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The Irish suicide question

  • 01-11-2012 3:54am
    #1
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭


    Is there a suicide epidemic currently in Ireland?

    Every missing person thread of late results in suicide, with the odd case being perhaps a tragic drowning or something similar.

    The next village to my own home village of maybe 600-800 people has seen 6 males between 18 and 25 kill themselves so far in 2012. That's 6 funerals I've been to which were absolutely tragic. These weren't copycat's.

    Why are people so quick to seek such an ultimate solution to their problems?

    What can we do, as a society, to help those suffering from issues and to help bring down the extremely high suicide rate?

    Maybe it is still a taboo subject in Ireland, I suppose it is at the end of the day, nobody likes to talk about someone killing themselves, its not a particularly pleasant conversation to have.

    Life can be amazingly wonderful. I went for a cycle there Saturday evening back home where the blue sky and the horizon blended into a wonderful mash of differing shades of blue. Life can be so beautiful and fulfilling. Its such an awful pity that some can never see this and take the tragic end to their issues.


    If anyone reading this is contemplating suicide, there is always a way out. Get in touch with Samaritans, talk to someone you can trust, get it off your chest. Whatever you think is beautiful then go there and take a walk around and think about the good things.

    Myself I love to go to the nearest body of water and enjoy the tranquility it brings. Particularly on sunny days. God I love crisp sunny winter days when I can do this!

    There is always help, be it professional or personal, there is always someone there. Just believe in them, and more importantly believe in yourself and that one day you will become better and that things will get better in the future.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Very true, I just wish people would talk to someone before going through with it.


  • #3
    retalivity
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,506 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Ares wrote: »
    Life can be amazingly wonderful. I went for a cycle there Saturday evening back home where the blue sky and the horizon blended into a wonderful mash of differing shades of blue. Life can be so beautiful and fulfilling. Its such an awful pity that some can never see this and take the tragic end to their issues.

    Taking one side without discussing the other doesn't help. Life can be overwhelmingly bleak too. Pontificating to people to try and see the good in the world without alleviating the problem can be a lot worse


  • #4
    3rdDegree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭3rdDegree


    There really is always a solution. It is so tragic that people can be in such a dark place that they can see no other way out.


  • #5
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    retalivity wrote: »
    Taking one side without discussing the other doesn't help. Life can be overwhelmingly bleak too. Pontificating to people to try and see the good in the world without alleviating the problem can be a lot worse

    Granted but there isn't much reason in telling people that life can be incredibly shít and not worth living.

    I don't mean to pontificate, I was trying to show to brighter side that life can offer.

    How can one alleviate the problem that life can be overwhelmingly bleak?


  • #6
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Ares wrote: »
    What can we do, as a society, to help those suffering from issues and to help bring down the extremely high suicide rate?
    Start by treating mental health issues as an illness, and not as a weakness.
    Ares wrote: »
    How can one alleviate the problem that life can be overwhelmingly bleak?
    You can't. Life has ups and down. It's an inherent part of the human condition that has to be acknowledged.


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  • #7
    Promac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Start by treating mental health issues as an illness, and not as a weakness.

    You can't. Life has ups and down. It's an inherent part of the human condition that has to be acknowledged.

    A bleak outlook is a reflection of how an individual is dealing with his or her problems. Helping them to deal with feelings of depression (not just feeling a bit sad and beaten by misfortune) will vastly alter the chances of them doing something serious.


  • #8
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Start by treating mental health issues as an illness, and not as a weakness.


    I dont think someone contemplating suicide gives a sh1t how people percieve the issue regarding illness v weakness.

    The term "mental illness" itself is too general a term. It covers a vast amount of problems, everything from learning difficulties to schizophrenia to memory loss. Its a vague, umberella term to cover anything associated with the brain / emotion / psychological makeup of our minds, and indeed the link between all three. Its like saying someone has a "physical illness" whether they have the flu, or a broken leg.

    When it comes to suicide, 99% of cases are specifically to do with depression. You dont really hear of people with alzheimers or autism committing suicide. Sometimes people commit suicide for other reasons, eg. because of other underlying issues, such as psychosis, or because of a sudden emotional upheavel like a break-up or bereavement or bullying / abuse, but the epidemic in Ireland cannot simply be blamed on one-off things like that. There's too many similarities in unconnected cases.

    The truth is that science just doesn't know enough yet to be able to explain it. We know as much about the circuitry of the brain as the ancient Greeks did about the physiology of the body. Thats about the level of understanding that we're at.

    But there are definate patterns and commonalities. Its usually young men, and occasionally young women, who take their own lives through depression. Could it be somehow age or location related? Ireland has a fairly small gene pool, even moreso in rural areas. Could there be a genetic link? Also, the medicines we use to treat these people, do they need to be looked at? IMO spirituality / religion is a factor. In times gone by, we had a huge number priests and nuns. With the recent fall-off in the popularity of religion in this country, that just isn't the case anymore. Who joins the priesthood / convent, why young men and women of course! Was that filling in a gap for people with depression?

    Jackofalltrades, you did touch on something there about people treating mental illnesses as a "weakness" though. For a person who has never experienced depression, seeing someone with depression can be confusing. There are people out there who are lazy and undiciplined, and just need a kick in the arse, as opposed to being actually clinicially depressed. For those of us who have never had depression, it can be very hard to discern between the two.

    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    You can't. Life has ups and down. It's an inherent part of the human condition that has to be acknowledged.

    Bingo. Acknowledging that is a piece of cake for non-depressed people. But that seems to be the exact weapon thats missing from the arsenal of those with depression.


  • #9
    Promac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Promac


    Ireland is a feckin horrible country to be depressed in. People who don't normally get depressed will get depressed in Ireland. Living in Ireland I was ready for the noose.


  • #10
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    What I can't understand is how much money is spent campaigning for road safety in Ireland but suicide takes more lives and the same financial backing isn't there. We also need to look at the causes of depression and as an earlier post said it is to general when we use the term mental illness. If we look at root causes of problems we'll have a better understanding. We have so many issues in society now that i could be here for the day. Young peole perceiving no prospects for the future, low self esteem, turning to drink for comfort etc etc. We still are slow to discuss the suicide problem and well done to original poster.


  • #11
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,312 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I can remember years ago, when I was a kid, my parents saying that suicide was on the rise because a few kids near us had killed themselves (not together).

    But suicide wasn't on the rise. Not nationally anyway. Just the distribution had resulted in a small cluster. And that always happens because when one suicide is published, there's a higher likelyhood that there will be another one.

    Nowadays we have tinternet. And it provides a massive way to spam the fcuk oput of people with missing persons requests. You recieve one and send to all your friends. I get messages about people missing in the UK. I have no idea why I'd be any help at all there. Since so many people are aware, it becomes more newsworthy. And we have a 24 hour news cycle in our pockets with mobile internet. So it gets more coverage again.

    My point being that I very much doubt that there's been a massive rise in suicide. There's just been a few high profile ones. The same goes for suicide due to bullying. Pre-internet/Mobile it happened. It's not like bullying has increases because of the internet. Just the methods have changed. However now there's a record of the taunts and insults. Before it happened, but there's no record of the verbal insults.

    On the plus side, the internet gives groups like the samaritans and childline extra tools and does make people more aware of depression. So I guess it's worth the spam. Well, almost.


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  • #12
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Promac wrote: »
    Ireland is a feckin horrible country to be depressed in. People who don't normally get depressed will get depressed in Ireland. Living in Ireland I was ready for the noose.


    Why? Explain why. I see you're living in NZ now, so it cant be the weather or scenery! What was it, the drinking culture, the urbanisation of Ireland, what was it? Break it down for us. BTW what age are you, m/f?


  • #13
    TheTwiz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭TheTwiz


    crusher000 wrote: »
    What I can't understand is how much money is spent campaigning for road safety in Ireland but suicide takes more lives and the same financial backing isn't there. We also need to look at the causes of depression and as an earlier post said it is to general when we use the term mental illness. If we look at root causes of problems we'll have a better understanding. We have so many issues in society now that i could be here for the day. Young peole perceiving no prospects for the future, low self esteem, turning to drink for comfort etc etc. We still are slow to discuss the suicide problem and well done to original poster.

    This is a serious problem in our country. What makes it worse is the vast majority who take their life are incredibly young. As the poster above alludes to, it's the lack of prospects for the future that are getting thousands upon thousands into a dark depression. It's all well & good for someone on an Internet forum say "we're here for you, we love you" Quite frankly this is pish. I myself can relate to this at the moment. I'm in a poor paying job with no real progress. Terrible wages. All my friends are earning quite good money. They're moving out with their partners. They can afford nice cars. I can't do any of that. I don't really have the qualifications to work in a field that I really want to work in. I don't have the finances to do things that interest me. There really isn't any positive outlook. As a result confidence & self esteem is at an all time low. To perhaps progress in the job obviously requires confidence and high energy. This is gone so work quality decreases. Have I considered ending it? Of course I have. About 5 days of the week i wish i could just go away. Will I? I highly doubt that. I wouldn't want to cause that anount of grief to my family.

    I've looked into why young people are commiting suicide. Very few actually experience grief such as ill parents or a close death. It is all about what the future will be bring & for a lot it is nothing but bleak. Something drastic needs to be done in this country soon & fast.


  • #14
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    TheTwiz wrote: »
    Something drastic needs to be done in this country soon & fast.

    What do you suggest?

    Suicide is not just happening in Ireland, there is lots of help for people now its no longer a taboo subject.
    If someone wants to end their life they will find a way, sometimes the stress for families constantly watching out for someone is not easy either.

    I don't know how society can stop people taking their own lives, should we have the right to choose what we want to do ?


  • #15
    TheTwiz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭TheTwiz


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    What do you suggest?

    Suicide is not just happening in Ireland, there is lots of help for people now its no longer a taboo subject.
    If someone wants to end their life they will find a way, sometimes the stress for families constantly watching out for someone is not easy either.

    I don't know how society can stop people taking their own lives, should we have the right to choose what we want to do ?

    I'm not qualified in mental health so I couldn't possibly give an answer. You seem to suggest that people with depression are a lost cause.


  • #16
    Andy!!
    Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    Problem is this mental health service that you think can fix everything is grosselly underfunded, with its practices that are stuck well in the 80's or even 70's, and with some 'psychiatrists' that I can tell you from personal experience suffer from a number of disorders themselves.

    There is no real help for people suffering in Ireland. No, a cup of tea will not fix you. Nor a pamphlet about how much your mammy loves you. People are checking out early because of the state this country is in and they just do not see a way out. For many there actually isnt a way out. The corruption, hypocracy, red tape and BS that infests Ireland like a cancer is why these people are dying but people are too apathetic to march on the government and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.


  • #17
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    TheTwiz wrote: »
    This is a serious problem in our country. What makes it worse is the vast majority who take their life are incredibly young. As the poster above alludes to, it's the lack of prospects for the future that are getting thousands upon thousands into a dark depression. It's all well & good for someone on an Internet forum say "we're here for you, we love you" Quite frankly this is pish. I myself can relate to this at the moment. I'm in a poor paying job with no real progress. Terrible wages. All my friends are earning quite good money. They're moving out with their partners. They can afford nice cars. I can't do any of that. I don't really have the qualifications to work in a field that I really want to work in. I don't have the finances to do things that interest me. There really isn't any positive outlook. As a result confidence & self esteem is at an all time low. To perhaps progress in the job obviously requires confidence and high energy. This is gone so work quality decreases. Have I considered ending it? Of course I have. About 5 days of the week i wish i could just go away. Will I? I highly doubt that. I wouldn't want to cause that anount of grief to my family.

    I've looked into why young people are commiting suicide. Very few actually experience grief such as ill parents or a close death. It is all about what the future will be bring & for a lot it is nothing but bleak. Something drastic needs to be done in this country soon & fast.

    you seem to think that somebody else has the answer.....

    "life" is not bleak, it is your outlook that is bleak.......

    now...get out of the doldrums and start planning.......


  • #18
    TheTwiz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭TheTwiz


    golden lane wrote: »
    you seem to think that somebody else has the answer.....

    "life" is not bleak, it is your outlook that is bleak.......

    now...get out of the doldrums and start planning.......

    Plan what?


  • #19
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    TheTwiz wrote: »
    I'm not qualified in mental health so I couldn't possibly give an answer. You seem to suggest that people with depression are a lost cause.

    Where did I suggest that?

    Suicide is a personal choice and do we have the right to stop someone doing it? We can help, we can talk but have we the right to expect someone to go with what we want rather than what they want?


  • #20
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    TheTwiz wrote: »
    Plan what?

    whatever you need to cheer you up.....


  • #21
    TheTwiz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭TheTwiz


    golden lane wrote: »
    whatever you need to cheer you up.....

    I want a mansion, a nice car, a great job & a supermodel wife.

    Your suggestion is idiotic. Gob****e


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  • #22
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    TheTwiz wrote: »
    I want a mansion, a nice car, a great job & a supermodel wife.

    Your suggestion is idiotic. Gob****e

    your choice......i just want a polo mint....


  • #23
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Start by sorting out the unemployment disaster for that age group


  • #24
    Andy!!
    Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    golden lane wrote: »

    whatever you need to cheer you up.....

    WOW WHY DIDNT WE THINK OF THAT!! A NICE HOBNOB AND A CUP OF TEA PERHAPS???

    Unbelievable.


  • #25
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    Andy!! wrote: »
    Problem is this mental health service that you think can fix everything is grosselly underfunded, with its practices that are stuck well in the 80's or even 70's, and with some 'psychiatrists' that I can tell you from personal experience suffer from a number of disorders themselves.

    There is no real help for people suffering in Ireland. No, a cup of tea will not fix you. Nor a pamphlet about how much your mammy loves you. People are checking out early because of the state this country is in and they just do not see a way out. For many there actually isnt a way out. The corruption, hypocracy, red tape and BS that infests Ireland like a cancer is why these people are dying but people are too apathetic to march on the government and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    You are blaming the country and the government, really ? hardly the reason so many young people are taking their own lives.

    There is help here for people, how does it compare to other countries?
    It's easy to point the blame at everyone but the person who makes the choice.


  • #26
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Andy!! wrote: »
    WOW WHY DIDNT WE THINK OF THAT!! A NICE HOBNOB AND A CUP OF TEA PERHAPS???

    Unbelievable.

    well, that would be a start........maybe a jaffa cake as well.


  • #27
    TheTwiz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭TheTwiz


    ^^^ That's if I can afford one


  • #28
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    golden lane wrote: »
    well, that would be a start........maybe a jaffa cake as well.

    is there any point to your posts? Having suffered with depression and having beaten it, i know how hard it is non sufferers to relate to it. I even find it hard to remember how it felt myself sometimes. Trying to explain it to someone who hasn't suffered it is difficult, its like trying to descibe colours to someone who has been blind their whole life. Idiotic comments like yours makes the task even harder.


  • #29
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Golden Lane, stop posting in this thread.


  • #30
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Well in a round about way isnt golden lane suggesting taking one day at a time, or one moment at a time and working from there ?.....


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  • #31
    Andy!!
    Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

    You are blaming the country and the government, really ? hardly the reason so many young people are taking their own lives.

    There is help here for people, how does it compare to other countries?
    It's easy to point the blame at everyone but the person who makes the choice.

    You havent got a clue what youre talking about. Honestly. You can stop posting in this thread n all.


  • #32
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    When a 13 year old feels the need to kill herself then you know the government/school/social services do not work.

    kids get to spend 4-5 hours a week on religion in schools, when they could be dealing with much more important issues.

    I also wish there was a way of terminally ill people being able to switch bodies with those about to kill themselves.

    The media and social sites play a huge role too. I would like to see what % of suicides have been as a result of this.


  • #33
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    Maybe it's my perception but are some posters here actually
    trivialising suicide and depression. I'll get the whole freedom of speech thing and entitled to our opinions but I really can't understand the coldness of some people. Too much time in front of the screen i think. Some people do want to debate the issue of suicide seriuosly and I wish others would stay of this forum.


  • #34
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I would urge anyone who is contemplating it to call one of the helplines, the Samaritans, anyone and just talk about how they're feeling.

    I know someone who volunteers for the Samaritans and they said that every year there's a huge spike in young people who feel suicidal because of their exam results, and how their parents will react. I'm sure the parents don't mean to put that kind of pressure on their children, but that's how the kids feel about it.


  • #35
    Andy!!
    Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    kylith wrote: »
    Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

    Such one-liner BS. I hate that line. Not only is it untrue, but it is very patronising.


  • #36
    lukesmom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    Trust me when I say it's not as easy as doing something to make yourself happy! Just came out of a depressive spell last week and it was horrendous. Not looking forward to the next one. Oh yeah the doctors in Ireland are completely unskilled in the area of mental health. When I first got depression it was 4 years ago. I didn't know what was happening to me but I was unravelling. I visited the doctors surgery 11 times in 3 weeks to see different doctors at the same practice, hoping one of them could magically cure me of this darkness engulfing me. I had in my possession 150 different tablets including ssri's (long term anti depressents), 4 different type of benzodiazepines including Valium and Xanax and 2 different types of sleeping tablets including rohypnol the date rape drug (which by the way was the only tablet to knock me put asleep after 9 days awake straight). I finally settled on an ssri and still on it.
    My point is that the doctors throw medication at you, no counselling suggested or offered I was just asked 'your not going to do anything stupid are you???
    Thank God I didn't. But I certainly wanted to and I often want to when I get my depression spells. Something stops me though so I'm lucky so far.
    I've 3 wonderful children, great husband and family etc. You would look at me and think no chance could I suffer depression but I do. This country is a joke when it comes to mental health it's time our doctors were better trained in this area, their hands are tied so it's time for a complete overhaul.
    P.s a permanent solution to a permanent problem is how a depressive feels when they are stuck in that black hole


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  • #37
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I tried to take my own life a few years ago now.

    I look back at that time and I really can't see how I was ever in a place where I thought that was the best option but at the time I was a mess. When you are that low you don't really see things straight. I had been nagged for ages by my loved ones to get help but I had convinced myself I would have my kids taken off me, I don't know where I got that idea from but I felt if I told anyone how I felt I would be called an unfit mother and they would be put into care. I saw all those professionals who are there to help as the enemy.

    What worked for me was therapy but I had to go overseas to get it, even then I had to wait. It was the longest three months of my life. I was lucky enough to meet someone who had been through it who had come out the other side and I held onto that. It was a long road and I'm still having bad days but I think, I hope, I will be okay.

    Its important to know that depressed people aren't always crying, unable to get out of bed etc etc. I still got up, went to work, met my friends, had a laugh but it was all fake. No one could see how crap I felt or how much of an effort it took to do even small things most people take for granted. Someone can look okay but be dying inside.

    I don't really know what the point of this post is, I have no answers. I suppose its just to show you can be rock bottom and come back and be happy again.


  • #38
    Babooshka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Babooshka


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    Where did I suggest that?

    Suicide is a personal choice and do we have the right to stop someone doing it? We can help, we can talk but have we the right to expect someone to go with what we want rather than what they want?

    You talk as though the person making the decision is in their rational decision making mind. They are in serious distress and in need of professional help. "Personal Choice" is a term used for deciding what car to buy, what to eat for lunch or what colour jeans to wear, not whether to check out or not. You could probably use the term personal choice for Euthanasia assisted suicide.

    When someone decides to end their life they believe there simply is no other choice, it's not "kill myself, or go to a movie"...it's a lot more complicated, and an extremely dark and horrible place to be in. I don't think they want their life to end, they want the pain they're in to end.


  • #39
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    People who are suicidal are ILL!!!! Pointing the finger is like blaming a disabled person for not making an effort to walk.


  • #40
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    ASIST - Applied Suicide Intervention Skills Training

    The course trains people to recognise signs in people who are at immediate risk of suicide, and how to intervene.
    Most people thinking about suicide signal and share their pain - they offer us opportunities to respond.

    Suicide intervention training can help all of us see, hear and respond to these invitations.

    It is important to know what signs to look for if someone is in danger. A lot of it is common sense really


  • #41
    Drakares
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭Drakares


    I'm only 22 and I know 4 people who have committed suicide.

    One of them last week, was a lecturer of mine in Applied Statistics.

    What an absolute gent he was, and a genius.

    Hindsight is a terrible thing. I knew he was under pressure with his work and he seemed a bit stressed. But if it had even occurred to me what he was considering I'd have asked the lad out for a pint. Maybe or maybe it wouldn't have made a difference.

    I just urge anyone to please please talk to someone if you are in a dark place. Devores post is an excellent one with some great tips, and you can find it here.


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  • #42
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    I think there's so many factors in the reasons behind suicide that pointing the finger needs both hands to get all the targets. The future of youth does look bleak. Many feel emotionally isolated. I know myself that men having feelings other than football is great and look at that ladies tits is often seen as ridiculous. The worst part of it is you feel trapped.

    I would always have people try to guilt me out of depression. People get angry that you feel like ending everything. Imagine how everyone else would feel, etc etc. Personally, I really think it's terrible for everyone else to expect someone to live a life they hate just so they don't get upset. I don't look down on people who want to die, or who do make that step. I wish things were better for them, but I get it.

    Telling someone to just perk up is also really, REALLY stupid. If someone gets hit by a car and their arm is lying several feet away, you don't tell them to just walk it off. They need actual, proper help. Platitudes about how great the sky is are useless.

    I dunno if this is even appropriate, but if anyone is feeling depressed to that point, send me a PM. Maybe we can hook up for coffee and talk some time. It can help, sometimes, to just see someone have an interest in your mind.


  • #43
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    I have no answers whatsoever in this area, but it is a question that has been bothering me very deeply of late...

    I know 3 very young people (14-16) who have committed suicide in the last few months, and since I moved to this very rural area about 2 decades ago I know scores of people in a 20-30 mile radius who have taken their own lives. Neighbours, parents of my children's friends, the farmer who herded his cows past my door, children in the local school.....It is a horrific nightmare that stalks this land.

    And it does seem to be increasing. I know people say that statistically we are better at reporting so that accounts for the increase, but Jesus, I never heard of so many when i was younger.

    The strange thing about depression is that many people, myself included, actually struggle desperately and valiantly through the dark night, determined to survive and to come out the other side. A lot of depressives do not consider suicide as an option, in fact have a deep desire to embrace this beautiful life, and will endure the most abject torment in order to live another day.

    In some of the cases of recent suicide i know of, there seems to have been an element of ''sudden impulse'', a drastic urge, a moment of utter abandon, rather than a long period of sustained depression. Therefore I would posit the idea that suicide has somehow become more of a psychologically acceptable option, an idea that when it arises no longer leads to an immediate rejection as being taboo....as if somehow we have become inoculated to the very idea of suicide and therefore it does not repel us, or rather the person who moves towards it, much as seeing violence and abuse in movies inoculates us to a sensation of empathy for those who suffer.......

    Like I say, I don't know. I wish I did.


  • #44
    seven_eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭seven_eleven


    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc9kc6FlCQ1r2m5c0o1_1280.jpg

    sums up the "suicide is selfish" argument nicely imo. Depressioncomix on tumblr is the name if you want to see more. They're pretty good and put a lot of things in a different perspective.


  • #45
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    Andy!! wrote: »
    You havent got a clue what youre talking about. Honestly. You can stop posting in this thread n all.

    That's patronising but don't worry I will not be posting in this thread again but you could consider the possibility that I might know what I'm talking about.
    Andy!! wrote: »
    Such one-liner BS. I hate that line. Not only is it untrue, but it is very patronising.


    Read this again it's someone else's opinion you might not agree with.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=permanent%20solution%20to%20a%20temporary%20problem&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suicide.org%2Fpermanent-solution-to-a-temporary-problem.html&ei=bGSSUOC1LZS6hAfn-4GICA&usg=AFQjCNG8X6srCmMRU9JuFWqSxpuuouAirQ


  • #46
    danslevent
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭danslevent


    My Dad suffers from depression and I am glad some people on here have shared their stories because I honestly don't know how to feel/think about it. I feel like I have been really selfish...it has been going on for weeks now and at first I'd listen when I came home at the weekends from college but I have gotten annoyed with his usual rant and him never asking me anything about my life. I know, selfish of me since he is ill.

    I'm going to try understand it more but is it bad sometimes I just don't want to hear about it? It really is so upsetting and he refuses councelling etc, I just don't know what to say anymore. He has made off hand comments about taking too many sleeping tablets but thankfully he seems a lot better now.

    I wish I could feel what it feels like to be properly, properly depressed for just one day so I could relate and understand more. Is there anything a person can really do to get someone out of a depression? I feel so redundant sometimes even though I know someone elses happiness isn't my complete responsibility.


  • #47
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    danslevent wrote: »
    My Dad suffers from depression and I am glad some people on here have shared their stories because I honestly don't know how to feel/think about it. I feel like I have been really selfish...it has been going on for weeks now and at first I'd listen when I came home at the weekends from college but I have gotten annoyed with his usual rant and him never asking me anything about my life. I know, selfish of me since he is ill.

    I'm going to try understand it more but is it bad sometimes I just don't want to hear about it? It really is so upsetting and he refuses councelling etc, I just don't know what to say anymore. He has made off hand comments about taking too many sleeping tablets but thankfully he seems a lot better now.

    I wish I could feel what it feels like to be properly, properly depressed for just one day so I could relate and understand more. Is there anything a person can really do to get someone out of a depression? I feel so redundant sometimes even though I know someone elses happiness isn't my complete responsibility.

    I wouldn't say you're selfish, it's a natural reaction. People are selfish in general. Ask your Dad why he doesn't want counselling. If it's the usual case of thinking it's not needed, you gotta make him see it is, or if it's embarrassment then tell him it's OK to go see someone. If you have broken bones you go see a Doctor. If it's your mind that's broken it's not much different, you need someone who has an understanding of it to help you. The best thing YOU can do is just be there, man, and help him out realistically.


  • #48
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Andy!! wrote: »
    and with some 'psychiatrists' that I can tell you from personal experience suffer from a number of disorders themselves.

    What makes you think this? There's an old saying that people that cannot help themselves cannot help others. If one is struggling with coping with their own mental illness, they cannot take on the burdens of others as they will burn out very quickly, that goes for any profession where you are working with vulnerable people.


  • #49
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Promac wrote: »
    Ireland is a feckin horrible country to be depressed in. People who don't normally get depressed will get depressed in Ireland. Living in Ireland I was ready for the noose.

    Errr... NZ has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, and that's official.


  • #50
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    I'm 23 and I know of at least 15 people that I knew who took their own lives, some of whom were very close friends.

    The problem (that I see) is the lack of treatment available for people with mental health illnesses who are at risk of doing this. When I was younger, I had some issues and was severely depressed, with anxiety and Post Traumatic Stress on top of that. I waited 3 months to see a psychiatrist, even though I was such high risk that my pharmacist would only give me a week's supply of anti-depressants at a time, on order of my GP. After waiting 3 months to see a psychiatrist, I then waited 6 months for counselling. It also took two years to get an official diagnosis, as they were convinced I was bi-polar, despite me showing NO symptoms of it.

    Eventually, I couldn't handle it and my parents paid for me to be treated privately. I had an appointment within 2 weeks, counselling 4 weeks later, a diagnosis after a month and was finished treatment within a year.

    I'm now totally happy, healthy and have no need for counselling or medication, but what about people who aren't in the position of having their parents pay for private healthcare?

    If you think someone with such severe depression that they want to die can hold out for 3 months for an appointment, that's a huge mistake. If you're suicidal, you need help NOW. Thankfully I was never suicidal, but I can completely understand why some people end their lives, when the 'help' available is really bad (from what I personally have experienced).

    Also, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem? Not really. Some people will have mentall illness for life, some people will suffer with trauma for life.

    Nobody who chooses suicide as a viable option is in a rational frame of mind when choosing to take such a route. Depression completely eradicates all sense of reasoning and rationality.


  • #51
    cazzak79
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭cazzak79


    I wish though the people that do commit suicide could see the effect on the people left behind the hurt and devastation
    More should be done to stop it


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