Can FF acutally manage to recover and become a major force in Irish Politics?

Victor · 06-01-2012 4:48am

The Scientician wrote: »

Fianna Fáil will be back in government next time, probably in a coalition.

With who? Nobody would touch them with someone else's twelve foot barge pole. Even if FG/Labour lose 30 seats and FF gain 30, FG/Labour would still have a majority.

The only option would be a Tallaght Strategy situation.

Chucky the tree · 06-01-2012 4:58pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

We will revist the constitution and the policies after the Ard Fheis (occurring within a matter of weeks now). An entire new constitution is in the works alongside the formation of new policy. The deadline for motions for the Ard Fheis is in fact falling this very week so I suspect a Clár detailing the motions up for discussion will be made available shortly.

Very little to discuss on the policy side until after the Ard Fheis, which I have been pointing out for the last six months. You are right in saying that, currently, FF has no real coherent and structured policy platform. That will not even begin to emerge until after the various Ardfheiseanna which are due to occur in 2012.

Its not ideal - but I think its actually good that the collective membership of the party once again can direct party policy, rather than a narrow elite dictating to others what party policy shall be.

Also the FF website is not really worth a tuppence at the moment. It has not been properly updated in months - I suspect as 2012 advances you will see an entire new website being implemented (which will actually list policy and aims which were passed at the Ard Fheis to be built upon).

What are your views as to what policies the party should undertaking?

goose2005 · 07-01-2012 1:35pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Very little to discuss on the policy side until after the Ard Fheis, which I have been pointing out for the last six months. You are right in saying that, currently, FF has no real coherent and structured policy platform. That will not even begin to emerge until after the various Ardfheiseanna which are due to occur in 2012.

Out of interest, why are you a member of a party that has no real coherent and structured policy platform? What's the point?

mistermouse · 08-01-2012 3:44am

I'd nearly hazzard the opinion that as it looks like there will be no real new alternative to FF, FG and Labour, that now is possibly the time for people who do have reasonable political opinions to look at organising a wholesale membership drive of Fianna Fail and create a decent party from within.

Given that it will have to restructure and is at a low ebb, its possibly ripe for a takeover as such!

The idea is probably not as unachievable or as unpalatable to many as joining the likes of Sinn Fein for example.

The biggest problem with Fianna Fail particularly in the past 10-15 years was that it was run by a very small group that looked after themselves, but there is probably quite a large amount of supporters that would like to follow a new direction and get rid of whatever remains of the old guard, which to many observers would also include current TDs that were ministers

Seth Brundle · 08-01-2012 2:06pm

mistermouse wrote: »

I'd nearly hazzard the opinion that as it looks like there will be no real new alternative to FF, FG and Labour, that now is possibly the time for people who do have reasonable political opinions to look at organising a wholesale membership drive of Fianna Fail and create a decent party from within.

You mean instead of hoping that the party crumbles, I should join it and help rebuild it into a honest, meaningful and credible alternative?
I know that we need a decent opposition but seriously???

PeterIanStaker · 08-01-2012 8:12pm

FF, FG & SF are outdated washed up civil war parties who have nothing to offer Ireland except decades more of the same ould sh1te.

I hope FF in particular never recover, but don't underestimate the sheer stupidity of the Irish electorate and the natural subservience to the Almighty Gombeen. That and they still have their bootlickers in the Sunday Independent to do free PR for them. Sad really.

Foxhound38 · 09-01-2012 10:51am

Mikel91 wrote: »

Lads honestly ye have no idea do ye.I dont mean to insult but my god...You both claim to have political interests but form what I cna tell you know as much as the average joe does.Do a bit more research into the party other than boards/politics.ie threads.

Liam especially you.My god we know you hate FF,We heard it through too the teeth.You constantly make accusations and ignore peoples posts fully.When ever a proper,decent discussion happens about the party,be the thread praising or criticing them..You hijack with several others and turn into one of those people that call Joe Duffy and scream down the phone making things into a non nonsensical rant.Please...just grow up /rant

You're clearly a FFer and not so neatly sidestepped my question regarding the difference between FF and FG - looking at it from a wider european perspective, I'm afraid it's not as self-evident as you seem to want to put it forward as.

Accusing others of knowing nothing about politics while refusing to deal with the issue raised is a fairly see-through attempt to be honest. Also, accusing others of being of Joe Duffy's ilk while having a nonsensical rant yourself is entertaining to say the least. Now answer the question like a good chap

Foxhound38 · 09-01-2012 10:58am

miju wrote: »

Interestingly enough FG / Lab dont seem to be reckoned to be any less corrupt than FF going by historical standards and thats international ratings too

Look at the tribunal numbers. FG has had few people hauled up in comparison, I don't think Labour has ever had anyone.

miju · 09-01-2012 1:03pm

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Look at the tribunal numbers. FG has had few people hauled up in comparison, I don't think Labour has ever had anyone.

Well like I said the internation corruption tables seem to think we've more or less stayed the same tribunals or no

The Scientician · 09-01-2012 7:57pm

Victor wrote: »

With who? Nobody would touch them with someone else's twelve foot barge pole.

It remains to be seen. Just depends on the state of the economy in the run up to the next election. I would never have thought the Greens would have got into bed with FF but they did. Obviously though that was when FF were still riding high. I think definitely medium to long term others underestimate FF at their peril.

Voodoo_rasher · 12-01-2012 9:46am

It would take a tsunami to wipe out FF (Soldiers of Infamy) and their numbskull plague of followers

They've (FF) not gone away you know!

http://www.herald.ie/news/how-down-in-dumps-ff-still-raised-550k-2985203.html

miju · 12-01-2012 1:20pm

That was raised just mainly from members alone too I do believe

12-01-2012 1:25pm

I would hate to see FF back in government. I do hope that most folk won't forget that the VAT increase, household charge etc etc combined are less than the universal social charge and than the current government have made efforts to reduce folks' on very low pay exposure to that income tax or charge.

Also our problems started with the giveaway budgets from 2002 ish.

Sierra Oscar · 12-01-2012 1:44pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

It would take a tsunami to wipe out FF (Soldiers of Infamy) and their numbskull plague of followers

They've (FF) not gone away you know!

http://www.herald.ie/news/how-down-in-dumps-ff-still-raised-550k-2985203.html

I do believe that the current plan is to reduce the parties debt year on year and eradicate it entirely in the run up to the 2014 local elections, with a large election fund expected to be built for the local elections themselves.

All such fund-raising will be raised directly through individual members or the community - corporate donations are banned within the party.

Bishop_Donal · 12-01-2012 10:03pm

I think there is a genuine chance that FF will be the largest party in the next Dáil. It really only requires about 1 to 2% of a switch after each budget from FG to FF. That seems very likely to me bearing in mind the backlash we have seen after the recent very soft budget.

It seems that the aggregate vote for those parties really doesn't want to travel too far across the political spectrum.

tayto lover · 12-01-2012 11:11pm

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I think there is a genuine chance that FF will be the largest party in the next Dáil. It really only requires about 1 to 2% of a switch after each budget from FG to FF. That seems very likely to me bearing in mind the backlash we have seen after the recent very soft budget.

It seems that the aggregate vote for those parties really doesn't want to travel too far across the political spectrum.

There is absolutely no chance. The budgets will remind us of the trouble they caused. Politics is changing. I can see a big shift towards the left though as F.G. are just F.F. Mk.2 as they are taking on their policies. The voters are no fools, just look at the recent referenda.

Bishop_Donal · 12-01-2012 11:41pm

tayto lover wrote: »

There is absolutely no chance. The budgets will remind us of the trouble they caused. Politics is changing. I can see a big shift towards the left though as F.G. are just F.F. Mk.2 as they are taking on their policies. The voters are no fools, just look at the recent referenda.

Well, I don't see it going to Labour. So it will be interesting to see where it winds up then.

A lot of people just won't vote SF when push comes to shove.

tayto lover · 13-01-2012 12:50am

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Well, I don't see it going to Labour. So it will be interesting to see where it winds up then.

A lot of people just won't SF when push comes to shove.

I agree but I can see the emergence of a new party which if run properly will sweep the boards. The people are crying out for change.

Liam Byrne · 13-01-2012 5:40pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I agree but I can see the emergence of a new party which if run properly will sweep the boards. The people are crying out for change.

SOME people are crying out for change.

Others will wax lyrical about change but - if it affects them - won't accept it and won't vote for it.

My issue is that any party that approaches that change FAIRLY and RELATIVELY across the board will be given consideration.

The problem is that everyone has their own definition of those subjective words.

Bishop_Donal · 13-01-2012 7:46pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I agree but I can see the emergence of a new party which if run properly will sweep the boards. The people are crying out for change.

That's certainly true & I concur with you, but is has been true for a long time now. The fact that no-one seems to have taken the initiative before now would concern me that no-one is going to.

john reilly · 13-01-2012 8:43pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I agree but I can see the emergence of a new party which if run properly will sweep the boards. The people are crying out for change.

Crying out for change really. why then did they vote for f.g and lab. when there was only one party offering real change. This amazing new party where wil it stand on issues like abortion, northern ireland, public sector pay, social welfare payouts, tax rates, dealing with unions, dealing with e,u and the imf. Just some non contraversial issues like that were it should be easy to get agreement.

Chucky the tree · 15-01-2012 6:32pm

john reilly wrote: »

Crying out for change really. why then did they vote for f.g and lab. when there was only one party offering real change. This amazing new party where wil it stand on issues like abortion, northern ireland, public sector pay, social welfare payouts, tax rates, dealing with unions, dealing with e,u and the imf. Just some non contraversial issues like that were it should be easy to get agreement.

What party was this? I certainly don't remember any party offering us real change.

dublinman1990 · 17-01-2012 4:04am

I've seen 2 young FF canvassers who were handing out leaflets for Barry Andrews during the last GE. They were handing out pens in addition to their canvass leaflet. I knew particularly by their age, that was all well and good, However, their class in comparison to mine was definitely striking.

It was highly likely that those young canvassers were from Blackrock College. I say that because Barry Andrews was a past pupil there. He got those two to work for him because he probably didn't want to seen out in public too much as being part of a government who

Another Point - That €550k being raised in the super draw displayed in the herald article may have more likely been raised in part probably by the canvassers wealthy parents rather than ordinary working joe soaps.

From a perspective viewpoint, people have got to look from at the members of any other party, particularly grass root members, to see what they are actually like.

I haven't met them, but, it would make the public's vote a real difference for future GE IMO.

Liam Byrne · 17-01-2012 1:19pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

john reilly wrote: »

Crying out for change really. why then did they vote for f.g and lab. when there was only one party offering real change. This amazing new party where wil it stand on issues like abortion, northern ireland, public sector pay, social welfare payouts, tax rates, dealing with unions, dealing with e,u and the imf. Just some non contraversial issues like that were it should be easy to get agreement.

What party was this? I certainly don't remember any party offering us real change.

I'd be interested in finding out too, because I was stuck as to who to vote for.

raymon · 19-01-2012 1:02am

"Michael Martin attacked Enda Kenny today in the dail over ........... "

I am no fan of Enda, but this is the type of whinge politics headlines we expect to see from the FFers daily for the next few years. Just fill in the blank word yourself daily

That's right the same crowd that bankrupted the country . They caused this mess.

To answer the op ... I don't think you can whinge your way back to recovery especially when you caused the mess.

fatalll · 19-01-2012 1:08am

RoverJames wrote: »

I would hate to see FF back in government. I do hope that most folk won't forget that the VAT increase, household charge etc etc combined are less than the universal social charge and than the current government have made efforts to reduce folks' on very low pay exposure to that income tax or charge.

Also our problems started with the giveaway budgets from 2002 ish.

Can I ask..did you complain at the time?
I dont think any of us did you see...or very few...
I think the 100% mortgages were the start of it...Financial Regulator/ Central Bank, Government and TD's to blame

btw...i vote every different way..
have voted FF, FG, SF, Labour...

Liam Byrne · 19-01-2012 1:22am

fatalll wrote: »

RoverJames wrote: »

I would hate to see FF back in government. I do hope that most folk won't forget that the VAT increase, household charge etc etc combined are less than the universal social charge and than the current government have made efforts to reduce folks' on very low pay exposure to that income tax or charge.

Also our problems started with the giveaway budgets from 2002 ish.

Can I ask..did you complain at the time?
I dont think any of us did you see...or very few...
I think the 100% mortgages were the start of it...Financial Regulator/ Central Bank, Government and TD's to blame

btw...i vote every different way..
have voted FF, FG, SF, Labour...

You'd be wrong on the bit in bold.

I did.
I walked out of a bank and closed an account when they mentioned "property ladder", telling them I wanted a home
I stuck to my guns on a loan re a house when they said I could have double (which they knew I couldn't afford, based on figures I gave them)
I ignored what people said my house would eventually be worth after renovations and did what I needed, not what some TV show or estate agent would have tried to say "the market would love"
I told people they were crazy putting cars and holidays and credit card bills onto mortgages, since they wouldn't remember the destination or car reg or whatever in 40 years time
I refused to charge people double just because they had it; my prices have barely changed since the recession (because they weren't bloated) and thankfully I'm busier than ever the past 8 months or so

And I doubt I was alone considering Ahern told those like me to commit suicide - I'm not THAT high-profile!

So lose the inverted "we all" please.

tayto lover · 19-01-2012 11:25am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You'd be wrong on the bit in bold.

I did.
I walked out of a bank and closed an account when they mentioned "property ladder", telling them I wanted a home
I stuck to my guns on a loan re a house when they said I could have double (which they knew I couldn't afford, based on figures I gave them)
I ignored what people said my house would eventually be worth after renovations and did what I needed, not what some TV show or estate agent would have tried to say "the market would love"
I told people they were crazy putting cars and holidays and credit card bills onto mortgages, since they wouldn't remember the destination or car reg or whatever in 40 years time
I refused to charge people double just because they had it; my prices have barely changed since the recession (because they weren't bloated) and thankfully I'm busier than ever the past 8 months or so

And I doubt I was alone considering Ahern told those like me to commit suicide - I'm not THAT high-profile!

So lose the inverted "we all" please.

I wouldn't even take a credit card as I always believed in buying something when I have the money in my hand. Refused a top-up on my mortgage when I nearly had it paid off and drove the car I could afford despite being offered money for a new one by the bank. I never went on a foreign holiday despite being offered the loan for it. Yet people are telling me on here that I have had it good. This "we all" is very annoying.

newman10 · 20-01-2012 11:04am

But in light of the arrogance shown by Noonan regarding emigration of young people, FG should be careful that they do not become the new FF

Sierra Oscar · 20-01-2012 8:14pm

The nominations for the internal party positions to be filled by election at the Ard Fheis have closed and a list of candidates has been published.

The sheer volume of people seeking election this time around affirms my belief that this Ard Fheis is going to be a big one in terms of moving towards party reform - although the challenge for the party will be to walk the walk after all the discussing and debating at the Ard Fheis itself.

Liam Byrne · 22-01-2012 12:29pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The nominations for the internal party positions to be filled by election at the Ard Fheis have closed and a list of candidates has been published.

No-one credible running for party president ?

miju · 24-01-2012 12:29pm

Wider Road wrote: »

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Look at the tribunal numbers. FG has had few people hauled up in comparison, I don't think Labour has ever

The Bernard Lynch story needs a Tribunal all to its-self.
Bernard Lynch, husband of Jnr Minister Kathleen was given a sentence in 1975 along with 4 others for the murder of Larry White. Bernard got released because a warrant was out of date and his brother Ciaran is a Labour TD in Cork. Its widely believed that Bernard pulled the trigger the night Larry White was murdered.
The current govt employ Bernard Lynch!!!

Tribunals or not the figures tell their own story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Wider Road · 24-01-2012 1:11pm

And your point is?

Liam Byrne · 25-01-2012 12:21pm

miju wrote: »

Wider Road wrote: »

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Look at the tribunal numbers. FG has had few people hauled up in comparison, I don't think Labour has ever

The Bernard Lynch story needs a Tribunal all to its-self.
Bernard Lynch, husband of Jnr Minister Kathleen was given a sentence in 1975 along with 4 others for the murder of Larry White. Bernard got released because a warrant was out of date and his brother Ciaran is a Labour TD in Cork. Its widely believed that Bernard pulled the trigger the night Larry White was murdered.
The current govt employ Bernard Lynch!!!

Tribunals or not the figures tell their own story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Nice to see that index mentions nepotism - some that Ahern openly admitted to and yet it wasn't followed up on by the media.

miju · 25-01-2012 7:52pm

very true. but nepotism is also most certainly very rife in the current government also despite FG and LAB cries of FF nepotism when they were in opposition they are just as bad if not worse

tayto lover · 25-01-2012 10:04pm

newman10 wrote: »

But in light of the arrogance shown by Noonan regarding emigration of young people, FG should be careful that they do not become the new FF

Too late.

Voodoo_rasher · 26-01-2012 2:47pm

you mean the same Soldiers of Infamy who took (and swallowed) flawed

advice from predatory banks (G o l d m a n 'Sucks, R o t s child s) believed it,

and sold us down the swanny..please!

They've (FF) not gone away you know ; )

[Jackass] · 27-01-2012 9:37pm

They will be the leading party in forming the next Government, because the majority of Irish people are tribal idiots.

They will always be the biggest political party, and Ireland will always exist in mire.

Freiheit · 28-01-2012 10:20pm

Theyr'e at 18% in the new poll....where is the alternative???....

We need new parties,F.G.,Labour,F.F. 3 sides of the one coin,S.F. economic illiterates. There's nobody in my heart who I feel deserves my vote.

raymon · 29-01-2012 9:29am

To answer the op , FF are definitely stagnating.

At 18% in the latest poll, their whinge politics has not got them off their low stoop.

Even independents and SF are on the rise at the expense of FG/lab

Stuck in the mud

john reilly · 29-01-2012 11:04am

raymon wrote: »

To answer the op , FF are definitely stagnating.

At 18% in the latest poll, their whinge politics has not got them off their low stoop.

Even independents and SF are on the rise at the expense of FG/lab

Stuck in the mud

just let it go all this anger .its not good for your health

raymon · 29-01-2012 11:37am

john reilly wrote: »

just let it go all this anger .its not good for your health

Just answering th op...... no anger .

Sierra Oscar · 29-01-2012 2:23pm

raymon wrote: »

To answer the op , FF are definitely stagnating.

At 18% in the latest poll, their whinge politics has not got them off their low stoop.

Even independents and SF are on the rise at the expense of FG/lab

Stuck in the mud

This is coming from the fella that stated when the last opinion poll came out that FF were in freefall.

FF will not be making any gains in the poll in the short term.

raymon · 29-01-2012 2:29pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

This is coming from the fella that stated when the last opinion poll came out that FF were in freefall.

FF will not be making any gains in the poll in the short term.

True , it doesnt look like a freefall after all just a stagnation.

I was wrong .

Wider Road · 29-01-2012 3:28pm

raymon wrote: »

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

This is coming from the fella that stated when the last opinion poll came out that FF were in freefall.

FF will not be making any gains in the poll in the short term.

True , it doesnt look like a freefall after all just a stagnation.

I was wrong .

When was the current poll taken?

davidv · 01-02-2012 1:28am

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

It would take a tsunami to wipe out FF (Soldiers of Infamy) and their numbskull plague of followers

They've (FF) not gone away you know!

http://www.herald.ie/news/how-down-in-dumps-ff-still-raised-550k-2985203.html

the link says that ff have managed to raise 500k recently. i think the government should confiscate it and put towards the national debt.

thebman · 01-02-2012 1:45am

I thought they were against political donations these days? Isn't 550,000 Euro of raffle sales a bit unlikely if just Joe Soaps who expect nothing back are buying?

Seems like just a better hidden form of political donations (and I'm aware the other dodgy parties are at it too, it still doesn't make it right).

Mikel91 · 01-02-2012 12:30pm

thebman wrote: »

I thought they were against political donations these days? Isn't 550,000 Euro of raffle sales a bit unlikely if just Joe Soaps who expect nothing back are buying?

Seems like just a better hidden form of political donations (and I'm aware the other dodgy parties are at it too, it still doesn't make it right).

Well when your wear a tin foil hat you would think that :P

The tickets sold for 50 quid each so broken down thats 11k tickets bought.Nothing doge about that.

raymon · 01-02-2012 12:54pm

Mikel91 wrote: »

Well when your wear a tin foil hat you would think that :P

The tickets sold for 50 quid each so broken down thats 11k tickets bought.Nothing doge about that.

I agree .I don't see anything dodgy about this .

However it would be a good gesture for them to hand over a few hundred thousand to SVP , Simon Community or Salvation army to alleviate some of the suffering they caused.

Mikel91 · 01-02-2012 8:48pm

The party themselves are in debt so you cant really call for that.

Also the grassroots of the organisation raise huge amounts and do allot of charity/volunteer work.

Can FF acutally manage to recover and become a major force in Irish Politics?

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