Sagem IDT81-SD picnic box

maxg · 04-10-2009 3:36pm #1

Currys currently selling the sagem picnic box for 19.99 GBP. The box was originally design for sky picnic via uk freeview but the service was never launched.
The box is able to handle mpeg4 SD. Did someone test this box?
There are first reports about irish DTT is working with that receiver.

marclt · 04-10-2009 3:47pm

maxg wrote: »

The box is able to handle mpeg4 SD. Did someone test this box?
There are first reports about irish DTT is working with that receiver.

Apparently so. It can't do true HD as it only has scart outputs. I've ordered one, but they don't appear to be able to purchase in store any more, just online.

Probably because there were only a limited number ever produced.

M

mrdtv · 05-10-2009 6:17pm

This is indeed confirmed at Caernarvon in North Wales, NB its an MPEG4 SD box only. The forthcoming BT Vision T2 box will do it as well as MPEG4 DVB-T1 TVs and future T2 boxes. The aerial used was apparently a 12 element high gain wideband Yagi receiving both Three Rock and Kippure satisfactorily. See the ds technical thread on terrestrial Freeview.
This means West Wales will have reciprocal reception to that in SE Ireland.

Finne1993 · 05-10-2009 7:39pm

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1129716&page=3

Post number 63. It works, think i'll give Currys in Newry a call in the morning and check it out!!

mrdtv · 05-10-2009 8:24pm

Finne1993 wrote: »

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1129716&page=3

Post number 63. It works, think i'll give Currys in Newry a call in the morning and check it out!!

More here:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1135424

Finne1993 · 06-10-2009 1:11am

Done an online search there now, Currys in Newry and Craigavon have them in stock in store. I'm going to try to get down at some stage tomorrow and buy one to test it out, if not it will be Wed morning, I'll post up my results as soon as I get it up and running.

Good find maxg and thanks for the info mrdtv

SRB · 06-10-2009 12:10pm

That's an interesting report on DS. Haven't had a whisper of the DTT from Kippure in ages (Portaferry), though Three Rock is still coming and going, depending on the conditions.

lawhec · 06-10-2009 1:25pm

Got this STB delivered this morning. Can confirm that it can receive & display the RTÉNL multiplex MPEG4 Video very well. Specifications in the manual state that it can do MPEG2 & MPEG4 AVC video albeit only for SD. Audio Can be MPEG2 Layer I or II, with AC3, MPEG4 AAC Levels 2 & 4 for multi channel (5.1) audio.

If I can I'll try and get a video demonstrating its output later. One interesting thing I found was that if you press the text button for RTÉ1 & 2, the MHEG text will appear while pressing text for TG4 will bring up their standard WST (analogue) teletext pages.

slegs · 06-10-2009 2:01pm

lawhec wrote: »

Got this STB delivered this morning. Can confirm that it can receive & display the RTÉNL multiplex MPEG4 Video very well. Specifications in the manual state that it can do MPEG2 & MPEG4 AVC video albeit only for SD. Audio Can be MPEG2 Layer I or II, with AC3, MPEG4 AAC Levels 2 & 4 for multi channel (5.1) audio.

If I can I'll try and get a video demonstrating its output later. One interesting thing I found was that if you press the text button for RTÉ1 & 2, the MHEG text will appear while pressing text for TG4 will bring up their standard WST (analogue) teletext pages.

Thats because there is no MHEG5 text in test for TG4 - if you can get it on RTE1 and RTE2 it works fine. Makes this box a steal as its fully compliant with Irish spec (for SD)

lawhec · 06-10-2009 2:30pm

slegs wrote: »

Thats because there is no MHEG5 text in test for TG4 - if you can get it on RTE1 and RTE2 it works fine. Makes this box a steal as its fully compliant with Irish spec (for SD)

Thought as much, but the thing that surprises me is that most STB's in the UK won't decode WST teletext either on the STB itself or through recombination with the picture on an analogue output - not that any is broadcast in the UK which would make it fairly pointless.

Finne1993 · 06-10-2009 5:15pm

Got 2 of the Sagem Picnic STBs there now, got the same results as Lawhec.

RTE1 & RTE2 coming in fine and with MHEG5 teletext.
TV3 on test bars
TG4 coming in fine but with regular teletext.

Three Rock Mux CH54:
800 - TG4
801 - TV3
802 - RTE2
803 - RTE1

Kippure Mux CH61:
800 - RTE1
801 - RTE2
802 - TV3
803 - TG4

Regardless of the muddled up numbers (I'd assume this a RTENL test problem) this is an absolute steal for £19.99stg. For anyone who is able to receive both Freeview and RTE DTT its an even bigger steal!
I wonder how many of these Sagem manufactured, I done a quick search there now and found no answers. They're obviously priced to sell off quickly so I might take another run down and buy a few more.

slegs · 06-10-2009 6:09pm

Finne1993 wrote: »

Got 2 of the Sagem Picnic STBs there now, got the same results as Lawhec.

RTE1 & RTE2 coming in fine and with MHEG5 teletext.
TV3 on test bars
TG4 coming in fine but with regular teletext.

Three Rock Mux CH54:
800 - TG4
801 - TV3
802 - RTE2
803 - RTE1

Kippure Mux CH61:
800 - RTE1
801 - RTE2
802 - TV3
803 - TG4

Regardless of the muddled up numbers (I'd assume this a RTENL test problem) this is an absolute steal for £19.99stg. For anyone who is able to receive both Freeview and RTE DTT its an even bigger steal!
I wonder how many of these Sagem manufactured, I done a quick search there now and found no answers. They're obviously priced to sell off quickly so I might take another run down and buy a few more.

800-803 is perfectly normal. RTENL set these numbers.

Yes a steal at 19.99. Closest boxes to this price are at least 60 eur more and these have no MHEG5.

Finne1993 · 06-10-2009 7:26pm

slegs wrote: »

800-803 is perfectly normal. RTENL set these numbers.

Yes a steal at 19.99. Closest boxes to this price are at least 60 eur more and these have no MHEG5.

Sorry, did'nt make myself clear, I know its normal having the station numbers in the 800's. I should've said the stations are going backwards on the Three Rock Mux eg: RTE1 is 803 where as its 800 from Kippure. Regardless as you said, a steal, wonder how long they'll be on sale for!!

mrdtv · 07-10-2009 8:15am

Finne1993 wrote: »

Sorry, did'nt make myself clear, I know its normal having the station numbers in the 800's. I should've said the stations are going backwards on the Three Rock Mux eg: RTE1 is 803 where as its 800 from Kippure. Regardless as you said, a steal, wonder how long they'll be on sale for!!

It is believed 100-200k of these units were manufactured for Sky Picnic and are now being sold off as Picnic has been delayed by Ofcom. After the UK election should Mr M's friend win Ofcom is to be axed in its present format and, as a present for supporting him, I would not be surprised if Picnic was given the goahead. This is a nice little Trojan Horse for Irish DTT as Mr M could flood the market with these cheapo boxes (they're OK I have used them...) as they have NDS Videoguard as the embedded CA. A cute move?

Sponge Bob · 07-10-2009 8:30am

....and if Irish DTT boxes have Videoguard as standard (completely accidentally) I can see a commercial dtt play in future.

pa990 · 07-10-2009 12:50pm

CURRYS.CO.UK need a postcode

when trying to register

How can i get my hands on one?

marclt · 07-10-2009 2:02pm

pa990 wrote: »

CURRYS.CO.UK need a postcode when trying to register

How can i get my hands on one?

Hi pa

Dixons or Currys only deliver to the UK... I had one delivered to a UK address yesterday.

The box is pretty big tho, so if you find someone

in the UK to get one for ya, the postage from the UK to Ireland could be a bit.

M

mrdtv · 07-10-2009 4:10pm

marclt wrote: »

Hi pa

Dixons or Currys only deliver to the UK... I had one delivered to a UK address yesterday.

The box is pretty big tho, so if you find someone in the UK to get one for ya, the postage from the UK to Ireland could be a bit.

M

So, have you tried it out in West Wales yet? I ordered one today as there was too much traffic to pick up by hand...

marclt · 07-10-2009 4:57pm

mrdtv wrote: »

So, have you tried it out in West Wales yet? I ordered one today as there was too much traffic to pick up by hand...

Hi mrdtv

I think only coastal areas around Fishguard towards St. Davids will pick up Ch. 45 as these areas are shielded by the terrain. Not sure what the reception reports will be like now the juice has been turned up at Preseli however.

I'm high up but in line of sight of the Preseli mast, so there is no shielding. Can't get anything at present on UHF from Kippure, but will try again.

VHF Kippure is fine and a great deal better than Mt. Leinster.

mrdtv · 07-10-2009 5:08pm

marclt wrote: »

Hi mrdtv

I think only coastal areas around Fishguard towards St. Davids will pick up Ch. 45 as these areas are shielded by the terrain. Not sure what the reception reports will be like now the juice has been turned up at Preseli however.

I'm high up but in line of sight of the Preseli mast, so there is no shielding. Can't get anything at present on UHF from Kippure, but will try again.

VHF Kippure is fine and a great deal better than Mt. Leinster.

Yes, a perfect case of no shielding for you! The reports of reception were indeed from the Fishguard area. Kippure is too far away for UHF. Next year there will be T2 boxes from Pace, Humax et al so they'll be handy in mid-north Wales but a lot pricier than this Sagem bin end.

Sponge Bob · 07-10-2009 9:02pm

UK DVB-T2 boxes will have MHEG5 ( of course

and will have MPEG4 and therefore they should pick up and decode up RoI spillover ...signal and operating software permitting of course .

In fact the official launch of Irish DVB-T will now certainly occur

1. AFTER the Official UK launch on the 1st December and
2. AFTER the branded Freeview HD equipment goes on the market in the Wales and Lancashire regions .

and

3. Freeview HD will work with Irish DTT where Freeview never will

Boxes

Pace ...h1 2010

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-hd-box/

Humax early 2010

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/humax-freeview-hd-receiver-outed-634923

However these have slipped from the expected "end of this year" predicted only in July

mrdtv · 08-10-2009 8:53am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

UK DVB-T2 boxes will have MHEG5 ( of course and will have MPEG4 and therefore they should pick up and decode up RoI spillover ...signal and operating software permitting of course .

In fact the official launch of Irish DVB-T will now certainly occur

1. AFTER the Official UK launch on the 1st December and
2. AFTER the branded Freeview HD equipment goes on the market in the Wales and Lancashire regions .

and

3. Freeview HD will work with Irish DTT where Freeview never will

Boxes

Pace ...h1 2010

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-hd-box/

Humax early 2010

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/humax-freeview-hd-receiver-outed-634923

However these have slipped from the expected "end of this year" predicted only in July

Good timing points raised by you. They will pick up Irish DTT as its backwards compatible with MPEG4 T1, and in some other markets where T2 is to be introduced MPEG4 is already in use. For now good Freeview MPEG4 box choices are BTVision (also coming out in T2 next year) and the Sagem Picnic box available from Currys in the UK.

Sponge Bob · 08-10-2009 10:22am

The BT Vision box will not work ( I think) unless ADSL is provisioned too . It has a hybrid EPG that relies on DSL from what I remember , Netgem DTT boxes are similar in that respect . As fewer than 70% of Irish homes have a phone line that would constrain your market further . Therefore I disregarded BT Vision for Irish purposes.

My only worry is that those Freeview HD boxes that do launch are programmed to assume that mpeg4 can only come in over the -T2 feed and not the -T feed as well , ie T MUST=mpeg2 and T2 MUST=mpeg4.

That is why a Welsh person living high in Snowdonia is a vital cog in the future of Irish DTT as they could pick up the signal from Grenada as well as Kippure and check for us

Ireland would be a not insignificant market . The initial UK DVB-T2 rollout will cover c.2m homes for Freeview HD this year and c.6m for the world cup next year ( England are through) and rising to around 14m by the Olympics in 2012 ( 50% of households before ASO).

Ireland would add another 1.2m households to the addressable pool and by 2010 , this may help UK adoption/pricing in 2010 in particular . Later Irish rollouts will only cover another 400k households , the bulk will be addressable ab initio.

The FreeSAT HD market has shipped 600k ( no link that is from memory) units in the 2 years since launch .

Where , o where, is that ideal Welsh Person ??

mrdtv · 08-10-2009 11:28am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The BT Vision box will not work ( I think) unless ADSL is provisioned too . It has a hybrid EPG that relies on DSL from what I remember , Netgem DTT boxes are similar in that respect . As fewer than 70% of Irish homes have a phone line that would constrain your market further . Therefore I disregarded BT Vision for Irish purposes.

My only worry is that those Freeview HD boxes that do launch are programmed to assume that mpeg4 can only come in over the -T2 feed and not the -T feed as well , ie T MUST=mpeg2 and T2 MUST=mpeg4.

That is why a Welsh person living high in Snowdonia is a vital cog in the future of Irish DTT as they could pick up the signal from Grenada as well as Kippure and check for us

Ireland would be a not insignificant market . The initial UK DVB-T2 rollout will cover c.2m homes for Freeview HD this year and c.6m for the world cup next year ( England are through) and rising to around 14m by the Olympics in 2012 ( 50% of households before ASO).

Ireland would add another 1.2m households to the addressable pool and by 2010 , this may help UK adoption/pricing in 2010 in particular . Later Irish rollouts will only cover another 400k households , the bulk will be addressable ab initio.

The FreeSAT HD market has shipped 600k ( no link that is from memory) units in the 2 years since launch .

Where , o where, is that ideal Welsh Person ??

IIRC the BT Vision box does require a sub and, of course, its not available in ROI. The Welsh DSO transmitters (Preseli, Llandona, Blaen-Plwyf and their relays including Arfon) will be switched over to Freeview HD next year: an announcement is imminent from Freeview. Winter Hill starts HD transmissions on December 2nd and is available in North Wales and parts of East and South Down so you won't have long to wait: I suspect these will be all format boxes as the basic h/w & s/w configuration will be aimed at several EU markets. I endorse your point on economies of scale.

mrdtv · 09-10-2009 5:49pm

I received one today from DHL ex Currys @ £19.99 and no delivery charge and had an opportunity to test it in the UK on Freeview services. ROI in due course.

Its clear Sky had completely thought this through:

a) the box appears to do Band III as well as UHF in the COFDM section, with full Band I - V loopthrough!

b) MPEG4 and MPEG2 SD

c) NDS Videoguard as per the instructions

d) Very nice signal information: strength, quality and CRITICALLY BER and S/N ratio. (These were spot on here as I have measured them separately). The box does not understand the Ch 31 DVB-T2 tests here, as expected. Who needs a signal strength meter when you have this information?

e) Good signal strength sensitivity and tuning steps of 166.66KHz (ie no offset tuning problems. Clever Sky!)

f) Very fast EPG population and channel change.

For £19.99 for an SD MPEG/MPEG2 box with NDS embedded this sets the bar very high for competitors. The logical next step for Sagem would be a DVB-T2 HD box. This SD box would wipe the floor with its competitors *IF* Irish DTT were to launch as MPEG4 T1, but the clock is ticking. For those with Freeview AND Irish DTT trials its a must have!!

byrnefm · 09-10-2009 10:47pm

I wonder what are the chances that when (if!) Irish DTT launches, that an HD channel would be launched soon after that? If it's unlikely to be anytime soon, the Sagem box is definitely a good way to go as a cheap upgrade to DTT, including those (like myself) who are near Northern Ireland and so are unlikely to get Freeview HD for several years to come...

Mark#1 · 10-10-2009 7:17pm

Good point about no HD for a while from Irish DTT - that does make this an interesting product for those who want to just receive DTT now. Even if some HD content does come out soon, I assume you'd still be able to watch that channel/program, albeit in SD?

Aside from SCART being a basic video connection, another issue with the SCART connection is that if that's the only connectivity it has, that hampers running the audio through a separate AV system.

Is there anything out there now (aside from PS3/PlayTV) that functions as a DTT tuner and PVR?

Mark

mrdtv · 11-10-2009 9:56am

Mark#1 wrote: »

Good point about no HD for a while from Irish DTT - that does make this an interesting product for those who want to just receive DTT now. Even if some HD content does come out soon, I assume you'd still be able to watch that channel/program, albeit in SD?

Aside from SCART being a basic video connection, another issue with the SCART connection is that if that's the only connectivity it has, that hampers running the audio through a separate AV system.

Is there anything out there now (aside from PS3/PlayTV) that functions as a DTT tuner and PVR?

Mark

It has digital and analogue audio out connectors, and supports Dolby AC3 and DTS. Not bad for £19.99!

Mark#1 · 11-10-2009 12:09pm

You mean optical and coaxial audio? If yes, then it really is a fine option for the money.

Do Curry's in Newry have them?

Mark

mrdtv · 11-10-2009 4:04pm

Mark#1 wrote: »

You mean optical and coaxial audio? If yes, then it really is a fine option for the money.

Do Curry's in Newry have them?

Mark

S/PDIF Electical for digital and L/R analogue phonos. Curry's website lets you check store availability.

byrnefm · 11-10-2009 9:13pm

mrdtv wrote: »

S/PDIF Electical for digital and L/R analogue phonos. Curry's website lets you check store availability.

I had a peek on their website but I didn't see a 'Reserve & Collect' icon next to the box this evening - I wonder if Curry's is running out of these boxes?

Sagem IDT81-SD picnic box

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