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Using Round abouts.

  • 05-04-2012 4:14pm
    #1
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭


    The rules.

    If you are exiting at the first or second exit be in the outside lane.

    Any other exit be in the inside lane.

    This is particularly important when the roundabout has two lanes leading on and one leading off (like the one at the top of Charlesland when heading in the Killincarraig or Kilcoole direction)

    <<<snip>>> I would have thought common sense would dictate that passing out on a roundabout is not a good idea anyway.


Comments

  • #2
    cuddlycavies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭cuddlycavies


    If everyone insisted on using the outside line for going straight on at that intersection (and of course bigger ones like Loughlinstown) Traffic build up would be chaos. So long as people do not turn right whilst in the left lane(common occurence in Ireland) I'm happy with that.


  • #3
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    It's not a suggestion.

    If your taking the first or second exit you must be in the outside lane.

    You are correct as regards taking the 3rd, 4th exit etc. you must be in the inside lane.

    It is not optional.

    Forgive me If I have misunderstood what you said.

    If anyone doubts me they can check the road safety authority or any insurance company.


  • #4
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    Huntthe wrote: »
    It's not a suggestion.

    If your taking the first or second exit you must be in the outside lane.

    You are correct as regards taking the 3rd, 4th exit etc. you must be in the inside lane.

    It is not optional.

    Forgive me If I have misunderstood what you said.

    If anyone doubts me they can check the road safety authority or any insurance company.

    There are exceptions, example where the left lane has an arrow for you to exit left at the first exit only, then other traffic who intend going on straight must use the righthand lane. As at the roundabout at the the Greystones side of Southern Cross , Bray. Also at the roundabout when you leave the N11 and wish to travel towards Bray at the roundabout at Hills Garage, Kilcroney.


  • #5
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    Yes , they are exceptions. Unless an exception is indicated proceed as outlined above. Use your noggin and me and my family won't be at risk. Gracias :)


  • #6
    ciaran67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ciaran67


    Indicators would be nice as well :)


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  • #7
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    ciaran67 wrote: »
    Indicators would be nice as well :)

    In this country indicators are only used to confuse the enemy.:D


  • #8
    noital
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭noital


    If the left lane is blocked, so, if there is any obstruction, such as a car even, then you are permitted to use the inside lane to take the second exit/straight on if you like!


  • #9
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    Yes, I think that would come under the heading 'Use your noggin'


  • #10
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Huntthe wrote: »
    The rules.

    If you are exiting at the first or second exit be in the outside lane.

    Any other exit be in the inside lane.
    Huntthe wrote: »
    It's not a suggestion.

    If your taking the first or second exit you must be in the outside lane.

    You are correct as regards taking the 3rd, 4th exit etc. you must be in the inside lane.

    It is not optional.
    Maybe in France, but in this country we use the inside lane for first/second exit :pac:
    No wonder they are all beeping at you.


  • #11
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    recedite wrote: »
    Maybe in France, but in this country we use the inside lane for first/second exit :pac:
    No wonder they are all beeping at you.

    Recidite, that's not even funny, tell me you are joking.

    Using the inside lane for the first (visualise it) or second exit is incorrect and dangerous.


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  • #12
    .243
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭.243


    Huntthe wrote: »
    Recidite, that's not even funny, tell me you are joking.

    Using the inside lane for the first (visualise it) or second exit is incorrect and dangerous.
    just for claification on this,
    which lane do you precieve as the inside lane,
    left lane or right lane ???,


  • #13
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    Good point.

    The inside lane is the right hand lane.The outside lane is the left lane.


  • #14
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,610 ✭✭✭eigrod


    .243 wrote: »
    just for claification on this,
    which lane do you precieve as the inside lane,
    left lane or right lane ???,

    Either he/she's on a wind-up, or he/she means the left hand lane. Surely?


  • #15
    .243
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭.243


    Huntthe wrote: »
    Good point.

    The inside lane is the right hand lane.The outside lane is the left lane.
    ahh,thats where the confusion lies,but you are incorrect
    the right hand lane(over taking lane) on a dual carraige way is the "outside lane",
    the left lane or(driving lane)is the inside lane,


  • #16
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,684 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    eh, inside lane is the left lane (also called Lane 1). Outside lane on a two lane carriage way is the right lane (Lane 2).

    Anyway, we had this type of thread last year - is the problem seasonal?!

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  • #17
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    Yes I can see that I may have caused confusion there. I meant the left lane as the outside and the right lane as the inside.


  • #18
    JanneG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭JanneG


    astrofluff wrote: »
    Anyway, we had this type of thread last year - is the problem seasonal?!

    Damn those migrating birds and their inability to properly navigate through roundabouts!!!


  • #19
    poldebruin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭poldebruin


    Just to throw it out there - surely the Farankelly road has two lanes going towards the N-11. and either inside or outside lane can be used to enter onto it no matter if you're hitting the roundabout from greystones side or kilcoole?

    The old rule of thumb (i think) was that if your exit was at 12 o'clock or further from you, you used the right hand lane - any earlier and you used the left (unless otherwise marked in the road)


  • #20
    cuddlycavies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭cuddlycavies


    My point earlier was that yes, most of us do this. But it is illlegal unless 1.there is an obstuction, 2. The left lane has an arrow denoting left turn only 3. You are instructed by a garda. having said that. I've never heard of anyone getting booked for this. Although if a clown were to cut across you, i.e. turning right from left land, you would not necessarily be in the right when claiming. Ridiculous, but true.
    http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html


  • #21
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Huntthe wrote: »
    It's not a suggestion.

    If your taking the first or second exit you must be in the outside lane.

    You are correct as regards taking the 3rd, 4th exit etc. you must be in the inside lane.

    It is not optional.

    Forgive me If I have misunderstood what you said.

    If anyone doubts me they can check the road safety authority or any insurance company.


    I hate to break this to you OP, but you are actually incorrect. This information has already been checked with the RSA in a thread in motors forum.

    Thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70360400
    RSA Response - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70800115&postcount=706

    The are no rules for roundabouts that use the 1st, 2nd, 3rd designation.. There were examples previously used by the RSA which utilised a 4 exit roundabout and applied 1st, 2nd terminology to highlight which exit for that particular roundabout should be used, but that was never intended as a general rule for all roundabouts (and I believe it has now been withdrawn from use due to the confusion in favour of a 3oclock, 6 oclock etc designation).

    The simple rule the RSA recommends using is Left lane for all exits up the 12 o clock position (straight ahead) and Right Lane for all exits afterwards unless road marking dictate otherwise.

    The thread previously mentioned showed a roundabout with the first exit at 10 o'clock, and the second exit at 2 o'clock.. The RSA and several Garda confirmed that approaching in the Right hand lane was correct procedure, which is obviously contrary to the "rule" you are quoting.


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  • #22
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    I should have used 'left' and 'right' lane not inside and outside when making my point.

    This is correct and a better explanation than I provided.

    The simple rule the RSA recommends using is Left lane for all exits up to the 12 o clock position (straight ahead) and Right Lane for all exits afterwards unless road marking dictate otherwise.

    As cuddlycavies says lots of people use the right lane to go 12 0'clock. This is wrong and if you have an accident while doing this the insurance company will find against you. Yesterday at the farrankelly roundabout I was going 12 0'clock from the kilcoole direction towards Killincarraig. As I was pulling off a car pulled into the right hand lane beside me and proceeded to overtake on the roundabout. When we reached the other side where there is one lane there was nearly an accident . She was in the wrong but judging from the hand gestures did not know this.


  • #23
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,684 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Welease wrote: »
    The thread previously mentioned showed a roundabout with the first exit at 10 o'clock, and the second exit at 2 o'clock.. The RSA and several Garda confirmed that approaching in the Right hand lane was correct procedure, which is obviously contrary to the "rule" you are quoting.

    Exactly the procedure to use on the SAR coming towards the swimming pool roundabout. Left lane for Swimming pool/rugby club, and right lane for Greystones.

    Nobody has talked about indicating yet...these threads usually cover indicating. :rolleyes:

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  • #24
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,684 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Huntthe wrote: »
    As cuddlycavies says lots of people use the right lane to go 12 0'clock. This is wrong and if you have an accident while doing this the insurance company will find against you. Yesterday at the farrankelly roundabout I was going 12 0'clock from the kilcoole direction towards Killincarraig. As I was pulling off a car pulled into the right hand lane beside me and proceeded to overtake on the roundabout. When we reached the other side where there is one lane there was nearly an accident . She was in the wrong but judging from the hand gestures did not know this.

    She was at risk alright chancing a manoeuvre like that, but sometimes some people are impatient, especially with slow drivers ahead of them...

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  • #25
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    astrofluff wrote: »
    She was at risk alright chancing a manoeuvre like that, but sometimes some people are impatient, especially with slow drivers ahead of them...

    Impatience is one thing. Wreckless driving is another .
    However, In this case I feel it was down to genuine ignorance and lack of common sense. The roads where quiet.


  • #26
    Taltos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    I find this very useful.
    http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

    It also shows that when proceding straight through a roundabout both lanes can be used - the key thing when leaving the roundabout is what lane to exit into. - Graphcs help alot as described below by Huntthe.


  • #27
    Huntthe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Huntthe


    Taltos wrote: »
    I find this very useful.
    http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

    It also shows that when proceding straight through a roundabout both lanes can be used - the key thing when leaving the roundabout is what lane to exit into. - Graphcs help alot.


    No Taltos, taken from the link you just provided, you may use the right hand lane going straight on only when.
      • the left-hand lane is only for turning left or is blocked or closed, or
      • when directed by a Garda.
    otherwise use the left lane when taking the exit straight ahead.


  • #28
    Taltos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    See clear as a bell :)


  • #29
    hous
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭hous


    agreed...inside land is the furthest left, outside lane furthest right


  • #30
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    No Taltos, taken from the link you just provided, you may use the right hand lane going straight on only when.
    Quote:
    the left-hand lane is only for turning left or is blocked or closed, or
    when directed by a Garda.
    otherwise use the left lane when taking the exit straight ahead.

    Thats a bit vague though. You could say that if there is stopped or slower moving traffic in the left hand lane then then that would cover being blocked which would then allow you to go straight ahead (12 o'clock) using the right hand lane.

    What problems do you foresee if traffic is going straight ahead using the right lane of a two way approach on a duel carriage way? Any cars in the left lane should be going left or straight ahead so as long as a car on the right lane going straight ahead also exist to the right lane then no problems there!


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  • #31
    loobylou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    Jimjay wrote: »
    Thats a bit vague though. You could say that if there is stopped or slower moving traffic in the left hand lane then then that would cover being blocked which would then allow you to go straight ahead (12 o'clock) using the right hand lane.

    What problems do you foresee if traffic is going straight ahead using the right lane of a two way approach on a duel carriage way? Any cars in the left lane should be going left or straight ahead so as long as a car on the right lane going straight ahead also exist to the right lane then no problems there!

    Its not vague at all. The rules of the road say you should be in the left lane when going straight through the roundabout, unless roadmarkings dictate otherwise or EXCEPTIONAL circumstances exist, as quoted earlier.

    Interesting second point though. You seem to suggest that its OK to be in the incorrect lane going straight through because nobody else will/should/might be in the incorrect lane while turning right.

    If everybody were to obey the current rules, local anomalies could or should be sorted out by local authorities.
    Instead we have a situation where people decide which rules of the road they agree with and choose to obey.


  • #32
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    loobylou wrote: »
    Its not vague at all. The rules of the road say you should be in the left lane when going straight through the roundabout, unless roadmarkings dictate otherwise or EXCEPTIONAL circumstances exist, as quoted earlier.

    Interesting second point though. You seem to suggest that its OK to be in the incorrect lane going straight through because nobody else will/should/might be in the incorrect lane while turning right.

    If everybody were to obey the current rules, local anomalies could or should be sorted out by local authorities.
    Instead we have a situation where people decide which rules of the road they agree with and choose to obey.

    I wonder why the rules are different in the uk. The Highway code says use the left lane for turning left, right lane for right and 'appropriate' lane For intermediate exits. To be honest I took my test in uk and was taught that you can go straight on in either left or right lane. I did not know until reading the Irish equivalent to highway code that the rules here were different although I still think if there is traffic in the left lane that would class as exceptional circumstances, there is no way a traffic jam would form at a roundabout if there were two lanes at each side of the roundabout.

    I can't see many guards stopping you. I saw a guarda car drive towards charlesland from town in the left lane, he turned right in to charlesland estate using left lane at roundabout while a car in the right lane was coming out of charlesland turning right and that car almost drove straight in to side of guarda car. Guarda appologies with a nod and wave and dipped head and kept going. This was about a week ago.


  • #33
    loobylou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    Jimjay wrote: »
    I did not know until reading the Irish equivalent to highway code that the rules here were different although I still think if there is traffic in the left lane that would class as exceptional circumstances, there is no way a traffic jam would form at a roundabout if there were two lanes at each side of the roundabout.

    I can't see many guards stopping you. I saw a guarda car drive towards charlesland from town in the left lane, he turned right in to charlesland estate using left lane at roundabout while a car in the right lane was coming out of charlesland turning right and that car almost drove straight in to side of guarda car. Guarda appologies with a nod and wave and dipped head and kept going. This was about a week ago.

    The first rule of the road (in Ireland naturally) is to keep left. Therefore it is unreasonable for you to suggest that traffic in the left lane as being an exceptional circumstance.
    To be fair too, traffic jams are not forming at Greystones roundabouts, although I do accept your point on a more regional level. This though ought to be up the local authorities to rectify on a case by case basis, ie by marking roundabouts appropriately.

    The fact too that Guards are unlikely to stop you does not make what you are doing correct or legal. Most times they just couldn't be a***ed, which in itself perpetuates the problem.

    BTW to keep this relevant locally, last week I had a beauty. From Eden Gate roundabout (where I joined), all along towards Greystones, guy in the right overtaking lane and for the very last roundabout he moved back into the left lane to make a right turn:eek:


  • #34
    cuddlycavies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭cuddlycavies


    If everyone obeyed the 12 o clock left lane only rule. Loughlinstown roundabout would be worse than it is at peak times. a right lane driver poses no threat to the left as long as everyone is staying on the correct side of lane lines. It's a ridiculous rule.


  • #35
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Huntthe wrote: »
    The rules.

    If you are exiting at the first or second exit be in the outside lane.

    Any other exit be in the inside lane.

    Anything before 12 o clock position is left lane, anything after 12 is right lane unless signage dictates otherwise, ie on dual carraigeways confirmed by RSA after a query after this thread topic came up in motors

    exit number does not matter.


  • #36
    loobylou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭loobylou


    cuddlycavies wrote: »
    If everyone obeyed the 12 o clock left lane only rule. Loughlinstown roundabout would be worse than it is at peak times. a right lane driver poses no threat to the left as long as everyone is staying on the correct side of lane lines. It's a ridiculous rule.

    The purpose of roundabouts is to improve traffic flow. If the design of a particular roundabout is not doing that, it is up to the local council to correct that.
    The confusion arises because many people decide that the law is ridiculous and therefore it should not apply to them.
    I agree with you about Loughlinstown roundabout, however the solution is to change the lane markings as opposed to everyone taking the law into their own hands.


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  • #37
    cuddlycavies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 970 ✭✭✭cuddlycavies


    The Australian rules allow 12 o clock straight ahead both lanes too,
    http://www.brisbanedrivingschool.com.au/road_rules/part_9_roundabouts.pdf
    But what would they know?
    They need to learn how to make cardboard licences and allow young people stick an L on a Porsche and drive away without any lessons :-)


  • #38
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Anything before 12 o clock position is left lane, anything after 12 is right lane unless signage dictates otherwise, ie on dual carraigeways confirmed by RSA after a query after this thread topic came up in motors

    exit number does not matter.

    I think we all get that. We are talking about 12oclock as far as i understand, not before 12oclock or after it.


  • #39
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Jimjay wrote: »
    I think we all get that. We are talking about 12oclock as far as i understand, not before 12oclock or after it.

    ah, well up to and including 12 then.


  • #40
    LifeBeginsAt40
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭LifeBeginsAt40


    I passed my test in the UK and also was a qualified motorcycle instructor and the rules were (are?) simple.

    2 lanes in with 2 lanes exit > either lane can be used for straight on unless specifically marked out otherwise.

    Right lane for straight on (only if 2 lanes exit) and turning right only.

    Left lane, turning left or straight on. NEVER EVER turning right, that is, taking an exit beyond what we all understand to be straight ahead (12 o clock).

    You must also give way to traffic ON the roundabout when entering. Except if you happen to drive on the island of Jersey.

    Simple really.


  • #41
    .243
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭.243


    LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »
    I passed my test in the UK and also was a qualified motorcycle instructor and the rules were (are?) simple.

    2 lanes in with 2 lanes exit > either lane can be used for straight on unless specifically marked out otherwise.

    Right lane for straight on (only if 2 lanes exit) and turning right only.

    Left lane, turning left or straight on. NEVER EVER turning right, that is, taking an exit beyond what we all understand to be straight ahead (12 o clock).

    You must also give way to traffic ON the roundabout when entering. Except if you happen to drive on the island of Jersey.

    Simple really.
    spot on
    is the ruling for the island of jersey the same for the roundabouts in france too ??


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  • #42
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    .243 wrote: »
    spot on
    is the ruling for the island of jersey the same for the roundabouts in france too ??

    Lol. I dont think they have rules for the roundabouts in france, even for the ones that seem to have five lanes :-)


  • #43
    LifeBeginsAt40
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭LifeBeginsAt40


    The Jersey rule is alternative give way, so the car on the roundabout gives way and allows one car to enter the roundabout and so on.

    It works well as it prevents the mad long queues to enter a roundabout that has prominent traffic from the right etc.

    One car enters roundabout, one passes on roundabout, the next car enters the roundabout.

    How bl**dy simple is that! Make it a traffic law, enforce it. Job done.


  • #44
    Langerland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭Langerland


    I think the bottom line is that the most frustrating thing about our local (and I suppose nationally) round-abouts, is people driving in the left lane attempting to turn right. It's completely illogical if nothing else.:confused:


  • #45
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    Langerland wrote: »
    I think the bottom line is that the most frustrating thing about our local (and I suppose nationally) round-abouts, is people driving in the left lane attempting to turn right. It's completely illogical if nothing else.:confused:

    Spot on


  • #46
    Mullie
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Mullie


    We're all reading this cause we're responsible, conscientious drivers.
    The problem with cr*p drivers is that they couldn't care less about doing it right and so will never even read a forum like this if they came across it.


  • #47
    LifeBeginsAt40
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭LifeBeginsAt40


    Langerland wrote: »
    I think the bottom line is that the most frustrating thing about our local (and I suppose nationally) round-abouts, is people driving in the left lane attempting to turn right. It's completely illogical if nothing else.:confused:

    As a motorcyclist it is also attempted murder if I'm trying to go straight ahead on a 2 lane in / 2 lane out roundabout.


  • #48
    desoc32
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭desoc32


    The standard of driving around the town is appalling imo. People rarely indicate at junctions nevermind roundabouts. The killincarrig roundabouts are just painted on but that's no excuse for the drivers approaching at speed from Greystones towards (Delgany/killincarrig) the next one. They drive staright across them at speed and no indication so if you're trying to enter the roundabout from kilcoole side they'd nearly crash into you.
    Also another roundabout is the one at Shoreline. Cars coming from Greystones going to Charlesland should get into the left lane and indicate their intention. Cars going straight should be in the right lane and not cut the left lane on the roundabout and signal off when leaving. Approaching the roundabout from Charlesland they have painted arrows giving advanced warnings of what each lane is to be used for. Why can't this be done from both the other sides? (Straight only or right/left only)
    Also if you're taking the last exit or anything after 12.00 you should indicate right to let other motorists know you are going around. Then indicate left before your exit,not at the exit before your exit as then someone will pull out in front of you ie. me!


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