Would you?

mariaalice · 31-01-2012 4:39pm #1

There was woman on the Marion Funnican program on Saturday telling her story, the woman had become an escort/prostitute for a year when she could not pay her mortgage, she was separated and a motherer of 3 children.

She said it was a logical decision as she couldn't work full time because of childcare the idea came to her after trying dating and only finding men who wanted something casual this led her to think men who only want something causal might use an escort for sex.

She has now written a book about her time as an escort she keep it totally secrete from her parents and family and her ex husband.

As I have never been tested by being in a situation where I could not pay my mortgage I don't know what I would do, I like to think I would never do it because I think prostitution is an exploitation of women.

So if you were rally stuck would you do it.

31-01-2012 4:44pm

Do you think she was exploited?

mariaalice · 31-01-2012 4:46pm

She said she didn't feel exploited.

lazygal · 31-01-2012 4:48pm

I heard the interview. I don't think its ALWAYS the case that a woman selling herself is being exploited. It didn't sound like this woman was, she had a clear view of her market, targeted it and seemed to have dealt with the consequences of what she was doing in a very level headed way. It was an eye-opening interview. However, she still felt the need to disguise her voice and said she would only be telling her children what she did later in life, if at all. So I guess on some level she's not 100% okay with what she did if she still needs to hide her real identity.

lex123 · 31-01-2012 4:50pm

i think any mother would probably think about it when d risk of losing your home comes into an specially with kids involved,but then again you would think why didnt she turn to her parents or family,its a tricky one indeed but i wouldnt look down at her for doing it not 1 bit!

lazygal · 31-01-2012 4:50pm

ETA-I wonder how many men have felt this is an option to make money and went ahead with it? I think its interesting to contrast the lap-dancing and stripper end of this where some women need to do this to pay the bills, get through college, support their kids or whatever with the options available to men. How many features are there on men who turned to this kind of thing due to financial woes?

lex123 · 31-01-2012 4:56pm

I wouldnt say the market is any were near as big 4 men as it is for women

baby and crumble · 31-01-2012 5:15pm

lazygal wrote: »

I heard the interview. I don't think its ALWAYS the case that a woman selling herself is being exploited. It didn't sound like this woman was, she had a clear view of her market, targeted it and seemed to have dealt with the consequences of what she was doing in a very level headed way. It was an eye-opening interview. However, she still felt the need to disguise her voice and said she would only be telling her children what she did later in life, if at all. So I guess on some level she's not 100% okay with what she did if she still needs to hide her real identity.

I don't know if that's why, I mean there are lots of things I am 100% ok with doing in private, but if word got out I'm sure there'd be some people who would look at me differently, make assumptions, and all sorts. Perhaps she's being sensible and realising that prostitutes are viewed as 'less than'.

I don't see her hiding this part of her identity as much different from someone in say, Iran, keeping quiet about being gay. Safety of yourself and your family has to come first.

lazygal · 31-01-2012 5:57pm

baby and crumble wrote: »

I don't know if that's why, I mean there are lots of things I am 100% ok with doing in private, but if word got out I'm sure there'd be some people who would look at me differently, make assumptions, and all sorts. Perhaps she's being sensible and realising that prostitutes are viewed as 'less than'.

I don't see her hiding this part of her identity as much different from someone in say, Iran, keeping quiet about being gay. Safety of yourself and your family has to come first.

But have you ever not told someone about a job you're doing? She saw it very much as a job. I know on a pragmatic level people will see what she did, ie work as an escort, as something deserving of judgment. She obviously sees herself as still being judged and she's not ok with that, hence hiding her true identity. So on that level, she's done something she feels she will have to hide, which I would think is not good for anyone, no matter how pragmatic the reason. She always has that period of life which has a cloud over it, which even though she's written a book and done interviews about, could come back to haunt her. Which speaks volumes about the reality of working in this industry. She didn't feel exploited, but equally she can't be open about this job she did.

stripysocks85 · 31-01-2012 6:46pm

If you're extremely stuck for money, who knows what you'll resort to in order to pay the bills - especially if you've children to look after too. It wouldn't be for me, and I'm not glamourising it in any way, but it seems quite straight forward. An escort does NOT Have to engage in sexual activities, but generally does because the money is good. Obviously, you can get involved in sticky situtations, pardon the pun, and there may be times when you really really really do NOT want to do anything with your 'date', but if they've paid for you, you pretty much have to. I've looked at an escort website, purely out of curiousity, and it TOTALLY wouldn't be for me, but if someone is that desperate to pay bills, I can see how they would turn to it. Once they are safe and protecting themselves of course...............

Beal Tuille · 01-02-2012 9:37pm

I'd be interested to read the book (assuming it's genuine and not a makey uppy thing) to find out the type of men that 'used' her.

Were they single, married etc. If married, why did they need a prostitute. Was the Mrs at home not doing things the man wanted like o and a?

panda100 · 01-02-2012 9:57pm

I would really question the authenticity of this womens account. These types of stories pop up every now and again, and make prostitution sound quite attractive to women in dire economic situations. They are dangerous to the extreme, as its probably some pimp trying to make prostitution sound attractive to desperatly struggling women. If you actually do some research on escort ireland or any similar site, you will see that you can count on both hands the amount of Irish women who are working as prostitutes in Ireland. There is a reason why so few women would do this type of 'work'. The majority of prostitutes in Ireland are migrant women absolutely desperate for cash, and willing to do a variety of peverse acts for very little money. Being a prostitute is not about having sex with a nice,shy,clean man for 30 minutes and then walking away with a whole pile of cash. You have to be willing to do a whole variety of things for not much money, while also being in an extremely vunerable environment. I can't imagine anything more degrading for a human being. It would affect your attitude towards sex and men for the rest of your life,and that is something that money will never buy back.

Sister Assumpta · 01-02-2012 10:00pm

lazygal wrote: »

However, she still felt the need to disguise her voice and said she would only be telling her children what she did later in life, if at all. So I guess on some level she's not 100% okay with what she did if she still needs to hide her real identity.

No, I wouldn't agree there.

I think she was okay with it. But I think she understood that her family, and her children,and their social groups might not be so okay with it.

Personally I think anal sex and swinging are perfectly reasonable activities, but I wouldn't necessarily publicly advertise that opinion on live radio, because I wouldn't want to embarrass my family - regardless of how illogical their embarrassment might be.

Would I have sex for a salary if I had no other options? Hell yes.

Sister Assumpta · 01-02-2012 10:07pm

panda100 wrote: »

If you actually do some research on escort ireland or any similar site, you will see that you can count on both hands the amount of Irish women who are working as prostitutes in Ireland. There is a reason why so few women would do this type of 'work'.

I recently worked in a large office building where all the degree holders like myself who sat at desks and had administrative duties were Irish women. And all the cleaning staff that we worked alongside were Romanian, Chinese, Bulgarian and Brazilian women. What is the meaning of this? Why, that there is simply a hierarchy of desirability in terms of employment opportunities. It doesn't mean that typically undesirable occupations, which may be held by migrants who are new to the domestic labour market, are 'wrong' in themselves.

The majority of prostitutes in Ireland are migrant women absolutely desperate for cash, and willing to do a variety of peverse acts for very little money.

Perverse?

What is a perverted act?

Beal Tuille · 01-02-2012 10:30pm

I'd say the 'tastier' end of the requirements like w'sports and beyond.

I'd say most Irish men wouldn't be at that end of the scale. I certainly wouldn't be.

panda100 · 01-02-2012 11:10pm

Sister Assumpta wrote: »

I recently worked in a large office building where all the degree holders like myself who sat at desks and had administrative duties were Irish women. And all the cleaning staff that we worked alongside were Romanian, Chinese, Bulgarian and Brazilian women. What is the meaning of this? Why, that there is simply a hierarchy of desirability in terms of employment opportunities. It doesn't mean that typically undesirable occupations, which may be held by migrants who are new to the domestic labour market, are 'wrong' in themselves.

Perverse?

What is a perverted act?

I don't think prostitution will ever be a desirable occupation for women. If it was then there would be lots of Irish women working as prostitutes.There isn't,because luckily in Ireland we are given a lot better opportunities than the majority of women involved in prostitution in Ireland, such as asylum seekers who have no other choice but to sell their bodies.Who on earth would choose to give a blow job,followed by anal sex,followed by whatever other whim a client your not remotely attracted to decides he wants to do to and with your body.And thats the tame stuff, your boundaries will be pushed to the absolute limits if your desperate enough for money. Oh and dont foget that after you have done everything you can do sexually to please this man he will rate you looks and peformance and put it up on the escort ireland community forums.

baby and crumble · 01-02-2012 11:22pm

panda100 wrote: »

I don't think prostitution will ever be a desirable occupation for women. If it was then there would be lots of Irish women working as prostitutes.There isn't,because luckily in Ireland we are given a lot better opportunities than the majority of women involved in prostitution in Ireland, such as asylum seekers who have no other choice but to sell their bodies.Who on earth would choose to give a blow job,followed by anal sex,followed by whatever other whim a client your not remotely attracted to decides he wants to do to and with your body.And thats the tame stuff, your boundaries will be pushed to the absolute limits if your desperate enough for money. Oh and dont foget that after you have done everything you can do sexually to please this man he will rate you looks and peformance and put it up on the escort ireland community forums.

Well yeah, it's not for everyone, and there are lots of women (and men) who are desperate and are forced into the sex trade either through circumstance or through physical force.

But for some people, it is a means to an end. It means food on the table, a roof over their heads and bills paid. It might not be, for a lot of people, the 'best' way to earn a living, but it beats being homeless for an awful lot of people.

And lets not forget, some people really, really like sex. So for them, if they enjoy what they are doing, why should other people look down on them?

saa · 01-02-2012 11:55pm

Its not ooh selling sex thats shameful, I'm fine with someone who truly wants to work as a prostitute doing so but I am really unsettled by the idea that someone said she just targeted the market.. well the market scares me I'm glad she didn't get hurt or abused. Some women can't mentally cope with that kind of work some can my problem is still with the regulation of it concerning the safety of the women.

Sister Assumpta · 03-02-2012 8:10pm

panda100 wrote: »

I don't think prostitution will ever be a desirable occupation for women. If it was then there would be lots of Irish women working as prostitutes.

Generally speaking, I agree. But I don't think cleaning toilets will ever be a desirable occupation either. If it was, then there would be lots of Irish women working as toilet cleaners.

But it isn't the end of the world to have to work as a toilet cleaner. And personally, I wouldn't necessarily consider it the end of the world to have to work as a prostitute.

Who on earth would choose to give a blow job,followed by anal sex,followed by whatever other whim a client your not remotely attracted to decides he wants to do to and with your body.

Why do you find these things so precious? It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

I think it would do both woman AND men the world of good to be a little bit more grown up when it comes to sex. We need to stop pussyfooting around perfectly natural bodily functions and stop treating them like magical wonders.

Ickle Magoo · 03-02-2012 8:55pm

It's not so much the acts I view as precious, as me, I'm precious. I have no wish to deliberately put myself at risk by choosing a job that is renowned for being on the receiving end of violence and extortion.

Why do you find these things so precious? It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

Seriously? Do you agree with the laws that put restrictions on sex - ie familial relations or in public places? Presumably if they carry the same gravity as handshakes, there shouldn't be an issue...

Sister Assumpta wrote: »

I think it would do both woman AND men the world of good to be a little bit more grown up when it comes to sex. We need to stop pussyfooting around perfectly natural bodily functions and stop treating them like magical wonders.

I don't understand why not caring who touches you or who you touch would ever be equated with maturity &/or sure-footedness...

I would always want to retain the right to choose who can intimately touch me and while I don't consider bodily functions magical wonders; touching - never mind intimately - some bloke I'm actually physically repulsed by would never be my idea of a rational and attractive career move.

sherbett32 · 03-02-2012 10:11pm

panda100 wrote: »

I would really question the authenticity of this womens account. These types of stories pop up every now and again, and make prostitution sound quite attractive to women in dire economic situations. They are dangerous to the extreme, as its probably some pimp trying to make prostitution sound attractive to desperatly struggling women. If you actually do some research on escort ireland or any similar site, you will see that you can count on both hands the amount of Irish women who are working as prostitutes in Ireland. There is a reason why so few women would do this type of 'work'. The majority of prostitutes in Ireland are migrant women absolutely desperate for cash, and willing to do a variety of peverse acts for very little money. Being a prostitute is not about having sex with a nice,shy,clean man for 30 minutes and then walking away with a whole pile of cash. You have to be willing to do a whole variety of things for not much money, while also being in an extremely vunerable environment. I can't imagine anything more degrading for a human being. It would affect your attitude towards sex and men for the rest of your life,and that is something that money will never buy back.

Completely agree with this, woman in question made it all sound very easy, just gritting your teeth while some ordinary joe pumps away for 5 minutes then she left with a lots of money.

This is not the "real" face of prostitution in Ireland - very dangereous and damaging story IMO & may make soem women think it's easy money

johnr1 · 04-02-2012 2:55am

Ok, as a guy posting on this, I'm aware that my opinion is less relevant than that of women, but one thing struck me about her interview which hasn't come up in this thread yet.
She uses supporting her children as a justification for doing a job she clearly has issues with, and feels that she can't tell anyone she knows about.

I have absolutely zero issue with how she chooses to earn her living, - if she either didn't have children, or at least if she didn't use them to justify something she feels she must hide from everybody who knows her.

My issue would be with what message she is teaching to her children when they almost inevitably find out. I say inevitably because this country is so small, and everyone knows someone who knows someone, and we all talk.

This message seems to be :That material possesions and comforts are of more value than dignity and self worth.

No child with one committed sober parent starves, lives rough or goes uneducated in this country. She had other options. This is the one she chose, fine, but she'd want to be prepared for an avalanche of anger and problems in her children if they were to find out during their mid teens for example.

Once again, I apologise if something in this post offends women, whose opinions this thread was started for.

.

pow wow · 04-02-2012 9:14am

johnr1 wrote: »

This message seems to be :That material possesions and comforts are of more value than dignity and self worth.

She had other options. This is the one she chose, fine, but she'd want to be prepared for an avalanche of anger and problems in her children if they were to find out during their mid teens for example.

In the interview she didn't come across as being without dignity or self-worth so I'm not sure the message she would send to her kids is about material possessions being more valuable than those attributes. She made a decision which was right for her at the time, it doesn't make her bereft of dignity and self worth. The message, if any, doesn't need to be an either/or scenario. The fact she doesn't want her children/family to know doesn't necessarily mean she's ashamed of what she did, but one can imagine the hurt other people would feel (i.e. her parents feeling she was forced into it, her kids' friends taking the proverbial etc.)

As for the OP's question, would I do it? If I had kids and felt that was my only option then absolutely, no question.

Dudess · 04-02-2012 12:16pm

I wouldn't unless in extremely dire circumstances. I don't buy "It's just sex" thinking - sex means different things to different people and if a person sees it as a merely functional act, then cool, their personal view, but it's not reasonable to feel everyone else should share their view, or that people who see it as a bigger deal are wrong. I personally can't relate to physical intimacy being put in the same category as shaking hands - i find that cold, and even a little dangerous. There are feelings of arousal required to even make it half enjoyable.

I don't put sex on that much of a pedestal, but there has to be at least a degree of physical attraction present for me to want to engage in it. I certainly wouldn't like to engage in it as a business transaction and with someone who holds zero appeal for me whatsoever on any level besides being a form of income.

johnr1 wrote: »

Ok, as a guy posting on this, I'm aware that my opinion is less relevant than that of women
.

I don't see how it is, just because you're a man. If you said "What about the men who are exploited by the prostitutes?" or something... well that's the sort of whataboutery that leads to tensions here, not the mere fact you're a man.

JuliusCaesar · 04-02-2012 5:51pm

Sister Assumpta wrote: »

It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes. .

It's not just sex. You are actually selling YOURSELF. This blog gives an honest opinion of one "escort" as she calls herself, and details why being a prostitute is about more than selling sex.

Thankyou for showing me what sex as an object with holes is like, so I am now so grateful to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me, my whole person, not just my vagina or mouth...

(It’ll be over in an hour. It’ll be over in an hour. It’ll be over in an hour. It’ll be over in an hour). Every time you ordered me into a position, you made my soul shrink a little bit more. Every time you made a weird little remark about some part of my body, every time you clucked approvingly, every time you sighed when I didn’t want to do something, you made me feel that bit less powerful, that bit more submissive, that bit more devalued.....

The money gives you the power to say who you want to ****, when you want to ****, how you want to **** them, and for how long, irrespective of her desires, pain limits, levels of comfort. You’re paying so you get to say.

johnr1 · 04-02-2012 6:40pm

pow wow wrote: »

In the interview she didn't come across as being without dignity or self-worth so I'm not sure the message she would send to her kids is about material possessions being more valuable than those attributes. She made a decision which was right for her at the time, it doesn't make her bereft of dignity and self worth. The message, if any, doesn't need to be an either/or scenario. The fact she doesn't want her children/family to know doesn't necessarily mean she's ashamed of what she did, but one can imagine the hurt other people would feel (i.e. her parents feeling she was forced into it, her kids' friends taking the proverbial etc.)

As for the OP's question, would I do it? If I had kids and felt that was my only option then absolutely, no question.

If she or you lived in a country with no social supports, and there was a real danger of your children dying of hunger, or lack of shelter or of them growing up without an education, then yes, it would be in their interest to do this.
However, neither she nor you do, and the potential damage caused to them by having a mother an escort/prostitute is in my opinion more than that caused by having to live on the welfare system here.

Dudess wrote: »

I don't see how it is, just because you're a man. If you said "What about the men who are exploited by the prostitutes?" or something... well that's the sort of whataboutery that leads to tensions here, not the mere fact you're a man.

No, there are plenty of other opinions which SOME men hold which would also be unwelcome, and not just the ridiculous hyperbole you gave as an example.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

It's not just sex. You are actually selling YOURSELF. This blog gives an honest opinion of one "escort" as she calls herself, and details why being a prostitute is about more than selling sex.

There are plenty of other escort bloggers - some who found it to be a more positive experience than the one you linked.
Most are however by single women without children, and for them the motivation seems to be money, lifestyle, material possessions.
I think that's fine, if those things are most important to that person. Free will, free choice etc.

What I don't agree with is using one's children's lifestyle and material comforts to justify it in one of the richest countries in the world with a very generous welfare system.

.

username123 · 04-02-2012 7:01pm

Would I walk the streets looking for punters - no, absolutely not.

Would I accept cash in exchange for a variety of sexual acts? Yes, absolutely, if I needed or wanted the money.

But because its not legal in Ireland and its an underground dangerous career, its highly unlikely Id ever do it here no matter how bad things were.

Giselle · 04-02-2012 8:24pm

Sister Assumpta wrote: »

Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

Its also important to remember that other people are entitled to a differing opinion as surely as you are to yours. It doesn't make them precious - whatever that means.

I find your attitude (equating handjobs with handshakes), absolutely baffling to be honest.

mariaalice · 04-02-2012 8:52pm

Its easy to take a moral position when you have never been tested!

Giselle · 04-02-2012 9:05pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Its easy to take a moral posation when you have never been tested!

Thats very true, and I wouldn't judge anyone who goes that route.

Its not for me, unless I had an otherwise starving brood of kids or something equally desperate, and I think I'd pay a high price in myself. But we're all different.

Dudess · 04-02-2012 9:34pm

Sister Assumpta wrote: »

Why do you find these things so precious? It's just sex. Sorry to be crass, but I don't know why we treat handjobs with more gravity than we treat handshakes.

I think it would do both woman AND men the world of good to be a little bit more grown up when it comes to sex. We need to stop pussyfooting around perfectly natural bodily functions and stop treating them like magical wonders.

That phrase makes me think of urination, defecation, menstruation.

Sex acts as bodily functions - really reduces them to something completely perfunctory. They are natural once certain elements are present - like arousal, lubrication, desire, consent. Would you consider rape natural? I mean it's sex, a natural bodily function...

For many people, anal isn't "just sex" - it's something they'd rather not do. Personal preference.

And do you really think cleaner is a fair comparison with prostitute?

strandroad · 04-02-2012 10:28pm

No, I wouldn't and certainly not for a pair of football boots like she supposedly did. I don't believe she is a real person either, with her account being so squeaky clean. My feeling is that it's all to market an "oh my God an educated woman selling herself" book.

I agree about the arguments saying that with social welfare safety net in place there is no need for a committed parent to engage in activities putting her own safety at risk. If she was assaulted, raped, HIV infected, arrested as part of some ruckus etc. how would it help her children?

If she is such a promising book writer, why not to write a book on something else. A middle class woman braving the recession story would sell well too, if she put enough spark in it. If she had the gusto to blow strangers, this should be a walk in the park!

Dudess · 04-02-2012 11:28pm

baby and crumble wrote: »

And lets not forget, some people really, really like sex. So for them, if they enjoy what they are doing, why should other people look down on them?

Are there people who enjoy the sensation so much that it doesn't matter a jot whom it's with? Perhaps, but rare I'd assume. The money rules methinks.
Nobody's looking down on prostitutes here btw - just offering views on the pitfalls of the profession.

Ickle Magoo · 05-02-2012 11:06am

mariaalice wrote: »

Its easy to take a moral position when you have never been tested!

That's a bit of lazy assumption tbh - and it's more that a little disingenuous to ask "Would you" and then throw out the moral high-ground card when posters take the time to respond. Why should being tested automatically mean prostitution should or would be the only option anyway? Millions of people manage to get by in life without resorting to prostitution - in the OP it was a "rational" choice.

I left home at 16 with very little to call my own, I worked two low paying jobs at nights to get through university...at no point did or will I ever think a mortgage or lifestyle maintained by prostitution was/is a fair exchange for losing autonomy on who can touch my body, nor for disregarding my personal safety. That's my "rational" choice.

pow wow · 05-02-2012 1:53pm

johnr1 wrote: »

If she or you lived in a country with no social supports, and there was a real danger of your children dying of hunger, or lack of shelter or of them growing up without an education, then yes, it would be in their interest to do this.

However, neither she nor you do, and the potential damage caused to them by having a mother an escort/prostitute is in my opinion more than that caused by having to live on the welfare system here.

I don't think any woman who does this is waiting for the day they can tell their kids how mummy was a prostitute back in the day and the woman in the interview was a discreet as she could be so it's not automatic that her children are going to find out. They may find out, they may not, who knows. As her children grow up they'll form their own opinions on what to them is or isn't acceptable. Sometimes parents do things outside of that but they are adults with choices to make.

It is a personal choice and much as it may abhor you to think any woman would rationally choose it in a country with a good welfare system, it's a choice more than one woman makes every day. I doubt any of them would have written this into the story of their lives and that of their children unless they felt they had no better option. The context of this particular woman's story meant that for her the jump from guys she met online dating who were only after one thing and taking that one step further and charging for it wasn't a great leap.

Just because it's not a rational or morally correct choice for some people it doesn't mean it's not for others. Most of us are lucky enough to chart out our life stories saying how tough we had it but we made it through without ever even considering prostitution. Some of us just aren't that lucky.

johnr1 · 05-02-2012 2:09pm

pow wow wrote: »

It is a personal choice and much as it may abhor you to think any woman would rationally choose it in a country with a good welfare system, it's a choice more than one woman makes every day. I doubt any of them would have written this into the story of their lives and that of their children unless they felt they had no better option.

Just because it's not a rational or morally correct choice for some people it doesn't mean it's not for others. Most of us are lucky enough to chart out our life stories saying how tough we had it but we made it through without ever even considering prostitution. Some of us just aren't that lucky.

Where did I say it abhorred me?? Stop putting words in my mouth.

Yes it IS a personal CHOICE, I've been saying that in every post.

What it is not is necessary. She had other options.

I never made any moral judgement on this choice.

My one and only point is that it is disingenuous to say "I had to,- for my kids", because this is untrue. She didn't have to. She chose to.

.

panda100 · 05-02-2012 7:07pm

sherbett32 wrote: »

This is not the "real" face of prostitution in Ireland - very dangereous and damaging story IMO & may make soem women think it's easy money

Completely agree. I was in Easons in Dublin at the weekend, and it was number 3 in the bestseller chart! The book was also widely reviewed in most of the weekend papers.
I think if it was being sold as fiction it wouldn't be so bad,but it is meant to be 'real' account of working as a prostitutue in Ireland!That is what is so damaging, as there are women whom are in dire situations and think prostitution is a lucrative option after reading this completly fake account. The author states in her interviews that its the easiest money she ever made. Of course, this will appeal to lots of women,but her account is absolute and complete fiction.It is without a shred of doubt written by a journalist, struggling writer or pimp working in the sex industry.

Firstly, there is no way a women in her late 30's would make €400/hour in recessionary times. Not even in the celtic tiger boom would an escort in their late 30's make that money.You could get Brazilian twins in their teens for half that price!It is very unclear and vague wether she was working for an agency or as an independent. If she was working for an agency,she'd only be making €200 an hour or less, after they have taken their cut. The figures of what she earned really don't add up. She is also a very stupid women with no regard for her saftey. She was meeting strangers in hotels and nobody knew where she was. There are very,very few escorts who would do outcalls like that with no security or buddy contact system.

As for the type of clients she had, well thats just laughable.Lonely,poor men who she feels sorry for! This is not what your average punter is like in Ireland. The majority of punters who encounter a women in her late 30's with stretch marks standing at their hotel door, would laugh in her face and have no qualms with telling her she was an old bag.
It seems like she had absolutely no bad experiences whatsoever, and it was all fun and games. Lets be realistic,in any job you have sh*t days and encounter really sh*t people.Yet,Scarlett O'Kelly seems to have had none of these days or met any bad people. Is that really believable?

I was in an internet cafe in Phibsborough one night, and there was an old smelly man beside me looking at escort ireland. He was ringing up a whole pile of the escorts trying to get the cheapest one he could for 30minutes. The power was in his hands, as he rang 10 diffeernt girls and asked them what they would do for him in 30minutes for the smallest price. I listened as they rang him back one after one, desperate for cash,negotiating what sex acts they would peform on him for the cheapest price. That is not empowering for women, and books like this are just absolutely dreadful, as they are promoting a false account of an industry that we should be doing everything in our power to stamp out.

Did anyone see the front page of The Sun yesterday?There was an article with the headline 'Tarts coming to Ireland'.Basically saying how there'll be lots of 'tarts',escorts to you and me, in Ireland this weekend for the rugby match. They had a picture of some 20 year old Latvian girl, who said she was really up for it and open for business. I think calling women whom work as escorts 'tarts' is disgsuting. But you can bet that the people who buy The Sun are those who probably will use escorts, and that is their view on women.

baby and crumble · 05-02-2012 7:24pm

panda100 wrote: »

Completely agree. I was in Easons in Dublin at the weekend, and it was number 3 in the bestseller chart! The book was also widely reviewed in most of the weekend papers.
I think if it was being sold as fiction it wouldn't be so bad,but it is meant to be 'real' account of working as a prostitutue in Ireland!That is what is so damaging, as there are women whom are in dire situations and think prostitution is a lucrative option after reading this completly fake account. The author states in her interviews that its the easiest money she ever made. Of course, this will appeal to lots of women,but her account is absolute and complete fiction.It is without a shred of doubt written by a journalist, struggling writer or pimp working in the sex industry.

Firstly, there is no way a women in her late 30's would make €400/hour in recessionary times. Not even in the celtic tiger boom would an escort in their late 30's make that money.You could get Brazilian twins in their teens for half that price!It is very unclear and vague wether she was working for an agency or as an independent. If she was working for an agency,she'd only be making €200 an hour or less, after they have taken their cut. The figures of what she earned really don't add up. She is also a very stupid women with no regard for her saftey. She was meeting strangers in hotels and nobody knew where she was. There are very,very few escorts who would do outcalls like that with no security or buddy contact system.

As for the type of clients she had, well thats just laughable.Lonely,poor men who she feels sorry for! This is not what your average punter is like in Ireland. The majority of punters who encounter a women in her late 30's with stretch marks standing at their hotel door, would laugh in her face and have no qualms with telling her she was an old bag.
It seems like she had absolutely no bad experiences whatsoever, and it was all fun and games. Lets be realistic,in any job you have sh*t days and encounter really sh*t people.Yet,Scarlett O'Kelly seems to have had none of these days or met any bad people. Is that really believable?

I was in an internet cafe in Phibsborough one night, and there was an old smelly man beside me looking at escort ireland. He was ringing up a whole pile of the escorts trying to get the cheapest one he could for 30minutes. The power was in his hands, as he rang 10 diffeernt girls and asked them what they would do for him in 30minutes for the smallest price. I listened as they rang him back one after one, desperate for cash,negotiating what sex acts they would peform on him for the cheapest price. That is not empowering for women, and books like this are just absolutely dreadful, as they are promoting a false account of an industry that we should be doing everything in our power to stamp out.

Did anyone see the front page of The Sun yesterday?There was an article with the headline 'Tarts coming to Ireland'.Basically saying how there'll be lots of 'tarts',escorts to you and me, in Ireland this weekend for the rugby match. They had a picture of some 20 year old Latvian girl, who said she was really up for it and open for business. I think calling women whom work as escorts 'tarts' is disgsuting. But you can bet that the people who buy The Sun are those who probably will use escorts, and that is their view on women.

Can I just ask- what evidence do you have to back up those points?

JuliusCaesar · 05-02-2012 8:18pm

johnr1 wrote: »

There are plenty of other escort bloggers - some who found it to be a more positive experience than the one you linked.
Most are however by single women without children, and for them the motivation seems to be money, lifestyle, material possessions.
I think that's fine, if those things are most important to that person.

I don't know - I worked with prostitutes in a variety of circumstances, not always in my professional capacity. Most of those I encountered if not all (I don't actually remember ANY exceptions) found it a degrading and stigmatising experience. They all (as far as I recall- this was about 20-30 years ago mostly) regretted having done it.

Dudess wrote: »

Would you consider rape natural? I mean it's sex, a natural bodily function...

For many people, anal isn't "just sex" - it's something they'd rather not do. Personal preference.

Dudess wrote: »

Are there people who enjoy the sensation so much that it doesn't matter a jot whom it's with? Perhaps, but rare I'd assume. The money rules methinks.

I enjoy eating - but there's a limit beyond which I no longer enjoy it. I remember watching a documentary about a woman who set out to break the world's record for having the most men ever (a woman with whom I had a slight personal connection) and it was the saddest, most ridiculous, revolting thing ever. The men queued, massaging their dicks to maintain their erections, to have a go while she squirmed supposedly in ecstacy. She took a break after every 30 men, and they were all supposed to wear condoms...but didn't.

username123 wrote: »

Would I accept cash in exchange for a variety of sexual acts? Yes, absolutely, if I needed or wanted the money.

Now think of the most disgusting and repellent man you've ever come across and tell me that yes, you'd have sex with him. And that sex includes being ordered around by him, without any regard for you having any feelings or opinions.

mhge wrote: »

I don't believe she is a real person either, with her account being so squeaky clean. My feeling is that it's all to market an "oh my God an educated woman selling herself" book.

panda100 wrote: »

I think if it was being sold as fiction it wouldn't be so bad,but it is meant to be 'real' account of working as a prostitutue in Ireland!That is what is so damaging, as there are women whom are in dire situations and think prostitution is a lucrative option after reading this completly fake account. The author states in her interviews that its the easiest money she ever made. Of course, this will appeal to lots of women,but her account is absolute and complete fiction.It is without a shred of doubt written by a journalist, struggling writer or pimp working in the sex industry.

There's a long history of writing these books which are actually more for the titilation of the reader than they are about being truthful. The word 'pornography' itself means 'the writings of prostitutes'. Pornography doesn't claim to reflect reality, even though nowadays fashions may reflect pornography!

The_Thing · 05-02-2012 8:39pm

Addressing the House Of Commons in 2009, the Parish Priest of London's Soho had this to say about prostitution in his area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkV29ssxgM

Da Shins Kelly · 06-02-2012 5:25pm

I wouldn't do it. Fair play to any women who do it, are okay with it and feel in control, but I don't think I could ever be okay with being used for sex. It would really f*ck me up I think. It's just the kind of person I am. I guess it just kind of depends what kind of mental disposition you have, and I don't think I'd be mentally equipped to deal with the psychological effects of a job like that.

mariaalice · 06-02-2012 5:25pm

I have thought about this, I had not fully realized that she did it to maintain a lifestyle and not just to pay her mortgage. I was in a book shop this morning and flicked trough it I think it is a highly sanitized account of her life as an escort.

The things I found interesting was how she found men, on interned dating site looking for something casual really meant they were just looking for commitment free sex, so those were the men she targeted for her service's

I would not do it to maintain a life style and John1 is right she did have other choices she could have taken.

If my children were starving and the only way I could feed them was by becoming an escort yes I would do it.

I feel women ( and men ) are exploited by prostitution and that the purchasers of sex are the ones who should be prosecuted, because I think the shame of being caught, charged and named in the paper might be enought to make some men hesitate and not to pay to use another another human being.

People take the oddest inferences for what you say on boards.ie so before I add the next paragraph, I want to say I am completely uninhibited and have no hang ups about sex and I don't make value judgment on what people want to do in a consensual sexual relationship, I have had lovely relationships with various men I have been very luck I think,

However I don't think we have a divine right to sex, while a a good sexual relationship is a wonderful, pleasurable, life enhancing experience, being celibate is not going to harm you in anyway, so therefore if you cant access sex in the normal way ( for what ever reason ) you have no right to access it by paying to use another human being.

The Black Oil · 06-02-2012 6:15pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I remember watching a documentary about a woman who set out to break the world's record for having the most men ever (a woman with whom I had a slight personal connection) and it was the saddest, most ridiculous, revolting thing ever. The men queued, massaging their dicks to maintain their erections, to have a go while she squirmed supposedly in ecstacy. She took a break after every 30 men, and they were all supposed to wear condoms...but didn't.

I saw that a few years ago (on Channel 4, I think). IIRC she self-harms on camera. As you say, the whole thing was pretty sad and revolting.

mrsdewinter · 08-02-2012 9:07pm

So did anybody see last night's Primetime about prostitution in Ireland last night? Grim viewing but very interesting...

Neyite · 08-02-2012 9:36pm

mrsdewinter wrote: »

So did anybody see last night's Primetime about prostitution in Ireland last night? Grim viewing but very interesting...

I had one eye on it and one on boards. Bit sickening. But it seems the demand is there - those pimps were raking it in. And after all that, the woman at the end said that she got about €20 to €30 a day. If she was profiting out of her clients it wouldnt be so bad, but for pimps to? Ugh!

mariaalice · 08-02-2012 11:27pm

I watched the Prime time program and out of sheer curiosity I got the book and all I can say there is a serious disconnect between the way she describes it and the way Prime time portrays it.

Eileen_Lang · 14-02-2012 2:12am

Dudess wrote: »

Are there people who enjoy the sensation so much that it doesn't matter a jot whom it's with? Perhaps, but rare I'd assume. The money rules methinks.
Nobody's looking down on prostitutes here btw - just offering views on the pitfalls of the profession.

I have to say Dudess that you nailed it there for me. As an ex-hooker and newly resurrected activist the word "prostitution", for me means, simply:
*the absolute last, desperate resort when you run out of money and options

That's it...at which point, as long as I don't have to sell out my soul, my honour or my belief system, I am past being fussy about whether you want sex or 5 dozen fairy cakes, because my only, honest, interest is in the money.

Even so, my resurrection has become something of a journey. I have met lovely women who tell me they are fine with selling sex...not as a dream job, but in the same way they would be fine with working in a call centre or a supermarket...

I think books like "Between the sheets" always need to be taken with a whole bag of salt...if you told the truth, no-one would publish...but WHERE does this crackpot idea that it might "sell" women in financial difficulties on the idea of prostitution?

People aren't that suggestible...I am sure that every single woman reading this, even a virgin, has a fair, ball park, idea how she would feel about having sex with an unattractive stranger, whatever sales pitch you throw at them.

...and if, by some chance they aren't sure, they would only have do it once to be in no doubt...

...and if, by chance, they should find the experience tolerable, despite the damage to my own preferred political agenda, I don't think it will initiate the end of the world...

Raditub · 15-02-2012 6:46pm

to just answer the question....no i wouldn't! There'd be other ways to get money...it just wouldn't be worth it for me! Not saying it's always a bad idea! Just not for me!

Dolbert · 15-02-2012 10:48pm

I think anyone who claims that prostitution is harmless or that the woman is in total control is being incredibly naive. There's an interesting article about this in today's Irish Examiner:

The harsh realities of ‘being raped for a living’

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

A former Dublin prostitute speaks about her seven years working in the Irish sex trade and argues against the idea that legalisation can make the work any safer

FOLLOWING the latest revelations about Ireland’s booming prostitution rackets, a former Dublin prostitute has written a stark account of her seven year ordeal in the industry which began when she was just 15.

At that young age, circumstances no child should ever experience forced her to sell her body to elderly men, who would openly be aroused by abusing a child. Before she managed to extricate herself from a life in which she says she was "raped for a living", she admits she even contemplated suicide...

"The nation is finally beginning to take a look at the intrinsic harm of prostitution. I welcome this because it is a harm I have understood since I was a 15-year-old prostitute, being used by up to 10 men a day. The one thing that linked those men together, besides their urges to pay to abuse my young body, was that they all knew just how young I was. They all knew because I told them, and I told them because it had the near-universal effect of causing them to become very aroused.

"When a man is very aroused in street prostitution that is a good thing, because it means he’ll climax quickly and the whole ordeal will be over fairly fast. I learned that on my very first day while sitting in the car of an elderly man who repeated over and over the thing that was causing him such sexual joy: ‘Oh, you’re very young — aren’t you? Aren’t you?’

"That is the true, sleazy and debased face of prostitution — the face that pro-prostitution lobby groups hysterically deny and attempt to conceal. Well, they cannot conceal it from me. I spent too long looking at it, too long being abused by it, and too long trying to recover from the soul-level injury it left behind.

"Many of the girls I worked alongside were not much older than I was, and one was only 13-years-old — and there was no shortage of grown men paying to abuse her. Most of the older women had been working since they were our age or younger, and many of them had histories of sexual abuse that predated their prostitution lives. When a person looks at a 30- or 40-something prostitute what they forget is that they are looking, in most cases, at a woman who has been inured to bodily invasion since she was a prepubescent child.

"I didn’t just work outdoors. When the Sexual Offences Act of 1993 came into force it drove me and many others indoors, where we had even less autonomy over the conditions of our own lives. In the brothels and the ‘escort’ agencies, we had to endure the same things we did on the streets, but we had to endure them for longer, and with no screening process as to who would pay to abuse us.

"You might wonder, ‘if you were a prostitute, what did it matter who it was?’ That is an innocent question, and it is deserving of an answer. It mattered because, far from being unaware of the abusive nature of prostitution, a lot of men were not only aware of it but actively got off on it. The misogyny from a lot of men was so potent and so deliberate it could cause nothing but trauma. And we, as the prostituted class that we were, could do nothing to protect ourselves other than try to avoid its most potent manifestations. This had been at least somewhat possible on the streets, where we could do our best to discern whether or not a man had hatred and the desire to hurt us seeping out of every pore. It was not at all possible once we’d gotten run indoors, and the immediate effect was a rapid escalation in violence and murder.

"Irish prostitution has been mainly conducted indoors since then, and nothing about this ugliness has abated because it’s been concealed from the public view. In fact the opposite has been true. We were abused more thoroughly, not less, with the only difference being that now there was the secrecy of closed doors to conceal it.

"There is no doubt that many of these men had daughters older than I was, yet the abuse they unleashed on me was devastating, violent, humiliating and degrading. It was paid sexual abuse. It was ritualistic, and I experienced it in every area of prostitution.

"Do not for a moment think that the men paying to abuse here are not ‘ordinary men’. I could not count the number of wedding rings and babies car seats I encountered. The men who pay to debase and degrade women and girls in prostitution are the same men who play out the pretence of being happily married family men. I wonder sometimes at the amount of women who would be shocked, not only to know their husbands are visiting prostitutes, but also to know the depth of their own husbands’ contempt and misogynistic hatred of women.

"Under Irish law, the abusive nature of prostitution has been allowed to flourish unhindered and it is a living hell for the women struggling to survive within it. It is primarily for the sake of these women, but also for all of us who want to live in a gender-equal society, that I am gladdened to see the Irish Government finally pledge to tackle this issue.

"I only hope that they go the right way about it, which is to criminalise the purchase of sex, because nothing will change for prostituted women and girls until the commercialisation of female bodies is dealt the hammer-blow it so richly deserves.

"To those who would say legalisation would make prostitution safer: I think the same thing any former prostitute I’ve ever spoken to thinks, which is that you may as well legalise rape and battery to try to make them safer. You cannot legislate away the dehumanising, degrading trauma of prostitution, and if you try to, you are accepting a separate class of women should exist who have no access to the human rights everyone else takes for granted."

Eileen_Lang · 16-02-2012 1:15am

Dolorous wrote: »

I think anyone who claims that prostitution is harmless or that the woman is in total control is being incredibly naive. There's an interesting article about this in today's Irish Examiner:

Most important thing first, in the middle of all this is the most persuasive argument anyone could make for rolling back the 1993 legislation that forced the women underground and into the clutches of the pimps:

examiner wrote:

"Irish prostitution has been mainly conducted indoors since then, and nothing about this ugliness has abated because it’s been concealed from the public view. In fact the opposite has been true. We were abused more thoroughly, not less, with the only difference being that now there was the secrecy of closed doors to conceal it.

Pre 1993, during decriminalisation, the women had the power, pimps barely existed and what you can hide from the cops and what you can hide from a hoor (like me) are two very different things. I won't say it wasn't possible to abuse a woman or a child in Ireland at that time, I am sure it was, sadly I am sure it always will be, but it was a great deal harder than it is now, and far easier to escape.

Further criminalisation will only force the sex industry further underground and facillitate worse abuses...just as the '93 act did.

Incidentally, the youngest street prostitute I was aware of (and I knew most of them) during the period of decriminalisation between '82 and '93, was 18 and sadly (for unrelated reasons) is no longer with us, the next youngest were 19 and 22...the women did not allow young girls to work on the street...pre '82 decriminalisation I have absolutely no idea, one way or another. If she says so it must be so.

I was a teenage runaway, I was in care...I lived independently since I was 16, I never sold sex at all till I was 22, and not regularly until 5 years later...but I was far from naive...a lot of the other teen runaways in London were prostitutes very young (I didn't look young enough for the pedophiles, so I mostly went without food and lost a lot of weight and got cold in between squats and young men) but...

...I have never heard a story remotely like this...not even close...that doesn't mean it is untrue, but it certainly does mean it is very, very unususual (- perhaps a bit PG for the workplace? I will link it http://secretdiaryofadublincallgirl.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/the-subtle-infiltration-of-prostitution/ ) but, as far as I can pin down the facts it would seem that she was entrapped into some kind of fetish ring in her teens...which sounds quite horrible to me, but not much to do with prostitution, and then went on to develop a pathological compulsion to sell sex, despite being otherwise financially, emotionally and materially comfortable.

Now everyone I ever knew who was selling sex was doing it just because they needed the money...and in most cases, though they were very proud women, between the lines, they needed that money pretty desperately too, like I did, and, for me, it was a question of survival.

It is just about the money to us...I know for me, and anyone I knew well enough to discuss such personal matters with, it did not even count as sex, our own sexuality was not in any way engaged or involved at all.

If you have never sold sex that must be hard to get your head round, but it is the truth, and I do not think it is fair to judge the other women who have, or still do, sell sex for the money by the standards of a very unusual case like this, much less to consider it grounds for legislating to take away the incomes they need to get theit lives together.

That would be like firing all the ESB crews because one man develops vertigo!!

It seems to me this person was selling sex because she desperately needed serious help (and I hope she gets it) but the vast majority of us are selling sex just because we desperately need the money, as she did not...

Very different situations...

I have recently put up some of my own impressions and experiences in prostitution in case anyone interested...it's all pretty dry and academic but you are welcome to take a look:
http://www.stop-the-lights.com

I hated every minute of selling sex...it's not "me" at all, I am not even close to "the type" (or course it helps that hardly any of the other women were "the type" either)...but it was better than the alternative...which would have been homelessness and hopeless destitution (so my head and my life is messed up...so sue me

)

Sometimes people fall through the cracks, I was one of them, thank heavens it was possible for me to sell sex to save myself...and the guys I sold sex to were just normal...like anyone else...they just were not men I wanted to have sex with in my own right...but some of them did go on to become personal platonic friends.

I lost the run of myself a bit there and forgot to wind this up properly, but I think that when a person has sold sex to survive, and get to a better place in life, and do not need to sell sex any more, it is extremely unfair to try and prevent other people from having the same, last resort, chance to get their life to a better future intact, because without it, some of us will not make it at all, and that is far worse.

jackie1974 · 16-02-2012 3:10pm

I would need to be in dire circumstances, my children hungry or cold and no way to feed and heat them then yes I would but I think we have a good enough safety net in this country that we're not pushed to those extremes.

If I lived in a country where there was little or no social welfare and I had to find a way to provide for myself and my family, all other avenues were a no go then yes I would, it would kill me and i'd feel like tearing the clients head off because it goes against everything I believe in but seeing my children suffer would be much worse.

Would you?

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