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Mahon Tribunal report

  • 21-03-2012 1:51am
    #1
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭


    Unverified but this has been tweeted a little earlier by Village Magazine which is reputable enough with sources:


    Thursday 10 am Mahon Tribunal report, now. Mah'n and boy.


    VillageMagIRE
    Village Magazine



    4326f39cc6e2.gif

    [MOD]Report is here: http://www.flood-tribunal.ie/images/sitecontent_921.pdf[/MOD]


«13

Comments

  • #2
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    This could be reliable given that the editor Michael Smith instigated the whole thing.

    Calls for this I think...


    theSnoopyDance.gif


  • #3
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    I wonder will criminal charges follow?


  • #4
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    So what else is going to be announced on Thursday then? It must be really bad news if they are thinking about (finally) hurling out the Mahon report as cover


  • #5
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    It's weird how the media and certain commentators are quiet about the length of time (far too long - not the Tribunal's fault) and the costs (despite it being potentially self-financing) until very particular times - Ahern's evidence for example, or when the Quarryvale module was on, and now when the report is near publication.


  • #6
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    So any word? I don't think it's been denied.


    EDIT: RTE news tweet just now


    RTÉ News ‏ @rtenews Close
    A government spokesperson has said ministers expect that the Mahon Tribunal Report will be published tomorrow.


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  • #7
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    darkman2 wrote: »
    So any word? I don't think it's been denied.


    EDIT: RTE news tweet just now



    Lets up it lives up to the expectations.


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    THE MAHON TRIBUNAL’S final report into planning corruption and payments to politicians will be published tomorrow morning, TheJournal.ie understands.

    The Tribunal of Inquiry Into Certain Planning Matters and Payments was established almost 15 years ago and is the longest running tribunal in the history of the State. It is expected to cost as much as €300 million when final legal bills are settled.
    The publication date of the final report has been the subject of much speculation in recent weeks. This evening, RTÉ political correspondent David Davin Power told the Six One News that a government source had confirmed to him the report would be published tomorrow.

    TheJournal.ie has been able to confirm separately with a source close to the tribunal that its final report will be published tomorrow morning. It is expected to go live on the Mahon Tribunal’s website at 10am.

    On Tuesday night, Village magazine tweeted to say the report would be published at 10am on Thursday.

    Later Politics.ie noted that the magazine, previously owned by broadcaster and journalist Vincent Browne, is now published by Michael Smith, who, along with barrister Colm MacEochaidh, initially offered a IRL£10,000 reward for information that would lead to convictions for planning corruption.

    The tribunal, which was initially chaired by Judge Feargus Flood and later Judge Alan Mahon, has spent the past 15 years investigating allegations of corrupt payments to politicians for the rezoning of land for development in the Dublin area.

    The report is expected to deal extensively with the financial affairs of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern who was forced to resign in 2008 amid ongoing controversy over evidence he gave to the tribunal concerning payments from developer Owen O’Callaghan.

    Ahern has consistently denied any wrongdoing but questions were raised after his evidence was contradicted during the proceedings.

    The report’s publication will come on the first anniversary of the publication of the Moriarty Tribunal’s final report into payments to politicians and related matters. That report was heavily critical of former government minister Michael Lowry.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/mahon-tribunal-report-to-be-published-tomorrow-morning-391789-Mar2012


    bursting with excitement.


  • #9
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Everyone confirms that the Mahon report will be out tomorrow.

    I am happy because we will no longer be spending 100s of millions of euros on this farce.

    Politicians don't receive justice.
    Bertie will never see a day in jail, nor will Lowry , Callely , etc

    Everyone knew Bertie didn't win it on the horses. I didn't need to spend 300 million to overpaid solicitors and judges to tell me that.


  • #10
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    raymon wrote: »
    Everyone knew Bertie didn't win it on the horses. I didn't need to spend 300 million to overpaid solicitors and judges to tell me that.
    I'm seeing a lot of this sort of reaction. I'm not clear what your point is: would we be better off as a country not having had an investigation, and contenting ourselves with simply "knowing" that corruption is happening?


  • #11
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I'm seeing a lot of this sort of reaction. I'm not clear what your point is: would we be better off as a country not having had an investigation, and contenting ourselves with simply "knowing" that corruption is happening?

    You are missing the point completely.

    Tribunals are a very inefficient way of bringing people to justice.
    300000000 euro spent and at the end nobody is jailed ??!!

    The cost is too high and the outcome is inconsequential. It will be talked about for a week then forgotten about.

    Think how many white collar criminals could be brought to justice by investing 300,000,000 euro into a white collar crime unit.

    Please tell me why you think tribunals are good ?


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  • #12
    Slydice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Why is it out tomorrow? We supposed to be paying an anglo bond or something:confused:


  • #13
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    raymon wrote: »
    You are missing the point completely.

    Tribunals are a very inefficient way of bringing people to justice.
    300000000 euro spent and at the end nobody is jailed ??!!

    The cost is too high and the outcome is inconsequential. It will be talked about for a week then forgotten about.

    Think how many white collar criminals could be brought to justice by investing 300,000,000 euro into a white collar crime unit.
    With respect, I don't think I missed the point: I think you didn't make the point. If you wanted to suggest that a criminal prosecution should have been brought instead of a tribunal, you should first of all have said so, and secondly have made a compelling case that there was sufficient evidence to achieve a conviction for corruption.
    Please tell me why you think tribunals are good ?
    I didn't say tribunals are good, I challenged your apparent assertion that not having had a tribunal would have been better than having a tribunal.


  • #14
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    With respect, I don't think I missed the point: I think you didn't make the point. If you wanted to suggest that a criminal prosecution should have been brought instead of a tribunal, you should first of all have said so, and secondly have made a compelling case that there was sufficient evidence to achieve a conviction for corruption. I didn't say tribunals are good, I challenged your apparent assertion that not having had a tribunal would have been better than having a tribunal.

    My original point was that the tribunal cost at 300 million was too expensive and that politicians generally don't see justice anyway.


  • #15
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    What will today's report tell us that a subscription to the backissues of the Irish Times couldn't. We have heard it all before during the years and years and years of hearings. Today is just a reminder of the hundreds of millions wasted by people we foolishly trusted (politicians and then lawyers). In my opinion they are both as bad as each other when it comes to abuse of the trust placed in them and waste of taxpayer's money. They were all happy to trade their reputations for wealth. I'll be turning off the radio and TV for the day. To hell with them all.


  • #16
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Mahon Tribunal report could be out on Thursday

    Does it really matter? Because it will undoubtedly be utterly toothless and impotent in its findings


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Supposed to be online now but the website is sloooooooooow


  • #18
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    You'll find it here:

    http://www.flood-tribunal.ie/images/sitecontent_921.pdf

    Still waiting to download it myself!


  • #19
    Darsad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Darsad


    Ahern bound to be out of the country ! keep his head down for a week or two probelm solved and we will all move on just like we did with Lowry !
    We dont do accountability !


  • #20
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    The findings against DOB didn't do him much harm. Up ringing the stock exchange bell with Enda.


  • #21
    sunshinediver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 170 ✭✭sunshinediver


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    So what else is going to be announced on Thursday then? It must be really bad news if they are thinking about (finally) hurling out the Mahon report as cover

    My bet would be on some sort of Anglo promissory note deal.


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  • #22
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    From the Journal.ie
    Page 2481 of the report states that much of the explanation provided by Bertie Ahern as to the source of the substantial funds identified and inquired into during the Tribunal’s public hearings was deemed by the Tribunal to have been untrue.


  • #23
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Its fecking huge! 80 mbs approx.


  • #24
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Delving into it now, it is huge!

    Much of Aherns evidence in regards the cash payments seems to be have been rejected - although no corruption claims can be validated as the source of the cash cannot be validated . . . but people can read between the lines on that one.

    Sort of a Moriarty 2.0 . . .

    EDIT: Former FG Cllr Liam Cosgrave confirmed corrupt . . .


  • #25
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Really not looking good for Bertie, from my reading, it is saying that they don't believe anything he put to them as the truth.


  • #26
    Villain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,951 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    umm so the Mahon Tribunal has agreed with my opinions of Bertie's evidence.

    Don't suppose the mods here want to offer me an apology for been banned years ago for saying exactly what the Tribunal has said today!


  • #27
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    You better find the post in question!


  • #28
    Holy Warlord
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Holy Warlord


    300 million notes for... what? What exactly will happen because of this long-time-coming report? Will those corrupt and 'merely lying' politicians and developers get their comeuppances? Have to repay things from a 6 by 12 prison cell?


  • #29
    Villain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,951 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Mike for starters:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53345777

    Have a read of the thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055100299


  • #30
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #31
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2012/03/20120322mahonreport.pdf


  • #32
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,796 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Unless the parties named in the report as having abused their offices are charged and tried as criminals , I see little point to this. It's my opinion that corruption in office should be considered treason against the state and if convicted, the guilty person(s) should receive the sentence detailed for such a crime.

    in the case of treason or murder, shall in passing sentence specify as the minimum period of imprisonment to be served by that person a period of not less than forty years,

    Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec4


  • #33
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #34
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    The Tribunal says its investigations into Bertie Ahern's accounts sought to establish or exclude a connection between funds related Mr Ahern and Mr Owen O'Callaghan but its inquiries in this regard were "inconclusive."
    This was so because much of the explanations provided by Ahern, as to the source of the substantial funds available to him, were deemed by the Tribunal to be "untrue".
    The report stops short of a corruption finding in respect of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern but it totally rejects his evidence and that of related witnesses about the sources of monies in his own and related bank accounts.
    It says Ahern failed to truthfully account for a total of IR£165,214.25 passing through accounts connected with him.

    Just wonderful, so now the taxpayer has spent an ungodly amount of money to substantiate what a lot of us have known / suspected for quite a while but other than that SFA has been achieved.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. (H. L. Mencken )

    Turns out I'm normal after all....who knew...


  • #35
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Villain wrote: »
    Mike for starters:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53345777

    Have a read of the thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055100299
    Villain wrote: »
    umm so the Mahon Tribunal has agreed with my opinions of Bertie's evidence.

    Don't suppose the mods here want to offer me an apology for been banned years ago for saying exactly what the Tribunal has said today!

    We're going to clear this up once, and then you can take it to PM etc etc

    You've linked to a thread from 2007 - closed by a Mod who is no longer a Mod, and with a final comment from a poster who at the time was a site Admin.

    That final post makes it very clear why the thread was closed and potentially heading for trouble, not just as a thread, but could have led to issues for the site in general.

    If you really do have an issue, then I suggest you take it up with the current site Admins.

    Cheers

    DrG


  • #36
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Paraic Flynn found to have taken corrupt payments - bought a farm with the money. I doubt CAB will go knocking on the door....but it should.

    Bertie and friends found to be total liars. Corruption not found only because the evidence was inconclusive, because the testimony of 14 witnesses was found to be bollox.

    So what's the penalty for bare faced lying to a tribunal? Wasn't Grainne Carruth threatened with some penalty until she broke down?

    We should never forget that FF supported Ahern throughout this and senior members attacked the independence of the tribunal. Shame on FF, shame on Bertie.


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  • #37
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Will someone do a document search for Micheal Martin and find out what the report makes of him and the allegation of him receiving a five figure sum


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0624/mahon.html

    2004
    former Fianna Fáil councillor says his life has been 'made hell' by what he claims was a false allegation of corruption by Tom Gilmartin

    2012 - page 2456 of mahon final report
    Cllr Hanrahan corruptlly sought a payment of IR$100,000 from Mr Gilmartin, in return for his support for the rezoning of the Quarryvale lands.


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Page 2457
    The tribunal was satisfied that complaints made to the Gardai by Mr Gilmartin about Mr George Redmond, Mr Liam Lawlor & Cllr Finbarr Hanrahan were not thoroughly investigated by the Gardai in the course of their inquiry. Notwithstanding Superintendent Burns` evidence to the contrary

    Gardai Complicit.
    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Unless the parties named in the report as having abused their offices are charged and tried as criminals , I see little point to this. It's my opinion that corruption in office should be considered treason against the state and if convicted, the guilty person(s) should receive the sentence detailed for such a crime.




    Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec4


  • #40
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,308 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    My favourite line so far
    corruption affected every level of Irish political ife, those with the power to stop it were frequently implicated in it


  • #41
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Des Peelo spinning on RTE radio.


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  • #42
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Michael Martin clearly sweating if he's waiting until tomorrow to make a statement.


  • #43
    Darsad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Darsad


    The Mahon report simply shows that corruption is and was a society issue if as the report states "corruption affected every level of political / public life". Its the same as our drink culture , corruption was and probably still is a way of life , its how things were done or how one got things done. I doubt too many others given the same opportunity would not avail of the odd brown paper envelope. Maybe just maybe the Moriarty and Mahon reports will bring about the required cultural change required.


  • #44
    Villain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,951 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    The thing that annoys me is that it was obvious from the Tribunals sittings that Bertie was lying before he won the 2007 election and again obvious when McDowell kept him in Government, it's just been confirmed now.

    I mean take the Dollar transaction alone, no one could have believed it wasn't Dollar's based on the facts that were presented. McDowell's reputation might be a little lower afte today.


  • #45
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Laminations wrote: »
    Will someone do a document search for Micheal Martin and find out what the report makes of him and the allegation of him receiving a five figure sum

    And that is on top of the £5,000 in early 90s, when 10,000 to 12,000 was average industrial wage, that he deposited in a bank account in Dublin belonging to his wife/girlfriend. :rolleyes:

    How did RTE manage to get the charlie and bertie money man, des peelo, to appear ?
    He is still pedalling sh**e about even if aherns finances were bizzare it doesn't make them untrue.

    The most damming indictment of fianna fail and indeed the former PDs, (step on up mr mdowell who in 2007 was complaining the tribunal would cost 1 billion), is that the cabinet of the time was trying to pull the Tribunal down.

    Now how many of the current ff frontbench were in that cabinet ?

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jmayo wrote: »
    And that is on top of the £5,000 in early 90s, when 10,000 to 12,000 was average industrial wage, that he deposited in a bank account in Dublin belonging to his wife/girlfriend. :rolleyes:

    I sincerely hope there is emphasis put onto this fact in the Irish news media. What might seem like smallish figures now were quite large back in the day. 'sall relative, lads.


  • #47
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The systematic corruption within the political system is just sick.


  • #48
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    will CAB be knocking on Pee Flynn's door?


  • #49
    Sideshow Mark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭Sideshow Mark


    So Mr Ahern is a liar and a corrupt politician, wonder how many years it will take before he (or anyone else mentioned in the tribunal) sees the inside of a prison cell?

    On the bright side it has to be the end of Fianna Fail


  • #50
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Laminations wrote: »
    Will someone do a document search for Micheal Martin and find out what the report makes of him and the allegation of him receiving a five figure sum

    There are a few references around one payment directly to m.m. (the first quote) and two to projects/funds related to him.

    Page 384
    Riga's half year accounts to 31 October 1991 revealed that a IR£5,000 political contribution made by Riga to Mr Micheál Martin in June 2001 was identified exactly as that

    That payment appears to be above board (what did m.m. say about it?).

    Page 724
    The political donations to politcal parties, including Fianna Fáil, made by Riga Ltd & O'Callaghan Properties Ltd, as recorded on the books of those companies, suggested that, for 1989, the two companies expeded a total of just IR£1,400 on five donations, including the sum of IR£1,000 paid towards a secondary school project, and referable to Mr Micheál Martin TD.

    Seems to have been paid to the project not m.m.


    Page 725
    In July 1993, O'Callaghan Properties Ltd made a payment of IR£5,000 to the Atlantic Pond Fund, a charitable purpose, at the request of Mr Micheál Martin

    Doesn't seem to have been paid to m.m.


  • #51
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Sideshow Mark wrote: »
    So Mr Ahern is a liar and a corrupt politician

    Ah now you can't say he is corrupt, sure his 'friends' are flooding the airwaves emphasising that the tribunal didn't find him corrupt.

    But then again, you can't say he is not corrupt, the tribunal couldn't judge either way. Inconclusive. His friends are trying to avoid this truth, and the reasons behind it being that he spun such a line of sh1te.


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