RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

Could I ask the knowledgeable folks here if anyone can see a method of achieving the perfect solution for the following situation.

I have a camper where the TV and the motorised satellite dish both run on 12V. (I have attached a pdf that show the Specs and the Rear View of the Receiver) The receiver is a standard FTA receiver but pressing the Menu button brings up the full satellite set-up menus. This includes the motorised system. There is no Diseqc control system built in.

Being a standard FTA system there are no Irish Channels available on the list. The TV has 'Freeview' but obviously will not receive Saorview and would need a Saorview adaptor, however being in a tin box UHF off-air TV reception is practically non existent without an external aerial and the only external aerial that i have is the dish.

Back to the ideal solution. My ideal solution would be a Freesat Receiver that will control the motorised dish, have provision for the second KA Band LNB required for Saorsat. And of course all must work off 12V.

If the ideal solution is not achievable; then how much of it is possible? Of course my main objective is to be able to receive our Irish channels while in the camper.

Any suggestions will be very welcome.

Dave

That manual mentions DVB-S only not DVB-S2 which is needed for SaorSat.

You need a Freesat HD or other HD DVB-S2 receiver with Diseqc. You can't use the same LNB for Saorsat and anything else, so motorised is a problem for Freesat + Saorsat. There are two solutions though to Motorised.

davidod1 wrote: »

I have a camper ....Any suggestions will be very welcome.

You can run 240V systems from an inverter. Any self seeking satellite system is mega bucks. If you are willing to manaully adjust the dish then any portable kit will do. The smaller the dish the easier to align.

For SaorSat and 28.2 on the one self-aligning dish you need to mount two LNB's right beside each other. You may need a mechanical switch, to switch LNBs if the receiver does not have DiSEqC 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 etc

The receiver needs to be DVB-S2. The dish needs to be a non DOME type so you can mount a second LNB.

A dish like this might work, depending on if it can handle the weight of two LNBs:
http://www.satellitesuperstore.com/motorhome-satellite.htm#flatsat

A portable dish on a tripod would be a lot cheaper.

You need to confirm it can take the weight of two LNBs and the receiver will switch between them.

60cm may be too small. We don't know for sure yet.

davidod1 wrote: »

My problem is how to incorporate the Irish Channels in to the existing system.

It is a 60cm dish and there shouldn't be any problems fitting a 2nd LNB.

One test is to see can you currently receive BBC HD etc. That will confirm if the box is DVB-S2 capable (probably not)

One easy test is to use the existing LNB to see if you can see the other channels at 9 East at 11-12 Ghz.

http://www.lyngsat.com/eb9a.html

This will confirm you can turn the dish to that position.

When at 9 east physically swap the LNB and hook the Saorsat LNB in it's place and connect to a HD box.

If this works OK then tape/mount the KA LNB right beside the normal LNB, ideally 4 degrees off. Then get the existing receiver and LNB to automatically track to 13East. (9+4) Once the normal LNB is locked at 13 east the KA, offset, should be at 9 east.

Inititally use a second HD box with it's own feed from the second LNB. Then try to use this box to control the motorised dish, if it's even possible. If it does then add a mechanical switch for switching LNBs or ideally a DiSEqC switch if that works.

If not try to use the old box for setting dish position, but feed the new box from both LNBs via a DiSEqC switch. You may need to use the old remote to turn the dish, but at least all the channels would appear on the one box.

A step by step slowly, slowly approach is best.

Let us know how you get on. I can draw a diagram if it's clear as mud.

Another thing might be worth contacting the manufacturer to see if there newer boxes are MPEG4 DVB-S2 and if they are compatable with the old dish. There is a web link at the end of the PDF, their site has a brochure in French, but all equipment is probably a newer model.

If the newer receivers could do everything then it would be a neat solution.

I have an 8 way diseqc switch marked "BEST" made in Germany. It has been working ok for quite some time without any problems. I have been using port 8 connected to a motorised dish that I move with a second receiver. This enables me to combine the diseqc for the fixed dishes (42E,39E,28E,23.5E,19E,13E) with the motor for the rest. The other day I connected this port (output 8) to a ka band lnb and it worked ok. Saorsat received. When I connected back the ku band lnb is was a little dodgy at first and has since failed altogether. The lnb is ok but the diseqc switch port no longer works for either ku or ka band. I wont connect the ka lnb to a different port until I have a replacement 8 way switch to hand. Has anyone else had any similar problems.

Above is the image I created a while ago based on dishpointer's info. There was some questions as to whether the spots were accurately placed when compared to Eutelsat's own original maps, however my map has proved very accurate, in reality on the ground.

I started comparing to tooways own "colour" recommending tool.

http://finder.tooway-instal.com/fixe/pages/index.html

Using the above tool you can find the most recommended spot (colour) for your location.

By clicking all over the map you can find where one colour starts to be recommended and another stops. THIS DOES NOT SHOW COVERAGE. It simply gives you an indication of which spot is stronger. For coverage we need to compare the actual spots (which this does not give) and compare the interference from other spots of the same colour.

So I think my first image above gives the best information.

However, assuming dishpointer cannot be trusted, I attempted to glean as much information from tooway's site on what the coverage is.


HERE IS MY NEWEST MAP:
http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~tdr/map.htm

Is is interactive and you can zoom in etc.
If you click on the + in the top right you can remove spots etc.

If the above link does not work for you, photos of the above map are here:
http://imgur.com/a/fVpfJ

such as:


THE MAIN FLAW WITH THIS PLAN IS THAT WHERE COLOURS MEET THE MAP GIVES A STRIAGHT LINE. This is not ideal. However from the curvey lines in south west Ireland, and north east scotland, you can get an idea of spot shape and size


Our main interest is the Irish spot and east scottish spot. This affects coverage in the Isle of man and north wales etc.

So basic summary:
I still think there will be coverage in all of the North of Ireland, despite this map.

I must give a big thank you to the guys from http://www.tog.ie that helped me with this. Without them I couldn't have managed it. They performed all the data crunching and geo mapping and made it interactive. It was a team effort with no one person managing it all.

no breakup here in clare but just a test card on rte jr, q is 24% best i get is 44q but it seems to retain pic even at 0 q!! spider as well.

gbc

The amount of "quality" needed depends on the FEC. For example feeds may use 7/8 and thus use less spectrum. But big dishes needed, quality needs to be very high. Saorsat is using 1/2, very high errors is possible to be corrected, i.e. low quality. More common signals are 3/4 or 5/6

Guess they do not have proof readers , at least one spelling mistake on there.

"7.3 How Big Dose My Dish Have To Be?"

Tony wrote: »

Guess they do not have proof readers , at least one spelling mistake on there.

"7.3 How Big Dose My Dish Have To Be?"

No problem just

talk to you local installer.

and he will fix it!

Would this setup work? http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Irish-Saorsat-Free-Air-Satellite-KIT-TRIAX-TD78-78cm-Dish-/150769192143?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item231a8b4ccf#ht_959wt_952

78cm TRIAX TD Satellite Dish
25cm Wall mount
Inverto Twin KA Band HD Ready LNB Saorsat Compatible
4 Fixing bolts and plugs
GT DiSEqC 2.0 2x1 switch
Golden Media Universal Single LNB 0.1 db FULL HD 3D Ready
Triax TD Multiblock LNB Holder for 4 LND
20m RG6 Coax Cable
10 f-connectors

Price seems ok at €98.98

RogerThis wrote: »

Would this setup work? http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Irish-Saorsat-Free-Air-Satellite-KIT-TRIAX-TD78-78cm-Dish-/150769192143?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item231a8b4ccf#ht_959wt_952

Price seems ok at €98.98

>78cm TRIAX TD Satellite Dish

As I have linked to, dish size depends on where you live. For Saorsat the info we have are dark green and light green areas need a different dish size. For 28.2 dishes also need to be bigger in south west. So it depends. Also read my link to picking up Saorsat and 28.2 on one dish. This is a better thread to ask questions.

>25cm Wall mount

The dish is 80cm in diameter. Thus 40cm in radius approx. If you need to mount your dish at an angle then a 25cm wall mount may not move the dish out from the wall enough. When you turn the dish to point south it may bang off the wall.

>Inverto Twin KA Band HD Ready LNB Saorsat Compatible
This should be fine

>4 Fixing bolts and plugs
This should be fine but proper rawlbolts would be better.

>GT DiSEqC 2.0 2x1 switch
This is fine for one receiver with single tuner.

>Golden Media Universal Single LNB 0.1 db FULL HD 3D Ready
This is worth about 5 euro. Fine for single receiver, but I would recommend a quad LNB for later upgrading.

>Triax TD Multiblock LNB Holder for 4 LNB
This should be fine

>20m RG6 Coax Cable
Depends on distance. You will lose 4m with connections to switch and LNB's

>10 f-connectors
Ok

You also need a HD sat box. If you can wait then better boxes will come on the market shortly. Also setting up two LNBs without a meter will be difficult for hobbiest. If you are unable to install yourself you may get better value buying through an installer

>78cm TRIAX TD Satellite Dish

As I have linked to, dish size depends on where you live. For Saorsat the info we have are dark green and light green areas need a different dish size. For 28.2 dishes also need to be bigger in south west. So it depends. Also read my link to picking up Saorsat and 28.2 on one dish. This is a better thread to ask questions.

I live near Castlebar, so this dish should do

>25cm Wall mount

The dish is 80cm in diameter. Thus 40cm in radius approx. If you need to mount your dish at an angle then a 25cm wall mount may not move the dish out from the wall enough. When you turn the dish to point south it may bang off the wall.

The back of my house faces south, so i'm ok

>Inverto Twin KA Band HD Ready LNB Saorsat Compatible
This should be fine

Thanks

>4 Fixing bolts and plugs
This should be fine but proper rawlbolts would be better.

Will buy better bolts

>GT DiSEqC 2.0 2x1 switch
This is fine for one receiver with single tuner.

Will need more of these

>Golden Media Universal Single LNB 0.1 db FULL HD 3D Ready
This is worth about 5 euro. Fine for single receiver, but I would recommend a quad LNB for later upgrading.

I have a quad on my motor dish, so it will be a straight swap between them

>Triax TD Multiblock LNB Holder for 4 LNB
This should be fine

Thanks

>20m RG6 Coax Cable
Depends on distance. You will lose 4m with connections to switch and LNB's

Going to my attic for connecting, if I need more I'll buy more

>10 f-connectors
Ok

Thanks

You also need a HD sat box. If you can wait then better boxes will come on the market shortly. Also setting up two LNBs without a meter will be difficult for hobbiest. If you are unable to install yourself you may get better value buying through an installer

I have a vu+ duo, with a quad sky dish and a 1.1m motor dish. I will be replacing the sky dish with the Triax. I installed a motor by myself and found the meter a waste of time. I have a sundtek usb for terrestrial but it crashes the box, so I want go for saorsat. It's ordered now, so weekend I'll have some fun setting it up

Thanks for the detailed explanation zg3409, you're a gent.

bigVee wrote: »

I understand RTE may also be available from Divis after changeover,

Not Divis.

NI Mini-Mux Sites
1. Brougher Mountain (1kW ERP)
2. Black Mountain (Max 2kW ERP – min 1kW ERP); and
3. Carnmoney Hill (16W ERP).

It's probable that TG4 will join Saorsat, but unlikely TV3 &3E.

I'd wait for:
a) Ver 2.x of the Saorsat FAQ
b) RTE/Saorview official announcement.

I get the impression RTE don't want the general public to use Saorsat unless there is absolutely no alternative. I could be wrong.

once we get tg4 on saorsat we are flying, i dont watch 3 or 3e unless its a last resort ie the odd gaa game not on elsewhere.

i think pic quality in saorsat is better but sound is better on saorview.

gbc

warlikedave wrote: »

Is there much of a difference in pcture and audio quality between saorsat and saorview? Are we able to fully compare as of yet may i ask?

I can't see why it would not be identical. Cost more to make them different.

Tony wrote: »

Guess they do not have proof readers , at least one spelling mistake on there.

"7.3 How Big Dose My Dish Have To Be?"

givecredit wrote: »

Also mixing up their Saorview and Saorsats...

4. WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF SAORVIEW FOR ME?

4.1 What Are The Benefits Of SAORSAT For Me?
4.2 What Services Are On SAORSAT?
4.3 When Will There Be More Services Added To SAORSAT?

They may not have proof readers but they do read the posts here, Rev 1.1 of the Saorsat FAQ up on Mon, the above mistakes corrected - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-Mar-2012-Rev-1.1.pdf

Eutelsat Press Release

PR/16/12

RTÉ Ireland chooses Eutelsat’s KA-SAT for its ‘SAORSAT’ free to air digital service

The SAORSAT FTA service uses the KA-SAT Irish beam
Dublin, Paris, 13 March 2012 – Ireland’s national broadcaster, RTÉ, has chosen Eutelsat’s KA-SAT for its unique satellite based approach to ensure that all homes in the Irish Republic will be able to benefit from free digital reception of the RTÉ public service television and radio channels.

In March of this year, and to complement its SAORVIEW terrestrial service, RTÉ is switching on a new digital satellite service which will provide service cover to the 1 to 2 percent of households which are beyond range of terrestrial DTT reception.

Working closely with Eutelsat, RTÉNL has selected the service area of KA-SAT which is dedicated exclusively to the island of Ireland. The service will broadcast RTÉ’s five television channels RTÉ One, RTÉ Two HD, RTÉ News Now, RTÉ junior and RTÉ One +1 and ten radio stations. Eutelsat and RTÉNL have ensured that should any other broadcaster wish carriage provision, additional capacity on SAORSAT will be available for this future expansion.

For RTÉ, the combined offering of SAORVIEW and SAORSAT is the only effective solution for achieving one hundred percent national coverage of the RTÉ free-to-air public television and radio services; additionally the KA-SAT solution carries the benefit of providing full national back-up cover in the event of an emergency or a catastrophic failure of the terrestrial network.

To receive SAORSAT viewers will need a satellite dish equipped with a Ka-band LNB and a DVB-S2 set top box. The one-off cost should be within the region of €200 with equipment available from the majority of Irish retail outlets.

Des Mac Giolla an Chloig, Ceannaire Digiteach (Head of Digital) RTÉNL, said: “The extremely close co-operation between Eutelsat and RTÉNL during the KA-SAT project enabled the teams to tailor a bespoke engineering solution, which presents RTÉ with a unique opportunity to extend the cover of its public service channels to all of the population on a free to air basis for the first time.”

Michel de Rosen, CEO of Eutelsat, responded: “The integration by RTÉNL of the KA-SAT platform into its digital broadcast network is further evidence of how our new satellite is contributing to Europe’s digital infrastructure. We are delighted that KA-SAT’s service area and performance ticks all the boxes for RTÉNL and RTÉ, enabling the transmission authority and the broadcaster to put in place an efficient solution for ensuring nationwide access to free to air Irish digital.”

About Eutelsat Communications
Eutelsat Communications (Euronext Paris: ETL, ISIN code: FR0010221234) is the holding company of Eutelsat S.A.. With capacity commercialised on 28 satellites that provide coverage over the entire European continent, as well as the Middle East, Africa, India and significant parts of Asia and the Americas, Eutelsat is one of the world's three leading satellite operators in terms of revenues. As of 31 December 2011, Eutelsat’s satellites were broadcasting more than 4,150 television channels. More than 1,100 channels are broadcast via its HOT BIRD video neighbourhood at 13 degrees East alone which serves over 120 million cable and satellite homes in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. The Group’s satellites also serve a wide range of fixed and mobile telecommunications services, TV contribution markets, corporate networks, and broadband markets for Internet Service Providers and for transport, maritime and in-flight markets. Eutelsat's broadband subsidiary, Skylogic, markets and operates access to high speed internet services through teleports in France and Italy that serve enterprises, local communities, government agencies and aid organisations in Europe, Africa, Asia and the Americas. Headquartered in Paris, Eutelsat and its subsidiaries employ just over 700 commercial, technical and operational professionals from 30 countries.

www.eutelsat.com

For further information

Press

Vanessa O’Connor
Tel. : + 33 1 53 98 37 91
voconnor@eutelsat.fr

Frédérique Gautier
Tel. : + 33 1 53 98 37 91
fgautier@eutelsat.fr

Investors and analysts

Lisa Finas
Tel. : +33 1 53 98 35 30
investors@eutelsat-communications.com

Léonard Wapler
Tel. : +33 1 53 98 31 07
investors@eutelsat-communications

http://www.eutelsat.com/news/compress/en/2012/html/PR%201612%20Saorsat/PR%201612%20Saorsat.html

Some news reports on Saorsat today

http://www.rapidtvnews.com/index.php/2012031320540/eutelsats-ka-sat-to-boost-saorsat-free-to-air-service-in-ireland.html
http://www.telecompaper.com/news/eutelsat-supports-launch-of-rte-saorsat-digital-tv-service
http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2012/03/13/rte-opts-for-eutelsat-solution/
http://www.digitaltveurope.net/21947/rte-to-use-ka-sat-for-new-saorsat-platform/