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The Next XBox - Rumour Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    Eh F**k that. I as a games hoarder hate this plan and if its kinect type controller only, I am going Sony.


  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭Zeouterlimits


    Rumour would be a better title than report imo.

    Considering our retail 360 games aren't tied to our accounts like Steam, it would be insanity. With Halo 4 and GTAV coming out this year (we'll see about GTA), it would be crazy to come out in 2013 and not be able to be able to play your copy.

    The PS4 being so different to PS3 worries me that they won't be able to emulate it and therefore no BC there either. Of course a more traditional hardware style and API support, like that in the Vita, is a much much better idea, and will no doubt lead to better ports.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    Rumour would be a better title than report imo.

    Considering our retail 360 games aren't tied to our accounts like Steam, it would be insanity. With Halo 4 and GTAV coming out this year (we'll see about GTA), it would be crazy to come out in 2013 and not be able to be able to play your copy.

    If you read the article, it does mention some way of getting your 360 games on there possibly using some kind of HDD transfer.

    It's certainly a good idea from the point of view of nerfing the 2nd hand market. Interesting, anyways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80,740 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    From the Gob of Gabe:
    So, you know, people were worried when we started using Steam initially because, oh my gosh, if I don’t have my discs what happens when I get a new machine? And after they’ve done this a couple times they’re like “oh my god, this is so much better, I’m so much more likely [...] to lose my discs than I am to have any problem with my Steam account, that seems way better than having a physical token that I use to access my content.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,003 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Andy!! wrote: »

    It's certainly a good idea from the point of view of nerfing the 2nd hand market. Interesting, anyways.

    There going to stimulate the second hand market with a foam football?:confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    There are a number of reasons I see this is a likely possibility.
    1. A propriety flash storage format will be extremely hard to pirate.
    2. Flash memory is dirt cheap compared to what it used to be, when buying in bulk wholesale prices for 8gb chips are just a few dollars and falling all the time.
    3. Games can still be sold through shops as well as downloaded.
    4. Flash memory is writeable allowing Microsoft to permanently link games to accounts and eliminate the second hand market.
    5. Microsoft has no interest in Blu-Ray, unlike Sony it stands to make no profit out of the sale of a Blu-ray film.
    6. Streaming a film directly a Microsoft console however provides tidy little income stream. Without the option of Blu-Ray people are more likely to use the streaming services available.

    I don't think it's a good thing for consumers but it's definitely an attractive option for Microsoft.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,126 ✭✭✭✭calex71


    As others have pointed out in other threads over and over again, this quite simply won't happen.

    Up to 50% of xboxs are not online, people have slow broadband and low data caps and so on. If they went the digital only route then they would lose half of their install base.

    A lot of thinks need to change before a digital content only xbox emerges, and that is not going to change by the time they release the next generation console.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    There going to stimulate the second hand market with a foam football?:confused:

    No, they are going to kill it with one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    People are getting confused.

    No optical disk drive /= download only

    There are other formats available, namely flash memory.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    sink wrote: »
    People are getting confused.

    No optical disk drive /= download only

    There are other formats available, namely flash memory.

    Flash memory versus 50GB dual layer Blu-Rays? No contest.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Flash memory versus 50GB dual layer Blu-Rays? No contest.

    Few games on PS3 use more than 30GB. The maximum capacity of a single flash chip is currently 128GB and doubles every year with theoretical limits of many TB's, while prices continuously fall. You can put more than one chip in a cartridge. Read speeds and access times are infinitely faster with flash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    calex71 wrote: »
    As others have pointed out in other threads over and over again, this quite simply won't happen.

    Up to 50% of xboxs are not online, people have slow broadband and low data caps and so on. If they went the digital only route then they would lose half of their install base.

    A lot of thinks need to change before a digital content only xbox emerges, and that is not going to change by the time they release the next generation console.
    Just because 50% of people don't currently have their xbox connected to the internet doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't do it if they wanted to does it?

    I'm sure their intention is to target the western countries where they can get guaranteed sales.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80,740 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    also think ahead to two years from now. and look two years behind. Ireland enjoys internet speeds right now that you wouldn't have been able to imagine 5 years ago.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    sink wrote: »
    Few games on PS3 use more than 30GB. The maximum capacity of a single flash chip is currently 128GB and doubles every year with theoretical limits of many TB's, while prices continuously fall. You can put more than one chip in a cartridge. Read speeds and access times are infinitely faster with flash.

    Bring back carts!!!!!!!!

    I'm all for this now.

    Hope I get to blow into them if they start reading incorrectly :cool:


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Jacob Howling Teacher


    I would like to see this happen, because I have a good connection and could download GBs in a few hours.

    However, if they offered games for download, they should reduce the price. Right now, the prices of games on Xbox Live Games on Demand are crazy! In some cases is €29.99 for a two year old game I can get for €10-15 pre-owned, and then install that to the hard drive...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭Antar Bolaeisk


    Overheal wrote: »
    also think ahead to two years from now. and look two years behind. Ireland enjoys internet speeds right now that you wouldn't have been able to imagine 5 years ago.

    Yes we would have, we were longingly looking across the sea to England gobsmacked at their seemingly speed of light downloads on amazing 10Mb lines :p

    I don't think the next generation of consoles will be download only but I do think there will be an emphasis on downloading and I also think you'll start to see games tied to accounts with the next generation.

    Also, with regards to speed 3Mb/s is fairly okay for downloading games on Steam so long as I leave it over night (it works out as approximately 1GB/hour) but it is a pain when there's no pre-load and you're stuck waiting to play your shiney new game.

    To the hoarders who think they could never live without their boxes, believe me when I say you can and you will. You'll also catch yourself wondering why you ever needed the bloody things in the first place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭hightower1


    I read on another site that the base model will be cards only but a more expensive version of the console will have an optical drive. Seems a bit silly tbh you doubling you manufacturing costs doing it this way.

    Im all for cards though as we still have a physical media to trade in BUT no matter how cheap flash cards have become their still no where near as cheap as the CD or blu rays. The read , access and write speeds are far faster than blu ray and cd but the cost is cripling thats why Nintendo moved away from them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    calex71 wrote: »
    Up to 50% of xboxs are not online, people have slow broadband and low data caps and so on. If they went the digital only route then they would lose half of their install base.
    .

    ok that number needs to be looked at

    50% of sold xboxes are not connected to xbox live, that's the number, and it's there for all to see. however, how many of those 50% of xboxes are dead? based on this report from kotaku http://kotaku.com/5339555/report-xbox-360-failure-rate-over-50-percent you're looking at a FIFTY PERCENT failure rate of the console in august 2009. now obviously that's not an exact figure for the full sales numbers, BUT there's a good chance that the vast majority of those 50% of xbox consoles in the wild that aren't on xbox live are dead boxes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,126 ✭✭✭✭calex71


    Helix wrote: »
    ok that number needs to be looked at

    50% of sold xboxes are not connected to xbox live, that's the number, and it's there for all to see. however, how many of those 50% of xboxes are dead? based on this report from kotaku http://kotaku.com/5339555/report-xbox-360-failure-rate-over-50-percent you're looking at a FIFTY PERCENT failure rate of the console in august 2009. now obviously that's not an exact figure for the full sales numbers, BUT there's a good chance that the vast majority of those 50% of xbox consoles in the wild that aren't on xbox live are dead boxes

    Thats a fair point actually


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Having no optical drive just gives the competition an immediate advantage with dvd/blu ray. It's ridiculous to cut off the selling point, if only that.

    Yeah few PS3 games use more than 30GB, but don't forget this is next-gen we're talking about. Proprietary flash memory, & it would be proprietary for security reasons, would be just too expensive for the sized needed.

    They should have an optical drive, & even if they made it so that games had to be installed to the internal hdd, at least the console could compete with other 'media center of your living room' consoles


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    hightower1 wrote: »
    I read on another site that the base model will be cards only but a more expensive version of the console will have an optical drive. Seems a bit silly tbh you doubling you manufacturing costs doing it this way.

    Im all for cards though as we still have a physical media to trade in BUT no matter how cheap flash cards have become their still no where near as cheap as the CD or blu rays. The read , access and write speeds are far faster than blu ray and cd but the cost is cripling thats why Nintendo moved away from them.

    Nintendo moved away from cartridges with the Gamecube in 2001. That's 11 years ago and will be 12 years by the time we get a glimpse of the next gen consoles. In the past 12 years the technology has changed completely. The N64 only had something like a maximum capacity of 16MB, compared to 700mb of a CD. And back then the cost of producing a 16mb chip was a lot dearer than a 16GB chip today. Sony have even ditched optical storage of the PSP for cartridges with the Vita.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    No. 1 reason why this is nothing but bad news for gamers if it is true:

    No competition, therefore MS can charge whatever they like. Just look at the price of Halo Reach on XBLA and how much it goes for brand new on online stores.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    I think Microsoft are just throwing out these rumours/ideas to see how we react to them, whether or not they can implement them. Let's push people to their limit, and then take it back a step...and since it's a rumour they get the response without actually doing it.

    I'd be really shocked taking away the option of games via physical discs. I know America has better online service but I imagine being forced to download >8GB of data through your internet every time you want a game is asking alot. Digital-Distribution-Only isn't there yet; i'd think that it's another console iteration away. It solves used game sales but I imagine it ruins eg Christmas sales since it's not a tangible, physical object. Or maybe gamers don't care for physical gifts & unwrapping them, I dunno.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    hightower1 wrote: »
    Seems a bit silly tbh you doubling you manufacturing costs doing it this way.

    I think you are completely misunderstanding the economics of this process. Doubling?? :pac: lol no.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Yeah few PS3 games use more than 30GB, but don't forget this is next-gen we're talking about. Proprietary flash memory, & it would be proprietary for security reasons, would be just too expensive for the sized needed.

    PS Vita and Nintendo DS/3DS already use proprietary storage formats, and you can pick up new games for as little as €10 for older titles, proving they're not too expensive. And while the interface and format may be proprietary, the microchips that go into them are no different than ones that go into SD cards and SSD's, which fall drastically in price year on year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    No. 1 reason why this is nothing but bad news for gamers if it is true:

    No competition, therefore MS can charge whatever they like. Just look at the price of Halo Reach on XBLA and how much it goes for brand new on online stores.

    there is competition though; sony and nintendo

    if ms charge ridiculous prices nobody will opt for them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    jaykhunter wrote: »
    It solves used game sales but I imagine it ruins eg Christmas sales since it's not a tangible, physical object

    it does increase game life longevity though


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭hightower1


    Andy!! wrote: »
    I think you are completely misunderstanding the economics of this process. Doubling?? :pac: lol no.

    How exactly? The rumor states x2 different consoles that means x2 different cases (as one will have optical drive the other will not) x2 different board sets etc, so yeah....you would be doubling your manufacturing costs as you now need to produce two very different variants of the console.
    sink wrote: »
    Nintendo moved away from cartridges with the Gamecube in 2001. That's 11 years ago and will be 12 years by the time we get a glimpse of the next gen consoles. In the past 12 years the technology has changed completely. The N64 only had something like a maximum capacity of 16MB, compared to 700mb of a CD. And back then the cost of producing a 16mb chip was a lot dearer than a 16GB chip today. Sony have even ditched optical storage of the PSP for cartridges with the Vita.

    The tech has come down in price but is no where near as cost effective as a CD / blu ray to produce. Sony ditched optical storage for the vita as the device was already pushing size limits as is, battery consumption was an issue so solid state was preferred and with the competing devices against the vita are using cloud storage (ipad) and carts (3ds) it made more sense to use those media formats than UMD.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    hightower1 wrote: »
    The tech has come down in price but is no where near as cost effective as a CD / blu ray to produce.
    If you are only looking at the manufacturing costs that may be the case. They are more likely looking at the 'bigger picture' though in that though they'll lose x amount due to the more expensive manufacturing cost per unit, they'll gain y amount through reducing piracy and (if tied to your account) lowering second hand sales. If by their calculations y>x, then they'll go for the proprietary format.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Helix wrote: »
    there is competition though; sony and nintendo

    if ms charge ridiculous prices nobody will opt for them

    No, there really isn't, if you buy an MS console you will be stuck with it, most people won't have more than one console. Just look at how bad the prices are for ancient games still on all 3 systems, Nintendo don't even have sales. There'll only be competition if the systems are linked, and there's no chance of that happening. If you are buying on MS's system and tied to an MS console, you've got yourself a monolpoly.

    Just compare the consoles to the PC and physical copies markets were there is actual competition.


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