New Children's Hospital at Mater site

Milk & Honey · 04-03-2012 11:53pm

BrianD wrote: »

Is this the site that would be closer to the Tara Towers Hotel?

Anyway, accepting a "not-build-as-a-childrens-hospital-but-will-do-the-job" is not the way forward.

This hospital needs to be purpose built from scratch.

The site is between the Tara Towers and Vincents. Just because it wasn't built as a Childrens Hospital at the outset does not mean it cannot be adapted successfully. It as a modern building and part of it was built as a hospital.

dowlingm · 05-03-2012 5:53am

Nope. This is a once in a century job. The motorways weren't built with second hand bridges and what not, the nation's kids deserve a purpose built facility with 21st century standards of infrastructure.

A greenfield site on the outskirts somewhere near at least one mass transport line might come in cheaper even if you add an acute facility than shoehorning one into an site.

The disappointing thing is to see things said in places like "well if you attach the facility to such and such a hospital it will fall under one university or the other" - which university gets dibs on the NCH should not be a deciding factor surely?

Tragedy · 05-03-2012 2:41pm

MYOB wrote: »

Finn Breathnach is the most biased person going as goes wanting it at Crumlin and nowhere else

Maurice Neligan was not a paediatrician

Brendan Drumm is on the board of the new NCH and I have never seen him speaking out against it before or after his appointment to same.

Any more you want to suggest?

Brendan Drumm was a major player in the lobby group trying to get a new hospital built in Crumlin. Maybe you should do your research better.

Maurice Neligan was a consultant in Crumlin Hospital for 28 years. Maybe you should do your research better.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmheyojojey/rss2/ Maybe you should do your research better.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfcwgbgbqley/rss2/ Maybe you should do your research better.

I see a recurring theme here, and it's you posting unsubstantiated facts and lies.

All I see are groups of parents of children formerly or currently treated at each hospital wanting (quite obviously) to protect "their" hospital. There's never any rationality except wanting to keep "their" hospital. Emotions do not make good decisions.

I'm not aware of any of the groups wanting to keep Temple Street. Or Tallaght. Very few support a new crumlin hospital. The vast majority seem to want a new national children's hospital rather than the status quo (or crumlin/temple street/tallaght being built up). So more bull**** from you.

Anyone who makes such biased statements as Breathachs need to be disregarded. Again, emotional attachment and protectionism causes brutal decision making.

Which you're far more guilty of than him :rolleyes:

The majority of those consultants do not practice there - they are available to the hospital but due to it not being co-located, they are not present on site, have offices there, etc.

The majority of those consultants do practice there and are present on site, have offices, have weekly clinics and operations there. Care to prove differently?

A fair few even have private rooms there too.

Care to retract the "full of ****" attack now?

No, because you clearly are still full of ****.

ABP often report that something is in an unsuitable location when refusing permission.

Which doesn't negate the fact that ABP wasn't reviewing the suitability of the location of a NCH, they were reviewing the suitability of THIS NCH to THIS location.

My position is based on my own opinion, his is based on his. Why would his have any impact on mine?

Because he has far more information than you.

Try getting there from anywhere *other* than the N7 interchange, even with flashing blues on.

I have, as I've tried driving to work on almost every route to Crumlin including ballymount, crumlin village, south circular road, st peters road, captains road, crumlin road and sperrin road (among others). I get by ok without flashing blues, traffic is crap at peak but it's still far better than any access route in town.

I also like how you've backtracked from "equally gridlocked" to "equally gridlocked BUT PLEASE IGNORE THE MAIN AND MOST USED ROUTE TO THE HOSPITAL AS IT SHOWS MY POINT TO BE MORONIC".
Good job!

The talking heads that RTE, et al, dragged out yesterday are all vested interests - I never said everyone who disagrees with it is. However, nearly everyone in the medical profession who disagrees with it is closely linked to a failed bidder.

You claimed that 95% of the medical profession agrees with you and the Mater Site. You claimed the other 5% and disagreed because they had vested interests and something to lose. You have yet to provide any kind of evidence for any sort of a consensus among medical professionals about the Mater site, while I've provided lots of evidence that there does not seem to be any kind of consensus among medical professionals.

You just provided all the evidence yourself - a list full of consultants from adult hospitals.

You clearly (and yet again) don't have a clue how it works. Regardless of children's hospitals and adult hospitals, among Irish Hospitals must consultants sit in multiple hospitals. A Cardiac Consultant might sit for 2 days a week in Crumlin and 1 day a week in the Mater. A opthalmic surgeon sits one day a week in the Adelaide and one day a week at the Hermitage. Etc etc. Its incredibly common and in no way means that a "consultant is called in when needed". To claim it is shows just how little you know on the subject. Which really, really is a recurring theme with your posts here.

And how does high rise inherently impact on quality of life? It doesn't.

How does a high rise hospital in a gridlocked shabby inner city area affect quality of life? I don't think I even need to respond to this as it's so patently ridiculous.

Evenings and nights - precisely the kind of time traffic is so locked they need escorts....

I see, you read the bit in brackets but ignored the main text? Most of my work was either 8 until 4, or 9 until 6. I also worked occasional shift work on 4 until 12 and midnight until 8. More bull****.

Try 8-10am, 3-6pm. Try standing out in Crumlin Village for a day and watch the ambulance traffic coming in. It'd be a rare day that there wasn't either a Garda escort or an ambulance held up for a prolonged period.

Considering I also walked to either the Ashleaf(through Crumlin village) or Crumlin SC a lot of days for lunch, I can also again state that this is more bull****. There's also no traffic in Crumlin village before 8:30am or past 9am or between 3pm and 4:45pm so again, more bull****.

The Mater will have a maternity hospital should the entire plan go through; and it is a teaching hospital. Care to do a bit of research please?

I said doesn't have. I know reading posts isn't your strong point, but if you try again you might realise I was stating that it doesn't have a Maternity Hospital NOW. Also, and you seem not to be aware of this, but Crumlin Hospital is a teaching hospital already.

Crumlin, Crumlin, Crumlin. Shows where your viewpoint comes from on this.

How? I don't want the status quo, I don't want Crumlin to be enlarged, I simply don't believe the NCH at the Mater is the correct choice. I like that you're yet again trying to class dissent as being "vested interests" despite almost everything you say not being factual and you refusing to provide any evidence for your many fanciful claims.

There's three hospitals being replaced - Temple Street, the NCH in Tallaght and your former employer. Are you going to attack this solely from that perspective? Because if so, I'll have to file you under Breathnach.

I've explained why I believe the Mater isn't the correct site. Please see above and try to respond to dissent like an adult rather than being childish and classifying it as "vested interests" so you can conveniently not let it affect your opinion.

There is more than sufficient green space being provided in the new hospital as well as more than sufficient to be looked out upon.

Hah.

You've done nothing but attempt to fight Crumlin's corner

I've not once fought Crumlin's corner, I don't believe Crumlin is fit for purpose and I don't believe it should be enlarged or rebuilt.

badly

At least I have first hand knowledge of what I post, you just make things up.

insult me

Where exactly?

baselessly

Where exactly?

and make massive errors of fact.

Where exactly?

Still waiting for you to back up even one of your claims, you have yet to do so.

Are you going to continue to do this?

I haven't done any of that, whereas I've shown you several times to be posting lies/nonsense.

Tragedy · 05-03-2012 2:51pm

bk wrote: »

Not true, Google Transit is now available in Ireland, this is where they gather live traffic data via GPS enabled android phones.

Over time they are gathering and storing this data, using it to build up very accurate journey time estimates.

Then why is it telling me Knocklyon to Georges Street is 15minutes while even at 3am with zero traffic it takes a few minutes more than that?

Might it be because as the previous poster said, it uses an algorithm based on distance, speed limits junctions etc rather than being based on actual experience?

You said "Not true" when it is patently true that this is the case. In the near or distant future this might change, but for now you are incorrect to state that it is "not true".

L1011 · 05-03-2012 7:33pm

I don't even see why I should try to reply to a post which tries to deal with issues by baselessly screaming "lies" and "full of ****".

I haven't lied. None of my repsonses are "full of ****".

dubhthach · 05-03-2012 11:24pm

Tragedy wrote: »

Brendan Drumm was a major player in the lobby group trying to get a new hospital built in Crumlin. Maybe you should do your research better.

Maurice Neligan was a consultant in Crumlin Hospital for 28 years. Maybe you should do your research better.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmheyojojey/rss2/ Maybe you should do your research better.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfcwgbgbqley/rss2/ Maybe you should do your research better.

I see a recurring theme here, and it's you posting unsubstantiated facts and lies.

I'm not aware of any of the groups wanting to keep Temple Street. Or Tallaght. Very few support a new crumlin hospital. The vast majority seem to want a new national children's hospital rather than the status quo (or crumlin/temple street/tallaght being built up). So more bull**** from you.

Which you're far more guilty of than him :rolleyes:

The majority of those consultants do practice there and are present on site, have offices, have weekly clinics and operations there. Care to prove differently?

A fair few even have private rooms there too.

No, because you clearly are still full of ****.

Which doesn't negate the fact that ABP wasn't reviewing the suitability of the location of a NCH, they were reviewing the suitability of THIS NCH to THIS location.

Because he has far more information than you.

I have, as I've tried driving to work on almost every route to Crumlin including ballymount, crumlin village, south circular road, st peters road, captains road, crumlin road and sperrin road (among others). I get by ok without flashing blues, traffic is crap at peak but it's still far better than any access route in town.

I also like how you've backtracked from "equally gridlocked" to "equally gridlocked BUT PLEASE IGNORE THE MAIN AND MOST USED ROUTE TO THE HOSPITAL AS IT SHOWS MY POINT TO BE MORONIC".
Good job!

You claimed that 95% of the medical profession agrees with you and the Mater Site. You claimed the other 5% and disagreed because they had vested interests and something to lose. You have yet to provide any kind of evidence for any sort of a consensus among medical professionals about the Mater site, while I've provided lots of evidence that there does not seem to be any kind of consensus among medical professionals.

You clearly (and yet again) don't have a clue how it works. Regardless of children's hospitals and adult hospitals, among Irish Hospitals must consultants sit in multiple hospitals. A Cardiac Consultant might sit for 2 days a week in Crumlin and 1 day a week in the Mater. A opthalmic surgeon sits one day a week in the Adelaide and one day a week at the Hermitage. Etc etc. Its incredibly common and in no way means that a "consultant is called in when needed". To claim it is shows just how little you know on the subject. Which really, really is a recurring theme with your posts here.

How does a high rise hospital in a gridlocked shabby inner city area affect quality of life? I don't think I even need to respond to this as it's so patently ridiculous.

I see, you read the bit in brackets but ignored the main text? Most of my work was either 8 until 4, or 9 until 6. I also worked occasional shift work on 4 until 12 and midnight until 8. More bull****.

Considering I also walked to either the Ashleaf(through Crumlin village) or Crumlin SC a lot of days for lunch, I can also again state that this is more bull****. There's also no traffic in Crumlin village before 8:30am or past 9am or between 3pm and 4:45pm so again, more bull****.

I said doesn't have. I know reading posts isn't your strong point, but if you try again you might realise I was stating that it doesn't have a Maternity Hospital NOW. Also, and you seem not to be aware of this, but Crumlin Hospital is a teaching hospital already.

How? I don't want the status quo, I don't want Crumlin to be enlarged, I simply don't believe the NCH at the Mater is the correct choice. I like that you're yet again trying to class dissent as being "vested interests" despite almost everything you say not being factual and you refusing to provide any evidence for your many fanciful claims.

I've explained why I believe the Mater isn't the correct site. Please see above and try to respond to dissent like an adult rather than being childish and classifying it as "vested interests" so you can conveniently not let it affect your opinion.

Hah.

I've not once fought Crumlin's corner, I don't believe Crumlin is fit for purpose and I don't believe it should be enlarged or rebuilt.

At least I have first hand knowledge of what I post, you just make things up.

Where exactly?

Where exactly?

Where exactly?

Still waiting for you to back up even one of your claims, you have yet to do so.

I haven't done any of that, whereas I've shown you several times to be posting lies/nonsense.

Mod

Telling another user that they are full of ***** is a blatant insult. Infracted and banned for seven days. Keep it up when ye come back and I'll permaban

Pete_Cavan · 09-04-2012 12:35pm

All the papers run with the story the National Childrens Hospital at Mater site back on track;

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-childrens-hospital-mater-bid-back-on-after-nuns-offer-3074598.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0409/1224314551232.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0409/mater.html

Great to see the Mater site is back in play, hopefully the additional area available now in the existing hospital with allow them to reduce the scale of the new hospital down to an acceptable size.

6034073

If the site gets the nod from the review group, it will help the case for Metro North. This comes after news that the onstruction of the eighty metre long underground diaphragm wall as part of the station box on the grounds of the Mater campus is due to be finished ahead of schedule;

http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Metro%20North/Mater%20D-Wall/RPA_D-Wall%20Update_10_130312af.pdf

Tragedy · 09-04-2012 8:02pm

How much extra space is this providing for the NCH? Is it enough to realistically allay ABPs problems with the design?

NuMarvel · 28-05-2012 12:31pm

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The site is between the Tara Towers and Vincents. Just because it wasn't built as a Childrens Hospital at the outset does not mean it cannot be adapted successfully. It as a modern building and part of it was built as a hospital.

There was an article in this weekend's Irish Times, saying that the National Maternity Hospital are looking at moving to this development.

National Maternity Hospital close to securing new site
MARTIN WALL, Industry Correspondent

NEGOTIATIONS ARE at an advanced stage about transferring the National Maternity Hospital at Holles Street in Dublin to the Elm Park development near St Vincent’s hospital on the Merrion Road.

The Elm Park mixed office and residential development was built by developer Bernard MacNamara but is currently controlled by receivers appointed by National Asset Management Agency (Nama).

Nama’s approval would be required for any transaction involving the property. It is understood that talks on relocating the 118-year-old National Maternity Hospital to modified buildings at the Elm Park development are under way between the hospital, the Department of Health, the Department of Finance and the Nama

A Nama spokesman confirmed yesterday that it was “engaged with the Department of Health in respect of this matter”.

A spokesman for Minister for Health James Reilly said last night: “Serious negotiations with Nama are ongoing in relation to a possible relocation for Holles Street maternity hospital.”

The spokesman declined to comment on the location of the site at the centre of the discussions but said it was a Nama property.

The spokesman for the Minister said the negotiations had not been finalised.

The Elm Park development had been mooted as a possible location for the proposed new national children’s hospital.

However it is understood that the negotiations about moving the National Maternity Hospital on to the Elm Park site is not part of an overall plan in relation to the new children’s hospital.

It is likely that any relocation of the National Maternity Hospital to the Elm Park development would involve it sharing some services with the nearby St Vincent’s Hospital.

The National Maternity Hospital is understood to be experiencing serious capacity issues at its current location.

On her appointment earlier this year as the new master of the National Maternity hospital, Dr Rhona Mahony said the hospital was busier than at any time in its history.

She said almost 10,000 babies had been delivered there last year and productivity was up by 30 per cent compared to 2007.

“So it is a huge challenge just even managing the numbers,” she said.

Dr Mahony also acknowledged that infrastructure at the hospital was “a big problem”.

“This is a very, very old building, it is not custom-built for 2012,” she said.

And in other news, St James' Hospital published their proposals for building the Paediatric Hospital and a maternity hospital on their campus - http://www.stjames.ie/AboutUs/NewsEvents/Fulltext,38935,en.html.

There was a report a few years back that recommended moving the Rotunda, the Coombe and Holles street to the Mater, St James's and St Vincent's respectively, so it's good to see some movement on that, as well as the children's hospital.

L1011 · 28-05-2012 3:49pm

James' proposal is about the height the re-drawn Mater one will be, in a low rise area; and in an area with even more questional transport (barring the Luas, its further from commuter rail, bus services, and has absolutely locked suburban roads serving it).

Expect to see some people support it solely for being southside, however.

hardCopy · 06-11-2012 7:17pm

Apologies if there is a newer thread on this, I did search.

The James' site has now been chosen and the deadline pushed back to 2018.

Whatever about the choice of site, delaying this by an additional 2 years is sickening.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1106/decision-on-new-childrens-hospital-due.html#article

Cool Mo D · 06-11-2012 7:37pm

MYOB wrote: »

James' proposal is about the height the re-drawn Mater one will be, in a low rise area; and in an area with even more questional transport (barring the Luas, its further from commuter rail, bus services, and has absolutely locked suburban roads serving it).

Expect to see some people support it solely for being southside, however.

James Hospital is just off the Chapelizod bypass, which is the start of dual carriageway to the M50, and the motorway to Galway, it is walking distance from Heuston, on the Luas, and has 3 frequent cross-city bus routes nearby (13, 40 123). It's in an ideal place, transport wise.

Ernest · 06-11-2012 8:01pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

James Hospital is just off the Chapelizod bypass, which is the start of dual carriageway to the M50, and the motorway to Galway, it is walking distance from Heuston, on the Luas, and has 3 frequent cross-city bus routes nearby (13, 40 123). It's in an ideal place, transport wise.

Exactly! And it would also link in to a future DART underground and even Metro West if ever built. The Mater site was always a daft idea.

Milk & Honey · 06-11-2012 9:31pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

James Hospital is just off the Chapelizod bypass, which is the start of dual carriageway to the M50, and the motorway to Galway, it is walking distance from Heuston, on the Luas, and has 3 frequent cross-city bus routes nearby (13, 40 123). It's in an ideal place, transport wise.

The new hospital is going to be built on Coombe/South Circular Road area. It is a considerable walk from Heuston station, particularly if accompanied by children.

John_Rambo · 06-11-2012 9:45pm

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The new hospital is going to be built on Coombe/South Circular Road area. It is a considerable walk from Heuston station, particularly if accompanied by children.

St. James's hospital is a short walk from Hueston station.

L1011 · 06-11-2012 10:22pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

James Hospital is just off the Chapelizod bypass, which is the start of dual carriageway to the M50, and the motorway to Galway, it is walking distance from Heuston, on the Luas, and has 3 frequent cross-city bus routes nearby (13, 40 123). It's in an ideal place, transport wise.

You have a very funny definition of "just off" and "walking distance"

The main positives to this are that its:

1: Not Crumlin
2: Not Connolly
3: Not Belcamp

Cool Mo D · 06-11-2012 11:01pm

MYOB wrote: »

You have a very funny definition of "just off" and "walking distance"

The main positives to this are that its:

1: Not Crumlin
2: Not Connolly
3: Not Belcamp

James's Hospital is almost exactly 500m from the front door of Heuston. That's under a 10 minute walk.

FreudianSlippers · 06-11-2012 11:03pm

Medically the Mater is still the best location, but since that wasn't going to happen this is the best of a bad bunch. Not sure why they're calling it James's though; it's really the Coombe (they were talking about the old Player factory as a possibility).

NuMarvel · 06-11-2012 11:09pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Medically the Mater is still the best location, but since that wasn't going to happen this is the best of a bad bunch. Not sure why they're calling it James's though; it's really the Coombe (they were talking about the old Player factory as a possibility).

I thought it was on the St James' Campus? That's what the Dept of Health material says anyway.

Milk & Honey · 06-11-2012 11:16pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

St. James's hospital is a short walk from Hueston station.

The front entrance maybe, but the new hospital is going to be built a long way around by the back. Even going by the shortest route, it means going up steps at Cromwellsfort. Great fun with a child in tow.

L1011 · 06-11-2012 11:17pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

James's Hospital is almost exactly 500m from the front door of Heuston. That's under a 10 minute walk.

The NCH site at James's is not exactly 500m away though. Its quite significantly more.

FreudianSlippers · 06-11-2012 11:25pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

I thought it was on the St James' Campus? That's what the Dept of Health material says anyway.

My fault. I misheard the quote, from the Irish Times it says: "Dr Reilly said ultimately a future government may consider building a maternity hospital on the campus. He said the Health Service Executive could consider a site off South Circular Road which could be linked to the children’s hospital site. The 20.5 acre site comprises the disused Player Wills factory, the Bailey Wilson scrap-metal salvage site and the derelict Boys’ Brigade playing fields, which are in the ownership of Dublin City Council."

Still the ultimate plan is to merge the James's site with the Coombe site.

L1011 · 06-11-2012 11:29pm

How could they "link" that landbank to James? Seeing as they're *behind* the Coombe.

Milk & Honey · 06-11-2012 11:36pm

MYOB wrote: »

How could they "link" that landbank to James? Seeing as they're *behind* the Coombe.

A 600 metre tunnel would link the Coombe and St. James. That is what the medics want.

InchicoreDude · 06-11-2012 11:38pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Medically the Mater is still the best location, but since that wasn't going to happen this is the best of a bad bunch. Not sure why they're calling it James's though; it's really the Coombe (they were talking about the old Player factory as a possibility).

Why do you consider the Mater to be the best medical option?

Tragedy · 07-11-2012 10:03am

Oh dear. St James apparently has worse (public and private) transport links than the Mater site according to a user up thread.

Apparently being between 1(front entrance) and 3(rialto stop, assuming they'll put in an entrance to NCH here) luas stops from Heuston station is worse than having no luas connection to the Mater site.

Apparently being between 7 and 10 stops from Busaras and Connolly Station is worse than having no luas connection to the Mater site.

Apparently having more buses going by St James is worse than having less buses going by the Mater site ( http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/Sources-of-Real-Time-Information/?searchtype=view&searchquery=1995 http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/Sources-of-Real-Time-Information/?searchtype=view&searchquery=795 )

Apparently being just off a major dual carriageway stretching all the way to the m50 is worse than being in the midst of north inner city Dublin with no particularly easy way to access it.

Apparently a 1km (10minute) walk isn't walking distance.

Apparently being 1km from a train station is worse than being 1.6km from a train station.

I must say, my eyes have certainly been opened. I now know less is more, farther is closer, better transport links are worse and that I should not try to ever walk a kilometre!

FreudianSlippers · 07-11-2012 2:34pm

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Why do you consider the Mater to be the best medical option?

Tri-location is far more important than transport links. The Mater has a brand new adult hospital, specialist maternity care and facility to teach. I haven't heard of nor do I know a single doctor that has advocated a site other than the Mater. James's is a close second, but still does not fulfil the necessities of a proper children's hospital. Nor will it for 50 years IMO

lucernarian · 07-11-2012 3:24pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Tri-location is far more important than transport links. The Mater has a brand new adult hospital, specialist maternity care and facility to teach. I haven't heard of nor do I know a single doctor that has advocated a site other than the Mater. James's is a close second, but still does not fulfil the necessities of a proper children's hospital. Nor will it for 50 years IMO

The facilities for teaching/research in St. James are quite extensive, though the two other points are crucial also and it will require extra work to allow the Coombe hospital to closely interact with St. James, never mind tri-location.

And you do know of at least one doctor advocating St. James, the man himself Dr. James Reilly:P

antoobrien · 07-11-2012 3:27pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

I thought it was on the St James' Campus? That's what the Dept of Health material says anyway.

From the map on page 62 of the submission it looks like it's all on the site of St James's.

InchicoreDude · 07-11-2012 4:47pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Tri-location is far more important than transport links. The Mater has a brand new adult hospital, specialist maternity care and facility to teach. I haven't heard of nor do I know a single doctor that has advocated a site other than the Mater. James's is a close second, but still does not fulfil the necessities of a proper children's hospital. Nor will it for 50 years IMO

I'm not an expert on this issue, far from it. But doesnt Trinity College have a significant presence in James's? I thought that would be a education resource so not sure how the Mater is better than James's in that regard???

I will read through the correspondence and hospital submissions which are on the DOHC website to get a better insight though.

L1011 · 07-11-2012 7:10pm

Milk & Honey wrote: »

A 600 metre tunnel would link the Coombe and St. James. That is what the medics want.

Not likely to see that happen. Also wouldn't want to be the person pushing a trolley 600m either.

I notice the bleat of "children need green space to look at" that was bandied around by many anti-Mater campaigners hasn't turned up again despite this being a smaller site, in a similarly urban area. Funny that.

FreudianSlippers · 07-11-2012 8:04pm

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

The facilities for teaching/research in St. James are quite extensive, though the two other points are crucial also and it will require extra work to allow the Coombe hospital to closely interact with St. James, never mind tri-location.

And you do know of at least one doctor advocating St. James, the man himself Dr. James Reilly:P

Nothing against GPs but...

Like I said, I have no problem with James's but the reasons for rejecting the Mater were stupid. Of the non-Mater sites James's is the best but must include integration with the Coombe - underground tunnel or something (:D)

hardCopy · 07-11-2012 8:14pm

MYOB wrote: »

Not likely to see that happen. Also wouldn't want to be the person pushing a trolley 600m either.

I notice the bleat of "children need green space to look at" that was bandied around by many anti-Mater campaigners hasn't turned up again despite this being a smaller site, in a similarly urban area. Funny that.

I haven't seen anything official about using the old Player's Will's site at the back of the Coombe. The James' proposal was to have the Children's Hospital built within the existing James' campus. As per the link in antoobrien's post.

Even if a tunnel was to be built between the NCH and the Coombe, it would still be shorter than any tunnel between the Mater and the Rotunda.

Land has been identified in that proposal within James' campus for the eventual relocation of the maternity hospital.

I'm not anti-Mater in any way I'm just not sure where the idea of the tunnel is coming from.

L1011 · 07-11-2012 8:28pm

hardCopy wrote: »

Even if a tunnel was to be built between the NCH and the Coombe, it would still be shorter than any tunnel between the Mater and the Rotunda.

The Rotunda was going to (and may still well do, depending on what happens) move to the Mater site - not remain it its existing buildings.

If a maternity hospital is built on the existing James's campus we're going to have one that's even more crowded than the Mater one was ever going to be.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-11-2012 11:14pm

MYOB wrote: »

If a maternity hospital is built on the existing James's campus we're going to have one that's even more crowded than the Mater one was ever going to be.

Just as well that's not what's planned then, isn't it?

L1011 · 07-11-2012 11:23pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Just as well that's not what's planned then, isn't it?

That's actually what is suggested in the report. The 500 metres down the road suggestion is just an option.

Milk & Honey · 07-11-2012 11:50pm

MYOB wrote: »

Not likely to see that happen. Also wouldn't want to be the person pushing a trolley 600m either.

The medics want it for safety reasons. They dont want newborns in ambulances. they can put a travelator in it so there wont be a 600m trolley push. If done intelligently there could be an underground link between various buildings which would facilitate safe transfer between the buildings.

Hotblack Desiato · 08-11-2012 12:12am

Suggested - well according to the Irish Times today they'd switched from the original proposal (NCH adjacent to Coombe, new maternity hospital within James's) to the opposite. With an established maternity hospital nearby and lots of land available adjacent to both, there is lots of future flexibility. The biggest mistake of going with the Mater would have been building on a cramped site with no room to expand.

hardCopy · 08-11-2012 1:33am

ninja900 wrote: »

Suggested - well according to the Irish Times today they'd switched from the original proposal (NCH adjacent to Coombe, new maternity hospital within James's) to the opposite. With an established maternity hospital nearby and lots of land available adjacent to both, there is lots of future flexibility. The biggest mistake of going with the Mater would have been building on a cramped site with no room to expand.

The proposal from James' includes the new children's hospital as well as a future maternity hospital within the current campus.

I haven't read today's times though and there does seem to be a lot of confusion around which James's option has actually been chosen.

L1011 · 08-11-2012 9:40am

ninja900 wrote: »

Suggested - well according to the Irish Times today they'd switched from the original proposal (NCH adjacent to Coombe, new maternity hospital within James's) to the opposite. With an established maternity hospital nearby and lots of land available adjacent to both, there is lots of future flexibility. The biggest mistake of going with the Mater would have been building on a cramped site with no room to expand.

The media reporting on this is chronically inaccurate. I suggest you read the report rather than reading the media desperately trying to cover up the ridiculous claims they made before it came out.

James's is a cramped site with no room to expand - which the report even states. The suggestion of the Player Wills etc lands as "expansion" is about as plausible as someone suggesting that the Mater could expand on Dalymount Park, yet for some reason its being treated as realistic.

NuMarvel · 08-11-2012 2:51pm

hardCopy wrote: »

The proposal from James' includes the new children's hospital as well as a future maternity hospital within the current campus.

I haven't read today's times though and there does seem to be a lot of confusion around which James's option has actually been chosen.

I think the confusion lies in the Government going with an option that wasn't expressly put forward.

The St James' proposal was to build the NPH and a maternity hospital on the South Circular Road/Brookfield Road side of the campus. Their proposal was that the NPH would be 9 floors.

From what I understand, the Government has gone with an amended option of building the NPH in the same part of the campus, but 2 floors less, necessitating a larger footprint in order to keep the same overall floor area of 100,000 square metres.

Because this then encroaches on the area that would have been used for the maternity hospital in St James' proposal, that part of their proposal has been put aside for now.

So basically, the Government have taken the James' proposal, changed the height and width of the NPH and will deal with the maternity hospital aspect at another time.

hardCopy · 08-11-2012 7:31pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

I think the confusion lies in the Government going with an option that wasn't expressly put forward.

The St James' proposal was to build the NPH and a maternity hospital on the South Circular Road/Brookfield Road side of the campus. Their proposal was that the NPH would be 9 floors.

From what I understand, the Government has gone with an amended option of building the NPH in the same part of the campus, but 2 floors less, necessitating a larger footprint in order to keep the same overall floor area of 100,000 square metres.

Because this then encroaches on the area that would have been used for the maternity hospital in St James' proposal, that part of their proposal has been put aside for now.

So basically, the Government have taken the James' proposal, changed the height and width of the NPH and will deal with the maternity hospital aspect at another time.

Is that the case though? The Dept of Health Press Release still refers to eventually moving the maternity hospital to the James' campus. I heard mention of the Player's site on Newstalk before the announcement but since the announcement was made I haven't seen or heard any mention of it outside this thread.

Co-location with St James’s and, ultimately, tri-location with a maternity hospital on the St James’s campus, will the Government believes provide the excellence in clinical care that our children deserve.

http://www.dohc.ie/press/releases/2012/20121106.html

trellheim · 09-11-2012 6:35pm

This is the OPW report on St James's

http://www.dohc.ie/issues/childrens_hospital/opw_reports/St_James's.pdf

Worth grabbing the whole dolphin report actually

http://www.dohc.ie/issues/childrens_hospital/opw_reports/St_James's.pdf

trellheim · 09-11-2012 7:10pm

Followup : Here is the SJH + NPH traffic plans including QBC etc

http://www.dohc.ie/issues/childrens_hospital/hospital_submissions/James's/St_James's_Submission_4.pdf?direct=1

monument · 11-11-2012 7:27pm

trellheim wrote: »

Followup : Here is the SJH + NPH traffic plans including QBC etc

http://www.dohc.ie/issues/childrens_hospital/hospital_submissions/James's/St_James's_Submission_4.pdf?direct=1

The QBC would be really interisting if they could extend it west and allow buses using the campus grounds to bypass the narrower and congested sections of road between James's Street and around Emmet Road.

May be issues with buses and noise but that could be limited if it was well planned.

foggy_lad · 11-11-2012 8:06pm

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The front entrance maybe, but the new hospital is going to be built a long way around by the back. Even going by the shortest route, it means going up steps at Cromwellsfort. Great fun with a child in tow.

The hospital will be served by the Rialto Luas stop as far as the maps and drawings appear to show.

Milk & Honey wrote: »

A 600 metre tunnel would link the Coombe and St. James. That is what the medics want.

Won't that be nice for the James' street drunks and junkies to drink and take their drugs in when it is cold outside! or were the medics suggesting a tunnel just for themselves? sounds a bit like the proposed escape tunnel from the Dáil to the Dept of Finance.

monument · 12-11-2012 3:00pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Won't that be nice for the James' street drunks and junkies to drink and take their drugs in when it is cold outside! or were the medics suggesting a tunnel just for themselves? sounds a bit like the proposed escape tunnel from the Dáil to the Dept of Finance.

So, the drunks and junkies are going to be allowed into the hospitals to access the tunnel?

foggy_lad · 12-11-2012 5:29pm

monument wrote: »

So, the drunks and junkies are going to be allowed into the hospitals to access the tunnel?

Have you been to that hospital? The drunks and junkies are already in the hospital. Anyone can just walk in off the street unchallenged at any time of the day or night and although the drunks and addicts may not gain access to any tunnel there are enough of them being treated within the hospital for various illnesses and injuries to pose a problem as that would make an excellent place to inject or smoke their heroin or to drink a few cans before returning to their beds on the wards. There are daily incidents of patients being assaulted and having rows with relatives friends dealers etc in the hospital corridors and stairwells and the Luas stop in the grounds is a regular hang-out for the drunks that use the nearby homeless accommodation which is a "wet house" meaning they are allowed in when drunk and in possession of alcohol.

L1011 · 12-11-2012 6:35pm

monument wrote: »

So, the drunks and junkies are going to be allowed into the hospitals to access the tunnel?

You've obviously never been in a Dublin A&E of a weekend evening...

Whether they'd be able to gain access to any hypothetical tunnel is another question entirely though.

monument · 12-11-2012 11:26pm

MYOB wrote: »

You've obviously never been in a Dublin A&E of a weekend evening...

Whether they'd be able to gain access to any hypothetical tunnel is another question entirely though.

I sadly have been to James's A&E late on a Saturday night. I must have scrubbed that - almost sober - experience from my mind (For the record, I was helping a friend of a very drunk person not to freak out -- thankfully have never been in need of A&E on a Saturday night).

New Children's Hospital at Mater site

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