as Ibn Sina (Avicenna) and Ibn Rushd (Averroes).

    I'll continue my search for a distinctive Islamic critique of atheism, so if anyone knows of one, please contribute to the thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    hivizman wrote: »
    In an earlier post in this thread, I linked to a talk "Rational Discourse on Islam and Atheism" given by a Muslim speaker who often appears on YouTube, Hamza Tzortzis.

    I thought I recognised his name, there was a thread on the A&A forum a while back about his debate with Michael Nugent (Atheist Ireland) in UCD February 2011 (I believe he had a number of debates in universities around Ireland at the time). I didn't make the actual debate, but it was recorded and put online.
    I talked about Hamza's points in this post, but he mainly sticks to point 1, as you describe it, hivizman, in the debate (ie he was more driving towards the existence of a general monotheistic god, he was light on specific reasons for the muslim god).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭hivizman


    I talked about Hamza's points in this post, but he mainly sticks to point 1, as you describe it, hivizman, in the debate (ie he was more driving towards the existence of a general monotheistic god, he was light on specific reasons for the muslim god).

    Thanks for this - we obviously had a similar reaction to what must have been the same line of argument. From a quick flip through some of Hamza Tzortzis's other YouTube videos, I get the sense that he has done a crash course in arguments for the existence of a monotheistic god and has been largely "preaching to the converted" by going round university Islamic Societies where he is unlikely to face much of a challenge. He could just as easily have been a Christian apologist as a Muslim one. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭beerbuddy


    I think that this form lacks is a definition of religion and without an agreed definition the rest is moot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    Atheism isn't a religion, nor is theism.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78952980&postcount=827
    hence it is proved

    Atheism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion... they are also deeply committed to their religious beliefs.. Closing threads--- banning people.. These are clear proof.... It doesn't matter to what extent you may deny... ... Religion is a difficult thing to define... These people seem fail to defend their religious belief and at last.. The protectors and guardians of this religion has no choice except you know what i mean... Every action you do has a reason and I am here to explain all kind of these reason.. i am not a ordinary human.. I can see what you can't see... This is very exact purpose why i had posted this thread here... I knew what would happened in A&A foram..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78952980&postcount=827
    hence it is proved

    Atheism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion... they are also deeply committed to their religious beliefs.. Closing threads--- banning people.. These are clear proof.... It doesn't matter to what extent you may deny... ... Religion is a difficult thing to define... These people seem fail to defend their religious belief and at last.. The protectors and guardians of this religion has no choice except you know what i mean... Every action you do has a reason and I am here to explain all kind of these reason.. i am not a ordinary human.. I can see what you can't see... This is very exact purpose why i had posted this thread here... I knew what would happened in A&A foram..

    Yes dead one, that thread was closed because atheism is a religion, nothing to do with the OP of that thread having at least one sock-puppeting account closed or poster after poster logging onto the A&A forum to jump in the thread after 10/15/20 pages of posts, to simply declare atheism a religion all the while ignoring every point in every other post explaining how clearly false a notion that is :rolleyes:.

    There isn't a single point on that A&A thread, from those who claimed that atheism is a religion, that isn't debunked by the posts in this thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    dead one wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78952980&postcount=827
    hence it is proved

    Atheism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion... they are also deeply committed to their religious beliefs.. Closing threads--- banning people.. These are clear proof.... It doesn't matter to what extent you may deny... ... Religion is a difficult thing to define... These people seem fail to defend their religious belief and at last.. The protectors and guardians of this religion has no choice except you know what i mean... Every action you do has a reason and I am here to explain all kind of these reason.. i am not a ordinary human.. I can see what you can't see... This is very exact purpose why i had posted this thread here... I knew what would happened in A&A foram..

    Well a lot of it, maybe all at its heart, is not so much atheism as anti-Theism and so draws its emotional power not from disbelief but hatred of a God that deep down they know is there. The Bible instructs Christians not to argue with atheists though I realize that many Christians do not take this on board- it is still however wise advice.


  • Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Tristan Attractive Uterus


    Well a lot of it, maybe all at its heart, is not so much atheism as anti-Theism and so draws its emotional power not from disbelief but hatred of a God that deep down they know is there..

    stop making things up
    you believe, others don't

    not to mention it's ALL the gods they don't believe in, not just your one

    so it's as easy to say "you're only a monotheist because of your hatred of all the other deities you know deep down are there"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Well a lot of it, maybe all at its heart, is not so much atheism as anti-Theism and so draws its emotional power not from disbelief but hatred of a God that deep down they know is there. The Bible instructs Christians not to argue with atheists though I realize that many Christians do not take this on board- it is still however wise advice.


    I don't hate God, or any of those hundreds of other Gods.

    How can I hate something I don't believe in and doesn't exist. It's like, hating Leprechauns, Fairies and Robert Pattinsons acting talents.

    @deadone
    The thread was locked because the mods are tired of people coming along and asking a really really stupid question. No Atheism is not a religion, accept this simple fact. Yes, some people may be "militant" about it, but so can fishing enthusiasts.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Yes dead one, that thread was closed because atheism is a religion, nothing to do with the OP of that thread having at least one sock-puppeting account closed or poster after poster logging onto the A&A forum to jump in the thread after 10/15/20 pages of posts, to simply declare atheism a religion all the while ignoring every point in every other post explaining how clearly false a notion that is :rolleyes:.

    There isn't a single point on that A&A thread, from those who claimed that atheism is a religion, that isn't debunked by the posts in this thread.
    See your words, being an atheist, dont carry weight here... What carries weight is words of HamletOrHecuba.. Because his observation are neutral..... You are atheist and it's your priority to show atheism not as religion.. What do your words carry no weight ... Read this link..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Because of your confirmatory bias why should we believe in you... Should we?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    bluewolf wrote: »
    stop making things up
    you believe, others don't

    not to mention it's ALL the gods they don't believe in, not just your one

    so it's as easy to say "you're only a monotheist because of your hatred of all the other deities you know deep down are there"
    You are making things up and stopping him... Wow... You want propagation of your doctrines/beliefs and stopping others.. Wow..
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I don't hate God, or any of those hundreds of other Gods.

    How can I hate something I don't believe in and doesn't exist. It's like, hating Leprechauns, Fairies and Robert Pattinsons acting talents.
    You hate God not because it doesn't exist... you it because it goes against you belief of "infinite Chance"... The more powerful deity than religious Gods..
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    @deadone
    The thread was locked because the mods are tired of people coming along and asking a really really stupid question. No Atheism is not a religion, accept this simple fact. Yes, some people may be "militant" about it, but so can fishing enthusiasts.
    The thread was locked because of bias... Majority of moderators in A&A are believer of atheism... So there is bias present in their mind... and you know it's natural Muslim moderator will try to defend his Islamic faith... Christian will try defend his faith... and atheist will try defend his faith... That's the reason people were banned, attacked, and thread is being closed.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    dead one wrote: »
    You are making things up and stopping him... Wow... You want propagation of your doctrines/beliefs and stopping others.. Wow..


    You hate God not because it doesn't exist... you it because it goes against you belief of "infinite Chance"... The more powerful deity than religious Gods..
    Nope. I cannot hate something I don't believe in. To hate something means you acknowledge the existence of such. As I do not acknowledge the God or Gods that people believe in, I cannot hate them.
    It's like you saying you hate the Christian God. You don't believe in it, so you cannot hate it.

    I may hate the bile and vicious bigoted hatred filled propaganda spewed by some of the believes of (some) sects of religious groups, but not the God they choose to believe in. Again, because I do not believe they exist, therefore cannot hate it.
    dead one wrote: »
    The thread was locked because of bias... Majority of moderators in A&A are believer of atheism... So there is bias present in their mind... and you know it's natural Muslim moderator will try to defend his Islamic faith... Christian will try defend his faith... and atheist will try defend his faith... That's the reason people were banned, attacked, and thread is being closed.....

    tumblr_m3uaku3bpm1qilj9qo2_1280.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    See your words, being an atheist, dont carry weight here... What carries weight is words of HamletOrHecuba.. Because his observation are neutral..... You are atheist and it's your priority to show atheism not as religion.. What do your words carry no weight ... Read this link..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Because of your confirmatory bias why should we believe in you... Should we?

    Is that really the way you want to precede on this, dead one? You really want to call confirmational bias in a case where you clearly are only accepting the posts from those who support your own bias :rolleyes:.

    Pointing out that confirmational bias is possible, is not the same as pointing out that it has happened. I gave the courtesy of finding posts which back up my claims, you have done no such thing. Why should anyone believe you, when you clearly have a confirmational bias for anything that can even remotely be twisted to support your "atheism is a religion" claim?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    You are making things up and stopping him... Wow... You want propagation of your doctrines/beliefs and stopping others.. Wow..

    Or HamletOrHecuba is clearly just pulling claims about atheism from thin air with no evidence to back up.
    dead one wrote: »
    You hate God not because it doesn't exist... you it because it goes against you belief of "infinite Chance"... The more powerful deity than religious Gods..

    "Infinite Chance"? More powerful deity that religious Gods? What in the name of all that is chocolaty are you talking about?
    dead one wrote: »
    The thread was locked because of bias...

    Correct. No-one who posted in support of the "atheism is a religion" claim would engage in actual debate with people who contradicted that notion. They just declared their biases repeatedly, ignoring counterpoint after counterpoint. Kind of like you here, still towing the same "atheism is a religion" gibberish despite people on this thread debunking your claims in many different ways.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    Dead one, I said to make this thread in the A&A forum because this is likely to be close in this forum (and rightfully so), as its got nothing to do with Islam.

    EDIT: On the other hand, if the mods dont mind...

    If you have a problem with being banned from A&A for arguing with a mod in thread, after being given a warning for posting gibberish, then maybe the feedback forum would be more appropriate then here?


    If deadone is banned from a&a it would be a bit difficult to start a thread there:P

    PS: Never thought Islam was this much fun!


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭stuar


    I would say atheism is more a cult* of God and religion haters.

    I believe in God but I don't belong to a religion, I believe in the same God as Abraham so I take a little from Islam/Christianity/Judaism.


    *cult: a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. Dictionary.com


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Nope. I cannot hate something I don't believe in. To hate something means you acknowledge the existence of such. As I do not acknowledge the God or Gods that people believe in, I cannot hate them.
    It's like you saying you hate the Christian God. You don't believe in it, so you cannot hate it.
    Can i see your hate... Where is evidence for you above quote. Why should I believe in you. Your words don't carry weight they are hollow as hollow-men.
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I do not believe they exist, therefore cannot hate it.
    to hate something, beliefs doesn't matter. So i don't believe in you as I can't see you. If I say I hate dinosaurs ... It doesn't mean i don't believe or believe in their existence.. It means I am hating them in my imagination and I know what figments your wasted imagination has created. It's philosophy sonic2k and I worry you may not understand what i've tried to explain.
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    you don't say
    I am the only person here who has all right to say this because of my repuation


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Is that really the way you want to precede on this, dead one? You really want to call confirmational bias in a case where you clearly are only accepting the posts from those who support your own bias :rolleyes:.
    See.I am bias free freak because i have nothing personal in this matter. See if athiesm is religion, how it is going to benefit me, on the other hand, if it is not then i won't get anything from it .. you people (atheists) are very personal in proving that atheism is not religion. That's the reason why I brought confirmation bias here. It is your priority to prove atheism isn't religion and you have done what must be done to make it religion. Closing thread, threatening people, banning people, attacking people.. All these things are enough to prove atheism is a religion and you're it follower... You are worse in your attitude than the religious folks. So you are more extremist... I thank Dades, he has helped me a lot in proving my points..
    . Why should anyone believe you, when you clearly have a confirmational bias for anything that can even remotely be twisted to support your "atheism is a religion" claim?
    See I believe in evidence, I was here to learn that atheism is not religion when I got threaten/banned by atheists... So now If i believe athiesm is religion it is only because you. It isn't because of my confirmation bias as i don't have any theory... It's you attitude which has made atheism religion. In defence of your religion i became victim of your bigotry and prejudice.. Thanks for the dades telling true face their religion..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Or HamletOrHecuba is clearly just pulling claims about atheism from thin air with no evidence to back up.
    Ah, Atheists of all stripes call for evidence. One should not believe anything without evidence for the thing. The cry for evidence is the primary premise for Atheism. But when evidence appears they start denying it. I think the call for evidence has become a circular reasoning. As we know, the denial of evidence has become your faith and you very committed to it... You don't want to lose your faith...
    "Infinite Chance"? More powerful deity that religious Gods? What in the name of all that is chocolaty are you talking about?
    Theory of evolution the creation theory for religion of atheism, Infinite chance, Infinite injustice
    Correct. No-one who posted in support of the "atheism is a religion" claim would engage in actual debate with people who contradicted that notion. They just declared their biases repeatedly, ignoring counterpoint after counterpoint. Kind of like you here, still towing the same "atheism is a religion" gibberish despite people on this thread debunking your claims in many different ways.
    Correct, no-one has done nothing but your (atheist) attitude/bigotry has made it religion.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    stuar wrote: »
    If deadone is banned from a&a it would be a bit difficult to start a thread there:P
    PS: Never thought Islam was this much fun!
    stuar, you know even if i had started a thread, i would be threaten by guardian of this religion. They have taken oath to protect it. Mark Hamil knows it very well. and now i have been thrown out of their holly lands because of my infidelity..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    stuar wrote: »
    If deadone is banned from a&a it would be a bit difficult to start a thread there:P

    It would be easier if he stopped getting himself banned for posting gibberish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    stuar wrote: »
    I would say atheism is more a cult* of God and religion haters.

    *cult: a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. Dictionary.com

    By your own definition you are wrong. Atheism is a group of people who do not believe in god. That's it. There is no inherent veneration of the non belief, or of an individual or group that proposes the non belief. Atheists can venerate people, or the idea itself (just like, say, football supporters can venerate their team, or the idea of football being the greatest sport) but that doesn't mean atheism (football) is itself a cult.

    This has been explained in this thread already, did you not read any of the preceding posts before yours?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    See.I am bias free freak because i have nothing personal in this matter. See if athiesm is religion, how it is going to benefit me, on the other hand, if it is not then i won't get anything from it .. you people (atheists) are very personal in proving that atheism is not religion. That's the reason why I brought confirmation bias here. It is your priority to prove atheism isn't religion and you have done what must be done to make it religion.

    Of course you have bias towards atheism being a religion, if atheism is a religion, then you get to turn around all the instances of atheists pointing out the dangers and damages of religions in general. You get to call us hypocrites.
    Of course, this is a "you are as bad as we are, therefore we are better than you" argument, but I only claimed you were being biased, not rational.
    dead one wrote: »
    Closing thread, threatening people, banning people, attacking people.. All these things are enough to prove atheism is a religion and you're it follower... You are worse in your attitude than the religious folks. So you are more extremist... I thank Dades, he has helped me a lot in proving my points..

    I already explained why the thread was closed. Do you really so lack conviction that you wont engage my reasons for the closure of the thread.
    dead one wrote: »
    See I believe in evidence, I was here to learn that atheism is not religion when I got threaten/banned by atheists... So now If i believe athiesm is religion it is only because you. It isn't because of my confirmation bias as i don't have any theory... It's you attitude which has made atheism religion. In defence of your religion i became victim of your bigotry and prejudice.. Thanks for the dades telling true face their religion..

    You got banned in that thread for telling someone to "piss off" and that you didn't have "time for clowns" like them. Your first post in that thread, by the way, made a declaration which you defended by claiming it to be deep and that people shouldn't quote you if they didn't have the wisdom to understand it. Your posting history makes it quite clear that you weren't in that thread to learn anything, or to debate evidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Ah, Atheists of all stripes call for evidence. One should not believe anything without evidence for the thing. The cry for evidence is the primary premise for Atheism. But when evidence appears they start denying it. I think the call for evidence has become a circular reasoning. As we know, the denial of evidence has become your faith and you very committed to it... You don't want to lose your faith...

    Oh look, dead one makes a claim and does not back it up with anything. How unusual. I love how you try and turn the most rational and sensible thing anyone can do into something irrational based on pure assertion. Its hilarious. Calling for evidence is a primary defence against bullsh*t.
    dead one wrote: »
    Theory of evolution the creation theory for religion of atheism, Infinite chance, Infinite injustice

    How can anyone get so much wrong about what is a fairly simple concept? Theory of evolution =/= theory of creation (abiogenesis). They are two entirely different theories, one could happen entirely without the other. There is no "infinite chance" in evolution, because there is no infinite number of actions. And where does injustice come into a naturally occurring phenomena? Is rain injust?
    dead one wrote: »
    Correct, no-one has done nothing but your (atheist) attitude/bigotry has made it religion.

    Again with the lack of conviction in your posts. I explained my post in my response, can you not do the same. You know, your complete inability to back up anything you say beyond asserting it, makes me think you don't really believe any of it at all. But you would hardly keep harping on about something you didn't actually believe in, would you?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    It would be easier if he stopped getting himself banned for posting gibberish.
    why should I, When their bigotry was quite clear.. That's my boldness, See I am not a flatterer as you are. I sacrificed my ID in the foram against injustice, cruelty and tyranny... I stood in their way. It was not only me, JC also became victim of their pride and prejudice. ...they ARE bigots, in their arrogance and i became their victim... Its a deadly trap... my id was crucified at the altar of their bigotry... How lucky am i.....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭hivizman


    hivizman wrote: »
    In my moderator's capacity, I feel it necessary to mention that I do not consider it appropriate for a discussion of the actions of moderators on another forum to be debated here. On the other hand, I would be prepared to tolerate a discussion of the general question of whether atheism is a religion, particularly if this is addressed from an Islamic perspective.

    I posted the above as long ago as 15 February 2012. Unfortunately, we seem to have gone back to debating what happened on another forum. The question posed by the thread has been clearly answered - on any standard meaning of the word "religion", atheism cannot qualify as a religion. As Mark Hamill has reminded us in his post at 11:38 today, even if some atheists fervently defend their views and fervently deny those of theists, this does not apply to atheism as a concept.

    Some of the postings in this thread are quite frankly embarrassing. Because I participated in the earlier debate, I feel uneasy about exercising the moderator's ability to close the thread down, but maybe one of the other moderators will be prepared to intervene.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    why should I, When their bigotry was quite clear.. That's my boldness, See I am not a flatterer as you are. I sacrificed my ID in the foram against injustice, cruelty and tyranny... I stood in their way. It was not only me, JC also became victim of their pride and prejudice. ...they ARE bigots, in their arrogance and i became their victim... Its a deadly trap... my id was crucified at the altar of their bigotry... How lucky am i.....

    ----> Feedback


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Asiaprod


    And on that good pointer to ======> Feedback, I am closing this thread.
    Its going nowhere productive,
    Asia.


This discussion has been closed.
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