A Mere Mention of Abortion.

hattoncracker · 22-02-2012 2:37am #1

I'm posting this in the Ladies Lounge because I want a female perspective on this.

Now I'm respectful of all choices in life, but I really don't understand how other people can't be.

Why is it the mere mention of abortion ends with some people just totally loosing it? I know it's a sensitive subject, and if you don't agree with it then fine.

I have a friend who considered, but didn't have an abortion. She lost the baby at 13 weeks, and one of her friends who knew that she had considered it and is very pro life told her it was karma, and that she deserved to loose it, and that she and her bf were murderers.

I have had people in real life and on this forum jump down my throat because I believe that abortion should be legalised in this country and that every woman should have the right to it if she wants to. I believe that is traumatic as an experience, made all the more so because you can never tell anyone what you went through, and you have to travel out of the country for it.

I'm just wondering, what would you say if you met someone who openly told you she had an abortion because she wasn't capable of raising a child and didn't want to give up her job, education, etc? Would you think she was a horrible person? Or would you be able to look past her actions and not judge her on it?

Bannasidhe · 22-02-2012 2:41am

hattoncracker wrote: »

I'm posting this in the Ladies Lounge because I want a female perspective on this.

Now I'm respectful of all choices in life, but I really don't understand how other people can't be.

Why is it the mere mention of abortion ends with some people just totally loosing it? I know it's a sensitive subject, and if you don't agree with it then fine.

I have a friend who considered, but didn't have an abortion. She lost the baby at 13 weeks, and one of her friends who knew that she had considered it and is very pro life told her it was karma, and that she deserved to loose it, and that she and her bf were murderers.

I have had people in real life and on this forum jump down my throat because I believe that abortion should be legalised in this country and that every woman should have the right to it if she wants to. I believe that is traumatic as an experience, made all the more so because you can never tell anyone what you went through, and you have to travel out of the country for it.

I'm just wondering, what would you say if you met someone who openly told you she had an abortion because she wasn't capable of raising a child and didn't want to give up her job, education, etc? Would you think she was a horrible person? Or would you be able to look past her actions and not judge her on it?

I have met many women who for various reasons had abortions. I can't say the knowledge ever changed my view of them. I personally wouldn't have an abortion but I support the right to choose and it is not my place to judge.

Nervous Wreck · 22-02-2012 2:44am

Personally, I think pro-lifers are scum and have eradicated them from my circle of friends. Someone asked me to sign a pro-life petition on the street the other day and the only thing that stopped me from spitting in his face was that I wasn't alone.

hattoncracker · 22-02-2012 2:49am

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Personally, I think pro-lifers are scum and have eradicated them from my circle of friends. Someone asked me to sign a pro-life petition on the street the other day and the only thing that stopped me from spitting in his face was that I wasn't alone.

Yeah.. Life isn't as black and white as they make it out to be. They make it seem like such an easy thing to just carry a baby to term and give it up for adoption. Women with unwanted pregnancies shouldn't be seen as an incubator.

jay phelan · 22-02-2012 2:53am

Everyone has the right to decide what they want to do with their body. Although I don't like the idea of abortion myself as long as it's not my own child then each to their own.

I think that in some cases abortion should be legalized, such as a victim of rape becomes pregnant with the rapists baby. That's a tough situation there and very understandable why a women would like to abort. Of course there's other situations out there and people should have the right to decide what would be best for them.

Novella · 22-02-2012 2:54am

hattoncracker wrote: »

Yeah.. Life isn't as black and white as they make it out to be. They make it seem like such an easy thing to just carry a baby to term and give it up for adoption. Women with unwanted pregnancies shouldn't be seen as an incubator.

While personally I am pro-choice, I don't think there's any point arguing about abortion tbh. It has been done to death and realistically, no matter how much thought behind your belief, no matter how well-written your post, you're not gonna change somebody else's mind. And that's okay. Well, I think it's okay.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 2:54am

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Personally, I think pro-lifers are scum and have eradicated them from my circle of friends. Someone asked me to sign a pro-life petition on the street the other day and the only thing that stopped me from spitting in his face was that I wasn't alone.

With such an intolerant, entirely close minded, and borderline violent attitude like that, I imagine your circle of friends was fairly small to begin with.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 2:56am

hattoncracker...you claim that you're respectful of all positions in life, and yet another poster claims to want to spit in the faces of pro-lifers, and you thank the post. Doesn't sound like you're all that respectful and open to me. It seems that hysterical antagonism isn't just confined to the loony fringes of the pro-life movement.

hattoncracker · 22-02-2012 3:02am

Einhard wrote: »

hattoncracker...you claim that you're respectful of all positions in life, and yet another poster claims to want to spit in the faces of pro-lifers, and you thank the post. Doesn't sound like you're all that respectful and open to me. It seems that hysterical antagonism isn't just confined to the loony fringes of the pro-life movement.

Thats her opinion.. I agree with it to an extent. But I would never spit in someones face. Im a huge believer in the right to free speech, but thats not what im asking here. Im not asking people for that, I'm asking what you would say if someone told you they'd had one. Would that change your opinion of them, or of abortion?

Einhard · 22-02-2012 3:07am

hattoncracker wrote: »

Thats her opinion.. I agree with it to an extent. But I would never spit in someones face. Im a huge believer in the right to free speech, but thats not what im asking here. Im not asking people for that, I'm asking what you would say if someone told you they'd had one. Would that change your opinion of them, or of abortion?

I don't believe that abortion should be freely available. Yes, it should be an option when the life or health of the mother is threatened, but not otherwise.

That said, I'm not a zealot on the matter. I know people who have had abortions. They were kind, loving people before they had the procedure, and they were kind, loving people after they had the procedure. I was disappointed they had it, but it didn't change my opinion of them. I certainly didn't want to "eradicate" them from my circle of friends or wish to spit in their face.

Nervous Wreck · 22-02-2012 3:17am

Einhard wrote: »

With such an intolerant, entirely close minded, and borderline violent attitude like that, I imagine your circle of friends was fairly small to begin with.

I am completely intolerant of people wanting to have a control over what women do with their own bodies, yes.

hattoncracker wrote: »

Thats her opinion.. I agree with it to an extent.

His.

Mollikins · 22-02-2012 3:22am

I don’t have much of a problem with abortion itself. I don’t agree with it but at the same time I don’t think I’d judge someone else for having one. It’s not a decision a woman takes lightly and it’s likely she has a very good reason for doing so. But what I do have a problem with is women using it as a method of contraception. It’s on the increase and it’s very disturbing to hear of such stories.

Also the 24 week cut off point needs to be revised. So many babies are being born earlier and earlier and surviving thanks to advances in medicine. I know of 2 babies born severely premature (23 and 26 weeks) that are getting stronger everyday and are most definitely going to survive. The little baby born at 23 weeks legally could have been aborted if that was his mothers wish. And that is so incredibly wrong.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 3:25am

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I am completely intolerant of people wanting to have a control over what women do with their own bodies, yes.

It's all too easy to paint any contrary view as being fundamentalist and essentially misogynistic. Ironically, when you do so, you come across as just as intolerant and small minded as the people you rail against.

It's funny that in a thread started to discuss the hatefulness of pro-life loonies, you are the one who comes across as most full of bile.

I suppose I should be glad that the internet allows people to state a position without being spat on by people like you.

hattoncracker · 22-02-2012 3:31am

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Einhard wrote: »

With such an intolerant, entirely close minded, and borderline violent attitude like that, I imagine your circle of friends was fairly small to begin with.

I am completely intolerant of people wanting to have a control over what women do with their own bodies, yes.

hattoncracker wrote: »

Thats her opinion.. I agree with it to an extent.

His.

My apologies..

And once and for all, this Is thread on how you would feel if someone you know had one and told you about it.. Its not about pro-lifers, abortion views, but it Is about how you view someone after the decision had been made and the deed had been done..

amacachi · 22-02-2012 3:33am

Einhard wrote: »

It's all too easy to paint any contrary view as being fundamentalist and essentially misogynistic. Ironically, when you do so, you come across as just as intolerant and small minded as the people you rail against.

That's exactly why any attempt at discussion about abortion (and some other topics) always descend into the exact same kind of shouting match.

Nervous Wreck · 22-02-2012 3:34am

Einhard wrote: »

It's all too easy to paint any contrary view as being fundamentalist and essentially misogynistic.

Even easier when it's true, tbf.

Anyway, as per this:

hattoncracker wrote: »

Im not asking people for that, I'm asking what you would say if someone told you they'd had one. Would that change your opinion of them, or of abortion?

We've gone wildly off topic.

To answer your question, OP, I have at least one friend who's had an abortion and it didn't change anything about my opinion of her cos it's none of my business. Apologies for derailing, I'm off!

Einhard · 22-02-2012 3:35am

hattoncracker wrote: »

My apologies..

And once and for all, this Is thread on how you would feel if someone you know had one and told you about it.. Its not about pro-lifers, abortion views, but it Is about how you view someone after the decision had been made and the deed had been done..

Well, as I said, I've been in that situation, and when asked for my opinion I gave it honestly- I didn't agree with their choice. My opinion of the persons didn't change because of their decision, and the thought that someone would react as that woman (karma etc) you referred to in your post is abhorrent.

MrStuffins · 22-02-2012 3:39am

Einhard wrote: »

Well, as I said, I've been in that situation, and when asked for my opinion I gave it honestly- I didn't agree with their choice. My opinion of the persons didn't change because of their decision, and the thought that someone would react as that woman (karma etc) you referred to in your post is abhorrent.

May I ask why it is exactly you don't think a woman should be allowed terminate her pregnancy?

jill_valentine · 22-02-2012 3:41am

Wouldn't change my opinion of somebody. I don't think I'd have one personally, but I am very fiercely pro choice.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 3:44am

MrStuffins wrote: »

May I ask why it is exactly you don't think a woman should be allowed terminate her pregnancy?

You can but a response would drag the thread even further off topic.

MrStuffins · 22-02-2012 3:48am

When I was younger, my best friend and his girlfriend at the time found themselves in the situation where she was a few weeks pregnant and they were both young, dumb and unemployed. There was also other big reasons which I won't go into here. After A LOT of soul searching, they decided they couldn't have the child so decided to have an abortion.

So, they travelled, the abortion was performed, and they came back. it was a tough thing to go through but they kept it secret, from everybody. The only person who knew was me as I was his best mate and I was very very close to them as a couple as well. I was also there throughout the whole process of their decision as to what they should do.

So, after a while we're all out and about having a few drinks and the girl decided she needs to tell somebody. SO she tells her best mate.

Her reaction was incredible! This girl who had been her best mate since they were kids flipped out. She NEVER asked about the circumstances, she didn't care about her mate, it was like a switch was flipped and she started screaming calling her "A murdering bitch" etc. it was like she was pre-programmed to say "Murder" when she heard the word "Abortion". They actually never spoke again.

Some people will let their pre-conceived ideas about a certain subject ruin lifelong relationships! it's terrible

johnners2981 · 22-02-2012 3:49am

Einhard wrote: »

You can but a response would drag the thread even further off topic.

Ah go on

hattoncracker · 22-02-2012 3:53am

MrStuffins wrote: »

When I was younger, my best friend and his girlfriend at the time found themselves in the situation where she was a few weeks pregnant and they were both young, dumb and unemployed. There was also other big reasons which I won't go into here. After A LOT of soul searching, they decided they couldn't have the child so decided to have an abortion.

So, they travelled, the abortion was performed, and they came back. it was a tough thing to go through but they kept it secret, from everybody. The only person who knew was me as I was his best mate and I was very very close to them as a couple as well. I was also there throughout the whole process of their decision as to what they should do.

So, after a while we're all out and about having a few drinks and the girl decided she needs to tell somebody. SO she tells her best mate.

Her reaction was incredible! This girl who had been her best mate since they were kids flipped out. She NEVER asked about the circumstances, she didn't care about her mate, it was like a switch was flipped and she started screaming calling her "A murdering bitch" etc. it was like she was pre-programmed to say "Murder" when she heard the word "Abortion". They actually never spoke again.

Some people will let their pre-conceived ideas about a certain subject ruin lifelong relationships! it's terrible

My friend is in a similar position, cant tell her best friend because she knows how she will be treated. Keeps it all in. Her bfs friends and family all know and are fine with it. Her mum knows and thats it, she's had to keep it from everyone.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 3:54am

hattoncracker wrote: »

My friend is in a similar position, cant tell her best friend because she knows how she will be treated. Keeps it all in. Her bfs friends and family all know and are fine with it. Her mum knows and thats it, she's had to keep it from everyone.

To be honest, if her best friend would react in that way, then she's not much of a friend.

hattoncracker · 22-02-2012 3:56am

Einhard wrote: »

hattoncracker wrote: »

My friend is in a similar position, cant tell her best friend because she knows how she will be treated. Keeps it all in. Her bfs friends and family all know and are fine with it. Her mum knows and thats it, she's had to keep it from everyone.

To be honest, if her best friend would react in that way, then she's not much of a friend.

it's easy to say that but she's known the girl for 18 years..

MrStuffins · 22-02-2012 3:58am

Einhard wrote: »

To be honest, if her best friend would react in that way, then she's not much of a friend.

Lazy stock answer! You haven't thought this statement through.

You can have a best mate who you love but you just can't stand by through everything.

Example: If i found out my mate was some sort of serious serious criminal guilty of heinous crimes, i'm not sure I could or should just forget that and blindly continue to stand by this person just because they are my "friend".

The problem is, some people have been given this silly notion that terminating a pregnancy, no matter how far gone the mother might be, is equal to the murder of a human being.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 4:02am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Lazy stock answer! You haven't thought this statement through.

You can have a best mate who you love but you just can't stand by through everything.

Example: If i found out my mate was some sort of serious serious criminal guilty of heinous crimes, i'm not sure I could or should just forget that and blindly continue to stand by this person just because they are my "friend".

The problem is, some people have been given this silly notion that terminating a pregnancy, no matter how far gone the mother might be, is equal to the murder of a human being.

I think my comment was pretty reasonable given the circumstances. If you have a best friend that, on finding out that you had an abortion, resorts to abusing you and calling you a murderer, then you should probably think long and hard about that friendship. That kind of abuse shouldn't be acceptable from anyone, let alone a so-called best friend.

Unless you think being harangued and called a murderer is a solid basis for friendship?

Incidentally, just because you disagree with a point, doesn't make it "lazy" or knee jerk.

MrStuffins · 22-02-2012 4:07am

Einhard wrote: »

I think my comment was pretty reasonable given the circumstances. If you have a best friend that, on finding out that you had an abortion, resorts to abusing you and calling you a murderer, then you should probably think long and hard about that friendship. That kind of abuse shouldn't be acceptable from anyone, let alone a so-called best friend.

Sorry but this is another lazy stock answer. I'm not sure you're fully thinking through these scenarios!

It's not a question of the friend failing to live up to their friendship duties, it's a case of ignorance of the part of the friend (no doubt fueled by pro-life rubbish) that having an abortion after a few weeks is equal to the murder of a human being.

I mean, if it was a case that the girl had in fact murdered a small child, I don't think you'd be saying "Oh, well if her friend didn't stick by her even though she had murdered a small child then she's not a real friend and she shouldn't have to put up with her friend screaming at her".

Einhard · 22-02-2012 4:08am

hattoncracker wrote: »

it's easy to say that but she's known the girl for 18 years..

Yeah, but of she's afraid to tell her friend, not because she's afraid that she'll simply disagree with her choice, but because she fears that her friend will abuse her, then I'd question whether the friendship is as solidly based as it might have appeared. To heap abuse on someone else is, in my opinion anyway, always wrong. I don't understand how strangers could react in such a mannerm let alone friends.

MrStuffins · 22-02-2012 4:09am

Einhard wrote: »

Incidentally, just because you disagree with a point, doesn't make it "lazy" or knee jerk.

I didn't see this edit until now.

My disagreeing with the point is not the reason I think it's lazy. It's a stock answer. You aven't fully thought through the scenario IMO.

hattoncracker · 22-02-2012 4:12am

IMO friends are more ready to judge you.. They feel they've earned the right to after knowing you for so long. And some people think that their opinions in life will matter in a decision like this but at the end of the day, your friends will not be giving birth and bringing up your kid so their opinion is irrelevant in the decision making, but can make a world of difference afterwards.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 4:13am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Sorry but this is another lazy stock answer. I'm not sure you're fully thinking through these scenarios!

It's not a question of the friend failing to live up to their friendship duties, it's a case of ignorance of the part of the friend (no doubt fueled by pro-life rubbish) that having an abortion after a few weeks is equal to the murder of a human being.

I mean, if it was a case that the girl had in fact murdered a small child, I don't think you'd be saying "Oh, well if her friend didn't stick by her even though she had murdered a small child then she's not a real friend and she shouldn't have to put up with her friend screaming at her".

Again MrStuffins, if you disagree with my points, fair enough. Please stop referring to them as lazy stock answers though. I think we can disagree and still treat each other with a degree of courtesy.

Now, to your point...nowhere have I stated that this girl should stick by her friend, or else she can't be counted as a friend. I'm afraid that you've invented that entirely. I stated that if the friends response is to hurl abuse, then she should question the friendship.

Unless you believe that friendships can survive when one party to that union goes around abusing the other, and referring to him/her as a murderer? I'm not sure I'd share your equanimity were one of my friends to refer to me in such a manner.

Einhard · 22-02-2012 4:15am

MrStuffins wrote: »

I didn't see this edit until now.

My disagreeing with the point is not the reason I think it's lazy. It's a stock answer. You aven't fully thought through the scenario IMO.

I have: one friend thinks the other is a murderer and refers to her as such. Not exactly sure how the relationship can proceed beyond that.

Kooli · 22-02-2012 9:31am

the posters here who say they would be supportive or not judge, I wonder if there is some judgement going on internally.

I say this because people who say they wouldn't judge another always feel they have to qualify it with 'I wouldn't have an abortion myself but...' or they say they wouldn't judge because 'It's none of my business' (rather than I wouldn't judge because I don't believe it's wrong)

lazygal · 22-02-2012 9:32am

Back on topic, I used to be very anti-abortion. I don't know if that's the same as pro life because I always believed in a rape victim being able to secure a safe, legal abortion in Ireland and that the failure to legislate on the X case was appalling. But as I've gotten older I guess I've realised life isn't always black and white.

Some people don't want to have children and its virtually impossible for a single women to have her tubes tied in Ireland so even the most assiduous users of contraception can be caught out. Married couples in Ireland can't give their children up for adoption so what does a married couple who has an unwanted pregnancy do? Hold on and hope they'll come around after the birth? What about a family with a child with severe illness or special needs where another child is impossible to care for?

I'm pregnant myself and i didn't realise how worried I was about everything being okay with my baby until I had my 20 week anomaly scan. If I was a public patient that is ALL the scans I would have had to that point (I am private so luckily have had a few scans along the way). So a major anomaly with the brain etc, rendering the fetus unviable, would only have been picked up at 20 weeks and then we'd have had to decide what to do. Then we'd have had to make a decision and if we wanted to terminate we'd have to go abroad, necessitating time and money. We'd probably have had to tell our workplaces we needed force majeur leave or sick leave, and then probably wouldn't be able to tell anyone about it because the image people have of abortion (i had it myself) is of a feckless couple or woman who couldn't be arsed using a condom. I'd have had to have a serious medical procedure abroad.

I find pro-life people are usually pro life until the baby comes. Are Youth Defence going to raise an unwanted child for a women? Going to give her financial, emotional and practical support? I don't think so, once the baby is here they don't give a sh!t about it and I'd wager a lot of those groups are the same.

Maple · 22-02-2012 3:53pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Personally, I think pro-lifers are scum and have eradicated them from my circle of friends. Someone asked me to sign a pro-life petition on the street the other day and the only thing that stopped me from spitting in his face was that I wasn't alone.

NW, dial it back. I wholly appreciate this is an emotive topic but there no need for such vehemence, advocating spitting in anyone's face just isn't acceptable.

Maple

g'em · 22-02-2012 4:04pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have met many women who for various reasons had abortions. I can't say the knowledge ever changed my view of them. I personally wouldn't have an abortion but I support the right to choose and it is not my place to judge.

I know of a couple of women who have had abortions and after finding out I have to say it did change my opinion of them - I realised how brave and strong they are and I have nothing but admiration for making what must be one of the most difficult choices a woman could ever go through. My friends choices are their own, my views on abortion have nothing to do with it really (although as it happens I think the right decisions were made all round).

I can see why some posters are saying that friendship can at times be dependent on that friends' actions but where my absolute best and closest friends are concerned, the ones I would trust with my life and me theirs, I don't think there's much that could make me cut them out of my life. I may not always agree with them, but I love them unconditionally.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Her reaction was incredible! This girl who had been her best mate since they were kids flipped out. She NEVER asked about the circumstances, she didn't care about her mate, it was like a switch was flipped and she started screaming calling her "A murdering bitch" etc. it was like she was pre-programmed to say "Murder" when she heard the word "Abortion". They actually never spoke again.

Some people will let their pre-conceived ideas about a certain subject ruin lifelong relationships! it's terrible

I read an amazing book a while ago that talked about how our reactions to other people are a mirror to how we see ourselves. While I have every sympathy for your friend and the horrible dilemma she found herself in, the reaction her friend has had genuinely says more about her and her own intolerance, ignorance and lack of compassion. It may take a while but she'll realise she's most likely better off.

KittyeeTrix · 22-02-2012 4:16pm

hattoncracker wrote: »

Thats her opinion.. I agree with it to an extent. But I would never spit in someones face. Im a huge believer in the right to free speech, but thats not what im asking here. Im not asking people for that, I'm asking what you would say if someone told you they'd had one. Would that change your opinion of them, or of abortion?

My opinion of someone who had an abortion would depend on the circumstances for the abortion in the first place.

Personally I think they should be made legal in this country but at the same time would not be in favour of someone who would not take the necessary precautions to prevent pregnancy as much as they could in the first case.

jinxremoving · 22-02-2012 4:18pm

I actually cant believe someone would be so insensitive to call their 'friend' a murderer if they lost a baby, regardless of whether or not she might have considered an abortion.

I also cant get my head around people saying things like abortion is only ok if the woman has been raped, or its ok but it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. to me, these seem needlessly moralising and definitely are too simplistic. Every situation is different and I personally believe every woman has the right to choose and should be free from judgements of 1- people who don't know anything about her situation and 2 - people who do know the situation and still think it there place to comment + think worse of them

KittyeeTrix · 22-02-2012 4:20pm

Kooli wrote: »

the posters here who say they would be supportive or not judge, I wonder if there is some judgement going on internally.

I say this because people who say they wouldn't judge another always feel they have to qualify it with 'I wouldn't have an abortion myself but...' or they say they wouldn't judge because 'It's none of my business' (rather than I wouldn't judge because I don't believe it's wrong)

I would be one of those people who would say 'I wouldn't have an abortion myself but...

This is because I've had 4 children but have never found myself in the position of needing or wanting an abortion. I've always had my partner/support and my health has never been a question.

That is why I'd answer that way.............I don't know if the tables were turned and I felt the need for an abortion would it still necessarily be the answer for me.

Da Shins Kelly · 22-02-2012 5:16pm

I don't know if I'd have the emotional strength myself to go through with it, and if I did manage to do it, it would bother me for the rest of my life I think, and it's definitely not something I would take lightly. That said, I don't think it's something any woman takes lightly, and it certainly wouldn't affect my opinion of someone if they told me they'd had an abortion. It must be such an incredibly traumatising experience, and I would never judge someone who went through with it, and it's offensive to me that there are women who are demonised and villified for making such a heartbreaking decision. I completely support a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body without being treated as some sort of criminal. The body, after all, is probably one of the only things we really have to ourselves completely, and taking away someone's freedom to what they like with their own body is violative and an invasion of privacy, in my opinion.

Scarinae · 22-02-2012 5:29pm

hattoncracker wrote: »

I have a friend who considered, but didn't have an abortion. She lost the baby at 13 weeks, and one of her friends who knew that she had considered it and is very pro life told her it was karma, and that she deserved to loose it, and that she and her bf were murderers.

:eek: What a truly awful thing to say!

hattoncracker wrote: »

I'm just wondering, what would you say if you met someone who openly told you she had an abortion because she wasn't capable of raising a child and didn't want to give up her job, education, etc? Would you think she was a horrible person? Or would you be able to look past her actions and not judge her on it?

I probably wouldn't say anything, I'd probably give them a hug. I wouldn't think they were a horrible person and I wouldn't judge them, it's a really difficult thing to go through especially if you're keeping it to yourself because you're anticipating hysterical reactions from people.

One of my friends here in London had an abortion a year ago. I said that I'd go with her, but the appointment was on a day I absolutely had to be in work so another friend went with her instead. I saw firsthand how hard it was for her to make that decision, and I know she still thinks about it sometimes - a few months ago she mentioned to me that it was around the time she would have given birth if she'd kept the baby - but it was ultimately her decision and it's nobody else's business really.

seenitall · 22-02-2012 5:32pm

KittyeeTrix wrote: »

I would be one of those people who would say 'I wouldn't have an abortion myself but...

This is because I've had 4 children but have never found myself in the position of needing or wanting an abortion. I've always had my partner/support and my health has never been a question.

That is why I'd answer that way.............I don't know if the tables were turned and I felt the need for an abortion would it still necessarily be the answer for me.

Is that you, fluffyorganic??

(Apologies if mistaken, just looking at the location and the no. of children...

)

Mods changing usernames does mess with my head.

KittyeeTrix · 22-02-2012 5:42pm

seenitall wrote: »

Is that you, fluffyorganic??

(Apologies if mistaken, just looking at the location and the no. of children... )

Mods changing usernames does mess with my head.

Yeah, it's me......We got a kitten last August so I'm now crazy cat lady....:D

back on topic.....to answer the OP's question. I''ve known girls who've had abortions and no, it hasn't changed my opinion of them one bit!

tiny_penguin · 22-02-2012 5:47pm

I know people who have had abortions and I have not judged them at all for their decisions. Regardless of my own feelings on the matter its their choice and I dont think that people make the decision lightly.

However I worked with one girl who told us she had had 3 abortions - and she still was not careful with contraception. She would joke about forgetting to take her pill and said she did not like condoms. While I did not judge her decision to have abortions I did judge her stupidity and lifestyle choices that put her in those situations. Though she was not someone I knew well or would class a friend so I never made her aware of this. Only urged her to be a little more careful for her own sake.

I would hope that I don't find myself in the situation where having an abortion is something that needs to be considered - at this stage in my life I would hope I could handle a crisis pregnancy and look after a child and obviously I hope I do not find myself pregnant as a result of rape. However I do not know how I would react to a crisis pregnancy - or how my circumstances might change in the future that would make me unable to look after a child. I fully believe you dont truly know what you would do unless you are in the situation. But like I said, what I would or would not do is irrelevent to my non judgement of others.

neuro-praxis · 22-02-2012 6:12pm

I am very distressed by abortion and completely against it.

I do have people in my life that have had abortions and it doesn't affect how much I love them.

However I would not hold someone's hand as they went through the process of an abortion. Some people might judge me for that but I would be a hypocrite if I did.

I would be willing to hold their hand afterwards, and love them and support them. But I could never be in favour of what they had done because it would go against my very nature.

Wibbs · 22-02-2012 6:20pm

tiny_penguin wrote: »

I fully believe you dont truly know what you would do unless you are in the situation. But like I said, what I would or would not do is irrelevent to my non judgement of others.

This. Personally I'd not judge either pro life or pro choice people. Life is too short. If I have an overly vehement reaction to someone's opinions I usually step back and ask myself why, because in me is where I'll usually find the answer.

Personally? As TP pointed out opinions such as they are tend to be upset when actually faced with reality, so any opinion I might have at the moment is conjecture, a philosophy if you will. However(and again personally) outside of the yays or nays I do take issue where the potential father is not consulted on the matter, indeed considered by some extraneous to the proceedings(obviously outside abuse/rape type scenarios). A friend of a friends partner had an abortion and he only found out after the fact about the pregnancy and subsequent termination. They stayed together(though to be frank why sprang to mind). Then around two years later she fell pregnant again and this time decided to go to term and keep the child and he was left in no confusion that she expected him to provide for her and the child. Again no consultation on the matter. In that case and I agree it is somewhat of an extreme, my response would be two words involving sex and travel. Her body and right to do with it as she pleased? Maybe even certainly, but don't expect me to pay for or guilt me into any unilateral decisions you may make on behalf of it. That dog won't hunt. Some sort of equivalence might be a guy who unilaterally decides to get the snip and doesn't tell his partner. After all it's his body to do with as he pleases right? Eh no, sod off mate.

Neyite · 22-02-2012 6:31pm

My thinking on this issue has evolved over the years - I started off in my teens as utterly pro-life (thanks to seeing the horrific pictures that the pro-life movement like to show).

Then the X- Case came along when I was 16 and Ireland had a suicidal child pregnant as a result of being raped by a pedophile challenge the issue and some people changed their view to "as long as its to save the life of the mother or if the fetus was unviable" I agreed with that view then.

however, as more and more of my friends faced crisis pregnancies, some with no support from family, or a partner, or maybe through no fault of their own contraception failed and I saw that it is not as black and white as I had initially thought, and saw that there are many reasons for a woman choosing to make such a difficult decision.

Then a few months ago on the thread "your right to an abortion, NomdePlume posted this:

This isn't about the right to life, then. It's not about the foetus at all; it's about the woman, her level of fault, and her comeuppance.

If it's your fault that you got pregnant, you must endure the pregnancy or be termed a murderer. You are not allowed off the hook.

If it's not your fault, because you were raped, you are entitled to an abortion. We won't term you a murderer because, well, you weren't a slut.
In other words, we never really considered it murder; we just use that word to shame the girls we don't like.

So this shaped my thinking even more on the issue. I believe now that the circumstances of a crisis pregnancy are irrelevant. An unwanted pregnancy is an unwanted pregnancy, irrespective of how the baby was concieved.

I have never been in the situation where I was facing a crisis pregnancy. My first positive test was one that was long awaited and the happiest news for my partner and I.

However, I do believe that counselling services should be provided in tandem with any abortions performed and I believe that early scans get re-introduced into our maternity units - this 20+ weeks for a first scan is ludicrous - I was visibly pregnant and baby moving at that stage.

I could not judge a friend for making that decision. To me, friendship is accepting a person unjudgementally.

krudler · 22-02-2012 6:41pm

Wouldnt affect my view of someone at all, I know one person who had an abortion, I dont know the exact details just that she had one, I didnt ask as its absolutely none of my business and doesnt affect my friendship with her in the slightest, its not an easy choice to make no matter what the situation I'd imagine. life isnt always as black and white as "oh well you should've used protection" no contraceptive is 100%, my sister was on the pill when she got pregnant, condoms break etc. if someone has taken precautions to avoid a pregnancy and get pregnant long before they ever plan having a child or want to have them at all and decide to have an abortion then thats their choice.

bronte · 22-02-2012 6:44pm

Think it should be legal.
Wouldn't judge anyone for having one.
Wouldn't tolerate judgement from others if I had one.

lazygal wrote: »

I find pro-life people are usually pro life until the baby comes. Are Youth Defence going to raise an unwanted child for a women? Going to give her financial, emotional and practical support? I don't think so, once the baby is here they don't give a sh!t about it and I'd wager a lot of those groups are the same.

This is something I've noticed recently.
A lot of the time it's about controlling the woman and nothing else.

neuro-praxis · 22-02-2012 7:06pm

bronte wrote: »

This is something I've noticed recently.
A lot of the time it's about controlling the woman and nothing else.

You may well be right here. But I would gladly, gladly take the unwanted child of anyone who felt they could not raise it. I sincerely mean that.

A Mere Mention of Abortion.

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