Allowing Test Drives when selling

Merch · 02-03-2012 4:04pm

CiniO wrote: »

What I meant is just if car is registered in the country once (when it's new or imported secondhand), receives a registration number, and since then it's regsitered at all times, until it's scrapped or exported. That's it.
So generally speaking every car must have at least third party insurance at all times.
And yes - it is cheap.
Depends on engine size, owners age and NCB, usually between €60 and €250 per annum.

When I said I was fussy[/B], I meant that I need to go through a good few cars to see and check, before I could decide to buy that one which was the best, in oppose to people who just go, take a quick look at car and buy it.

Apologies, I'm a bit confused, you seem to say it happens when the car is registered first (you say, thats it), AND you also say it is annually (at maybe 60 to 250 euros).

So it is an annual payment?

CiniO · 02-03-2012 4:09pm

Merch wrote: »

Apologies, I'm a bit confused, you seem to say it happens when the car is registered first (you say, thats it),

AND you also say it is annually (at maybe 60 to 250 euros).
So it is an annual payment?

No no...
From the moment car becomes registered first time in the country (aquires registration number) owner must make sure it is insured until the vehicle is sccraped or exported.
Insurance is the same like in Ireland provided by insurance company in a form of annual policies, which cost 60 to 250.
Hope that's understandable now.

Speaking in other words, if you own a car, you must have it insured at all times.
There is no such thing, that you decide not to use a car, keep it at your driveway and don't pay insurance. No such thing. You have to pay insurance no matter if you intend to drive it or not.

Merch · 02-03-2012 4:16pm

CiniO wrote: »

I thoght "third party extension" was just a different name of "driving other cars extension".
Whatever it's called it's still the same.

Beside, we are just chatting here on the subject or around.
That's what the forum is for, really.

I agree, anyone would be foolish to take advice here and apply it without confirming it to be accurate, its a bit of informal sidetracking.

CiniO wrote: »

No no...
From the moment car becomes registered first time in the country (aquires registration number) owner must make sure it is insured.
Insurance is the same like in Ireland provided by insurance company in a form of annual policies, which cost 60 to 250.
Hope that's understandable now.

I understand now, same as Ireland really.

Anyway, from the OPs perspective, I'd be checking to see someone IS actually covered and licenced to drive the vehicle they are selling, even though a lot of people seem to have a very lax understanding/view of insurance on test drives, certainly I would never allow someone to drive a car on their own if I was selling it, to ensure they didnt do anything crazy or disappear. I'd want to make sure they and I were covered as much as is reasonably possible, some people seem not to mind at all.

Whyner · 02-03-2012 4:22pm

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Friend of mine ended up in court a few years ago for letting a lad drive his car, they guy told him he had insurance and even showed a policy. Anyway he walked out of court a grand out of pocket because of it and got points or an endorsment on his licence, cant remember which but his insurance went up after it too

I would be worried about this :eek:

Whyner · 02-03-2012 4:25pm

Here's another thing, there's is no tax on the car, make a difference?

Merch · 02-03-2012 4:30pm

Whyner wrote: »

I would be worried about this :eek:

Why? that was a few years ago, not even that poster? do you mean something else?

Whyner wrote: »

Here's another thing, there's is no tax on the car, make a difference?

I'm beginning to wonder about this thread now, right, first off, No Tax, then you cannot be on the road (shouldn't be, and shouldn't need to ask really, I mean if you really don't know, by all means, ask, but people should know that).
Also, I dont mean to be a pedant but,
"There's" means "there is" adding an "is" afterwards is redundant

sorry, its like reading, "there is is".

So back to the first quote, why should he be worried??? I'm lost on that one?

Whyner · 02-03-2012 4:38pm

Merch wrote: »

Why? that was a few years ago, not even that poster? do you mean something else?

I'm beginning to wonder about this thread now,
right, first off, No Tax, then you cannot be on the road (shouldn't be, and shouldn't need to ask really).
Also, I dont mean to be a pedant but,
"There's" means "there is" adding an "is" afterwards is redundant sorry, its like reading, "there is is".

So back to the first quote, why should he be worried??? I'm lost on that one?

Lighten up. I added 's by mistake, well spotted, go log a bug

The car is off the road since end of Jan when the tax expired. Why would I renew it when I have a new car?

I'm not sure I understood the story of the friend above but getting done for allowing someone to drive your car is not appealing to me.

"I'm beginning to wonder about this thread now, " What on earth does this mean?

Johntegr · 02-03-2012 4:39pm

mathepac wrote: »

Incorrect. The potential buyer needs a "Driving Other Cars" extension on his policy.
Incorrect. The potential buyer needs a "Driving Other Cars" extension on his policy.

That's just a sub heading of the policy. On my certificate of insurance there's just that.

The heading says "Driving other cars"

It then says that "All named drivers on this policy can drive a vehicle under 3rd party cover ONLY provided that such vehicle is not owned by the proposer, does not exceed the value of €50,000,is not modified, is road worthy, has valid tax and is not owned by a member of the trade."

Whyner wrote: »

Here's another thing, there's is no tax on the car, make a difference?

No tax = It shouldn't be on the road.

CiniO · 02-03-2012 4:42pm

Merch wrote: »

I understand now, same as Ireland really.

After all that, you completely missed my point.
The point was - that it's significently different that Ireland.
In Ireland you have to do really much to make sure no one is driving uninsured. If you want your friend to drive for you as your are tires, you have add him to your insurance policy which might be difficult especially on weekends or evening. If you are selling a car there is a problem as well.
If you forgot to inform your insurance company about any fact about you or car, you might not be insured. Generally speaking, you have to really do a lot to make sure that everyone and everytime is insured while driving your car.
People very often don't care, f.e. with test-drives like described in this thread, and therefore there is quite a lot of uninsured drivers on Irish roads.

In Poland it's the insurance legislation which ensures everyone is covered, and therefore cases of someone driving uninsured nearly doesn't happen.

That's the difference.

Whyner · 02-03-2012 4:46pm

CiniO wrote: »

After all that, you completely missed my point.
The point was - that it's significently different that Ireland.
In Ireland you have to do really much to make sure no one is driving uninsured. If you want your friend to drive for you as your are tires, you have add him to your insurance policy which might be difficult especially on weekends or evening. If you are selling a car there is a problem as well.
If you forgot to inform your insurance company about any fact about you or car, you might not be insured. Generally speaking, you have to really do a lot to make sure that everyone and everytime is insured while driving your car.
People very often don't care, f.e. with test-drives like described in this thread, and therefore there is quite a lot of uninsured drivers on Irish roads.

In Poland it's the insurance legislation which ensures everyone is covered, and therefore cases of someone driving uninsured nearly doesn't happen.

That's the difference.

Exactly, it's a pain in the hoop. We're not great with cars and laws over here

Jimmy Bottlehead · 02-03-2012 4:48pm

I still find it insane that the seller let me test drive his Honda S2000 with him not being in the car with me.
If I was selling her in the morning, there's no chance I'd let a stranger head off in my car without me here.

Sound chap though

Anan1 · 02-03-2012 4:51pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I still find it insane that the seller let me test drive his Honda S2000 with him not being in the car with me.
If I was selling her in the morning, there's no chance I'd let a stranger head off in my car without me here.

Sound chap though

And you bought the car. I've done it myself, for the right potential buyer.:)

Whyner · 02-03-2012 4:51pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I still find it insane that the seller let me test drive his Honda S2000 with him not being in the car with me.
If I was selling her in the morning, there's no chance I'd let a stranger head off in my car without me here.

Sound chap though

Why did he not get in the car with you?

Merch · 02-03-2012 5:04pm

Whyner wrote: »

Lighten up. I added 's by mistake, well spotted, go log a bug

The car is off the road since end of Jan when the tax expired. Why would I renew it when I have a new car?

I'm not sure I understood the story of the friend above but getting done for allowing someone to drive your car is not appealing to me.

"I'm beginning to wonder about this thread now, " What on earth does this mean?

Well, I did apologise in advance

, we seem to have a communication difficulty, I have no idea what log a bug means now?

I meant, Im beginning to wonder because, I wasn't sure if you or the thread was serious at all, honestly thats what i thought when you ask at the start about insurance then only mention way after about tax.
If you dont have one or the other then you cant be on the road with that car.
Well and good if you aren't aware, then you have to ask, better to than not, but really drivers should be aware they need both.

For you own sake, ensure you and your car is covered somehow when out on the road with test drivers as if they knock someone down or hit a car, you likely may be screwed and it wont be worth it. If you have no tax they or you may be in trouble.
Re the renew tax, why you would renew it is so it can be on the road, just cos you have a new car doesnt mean this one shouldnt be taxed also, its not great but its an added selling point plus test drivers may not appreciate you having no tax and them driving it.

Whyner · 02-03-2012 5:11pm

Ok, fair enough, some good points

I wouldn't tax it because it's a big engine and I wasn't sure I was going to be able to shift it, why waste more money.

I know where I stand now. This thread clearly shows that it's a grey area

Thanks for all replies

creedp · 02-03-2012 5:29pm

[QUOTEIn Ireland you have to do really much to make sure no one is driving uninsured. If you want your friend to drive for you as your are tires, you have add him to your insurance policy which might be difficult especially on weekends or evening. If you are selling a car there is a problem as well.[/QUOTE]

I presume you mean that if you want comprehensive cover you need to add the driver to your policy. Most people I know have policies which automatically cover any driver over 25 with a full licence on TP basis. I have driven many other people's cars on this basis. Obviously there is an element of risk in that if I crash the car the owner/I is liable for the damage to the car but at least all third part damage is covered. As for the tax situation, how many cars are being driven around this country at present with no tax .. are these people also uninsured? If so the Gardai would want to be more proactive on the matter!

coylemj · 02-03-2012 5:39pm

We've been over this urban myth so many times it's just become tiresome.

If someone has an insurance policy which allows them to drive 'other cars', it is NOT a condition that the car itself be the primary vehicle on a separate insurance policy i.e. that the car has it's own policy.

I can drive any other car with the permission of the owner which is (1) not owned by me and (2) not hired by me. Those are the only conditions imposed by Axa and having searched several insurance company policy documents, I can assure all and sundry that the same applies to all other Irish insurers.

Most insurance companies say that if you are driving another car and have an accident, you are obliged to claim under the other person's policy but that only applies IF there is such a policy, otherwise your policy will pay out.

OP, if someone turns up with an insurance cert. which says he can drive other cars, he is covered for 3rd party to drive your car. What happens if he wraps your car around a lamp post through his fault is another matter....

CiniO · 02-03-2012 6:38pm

creedp wrote: »

I presume you mean that if you want comprehensive cover you need to add the driver to your policy. Most people I know have policies which automatically cover any driver over 25 with a full licence on TP basis. I have driven many other people's cars on this basis.

What you are describing, is a open driving policy, and to be honest, I don't know a single person which would have one.
Also by saying - "driver over 25" you they leave space for anyone younger who would not be covered.

As for the tax situation, how many cars are being driven around this country at present with no tax .. are these people also uninsured? If so the Gardai would want to be more proactive on the matter!

Why would they be uninsured?
Tax has nothing to do with insurance.

Anan1 · 02-03-2012 6:49pm

CiniO wrote: »

What you are describing, is a open driving policy, and to be honest, I don't know a single person which would have one.
Also by saying - "driver over 25" you they leave space for anyone younger who would not be covered.

Open driving is when my policy covers you to drive my car. Creedp is talking about a driving other cars extension, whereby my insurance covers me (TP only) to drive your car.

CrowdedHouse · 02-03-2012 7:02pm

....and here's an interesting thing about Open Driving, my OH has it 'cos she works for an insurance company and gets it very cheap.

According to her if I was driving her car and had an accident the open driving would cover her damages but the third party claim would be against mine if I have 'driving other cars' cover

CiniO · 02-03-2012 7:07pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Open driving is when my policy covers you to drive my car. Creedp is talking about a driving other cars extension, whereby my insurance covers me (TP only) to drive your car.

I understood he meant open driving:

Most people I know have policies which automatically cover any driver over 25 with a full licence on TP basis

Anyway, not everyone has a policy with "driving other cars extension" either.

I remember well, few years ago my friends from Poland gave me a visit here in Mayo.
We drove down in my car to Kerry to climb Carrauntoohil and I got a little leg injury. I was OK, but it was very inconvenient for me to drive, especially it's a good bit of distance from Kerry to Mayo.
However we didn't have a choice, as I was the only one insured on my car, and my insurance company helpline was closed at that time as it was weekend, so I couldn't add any of my friends to my policy, even though they would be happy to drive.
Just nuts.

CiniO · 02-03-2012 7:10pm

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

....and here's an interesting thing about Open Driving, my OH has it 'cos she works for an insurance company and gets it very cheap.

According to her if I was driving her car and had an accident the open driving would cover her damages but the third party claim would be against mine if I have 'driving other cars' cover

That's right.
The same stands in my policy, and it's not limited to open driving.
I have my wife as a named driver on my policy, but if she would crash in my car, it would be my policy to cover damage to my car, but any third party claim would be paid from her policy, as she had "driving other cars" extensions.

slimjimmc · 02-03-2012 7:11pm

Whyner wrote: »

Ok, fair enough, some good points

I wouldn't tax it because it's a big engine and I wasn't sure I was going to be able to shift it, why waste more money.

I know where I stand now. This thread clearly shows that it's a grey area

Thanks for all replies

I wouldn't consider it grey, it's very black and white imo. No licence, motor tax or insurance and the car stays off the road. If the other driver can't produce proof they have a valid insurance policy which covers them to drive your class vehicle then don't take the risk of you getting a conviction.
If your tax is out by more than 2 months you also risk having the car seized.

PS even if he did produce an insurance cert I'd ring the insurance company to verify the policy is valid. I've seen enough episodes of Roads Wars to know that some people intentionally stop making payments but keep presenting the cert. even though the policy has been cancelled.

Vertakill · 02-03-2012 7:11pm

CiniO wrote: »

I thoght "third party extension" was just a different name of "driving other cars extension".
Whatever it's called it's still the same.

Beside, we are just chatting here on the subject or around.
That's what the forum is for, really.

Yes, it is. Matthepac just went off on a rant accusing people of misinformation whilst doing it himself.

From what I've gathered over the years, 'third party extension' was enabled when you want to drive a car that's completely inactive (ie. no tax, no insurance) on your own policy and not registered in your name. This would be only third party insurance (it's not fire/theft coz the car would only be covered while you were driving it). ie. A car that's been parked up, possibly for sale for a long time etc.

'Driving other cars' was a option on policies which allows you to drive a car that's got tax, valid insurance but is not registered in your name. ie. Your friends car where you want to drive coz he's tired or whatever.

Vertakill · 02-03-2012 7:16pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I still find it insane that the seller let me test drive his Honda S2000 with him not being in the car with me.
If I was selling her in the morning, there's no chance I'd let a stranger head off in my car without me here.

Sound chap though

When I bought my car, my brother and myself went to view it and he let us test drive it on our own. It was an E46 M3 - I left him with the keys to my 350Z at the time.

I thought it was a really trusting thing to do and made it easier to discuss things about the car between my brother and I regarding the car coz we didn't have yer man in with us. I ended up buying it obviously.

Then when it came to selling my 350Z, I let a couple (the wife was heavily pregnant!) test drive it on their own. 2 seater car always threw up this kind of dilemma to be fair. They left me the keys to their ****box Peugeot something or other. They bought the Z in the end.

Funnily, while they were off in the car, I unlocked their car and peaked in the boot and into the car to make sure nobody was hiding in there waiting to jump into the drivers seat and drive off with both cars (goddamn scarey stories from boards down the years!:)). She had left her handbag etc so I felt safe enough.
I wouldn't do this for everyone though - they just seemed genuine at the time.

Anan1 · 02-03-2012 7:19pm

CiniO wrote: »

That's right.
The same stands in my policy, and it's not limited to open driving.
I have my wife as a named driver on my policy, but if she would crash in my car, it would be my policy to cover damage to my car, but any third party claim would be paid from her policy, as she had "driving other cars" extensions.

AFAIK (and i'm not 100% sure of this), if your wife had an at-fault accident the entire claim would be against your policy. I think a condition of the driving other cars extension is that the driver is not insured on any other policy. Because she's a named driver, therefore, her own insurance would not apply.

Anan1 · 02-03-2012 7:20pm

Vertakill wrote: »

I wouldn't do this for everyone though - they just seemed genuine at the time.

+1, it's all about judgement.

Johntegr · 02-03-2012 7:21pm

RE: The open drive. Some people are confusing this with their own 3rd party cover which will cover damages they cause in an accident to 3rd parties and then the policy holders insurance covers their car IF they have fully comp insurance.

For open drive with some insurance companies you merely have to be over 25 and have a driving license.

e.g. my father didn't have a car for a while after over 20 years of driving, and I did, and my insurance had open drive, him being over 25 and still having his full license, could drive my car under the cover that's on it. He doesn't need an insurance policy to avail of my open drive.

CiniO · 02-03-2012 7:25pm

Anan1 wrote: »

AFAIK (and i'm not 100% sure of this), if your wife had an at-fault accident the entire claim would be against your policy. I think a condition of the driving other cars extension is that the driver is not insured on any other policy.

No limitation like this is stated in her policy

Because she's a named driver, therefore, her own insurance would not apply.

It would.
And my policy states:

Section 1 (third party cover)
(...)
This section of your policy does not cover:
(...)
3. any person other than you, if such person is insured under another motor insurance policy.

So she is not covered third party under my policy, as she is insured under her policy to drive other cars.

mathepac · 02-03-2012 8:18pm

Vertakill wrote: »

Yes, it is. Matthepac just went off on a rant accusing people of misinformation whilst doing it himself.

From what I've gathered over the years, 'third party extension' was enabled when you want to drive a car that's completely inactive (ie. no tax, no insurance) on your own policy and not registered in your name. This would be only third party insurance (it's not fire/theft coz the car would only be covered while you were driving it). ie. A car that's been parked up, possibly for sale for a long time etc.

'Driving other cars' was a option on policies which allows you to drive a car that's got tax, valid insurance but is not registered in your name. ie. Your friends car where you want to drive coz he's tired or whatever.

Complete and utter rubbish, all of it.

Allowing Test Drives when selling

Comments